So... we don't know too much about how hobgoblins are going to work in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting. We have a lot on goblins, and a few tidbits on bugbears - basically that they're bigger, hairier goblins. Fit right in.
But hobgoblins are a bit different. They're lawful, for one thing. And we still don't have any ideas about their appearance.
My personal take on it is that hobgoblins look like a more proportional goblin. The head is about the same size, but attached to a trunk better able to support it. Hobgoblins have very long limbs and dexterous fingers, but they have far more endurance than a puny goblin.
Now, the hobgoblins have their own militaristic, rigidly disciplined tribes, and generally keep away from their runty little cousins - unless to keep as slaves, of course. But very rarely, a goblin might spontaneously metamorphose into a hobgoblin, upon whence it is usually attacked by its kinsmen. Nobody knows for sure why, but the goblins think that if a goblin reads and writes too much, and especially if its own name is written down somewhere, it'll turn into a weird, stretched creature of laws and words: a hobgoblin.
I've always liked the traditional look of hobgoblins. They've been a favorite of mine since I first played the old Baldur's Gate video game. I've always downplayed their relationship with goblins frankly, since they seem like such different creatures. It's like I heard the original idea for gnolls was they were the product of crossbreeding between gnomes and trolls. That was a "fact" I immediately buried.
It's the recent stuff with hobgoblin culture that I'm frankly going to be excited to see revised. They need a new treatment. The whole mystic tribal but militant devotees of Tiamat thing just doesn't work for me. I don't like hobgoblin monks and clerics in red flame robes. The last entry on them in the Monster Manual V was what really convinced me they need a reinventing.
I'll be really interested to see what Pathfinder does with them. Particularly considering tying them to goblins in Pathfinder seems like a strange way to go--the goblins being pretty one-of-a-kind.
|
Back in the original 1e. Monster Manual, they had an oriental look---bunch of hobgoblins in samurai-style armor. Could do something with that motif, seeing as a pseudo Japan is represented on Golarion.
Hobgoblins and goblins could be separate species that evolved from one precursor species in geographically isolated environments.
I had a cool idea (well, cool to me, anyway).
Hobgoblins could be from the Minkai region of Golarion, in fact they are the dominant species. They have a highly lawful society, ruled by separate castes of rulers, and are tyrannical (but protective) towards their human (Minkai) servants.
Hobgoblin samurai, in devil-face masks with katanas, greatbows, and riding horses... wouldn't that frighten our dear little Sandpoint goblins?
I've always been slightly leery of using hobgoblins myself, the whole 'goblins, but bigger' thing never quite worked for me, and I used to be an old Warhammer player, so goblins and orcs NOT being related also creeped me out.
That said, I've DMed through Red Hand of Doom (thank you, James Jacobs, for 6 months of once-weekly gaming that introduced about a dozen 14-year-olds to D&D and hooked 1/3 of them permanently) and I didn't mind their monks. I did, however, find them worshipping Tiamat (instead of Maglubiyet) strange.
Edit: Damn you Heathansson, you beat me to it!
I don't care for hobgoblins. I never saw anything that made them seem interesting or sufficiently unique (to me)) to keep in a game.I hope Paizo ignores them completely in Golarion. Just because a monster is listed in a book somewhere doesn't mean it has to be in the setting.
Oooh. I like the samurai hobgoblin idea. The big question I have though is "hobgoblin" just doesn't work as an asian creature name.
A nation of Oni and Bakemono on the other hand...
Oooh. I like the samurai hobgoblin idea. The big question I have though is "hobgoblin" just doesn't work as an asian creature name.
A nation of Oni and Bakemono on the other hand...
Perhaps the Oni (Ogre Mages) are the true ruling caste of the Bakemono (hobgoblin) nation, and they in turn oppress the Minkai (hobgoblin for "pink and weak", used in this term as a slang for "human"). Maybe they even rule openly, prompting their Bakemono Samurai to wear helmets that depict their tusked, horned faces, as a reminder of their authority and the horrors that await rebellious peasants and servants.
|
Hobgoblins always struck me as the only monstrous humanoids capable of creating a viable nation, and as such, they seem to have a lot of potential. A hobgoblin nation or even empire might actually give humans a run for their money. I can absolutely see them in an "oriental" area of Golarion, or as I mentioned in another threat, in an India or Persia like area. Or even as pirates a la Indonesia, so more South or Southeast Asia than Far East. They fill the same niche in my mind as Klingons in the Star Trek universe - savage, militaristic, yet civilized in that they have rich traditions and cultures. I also see them as LN as much as LE.
I also like the idea of bugbears as giant goblins, maybe even randomly springing out of them. But hobgoblins are distant (and much more highly evolved) cousins who deny any relation and hate regular goblins more than humans do.
Hobgoblins always struck me as the only monstrous humanoids capable of creating a viable nation, and as such, they seem to have a lot of potential.
Didn't the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting have hobgoblin kingdoms? And I know Eberron had them as a "fallen" race. I may peruse my old books for some ideas........
The idea of using Hobgoblins as am oriental/pseudo-japanese race is cool. I always loved their depiction in the 1st Ed MM. And the structure with Oni on top, Hobgoblins (call ´em Bakemono or whatever is fitting) as middle echelon and humans as slaves sure is a nice difference from the usual oriental settings.
I am a Hobgoblin fan anyway - I even introduced them in our LARP ans NPCs, and plan on playing one myself :-)) Here is a picture of two of them.(The guy on the right is about two meters tall, and loved playing this role :-))
We introduced them working as mercenaries for the human realm, and had loads of fun with our dwarven PCs :-)
Stefan
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I picture them as mongols myself. Nomadic, horse riding barbarians raiding villiages taking what they want... The readon they don't have an empire is the evil component of their alignment. They can't rally behind one leader as a whole. IOW, there's no Hobgoblin Gengis Khan.
Hobgoblins always struck me as the only monstrous humanoids capable of creating a viable nation, and as such, they seem to have a lot of potential. A hobgoblin nation or even empire might actually give humans a run for their money. I can absolutely see them in an "oriental" area of Golarion, or as I mentioned in another threat, in an India or Persia like area. Or even as pirates a la Indonesia, so more South or Southeast Asia than Far East. They fill the same niche in my mind as Klingons in the Star Trek universe - savage, militaristic, yet civilized in that they have rich traditions and cultures. I also see them as LN as much as LE.
I also like the idea of bugbears as giant goblins, maybe even randomly springing out of them. But hobgoblins are distant (and much more highly evolved) cousins who deny any relation and hate regular goblins more than humans do.
When I ran my homebrew, I made a small ciy-state for the hobgoblins who lived in a fort-like city on the outskirts of the forest that held the elves, yet was on the other side of the forest from most of the human civilizations. That allowed me to keep the constant war between the hobgoblins and the elves without bringing the humans into it. I love hobgoblins and feel they are the most underused humanoid race. Yet I can understand why. Hobgoblins actually have a strong potential to conquer human lands. They are lawful and military-minded, so the potential for crumbling from within is about as strong as it would be with dwarves. That is why I like the hobgoblin city-state concept.
and here's the clincher:
humans are forbidden weapons, so practice karate at night in secret and with farm implements---hence the monk class!!!
Nice take on it. That's very cool - it all hangs together very well.
I don't care for hobgoblins. I never saw anything that made them seem interesting or sufficiently unique (to me)) to keep in a game.I hope Paizo ignores them completely in Golarion. Just because a monster is listed in a book somewhere doesn't mean it has to be in the setting.
Since I don't have MMV, I am recently familiar with them eeking out a lukewarm role as a bland, boiled cabbage, low CR encounter. I used to like the 2ed hobgoblins. Then I became disinterested. I tended to use either goblins or Orcs in the wake of 3.5. However, if Paizo can remake the goblins into such a fun creature to play or encounter, I have faith that they can likewise transform the hobgoblins into something just as interesting.
Well, octopus and rabbit don't sound all that oriental, but tako and usagi do...
Heck, maybe they're not really 100% related to goblins, hence the turn "hob" which is a (reaches into his magic bag) bastardization of the old Chelaxian word "hobieas" meaning false or what-have-you.
According to one dictionary, a hobgoblin simply refers to "ugly elf" or "ugly goblin." It can also mean: an object or source of fear, dread, or harrassment; a bugbear. "Hob," itself, refers to either a spirit intending harm or a mischievous fairie which includes elves, gremlins, imps, pixies, and brownies, among others. With this in mind, using the literal term "hobgoblin" for me has always been a horrible appropriation by TSR since I had this knowledg in mind. So, for 2ed, instead of using "hobgoblins," I went a bit Tolkien and created a kind-of "Uruk Hai" race. I made them bigger than Orcs, consisting of a modern-thinking, militant race of lawful warriors. As I imply from Heathansson, a "name" can go a long way to change the flavor of the beast.
Oooh. I like the samurai hobgoblin idea. The big question I have though is "hobgoblin" just doesn't work as an asian creature name.
A nation of Oni and Bakemono on the other hand...
This and Heathansson's point would help the "hobgoblin" tremendously if, even though the inspiration comes from the "hobgoblin" creature, Paizo creates a monster such as the "Oni" or "Bakemono."
I picture them as mongols myself. Nomadic, horse riding barbarians raiding villiages taking what they want... The readon they don't have an empire is the evil component of their alignment. They can't rally behind one leader as a whole. IOW, there's no Hobgoblin Gengis Khan.
In my brief homebrew setting, I also gave my hobgoblins a Mongolian flavor complete with whistling arrows, horse tactics, silk undershirts that halted poison and made pulling out arrows easier, and gift with slapping together siegecraft in a pinch.
As others have posted, I'd love to see hobgoblins flavorized and given a more prominant role. Perhaps they have a budding empire.
I'd also be keen on seeing Hobgoblin Psionicists.
What was cool about the 2ed. hob's? Just curious.
I was younger, and had a friend paint one of my hobgoblin, lead figurines puke green and barf yellow (chuckles).
I'm at a disadvantage since I have long since thrown away my 2ed materials. I vaguely recall a decent picture, I had the Humanoids supplement which made a witch doctor character interesting, and there was something in the ecology I can't recall.
Hobgoblins will be getting a makeover in Classic Monsters Revisited.
Well, octopus and rabbit don't sound all that oriental, but tako and usagi do...
*Laughs*...hey man, bakemono does mean (more or less) hobgoblin and oni does (more or less) mean ogre.
So yeah--that was kinda' my point exactly.
|
Back in the original 1e. Monster Manual, they had an oriental look---bunch of hobgoblins in samurai-style armor. Could do something with that motif, seeing as a pseudo Japan is represented on Golarion.
Hobgoblins and goblins could be separate species that evolved from one precursor species in geographically isolated environments.
My homebrew has hobgoblins with a samurai-like culture.
I'd forgotten where the idea originally came from. Thanks for reminding me!
|
I am of the opinion that hobgoblins in fact have almost nothing in common with goblins , any more than a gnoll or orc does. The name hobgoblin was applied by the PC races to the hobgoblins. Just koala bears are not bears at all. We call them bears but they are not. Hobgoblins are called goblins but are in no way like them.
I run hobgoblins as race on par with the humans. A brutal society of strength and power and honor. They do not call themselves hobgoblins, and do not associate with them unless the goblin is a slave and even then, a goblin slave is the lowest level of slave there is. A goblin slaveholder is lower class as well.
The hobgoblins fill a definitive niche in the game. Orcs are the cliche chaotic brutal bad guys. Hobgoblins on the other hand are a more dangerous threat because of their organization. There is no other low level monster that fills that niche.
People get too wrapped up in the goblin part of their name, and not in the roll they serve or can serve.
I had a cool idea (well, cool to me, anyway).
Hobgoblins could be from the Minkai region of Golarion, in fact they are the dominant species. They have a highly lawful society, ruled by separate castes of rulers, and are tyrannical (but protective) towards their human (Minkai) servants.
Hobgoblin samurai, in devil-face masks with katanas, greatbows, and riding horses... wouldn't that frighten our dear little Sandpoint goblins?
Coming in here late guys, I know, but this has my interest.
What an excellent idea! That the Tian are in fact the hobgoblins.
You could even make it quite amusing, the hobgoblins of the inner sea are green because of being mixed with orc blood, but the hobgoblins of Tian and Minkai are a more neutral flesh colour, which often leads to them being confused as a type of human and somewhat related to the kellids, kelesh or chelaxians. Their lawfulness and discipline leads to excelling in the path of the monk, the samurai, the marshal and ordered tyranny, but they are most certainly not human.
I've heard people call Japanese "moon-language" and it makes a curious sense for the highly complex and odd looking Tian language to not actually be human (then again Arabic and Thai look extremely artistic and non-western, not at all like the most common human language today).
The hobgoblin has been given a little attention in Isger, as coordinators of the goblins there and their past successes. Not too much else, but I really like them.
The hobgoblins fill a definitive niche in the game. Orcs are the cliche chaotic brutal bad guys. Hobgoblins on the other hand are a more dangerous threat because of their organization. There is no other low level monster that fills that niche.
"People get too wrapped up in the goblin part of their name, and not in the roll they serve or can serve."
Yes, the low CR cunning bad guys, with drill, good morale and no real penalties.