My gaming group and me has a problem.
We come together very seldomly. There are three weeks in the year we all are present: between February and March, between August and September and in the winter holidays. These times are precious and we want to play something we all enjoy. At the moment I am running the RotR-AP. The PCs have just finished with the Grauls, so Fort Rannick would be next. But to be honest the AP has too many large dungeons for our taste. The fort is a 37 room dungeon and in the next two adventures it doesn't get dungeon light, too. Fortress of the Stone Giants is very combat oriented and Sins of the Saviors has a huge dungeon of its own. So I am considering a switch. But where to?
I was thinking about the new AP, as I have heard that it is less dungeon heavy or that it is at least divided into more smaller ones. That it is mostly set in one region is very good for our group, too. When we play we want smaller sessions around 5 hours instead of the 8-12 hour sessions we used to have with RotR-AP. Do you think that would be possible with Curse of the Crimson Throne? Of course one can end a session whenever he desires but we wanted to finish one part so that it is not so confusing when we continue a couple of month or weeks later.
Then there is the idea to play some of the GameMastery modules as they are much more smaller than the Pathfinder adventures. Although I fear that the GM modules aren't that easily separated into small sessions.
Perhaps there is a way to lighten up RotR-AP that it appeals more to our gaming group.
Opinion and advice very very very welcome!!!
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No one has seen the second AP yet, so we aren't sure how it stacks up as far as the size of dungeons... as far as gamemastery mods - they are 32 pages instead of 50 (less if you pick one with a big appendix) so each one will take about 1/2 the time of a pathfinder adventure. considering that you seem to get lots done during your 3 weeks this may be good, may be bad, thats something only you guys can decide, since you know how your group moves. The second AP looks to have even more RP opportunities and to be set in a city, so no room for big dungeons, but lots of small 10 room dens of ill repute to look for a sneaky thief that stole your medallion and ran, and who knows he might not be in the first one.
Thanks for the input so far. I am thinking and tinkering about how to lighten up the dungeon density or combat frequency a bit, but especially Fortress of the Stonegiants makes it difficult.
Without even the first adventure of CotCT in hands it is really hard to tell, but I gues I am too impatient with the next session on the horizon.
Perhaps there is a way to lighten up RotR-AP that it appeals more to our gaming group.Opinion and advice very very very welcome!!!
I do not like big dungeon either. I find them boring to DM & to play.
You can always play the AP without focusing on dungeon exploration. I have found useful to add a "countdown" when players are exploring so that they do not loose to much time searching/fighting/resting in each room - they have to get through the dungeon fast in order to...rescue the hostages, prevent the Big boss to complete its dangerous magical ritual, à la "24h". It worked pretty well.
Thanks for the input so far. I am thinking and tinkering about how to lighten up the dungeon density or combat frequency a bit, but especially Fortress of the Stonegiants makes it difficult.
Without even the first adventure of CotCT in hands it is really hard to tell, but I gues I am too impatient with the next session on the horizon.
How we did Fortress:
I had Mokmurian take one elder from each tribe as hostage to improve his hold over the giant army. The PCs had already made a friend among the giants; they contacted this friend and said, "What would it take for us to turn the army against Mokmurian?" The friend said, "Rescue the elders and destroy the Cauldron. We'll take out the loyalists among the tribes and stage an uprising if you can do that."
This makes it more of a targeted raid and less of a dungeon crawl. My player likes big combats fairly well, so we ended up with a sprawling above-ground battle with mammoths and whatnot running around, but you wouldn't have to.
I also deleted some of the monsters and replaced them with a more organized, larger group of giants inside. They felt kind of random to me, especially the scanderig and the Shining Child.
The one that's really hard to de-dungeon is Sins of the Saviors. My PCs struck a deal with Xaliasa, and later a deal with the Wrathful, but it still played as a big dungeon crawl--just a rather short one (4 sessions).
Mary
I do not like big dungeon either. I find them boring to DM & to play.
You can always play the AP without focusing on dungeon exploration. I have found useful to add a "countdown" when players are exploring so that they do not loose to much time searching/fighting/resting in each room - they have to get through the dungeon fast in order to...rescue the hostages, prevent the Big boss to complete its dangerous magical ritual, à la "24h". It worked pretty well.
Interesting idea Anglachel, but could you explain a bit more detailed how you handled such a countdown? Oh and I wouldn't say I don't like a good dungeon crawl once in a while, but in RotR their density is a bit high.
How we did Fortress:
I had Mokmurian take one elder from each tribe as hostage to improve his hold over the giant army. The PCs had already made a friend among the giants; they contacted this friend and said, "What would it take for us to turn the army against Mokmurian?" The friend said, "Rescue the elders and destroy the Cauldron. We'll take out the loyalists among the tribes and stage an uprising if you can do that."
This makes it more of a targeted raid and less of a dungeon crawl. My player likes big combats fairly well, so we ended up with a sprawling above-ground battle with mammoths and whatnot running around, but you wouldn't have to.
I also deleted some of the monsters and replaced them with a more organized, larger group of giants inside. They felt kind of random to me, especially the scanderig and the Shining Child.
The one that's really hard to de-dungeon is Sins of the Saviors. My PCs struck a deal with Xaliasa, and later a deal with the Wrathful, but it still played as a big dungeon crawl--just a rather short one (4 sessions).
Mary
I like the idea of a targeted raid pretty much! And yes, the mixture of monsters seemed a bit wild to me, too. I might go the direction to simply get rid of some of them.
Oh and Sins would be really hard for my group. One cannot leave some of parts of the dungeon be and it is really huge for our standard. From your posts I have learned that your group of PCs is played by one player so there is not much discussion which way to go and such. A group of 4-5 players would surely need even more time/sessions.
I can't say my situations as extreme as yours, Aureus, but I've a group of part-time gamers too and we've seen a couple campaigns fall apart because of a lack of progress in our infrequent gaming sessions. When you get together an average of once every three weeks, it can take an entire season just to complete a dungeon and, by that time, my players don't even remember why they're in the dungeon.
My untried solution ('cause we took a break from D&D for a while after our last campaign dissolved) is to cut about half the content of the mods I'm running. I'll be taking a hard look at each encounter and making sure it either builds up the story or is at least unique and entertaining enough on its own. Repetitious battles and encounters with too much extranneous background will likely get axed.
I'll probably compensate for the lack of encounters by doubling the xp earned at the ones which remain. This would allow my PCs to advance at the proper pace of the AP. There will probably be a slight shortage in treasure, though, but I'm actually pretty okay with that.
My untried solution ('cause we took a break from D&D for a while after our last campaign dissolved) is to cut about half the content of the mods I'm running. I'll be taking a hard look at each encounter and making sure it either builds up the story or is at least unique and entertaining enough on its own. Repetitious battles and encounters with too much extranneous background will likely get axed.
Suggestions for cuts in RotRL:
#1 Drop the shadows and one or two of the named NPCs from Thistletop. Remove some empty rooms.
#2 Consider removing the Magnimar arc completely, so as to focus on the haunted house.
#3 Drop the finale at Hook Mountain; just do the Grauls and Fort Rannick. Remove some rooms from the Fort.
#4 Drop the random encounters while travelling. Remove about half the monsters from the lower level of Jorgenfist, and delete the empty rooms.
#5 Cut the physical size of the dungeons a *lot*, especially Gluttony, Wrath and Greed; they are full of useless empty rooms. Don't run the lesser undead in Gluttony. Watch out for the traps, as they can slow play to a crawl: you may want to delete some, particularly the goldfish trap.
#6 Give the PCs a single clear goal in the Lower City and let them slice through to it. Make enough tokens available that the whole party can get them readily; don't make them hunt all over town for tokens.
Mary
#3 Drop the finale at Hook Mountain; just do the Grauls and Fort Rannick. Remove some rooms from the Fort.
Honestly, I'm cutting the Grauls out of this one. It's a shame Logue's strong ability to evoke powerful images is being used to create images that make me sick.
Other than that, I haven't put much thought into cutting past 'Burnt Offerings' yet. I'm waiting for my players to decide they want to play it.
#3 Drop the finale at Hook Mountain; just do the Grauls and Fort Rannick. Remove some rooms from the Fort.Honestly, I'm cutting the Grauls out of this one. It's a shame Logue's strong ability to evoke powerful images is being used to create images that make me sick.
That works too. There is one set of ogres more than necessary, and it doesn't matter much which one you lose. We had the most fun with Fort Rannick (it was the place we first appreciated that Lel is the Halfling of Wrath--I would not have expected a halfling warmage to be the person holding the lower door against the onrushing ogres!)
Some of the "atrocity art" in Fort Rannick can also be quietly left out; my player let me know he'd heard enough of it already and could fill in for himself henceforth. Artistically speaking, I'd leave *all* of the atrocities out of Fortress, so as to make a clearer distinction between stone giants and ogres--the barrel of eyeball candy in Jorgenfist seemed really out of place. Ogres are hooligans; stone giants are warriors. Otherwise it's just one Big Dumb Thing after another, which is less interesting.
Mary
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Honestly, I'm cutting the Grauls out of this one. It's a shame Logue's strong ability to evoke powerful images is being used to create images that make me sick.Other than that, I haven't put much thought into cutting past 'Burnt Offerings' yet. I'm waiting for my players to decide they want to play it.
I've read it and reread it, and I really can't see what's so bad about the Graul homestead. I honestly think James cut way too much that it lost a lot of its "Chainsaw Massacre"/"Hostel" type of feel and that I have to add in a lot more.
Then again my group thinks the BoVD was pretty stale.
IMHO the splatter elements in HMM are a matter of taste. Some like it some don't.
But there were great suggestions in this thread how to de-dungeon the RotR-AP and I might try it. Thanks a lot and keep em coming! :D