And I do mean everything (sort of).
Our team uses:
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Champion
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny
Tome of Battle (Book of 9 Swords)
Miniatures Handbook
PHB & PHB2
DMG & DMG2
MM1 & Slayers Guide Compendium
Cityscape
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Dragon Compendium
O A, FR, Blackmoor, KoK, & Eberron CS
Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide
Arms & Equipment Guide
Unearthed Arcana
(oh, and the Rules Compendium. But thats for me =D)
Plus other books from Legends & Lairs, Friends & Foes, Ultimate Guides, and the Complete Guides.
Everything is available for use in the game as long as we have the real book for it (and I know I'm forgetting a few books from our library).
When I DM, I allow anything published by WotC or Paizo.
When I DM, I allow anything published by WotC or Paizo.
We've allowed a broad mix of companies. Everybody from AEG (forgot to list those books) to Kenzer&Co. to Troll Lord Games and all in between.
And (of course) WotC. :p
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I allow just about anything (I have just about everything) except the Tome of Battle (Book of 9 Swords) and certain facets here and there (like reserve feats and skill tricks). But I also have to approve anything my guys come up with first (just to be forewarned).
Beyond Paizo and WotC, I have a slew of PDFs from some great sources (a lot of them are available here). I strongly recomend Blackdirge
When we gamed, we used anything published by WoTC.
As ever,
ACE
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Anything is open for discussion, even some things published by parties other than Paizo or WotC. There are a couple of things I warn players away from (psionics, mostly), and things that are blatantly not applicable to Greyhawk, but my players can check with me on anything. And if there is a logical way utilizing a class, feat, or feature and it doesn't seem overpowered, I let them go for it.
I use a lot of books (but not all of those because I do not own all of those). I have had mainly bad experiences with mongoose books and WotC books for PrC and "Base Classes" that do not match the feel of my game or seem very unbalanced when compared to everyone else's characters.
I find WotC needs to be watched less then (some) 3rd party books but that they are not all great (or even good sometimes).
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We just started using everything. Until a few weeks ago all of the DMs we played with were VERY xenophobic about using anything other than core rulebooks. I think it adds a certain flavor to play, depending on what you allow. Personally, I wouldn't allow EVERYTHING, but I would look through and pick and choose what I want that fits the campaign. Having everything available in every campaign would get stale after a little while. I want things to feel new every time, and there's enough material for that to happen if you use it moderately.
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I'll allow just about anything the PCs can get their grubby little hands on. However, I'll limit the number used per character. I had a major twinker who created a character that completely broke the campaign, made DMing no fun at all while he destroyed everything I could have thrown at him.
So its anything goes, but one supplement per character for my campaigns.
So its anything goes, but one supplement per character for my campaigns.
It seems like a good internal balance if you say "Use any additional supplement book you want. But remember, I said book not books."
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I remember when I would want to try anything new.
Me: So, uh... I was looking through and I found a ninja class...
DM: Ninja? As a prestige class?
Me: No, a base class
DM: That's interesting...
Me: I was wondering if I could play as one
DM: No, were playing all base classes. If I let you play that class I would have to open up every book and I don't want to do that much reading.
Me: Could I at least make a wizard with some new spells?
DM: No, I don't know if they would unbalance the game.
Me: Why don't you check them out
DM; That's too much reading, and I would have to let everyone pick stuff from that book if I let you.
EDIT: This has caused me to automatically assume that my ideas are going to be shot down by our DM, no matter who it is (most of them act this way). Only when I spoke of making a campaign with everything did people start to open their eyes to all of the new stuff.
EDIT: EDIT: Personal favorite = Arms and Equipment Guide
I'm mostly opening the door because I'm tired of negotiating with the players about what'll be allowed and what won't be. I'm not worried about them getting too powerful and wrecking the game because if that is what they want to do then great.
Basically, I'm just going to be rolling for the monsters and adjudicating the rules. We're already to level 13 so there isn't much I had planned past this point anyway.
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Me: So, uh... I was looking through and I found a ninja class...
DM: Ninja? As a prestige class?
Me: No, a base class
DM: That's interesting...
Me: I was wondering if I could play as one
DM: No, were playing all base classes. If I let you play that class I would have to open up every book and I don't want to do that much reading.
Me: Could I at least make a wizard with some new spells?
DM: No, I don't know if they would unbalance the game.
Me: Why don't you check them out
DM; That's too much reading, and I would have to let everyone pick stuff from that book if I let you.
I allow any book... if you use WOTC or Paizo products only this incurs no penalties (there are exceptions). But if you use another publisher and it causes you to died more often or more quickly, Don't expect DM fiat to save you (This is also true for low level warlocks). People using the core 3 books only get a little extra DM fiat here and there though. As long as I warn them of this during character creation. There are exceotions to every rule though... this one is when the person in question takes a 3d party feat/spell for a purely RP purpose and its a short read that I can skim to check for balance issues qucikly
I remember when I would want to try anything new.
Me: So, uh... I was looking through and I found a ninja class...
DM: Ninja? As a prestige class?
Me: No, a base class
DM: That's interesting...
Me: I was wondering if I could play as one
DM: No, were playing all base classes. If I let you play that class I would have to open up every book and I don't want to do that much reading.
Me: Could I at least make a wizard with some new spells?
DM: No, I don't know if they would unbalance the game.
Me: Why don't you check them out
DM; That's too much reading, and I would have to let everyone pick stuff from that book if I let you.EDIT: This has caused me to automatically assume that my ideas are going to be shot down by our DM, no matter who it is (most of them act this way). Only when I spoke of making a campaign with everything did people start to open their eyes to all of the new stuff.
EDIT: EDIT: Personal favorite = Arms and Equipment Guide
Bad situation there (Bad DM reasoning). I don't restrict a class or spell without first reading it and considering it. I also provide an explanation why (besides "because").
I suddenly feel like a politician. "Unlike my opponent I care about X." "Though I want tough laws the must be fair laws too."
BTW Arms and Equipment Guide is the most frequently used non core book at my table. It rocks!
we use a limited list really as use sight unseen. but i allow about anything if the player can come up with a way it fits into my game if there hard pressed and i can think of a way i allow it but i like to make em think u wanna play a ninja sure show me how they work in my setting , wanna play a hexblade show me how they work. i always go over what they want to use and if i dont like it or think its to unbalanced{im not big on balance really} then im happy to work with the player to make it something that does work. end the end i allow almost anything..besides u can always nix it later if u have to the trick is nixing something without the player getting upset its almost an artform lol so i recall doing it maybe twice u can always challange a player with enuff thought so let em have fun its the point of the game anyhow
I'd like to, but all I hear when I do is "Oh, another broken splat book again?"... That crap gets on my nerves...
I definitely do use everything, as that's just asking for trouble. I have allowed just about anything in the past, and wasn't happy with the results. These days I run pretty much SRD only games, but I'm willing to consider any feat from any source. I will at least look at spells from various sources, but be prepared for me to reject the spell (though some that I reject may wind up in a bad guy's spell book to be found later).
Allowing everything seems like asking for trouble to me. Especially for Pathfinder APs, as they are designed SRD/OGL only.
Currently my group is allowed any source, with no restrictions. Some things get disallowed or houseruled into unbrokenness on certain occasions, but most everything is allowed. I enjoy having lots of choices, so I allow my players free reign.
That said, however, I've decided to go a different route for my next campaign (going to be running CoCT) and restrict the class and spell selection to mainly the PHB, if only to try it out and see how a more limited campaign runs. Feats will be allowed from anywhere, though.
I definitely do use everything,
Huh. That should read "do NOT use everything."
Bad situation there (Bad DM reasoning). I don't restrict a class or spell without first reading it and considering it. I also provide an explanation why (besides "because").
I disagree. If the DM wants to be clear about which books will or will not be allowed in her campaign thats her right. Even if the DM says Core only.
In fact I think the DM has very clear and succinct reasoning here. Your not allowed to cherry pick some abilities becuase then everyone would have to be allowed to do that and the DM would have to spend time reviewing it and potentially dealing with the fall out of allowing some players to have some stuff while saying no to other players request.
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And I do mean everything (sort of).
Our team uses:
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Champion
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny
Tome of Battle (Book of 9 Swords)
Miniatures Handbook
PHB & PHB2
DMG & DMG2
MM1 & Slayers Guide Compendium
Cityscape
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Dragon Compendium
O A, FR, Blackmoor, KoK, & Eberron CS
Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide
Arms & Equipment Guide
Unearthed Arcana
(oh, and the Rules Compendium. But thats for me =D)
Plus other books from Legends & Lairs, Friends & Foes, Ultimate Guides, and the Complete Guides.Everything is available for use in the game as long as we have the real book for it (and I know I'm forgetting a few books from our library).
Everything... as long the "source" book or pdf is on the premises.
Thoth-Amon
The list in the first post looks awful familiar...
We use any non-campaign specific (read no Eberron or Forgotten Realms) WotC books and also the Paizo stuff. Incarnum has been ignored by mutual consent, but otherwise you're free to try it. Some stuff has had to be houseruled, like when you can recharge your abilities for Book of 9 Swords based characters (i.e. not in combat), but we haven't really had a problem with characters getting too powerful. Of course our group tends to get so focused on the roleplaying we sometimes have to be encouraged to make characters that are survivable. :)
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I do. Here's my "everything". Note: I have many ranks in Locate Bargain and can cast "Employee Discount-30%" at will and "Employee Discount-40%" for two weeks a year. I have paid full price for almost nothing on this list, and some of these books I've gotten for less than $10. What follows is not my entire collection (that's a much longer list) but it's the list of material that I'll draw on and (within reason) allow my players to do the same with. As far as I'm concerned, crunch is crunch. I pull spells, feats, races, classes, and prestige classes out of their native settings, file the serial numbers off and drop them into my home brew world with little or no ceremony all the time. And yeah, my setting can accommodate all of this, though I use little tiny smatterings from books to make a better-unified whole at times. For instance, the bodyguard of a villain in my last campaign used Base Classes from the SRD, a prestige class & undead grafts from Libris Mortis, a gun from the Iron Kingdoms character guide, that fired bullets made of a special material from the Arms & Equipment Guide, with feats from Complete Warrior, and Equipment from Magic & Mayhem. And that was something like 3 years ago...
3.0 WotC
Song & Silence
Sword & Fist
Masters of the Wild
Defenders of the Faith
Arms & Equipment Guide
Manual of the Planes
Deities & Demigods
Ghostwalk
Savage Species
Book of Vile Darkness
Epic Level Handbook
Monster Manual II
Fiend Folio
Oriental Adventures
3.5 WotC
Player's Handbook 3.5
Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5
Monster Manual 3.5
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Planar Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Miniatures Handbook
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
Complete Psionic
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Champion
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny
Races of the Wild
Races of Eberron
Races of the Dragon
Dragon Magic
Book of Exalted Deeds
Frostburn
Sandstorm
Stormwrack
Cityscape
Dungeonscape
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Unearthed Arcana
Spell Compendium
Monster Manual III
Monster Manual IV
Monster Manual V
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss
Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
Drow of the Underdark
Tome of Battle: book of Nine Swords
Tome of Magic
Magic of Incarnum
Magic Item Compendium
Rules Compendium
Exemplars of Evil
Elder Evils
Weapons of Legacy
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
WotC Setting books
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Races of Faerun
Player's Guide to Faerun
Magic of Faerun
Unapproachable East
Faiths & Pantheons
Underdark
Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerun
Eberron Campaign Setting
Sharn: City of Towers
Faiths of Eberron
Magic of Eberron
Five Nations
The Forge of War
Paizo
Dragon Compendium
Monster Ecologies Collection
Pathfinder #1
Pathfinder #2
Pathfinder #3
Pathfinder #4
Pathfinder #5
Pathfinder #6
Malhavoc Press
Complete Book of Eldritch Might
Beyond Countless Doorways
Arcana Evolved
Book of Hallowed Might
Book of Hallowed Might II: Signs and Portents
Requiem for a God
When the Sky Falls
Cry Havoc
Anger of Angels
Chaositech
Book of Iron Might
Book of Roguish Luck
Hyperconscious
Year's Best d20: 2004
Ptolus: City by the Spire
Ptolus: Secrets of the Delver's Guild
Ptolus Player's Guide
Green Ronin
SpirosBlaak
Advanced Bestiary
Advanced Player's Manual
Advanced GM's guide
The Book of Fiends
The Assassin's Handbook
The Noble's Handbook
The Cavalier's Handbook
The Psychic's Handbook
The Witch's Handbook
The Shaman's Handbook
The Avatar's Handbook
The Unholy Warrior's Handbook
The Holy Warrior's Handbook
Book of the Righteous
Aasimar & Tiefling
Bow & Blade
Plot & Poison
Bastards & Bloodlines
Hammer & Helm
Wrath & Rage
Secret College of Necromancy
Advanced Race Codex: Dwarves
Advanced Race Codex: Gnomes
Advanced Race Codex: Half-Elves
Advanced Race Codex: Elves
Advanced Race Codex: Half-Orcs
Advanced Race Codes: Halflings
Medieval Player's Handbook
Eternal Rome
Mindshadows
Temple Quarter
Thieves' Quarter
Corwyl
Dezzavold
Testament
Privateer Press
Iron Kingdoms Character Guide
Liber Mechanika
Monsternomicon (3.5 version)
Monsternomicon II
Sword & Sorcery Studios
Mithril: City of the Golem
Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers
Advanced Player's Guide
Relics and Rituals: Excalibur
Warcraft the RPG
Magic & Mayhem
Manual of Monsters
Lands of Conflict
Fantasy Flight Games
Path of Faith
Path of Magic
Path of Shadow
Path of the Sword
Darkness & Dread
Monster's Handbook
Mythic Races
Cityworks
Sorcery & Steam
Mastercraft Anthology
Goodman Games
DragonMech
DragonMech: Mech Manual
DragonMech: Steam Warriors
Bad Axe Games
Heroes of High Favor: Half-Orcs
Heroes of High Favor: Elves
Heroes of High Favor: Dwarves
Heroes of High Favor: Halflings
Open Design
Kobold Quarterly #1
Kobold Quarterly #3
Necromancer Games
Tome of Horrors Revised (PDF)
Tome of Horrors II (PDF)
I've pretty much left it open to whatever. Granted I have to know what it is and feel its okay to use first. I vetoed tome of battle because I didnt have time to dedicate to fully understanding it before I wanted to start my recent campaign.
I have decided for the next one though and for any game, if someone wants to use something from a book I do not own they have to buy a copy for me to have before I will allow it. This may seem harsh but I feel like I spend enough on my own and if something is important enough then a player can pony up so that I can have the opportunity to use it too. *smirk*
My group uses everything we can find, and then some. Many times, our PCs will have a new feat or item that the player thought up and the group discussed and accepted.
Twink or no, I think that each player should be able to "cherry pick" his/her race, class, skills, abilites, feats, spells, weapons, items, etc... It's only logical for adventurer Billy to train how he wants to and equip himself with what he can afford. Or should he be forced to bargain shop for used gear and train against the same scare-crow the past 500 adventurers have used?
Sometimes it all balances out, othertimes not at all. Do you honestly expect perfect balance from a game where you roll a die?
-Kurocyn
...I have decided for the next one though and for any game, if someone wants to use something from a book I do not own they have to buy a copy for me to have before I will allow it. This may seem harsh but I feel like I spend enough on my own and if something is important enough then a player can pony up so that I can have the opportunity to use it too. *smirk*
They can't just bring their copy?
Forcing someone to "buy in" to your game just because you won't spend an extra 5 min reading up on what they want to use is pretty sad.
-Kurocyn
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I allow just about anything (I have just about everything) except the Tome of Battle (Book of 9 Swords) and certain facets here and there (like reserve feats and skill tricks). But I also have to approve anything my guys come up with first (just to be forewarned).
Beyond Paizo and WotC, I have a slew of PDFs from some great sources (a lot of them are available here). I strongly recomend Blackdirge
A slight side-note; I would like to thank you for posting a link to those PDFs. I have just gathered a collection of the Master at Arms PDFs and am loving every word.
Back on topic, I'm currently running a game in which I am having my players start out with the PHB, and we are adding sources as we go along. They are all pretty new to the game so it starts out simply enough, but I intend to allow almost everything, if not everything, before the campaign ends.
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Banning material is a DM's right, but you should have a reason for doing so (over-powered or wrong genre, etc.).
I hear a lot of "I won't use book X", but really the info should be judged on its own merit. There are spells in the Spell Compendium that I can't understand why they aren't core; there are also core spells in the PHB that are broken.
A slight side-note; I would like to thank you for posting a link to those PDFs. I have just gathered a collection of the Master at Arms PDFs and am loving every word.
Uh, yeah, I'd like to thank you for posting that link as well. =]
You know, when I run a game, I typically stick with just the core books (including the XPH) and anything I've written myself. Although, I will allow material from other sources on a case by case basis.
BD
...I have decided for the next one though and for any game, if someone wants to use something from a book I do not own they have to buy a copy for me to have before I will allow it. This may seem harsh but I feel like I spend enough on my own and if something is important enough then a player can pony up so that I can have the opportunity to use it too. *smirk*They can't just bring their copy?
Forcing someone to "buy in" to your game just because you won't spend an extra 5 min reading up on what they want to use is pretty sad.
-Kurocyn
For me it would not be about the money but about fair play. If the PCs have access to X so should the bad guys, and the other PCs for that matter.
I do not allow players to use stuff just becuase they have a specific book. I designate the legal books before hand and then make it clear which parts of which book are in play. Finally I make sure that we, as a group, have communal access to all the books in play.
Not only does this insure that both the players and the monsters have access to the same material but, maybe more importantly, it insures that all the players have equal access to all the available books. Its important to me that if player A has access to feat X so should player B.
I wan't implying that only the player could use the book, Mac Donald, just how lame it is to hear someone not allow a book they don't own unless someone goes and buys it for them.
I fully agree with you otherwise. Villians, monsters, NPCs; they all should (and do in my games) have access to all the books the PCs do. And everyone in my group always brings their books with them, so we all have access to each other's materials.
-Kurocyn
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And I do mean everything (sort of).
I pretty much allow for everything from WotC and/or Paizo. But I ahve the ability (option) to deny anything that I feel is unbalanced -- but I'm at least willing to look at it.
Other books are on a case by case basis. For me (as the DM) I do use monsters from pretty much any source I can get my hands on for ideas.
I allow any WotC stuff, but I reserve the right to preapprove anything that's not Core. I haven't disallowed anything yet...
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I allow my players to use any material from any book that I physically own (list is in the spoiler). Thankfully my players don't enjoy playing crazy powerful characters (ex. Divine Metamagic/Nightstick Clerics, infinite loop characters, et cetera) that walk through almost any encounter so I haven't had any balance issues as of yet (which I am thankful to my group for). As a rule I require every player to ask me before they use something non-core, however.
Arms & Equipment Guide
Book of Vile Darkness
Defenders of the Faith
Deities and Demigods
Epic Level Handbook
Fiend Folio
Manual of the Planes
Masters of the Wild
Monster Manual II
Oriental Adventures
Savage Species
Song and Silence
Stronghold Builder's Guide
Sword and Fist
Tome and Blood
3.5:
Book of Exalted Deeds
Cityscape
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Champion
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Psionic
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Dragon Magic
Drow of the Underdark
Dungeon Master's Guide
Dungeon Master's Guide (Leather)
Dungeonscape
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Fiendish Codex I
Fiendish Codex II
Frostburn
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Magic Item Compendium
Magic of Incarnum
Monster Manual
Monster Manual (Leather)
Monster Manual III
Monster Manual IV
Monster Manual V
Planar Handbook
Player's Handbook (Softcover)
Player's Handbook (Leather)
Player's Handbook II
Races of Destiny
Races of Stone
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Rules Compendium
Sandstorm
Spell Compendium
Stormwrack
Tome of Battle
Tome of Magic
Unearthed Arcana
Weapons of Legacy
Third-Party:
Advanced Bestiary
Advanced Gamemaster's Guide
Advanced Player's Manual
Creature Collection I
Creature Collection II
Creature Collection III
Dungeoncraft
Player's Guide to Clerics and Druids
Player's Guide to Fighters and Barbarians
Player's Guide to Monks and Paladins
Player's Guide to Rangers and Rogues
Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards, and Sorcerers
Relics and Rituals I
Relics and Rituals II
The Wurst of Grimtooth's Traps
Tome of Horror I
Tome of Horror II
Tome of Horror III
Campaign Settings:
Champions of Ruin (Forgotten Realms)
Champions of Valor (Forgotten Realms)
Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Dreadmire
Ghostwalk
Eberron Campaign Setting
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Player's Guide to Eberron
Player's Guide to Faerun
Scarred Lands Campaign Setting
Modules:
Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Expedition to the Demonweb Pits
Expedition to Undermountain
Saga of the Dragon Cult
- The Lost Vault of Tsathzar Rho
- Legacy of the Savage Kings
- The Sunless Garden
- Temple of the Dragon Cult
World's Largest Dungeon
You bought it, you can play it. The danger if you use something I don't have, if you forget how it works and you forget your book, then it doesn't work for that session.
Bad situation there (Bad DM reasoning). I don't restrict a class or spell without first reading it and considering it. I also provide an explanation why (besides "because").
I disagree. If the DM wants to be clear about which books will or will not be allowed in her campaign thats her right. Even if the DM says Core only.
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In fact I think the DM has very clear and succinct reasoning here. Your not allowed to cherry pick some abilities becuase then everyone would have to be allowed to do that and the DM would have to spend time reviewing it and potentially dealing with the fall out of allowing some players to have some stuff while saying no to other players request.
I agree 100% with Jeremy. It may seem as if the DM is being arbitrary and capricious, but what he is actually doing is enforcing a fair and reasonable (in light of his available free time) standard that applies to everyone equally.
I allow anything from WotC, Dungepn and Dragon Included. Now PF is taking the role of WotC.