Yeah, that million and a half is going to pay his heating bill this winter...
Still, I like to think of Al Gore as the "Anti-President."
My wife finally forced me to watch Gore's "documentary." As an eco-friendly kind of guy, I was happy to see him getting the message out. As a geologist, I was apalled at the sloppiness of his research, the blatantly misleading statements he makes, and the games he attempts to play with statistics. If I weren't capable of doing my own research and guardedly agreeing with some aspects of his premise, that movie would have been enough to make me discount what I'll call "human-aggrandized climate change" completely. His point would be much more forcefully made if he backed it up with real science instead of spin. As it is, I'd withhold the prize, contingent upon him cleaning up his act and re-editing his movie without the lies, inaccuracies, and cant.
Never saw the documentary nor read his book. I think he can have the Nobel Peace Prize just because he's a politician from the U.S. that has actively worked to make people aware of global warming. I've heard about his sloppy research and spin. Fine. He's a politician, not a meteorologist. Frankly, I'd have been offended if he had gotten a prize with a more scientific basis, like Physics.
Still would be happier if he'd clean up his act, though.
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The deal with the energy bill is that:
A) He lives on a huge, honkin' ranch. Huge honkin' ranches consume a wee bit more energy to run that an average house.
B) He apparently pays extra to get his watts from an environmentally friendly provider. Clean (or kinda clean...) energy is apparently really expensive and hard to get in Tennessee.
In short, that knock on his electricity bill is h&%#$*~%~, as it contrasts his entire huge property's usage against the needs of a single smallish house and holds the cost of energy constant across cases. If, on the other hand, somebody had been able to show that Gore uses 20 times the energy of an average consumer per square foot or some other such standardised measure, I'd sit up and pay some attention.
As for the movie - meh. I agree it was heavy-handed and dependent on shock value. But if that makes people wake up and take action, I'm fine with that.
I stand rightfully rebuked.
Whatever. The Nobel peace prize has been pretty meaningless ever since they awarded one to Yasir Arafat.
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How many bed and bath his house got?
I have no idea. I think I saw a airborne shot of the property once - it's four or five houses, including a big barn. It seems reasonable to me to assume that anyone who needs to ventilate and heat a barn probably spends more electricity than an average exurb ranch house. Just sayin'...
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Wow. This so relevant to D&D! I'm really glad you posted it!!!
Seriously, enough with the politics threads already. Go somewhere else if you want to tell us how Gore is a hypocrite or Bush hates puppies.
Go. Away.
Seb, to be fair, this is the off-topic forum. It doesn't need to have anything to do with D&D... or gaming at all, really.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Seb, to be fair, this is the off-topic forum. It doesn't need to have anything to do with D&D... or gaming at all, really.
I suppose, but I'm still sick of it. It's one thing to have a politics thread once in a while, or even an ongoing politics thread such as the religious thread, but every week we've got a new thread with an in-your-face headline about world events. I hear the internet is a big place wtih all sorts of nice communities. Maybe one of them gives a damn about your political leanings and you can go rant there.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I suppose, but I'm still sick of it. It's one thing to have a politics thread once in a while, or even an ongoing politics thread such as the religious thread, but every week we've got a new thread with an in-your-face headline about world events. I hear the internet is a big place wtih all sorts of nice communities. Maybe one of them gives a damn about your political leanings and you can go rant there.
I think you just need a hug.
Spaghetti Jesus OKAY.
Algor bashing--NOKAY.
GRONK!!!
I always imagined Jesus was more like ravioli than spaghetti. Pasta wrapped around a delicious, warm, martyred filling.
Please don't persecute me for my religious beliefs.
My entire family line sounds like pastas, well, until my father had to go and get adopted.
I bet we're secretly related to Spaghetti Jesus.
"You can pray to the Spaghetti Jesus if you want to, but I just like the baby Jesus better!" --Ricky Bobby
Wow...I just saw a recent pic...is he metamorphosing into Santa Claus?
Of all forms of transportation, reindeer have the smallest ecological footprint. Especially FLYING reindeer. You turn the manure into fertilizer and you're set. That's the real reason he's getting the prize.
My wife finally forced me to watch Gore's "documentary."... His point would be much more forcefully made if he backed it up with real science instead of spin...
You mean like *Thousands* of scientists and others have been doing for decades?
I have not yet seen "An Inconvenient Truth", but I have seen documentaries for well over a decade that have done just as you suggest, fully backed up with facts. Great for me, bad for "Traction" as it's politically put.
As another pointed out, his book and movie finally got people's attention, and that's really all that matters.
If you don't think "spin" makes points forcefully, look back at the run-up to the most recent, or any, war.
Well some people are obviously interested because they are reading it and posting. If you aren't don't bother looking at it and read something else. That's why the threads have topic title's.
Seb, to be fair, this is the off-topic forum. It doesn't need to have anything to do with D&D... or gaming at all, really.I suppose, but I'm still sick of it. It's one thing to have a politics thread once in a while, or even an ongoing politics thread such as the religious thread, but every week we've got a new thread with an in-your-face headline about world events. I hear the internet is a big place wtih all sorts of nice communities. Maybe one of them gives a damn about your political leanings and you can go rant there.
Seb, to be fair, this is the off-topic forum. It doesn't need to have anything to do with D&D... or gaming at all, really.I suppose, but I'm still sick of it. It's one thing to have a politics thread once in a while, or even an ongoing politics thread such as the religious thread, but every week we've got a new thread with an in-your-face headline about world events. I hear the internet is a big place wtih all sorts of nice communities. Maybe one of them gives a damn about your political leanings and you can go rant there.
I'm sorry.
Outside of my circle of friends on Maui, this is the only place i could "reasonably discuss" such things. As far as my friends go, they usually agree with my opionion because I'm the best educated and a smart ass. They've had to put me in my place more than once (most are pretty big, 6'+, 250-300lb +).I got rubbed raw out here too.
So sorry.
I'm glad he won and hope he soon joins the presidential race, preferably in league with Barack Obama as a VP choice. Seems to me like the country is ready for 16 years of non-conservative rule.
--Erik
Hmmmpp
Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Heh, heh.........
Sorry, but I'd have a hard time living under the rule of Jim Henson's last creation.
This is aimed at no one in particular, but if the thoughts that follow offend you, good. Let the venting begin.
Today's word of the day? Perspective.
Since this is programmed (flooding me from many blogs and talk radio stations) water cooler talk du jour... Yeah, he clearly deserves it, and much conversation to the contrary has been bought and paid for by the people who want to confuse the message for the messenger, a typical tactic used to divert people from the truth of a situation. Anyone capable of getting those who've ignored the threat of global warming to suddenly wake up has potentially done much for humankind and for creation, even if they didn't have all their facts straight and eat too many Clark bars. Thus the prize. A prize that validates and re-promotes a vital message. You do realize conservative think tanks have spent millions of dollars to make you associate Al Gore with global warming and to program you to dislike him in order to discredit the concept he's pushing, right? Viral conversations that trickle down from think tanks to pundits to regular folk. We tend to discuss that which we've been told to discuss.
"He said polar bears are dying and there'll be more tornados! There's no proof of those two things! AHA!"
Even, if that were so, does that invalidate the rest of the message? Not his message... the message.
Does the end justify the means when it comes to celebrity spokesmen? I mean these guys and gals have the gall to stand up there and tell us how it is when they're not even experts themselves. Al tries to share what experts have taught him in order to help save the world but he's got a ridiculously high electricity bill (though he buys renewable energy credits to offset his usage, for what it's worth). So who are we supposed to listen to? The people who aren't famous enough to get their documentary noticed by the general public? That won't work for well over ninety percent of us. We need Sting, Bono and Al. If Sting does a concert for the rainforests but demands a redwood milkshake before going onstage, do you give it to him? Because though he's killing a tree for his tasty beverage, his message from on (celebrity) high is saving thousands of future redwood milkshakes.
People with celebrity status are the only ones dozing sheep will pay attention to and so it's them, and not drab experts, we as a public are willing to listen to. It's not the celebrity's fault for being imperfect or taken too seriously, it's the cloying and insipid public that needs a glamorous candy shell on every bite of truth.
I mean, if Britney Spears suddenly decided she was a bad mother and preached about turning her life around she'd get more press than Doctor Spock ever did, but if suddenly moms around the world took notice and became better moms you know what? That ditzy shine-swillin' blue-pillin' intellect-in-a-larval-state should get a nobel prize too. It's about the good that has been done, not the porn charges on credit cards and reefer use in college.
You do realize conservative think tanks have spent millions of dollars to make you associate Al Gore with global warming and to program you to dislike him in order to discredit the concept he's pushing, right? Viral conversations that trickle down from think tanks to pundits to regular folk. We tend to discuss that which we've been told to discuss.
And what of the "liberal" think-tanks? Don't they feed us the same kind of sh*t, just a different flavor?
Does the end justify the means when it comes to celebrity spokesmen? I mean these guys and gals have the gall to stand up there and tell us how it is when they're not even experts themselves.
Tell us "how it is"? Or should it be "how they think it is"? Personally, I don't need someone telling me how I should think. Kind of insulting. I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much.
For reference, here is my take:
Is the globe warming? - Research has shown that, yeah, it is.
Is mankind responsible? - To some degree, yes. But I don't think of myself that highly, much less other people. Besides, the earth has been around a hell of a lot longer than mankind, and I'm pretty sure the old girl knows how to take care of herself. So I believe that man's impact on warming is for the most part theoretical at this point. I'll keep reading the research coming out, and make up my own mind down the road.
Just me two cents. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is how some consensus is made.
Carry on! :-)
Seems to me like the country is ready for 16 years of non-conservative rule.
--Erik
Wow, I didn't know you spoke for everyone in the country. I'm glad your there to tell me how I should think.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Hey, dude, check out the part of the post that says "seems to me."
Where am I talking for the whole country, again?
Also, to the guy who has vomit in his mouth, tastes pretty bad, huh? I've been enjoying my vomit for seven years now, so I'm afraid to say it doesn't get better with time. :)
--Erik
Erik, get to writing some more Golarion-goodness and stay out of the off-topic forum, young man!!!
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Hey, dude, check out the part of the post that says "seems to me."
Where am I talking for the whole country, again?
Also, to the guy who has vomit in his mouth, tastes pretty bad, huh? I've been enjoying my vomit for seven years now, so I'm afraid to say it doesn't get better with time. :)
--Erik
Speaking as the "vomit" guy... Ah come on Mona, where's your sense of humor. Gore is a nutcase. So he won the Nobel Peace Prize! So what.. Yasser Arafat won it to. Hell, so did Jimmy Carter. Besides, I was vomiting all through that travesty called the Clinton Administration... I know what it tastes like.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I've got a good sense of humor, I'm sort of forced to. Why is Gore a nutcase, again? Because his line on global warming is kookier than the one pushed by industry?
It's probably not a good idea for me to be talking politics on this site, though, so I leave you guys to your own devices.
Please be cool to one another, and no melting the polar ice caps! :)
--Erik
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Even, if that were so, does that invalidate the rest of the message? Not his message... the message.Does the end justify the means when it comes to celebrity spokesmen? I mean these guys and gals have the gall to stand up there and tell us how it is when they're not even experts themselves. Al tries to share what experts have taught him in order to help save the world but he's got a ridiculously high electricity bill (though he buys renewable energy credits to offset his usage, for what it's worth). So who are we supposed to listen to?
I'm just reminded of "four legs good, two legs....BETTER" from Animal Farm. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Al Gore is Napoleon the pig. And I think that global warming is an actual scientifically documented phenomenon eggregiously exacerbated by primarily.......the U.S.A.
I just feel that to lead by example is of tantamount importance in this matter. It's just one more reason for society to keep living in denial of the problems we're creating. When a celebrity spokesperson doesn't practice what he or she preaches, I think it naturally lends credence to doubting the veracity of the sermon, or if not that then it helps foster a tendancy to ignore the message.Al Gore as ersatz Polonius: "never a lender or a borrower be. Oh, and the polar bears are dieing." In one ear, out the other.
And what of the "liberal" think-tanks? Don't they feed us the same kind of sh*t, just a different flavor?
Not for the same reasons. I don't track liberal think tanks because they are utterly inneffectual and don't cause the same sorts of problems or represent quite the same forces. BTW, I'm not a liberal. I hate politicians and politics with a passion. That said, they affect my life and so I have to pay attention to them.
Tell us "how it is"? Or should it be "how they think it is"? Personally, I don't need someone telling me how I should think. Kind of insulting. I'll make up my own mind, thank you very much.
Me not agree. We don't think for ourselves. We're given printed and recorded information from multiple official and/or famous sources and we do our best to seperate the agenda-filled grain feed from that which seems to be factual. Most people don't even take it that far. They take the information that backs up what they already think (for fear of comprehending their own fallibility) and toss the rest.
You didn't privately fund research and come to the conclusion that the concensus of scientists who now say that it is 90 percent likely that humans are causing the problem are sadly inaccurate. To say the jury still isn't in seems to me to be deliberate obstinance. The fact that global warming and ice ages happen naturally is not the question. The question is are we pushing this particular one through the door?
The permafrost in Russia is melting away, and when all those caribou carcasses are revealed to the air all at once a methane bomb is headed to the heavens with far more bite than all car pollution put together. One thing invariably leads to another. I won't even get into what's going terribly awry in the world's oceans. You can wait to tear the sheets off you until the house is on fire or you jump out of your bed and investigate for all you're worth when the smoke detector goes off. To not answer its call seems to me hysterical blindess.
For reference, here is my take:
Is the globe warming? - Research has shown that, yeah, it is.
Is mankind responsible? - To some degree, yes. But I don't think of myself that highly, much less other people. Besides, the earth has been around a hell of a lot longer than mankind, and I'm pretty sure the old girl knows how to take care of herself. So I believe that man's impact on warming is for the most part theoretical at this point. I'll keep reading the research coming out, and make up my own mind down the road.
I refrain from using George Carlin quotes from late 80's HBO specials when I'm talking science. I'm Nipsey Russel all the way (joke). Seriously... he said that in its entirety, adding "The world will shake us off like a head cold."
To say 6 billion people can't, en masse, take a planet down through irresponsible consumption doesn't seem so out there to me. Call me crazy.
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I've got a good sense of humor, I'm sort of forced to. Why is Gore a nutcase, again? Because his line on global warming is kookier than the one pushed by industry?
It's probably not a good idea for me to be talking politics on this site, though, so I leave you guys to your own devices.
Please be cool to one another, and no melting the polar ice caps! :)
--Erik
Ah s#@!, truth to tell I love Al. I call him a nutcase out of a sense of respect. I've always liked hime way more than Bill. Al's got his piece, and he sticks to his guns. Got to respect that. Plus, he's made millions off of stuff like Google. But I also think its funny that the thing he gets most recognized for these days, the whole environment thing, some judge in Europe just got finished pointing out how many errors he had in his little "documentary".
I'm just reminded of "four legs good, two legs....BETTER" from Animal Farm. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Al Gore is Napoleon the pig. And I think that global warming is an actual scientifically documented phenomenon eggregiously exacerbated by primarily.......the U.S.A.
I just feel that to lead by example is of tantamount importance in this matter. It's just one more reason for society to keep living in denial of the problems we're creating. When a celebrity spokesperson doesn't practice what he or she preaches, I think it naturally lends credence to doubting the veracity of the sermon, or if not that then it helps foster a tendancy to ignore the message.
Al Gore as ersatz Polonius: "never a lender or a borrower be. Oh, and the polar bears are dieing." In one ear, out the other.
I really hear you, but Gore is not the king of global warming. For some reason he's just the guy people are listening to. Believe me I wish people would pay attention to the actual experts.
Every celebrity who talks past their depth makes an ass out of themself, but they can still do much good. They kind of have to, because few actually listen to those who know what they're talking about.
And to be fair, I think George Bush Jr. should've gone over and fought in 'Nam.
And Al, and Bill, and...................................... ;-)
I'll come back and play tomorrow but it's time to watch a zombie flick here, guys.
To quote Stephen Colbert, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for the right to fight you ;)
I'll come back and play tomorrow but it's time to watch a zombie flick here, guys.
Which one? Sounds like a great idea.
You mean like *Thousands* of scientists and others have been doing for decades? I have not yet seen "An Inconvenient Truth", but I have seen documentaries for well over a decade that have done just as you suggest, fully backed up with facts. Great for me, bad for "Traction" as it's politically put.
These are the same scientists who, until recently, had no consensus, and only vague ideas of the feedback loops involved, and who were finally muzzled by an "economy-first" overseer? If it's happening, there are ways of obtaining clear enough evidence to convince even Exxon-Mobil. First make the case, THEN sell it; not the other way around. Don't try to hide the fact that we're still leaving an Ice Age, that in the late Cretaceous before that there were no ice caps at all. A good theory accounts for all the evidence. A good theory will withstand testing, whereas a feeble one will get knocked down and make you look like you're spouting nonsense. There are more data now, models with predicitive abilities that test closer to reality, and vastly better theories now than a decade ago; those should have been used, is what I'm advocating. By omitting them and relying and smoke and mirrors, Mr. Gore threatens his own cause:
As another pointed out, his book and movie finally got people's attention, and that's really all that matters.
I fear he's shooting his whole cause in the foot. By missing the movie, you missed, for example, his graph "proving" anthropogenic climate change by CO2 emissions... which clearly shows the changes in CO2 lagging behind the temperature changes... and which somehow he seems to miss. That kind of laxness is like begging people not to believe you. It gives the nay-sayers an iron-clad excuse not to believe the rest of it. And THAT'S my biggest gripe.
If you don't think "spin" makes points forcefully, look back at the run-up to the most recent, or any, war.
Point well taken. I often forget that the majority of the populace can't read a graph. Or even read, for that matter.
I hate politicians and politics with a passion.
We agree here. Wish there were more of us. Then we could send new blood in. Let's call for 2 Senate terms (12 years) and 6 Congressional terms (12 years) max to keep the body politic from rotting.
You didn't privately fund research and come to the conclusion that the concensus of scientists who now say that it is 90 percent likely that humans are causing the problem are sadly inaccurate. To say the jury still isn't in seems to me to be deliberate obstinance.
"Private" funding. I'm sure none of them had any agendas, right? ;-). I've seen too many different numbers on "consensus" to draw that conclusion yet. Maybe in time.
The fact that global warming and ice ages happen naturally is not the question. The question is are we pushing this particular one through the door?
We may very well be. No argument here.
You can wait to tear the sheets off you until the house is on fire or you jump out of your bed and investigate for all you're worth when the smoke detector goes off. To not answer its call...
I'm pretty sure I'll be long dead, as well as my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-so-on-so-on grandchildren are dead. Alarmism is not science. I agree something should be done, but not on my childrens backs.
BTW, I am enjoying this debate. It's refreshing to see so many people without blinders on carrying on a civilized conversation. :-)
Dude, what's with attacking Erik?
Three discussions never to get into if you can avoid it: Religion, politics, sex. Oiy.
Anyhow, Al gives real nutcases such as me bad press. He’s not even remotely crazy, he’s just less “Ed Begley Jr.” (who I bet is at home, pedaling like freaking nuts right now. Gore? Damn you Gore!?!) then people would like.
You want crazy? My take on Global Warming: It’s supposed to happen! We’re screwing up by trying to prevent it. Then again, I think the same thing might be true about cancer, and we’re blocking our own evolutionary process trying to “cure” it. But that’s what makes me crazy (or a very small subset thereof)….