With reference to the Chick cartoons, I love the way that he 'proves' the Bible is the only true scripture by quoting from...the Bible. Priceless circular reasoning that he expands to cover the evils of D&D, other religions etc. I suppose that we should feel honoured that we, as players of D&D are regarded as great a threat to the world as Jews, Muslims, foreigners in general and anyone who isn't in Jack Chick's church. In fact, we are exposed as greater exponents of evil, because we're all working up to a career of active devil-worship. Somehow or other. Mind you, I may be stopped from selling my soul directly to someone out of the Fiendish Codex, because I am from England and (according to Chick) Islam has already brought England to it's knees. I must say it's news to me, but then again, I understand that there is a small and modest mosque within a few miles of here, so doubtless I'm languishing under the shadow of the crescent without knowing it. Although I am drinking Scotch at the moment, so maybe not.
I would have laughed a good deal more at his ignorant, transparently unsubtle propaganda, were it not for the uncomfortable knowledge, in the back of my mind, that some people do actually believe this crap. And if you read through it all, it's a hell of a lot to believe. Chick and his Fundie friends apparently adhere to the very real belief that demons truly exist. Not only that, but said demons are forever lurking in the wings, just out of sight, ready to take over an innocent body or mind that is insufficiently defended. Moreover, they appear convinced that these demons will grant magical powers that actually work to anyone willing to stand in a pentagram in a dressing-gown (c.f. Debbie's successful 'mind bondage' spell in the 'Black Leaf' comic). How do these people sleep at night?
The vast and solid majority of D&D players are very aware that they are indulging in an exercise of fantasy and imagination - which is precisely why they play. The shiny-eyed, happy-clappy types appear to be convinced that it's all true. If either group is in danger of mental trauma and potential physical harm, I know which I'd place my money on.
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With reference to the Chick cartoons, I love the way that he 'proves' the Bible is the only true scripture by quoting from...the Bible. Priceless circular reasoning that he expands to cover the evils of D&D, other religions etc. I suppose that we should feel honoured that we, as players of D&D are regarded as great a threat to the world as Jews, Muslims, foreigners in general and anyone who isn't in Jack Chick's church. In fact, we are exposed as greater exponents of evil, because we're all working up to a career of active devil-worship. Somehow or other. Mind you, I may be stopped from selling my soul directly to someone out of the Fiendish Codex, because I am from England and (according to Chick) Islam has already brought England to it's knees. I must say it's news to me, but then again, I understand that there is a small and modest mosque within a few miles of here, so doubtless I'm languishing under the shadow of the crescent without knowing it. Although I am drinking Scotch at the moment, so maybe not.
I would have laughed a good deal more at his ignorant, transparently unsubtle propaganda, were it not for the uncomfortable knowledge, in the back of my mind, that some people do actually believe this crap. And if you read through it all, it's a hell of a lot to believe. Chick and his Fundie friends apparently adhere to the very real belief that demons truly exist. Not only that, but said demons are forever lurking in the wings, just out of sight, ready to take over an innocent body or mind that is insufficiently defended. Moreover, they appear convinced that these demons will grant magical powers that actually work to anyone willing to stand in a pentagram in a dressing-gown (c.f. Debbie's successful 'mind bondage' spell in the 'Black Leaf' comic). How do these people sleep at night?
The vast and solid majority of D&D players are very aware that they are indulging in an exercise of fantasy and imagination - which is precisely why they play. The shiny-eyed, happy-clappy types appear to be convinced that...
I blame Cthulhu.
who must have tentacle or is that testic... in this Chick person whose work I am not familiar with at the moment.
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who must have tentacle or is that testic... in this Chick person whose work I am not familiar with at the moment.
Jack T. Chick. He was an evangelist in the early 80s, and his organization is still going. However, he is infamous among gamers for publishing an anti-D&D comic called Dark Dungeons. Many find it funny that in the comic, there are many inconsistencies with real D&D.
You can find all of Jack T. Chick's hyper-religous insanity here.
ah, THAT guy.
Wouldn't it be funny if we took his anti-D&D comix and just went crazy with the theme ourselves? I mean, as far fetched an innaccurate as his contentions are we could just do a version that's Jack Chik on PCP. That would be a great way to make fun of the fearmongers who do their best threaten our harmless hobby, and might actually weaken the impact of sincere future attempts to Villanize us.
Some cute title like: Role Players Will Burn! or Damned Role Players!
If any of you can illustrate, I could completely commit to something like this for some of the writing (though I'm not your chapter and verse guy)
I'd say not to bother wasting effort on Chick. 20-some years late and we have that looney lawyer Jack Thompson running around waging a fool's jihad against video games. Given JT's fragile grasp on reality, I'm sure he'd happily lump D&D in with comic books, rock n' roll and video games.
It's just the nature of human society that such a thing happens in each generation.
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You almost never hear of Shadowrun Haters or WOD Haters. Savage Tales Haters, I never met one. Warhammer Haters are rare.
I'm a Shadowrun disliker (FASA put some good concepts, but their rules blew), and a WOD hater (especially the LARP aspect), and I am a very vocal Palladium hater (words can't express my disdain--it's worse than 2e AD&D DMed by a rabid, lobotomized chimpanzee on methamphetamines carrying vials of nitroglycerin). I've never really been fond of either GURPS or Hero, but I don't actually hate them.
I'm a Shadowrun disliker (FASA put some good concepts, but their rules blew), and a WOD hater (especially the LARP aspect), and I am a very vocal Palladium hater (words can't express my disdain--it's worse than 2e AD&D DMed by a rabid, lobotomized chimpanzee on methamphetamines carrying vials of nitroglycerin). I've never really been fond of either GURPS or Hero, but I don't actually hate them.
now... tell us how you REALLY feel!
:D
It just gets better. All of the endorsements from brain-washed pre-teens who have been able to "Witness!" (or "Witless!")thanks to the unthinkingly dogmatic, racist cartoons of Mr. Chick cannot fail to fill any heart with eternal joy. Provided that the heart in question is extremely facile and mentally defective, of course.
Obviously, playing as much D&D as possible is one of the easiest ways to cock a snook at such ill-informed bigotry. Let's keep those d20s rolling....
It just gets better. All of the endorsements from brain-washed pre-teens who have been able to "Witness!" (or "Witless!")thanks to the unthinkingly dogmatic, racist cartoons of Mr. Chick cannot fail to fill any heart with eternal joy. Provided that the heart in question is extremely facile and mentally defective, of course.
Obviously, playing as much D&D as possible is one of the easiest ways to c*%* a snook at such ill-informed bigotry. Let's keep those d20s rolling....
I can't believe it censored me! What if I'd wanted to C*%* a rifle, or been concerned about the wellbeing of my male poultry (my c*%* is not attending to the hens as he should, perhaps he needs something more in his diet)? I should just have said "bite a thumb" instead....
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I can't believe it censored me! What if I'd wanted to C*%* a rifle, or been concerned about the wellbeing of my male poultry (my c*%* is not attending to the hens as he should, perhaps he needs something more in his diet)? I should just have said "bite a thumb" instead....
I think I'm going to make an obscene head gesture.
Asking c0ck to be content sensitive is more than a program wants to do. Let's just wang our rifles and be schlongs of the walk and all will be right with the world.
Lock and Load; hehe stop by the untitles thread and shoot off a few rounds or stop by Sarns Rant thread and let it all hang out. there just doesnt seem to be a lot to hate about rpgs.
so if you had a soldier and he had a gun, they didnt give you gun stats. You had to give him a power and define it, and set what it did.
Misconception #3.
so if you had a soldier and he had a gun, they didnt give you gun stats. You had to give him a power and define it, and set what it did.Misconception #3.
has that changed?
it was that way in the version i had
I am not sure which version you are referring to. I picked up Champions 3rd back in the 80's and there were gun stats. 4th had stats. 5th has stats. Are you sure it was Champions/Hero?
Back to the OP, I should like to submit mentality 'A' into evidence.
Sir, if you (or anybody else) seeks a deep, robust, immersive game of D&D that does not involve kicking in doors, fireballing goblins, stabbing beholders in the eye, and generally killing (evil) sentient beings and taking their loot, you're doing it wrong.
I am not sure which version you are referring to. I picked up Champions 3rd back in the 80's and there were gun stats. 4th had stats. 5th has stats. Are you sure it was Champions/Hero?
hmm maybe it wasn't hero i had. I've looked online but i cnat find a "repository of covers" or something like that, I could pick it out if i saw it.
And if he wants to stay current, he needs to do a Scientology comic. He's persecuted the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Catholics through selective interpretation. What about those alien possessed celebrities?
He probably doesn't want to get sued. Those folks over in Scientology land have lots of expensive lawyers, time, and money, and they aren't afraid to use them.
yep 4th is the one I had. weird I could swear there wasn't a list. I only had the one book. poor college kid at the time.
ah, THAT guy.
I thought it was a joke... then I thought...
Hey, I've gotten to the Eighth Level and even beyond the Eighth Level and no one's shown me the Real Power so some poor schmoe can buy me $200 worth of books and D&D gear.
I feel cheated.
I will get the page number when I get home to satisfy my own need to verify my facts. As I said there are many misconceptions propagated by second hand accounts or experience with people unfamiliar with the rules.
Hey, I've gotten to the Eighth Level and even beyond the Eighth Level and no one's shown me the Real Power so some poor schmoe can buy me $200 worth of books and D&D gear.
Everyone knows that the Real Power is not revealed until 16th level. Chick is a chump.
Ms. Frost: "I declare you dead!"
Blackleaf: "I declare you a B**ch!"
Why didn't the ditz just roll up a new character. Greenleaf, or yellowleaf? Would she freak out losing a game of checkers or tic-tac-toe? "Not the center square! NOOOOOO!!!!!"
Hey, I've gotten to the Eighth Level and even beyond the Eighth Level and no one's shown me the Real Power so some poor schmoe can buy me $200 worth of books and D&D gear.Everyone knows that the Real Power is not revealed until 16th level. Chick is a chump.
In 4.0 the Real Power is revealed as early as 5th level. Yet another improvement.
You guys are all feebs. Palladium Rifts gives 1st level characters the real power. It's called "m.d.c. weaponry."
Or psionics. Or being a dragon. Or whatnot.
Those who are in-the-know are aware that that only ninjas possess REAL ultimate power.
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So over the "being a vampire would be cool" thing.
You're crazy. Have you looked at the ability score adjustments for a vampire? How can you not want to be one? I mean, gaseous form is kinda lame, really, but if you use CON as a dump stat, vampirism is awesome.
Regarding the Stairway to Hell - I love the opening.
"The devil is using many different tools today to trick young people into riding the fast lane down the stairway to hell."
I didn't know the stairway to hell had a fast lane. I mean, that's pretty cool. Is the stairway also a multi-lane freeway? I mean, I know it has to have a lot of room. Seeing as how I'm a Catholic D&D gamer, I know that's where I'm supposed to go.
I just don't want to be stuck in traffic on the way.
I will get the page number when I get home to satisfy my own need to verify my facts. As I said there are many misconceptions propagated by second hand accounts or experience with people unfamiliar with the rules.
i havent seen it in 10 years or so. O ended up selling it or trading it to someone who could use it.
Incidentally, there is an entire book devoted to equipment for FrED.
In 4.0 the Real Power is revealed as early as 5th level. Yet another improvement.
And with online subscription, this can be reduced even further...
Wait. I thought this was for D&D haters…not 4e haters. Get back in yer own thread!
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DISCLAIMER: german readers reading the following text risk severe diseases. The author may not be held responsible for any infarctions and other consequences!
Here in Germany, there is another quite popular roleplaing game, called "Das Schwarze Auge" (DSA - in english it's "The Dark Eye"). And as it seems you cannot be fan of either system without repeatedly stating your obvious hatred for the other one. So the pure mention of those cursed letters in any D&D-based forum has probably started more flame wars than anything else (definitely more than any alignment-based discussion).
This goes vice versa. For any DSA lover we are dice-loving nerds with no idea what "role"-playing means while for any D&D lover it's quite obvious that DSA fans have no idea that the best campaign setting is screwed if the underlying rules are crappy.
Not necessary to say that I have to come here to an american messageboard to tell you the plain truth: I like them both very much.
So. Said it. And now, where do i have to go in the U.S. of America to ask for political asylum? Just in case that my disclaimer has been disregarded.
;)
He probably doesn't want to get sued. Those folks over in Scientology land have lots of expensive lawyers, time, and money, and they aren't afraid to use them.
And if he wants to stay current, he needs to do a Scientology comic. He's persecuted the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Catholics through selective interpretation. What about those alien possessed celebrities?
True. I wouldn't think that Chick, the pre-Ann Coulter professional troll, would fear lawyers if he isn't afraid of a fatwa or the likely millions of hate letters he gets. But, then, Scientologists don't sue like most plaintives sue.
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Wir mochten dieses Schwartze Auge in Englisch, bitte.
In fact, an english version has been published. Have a look at thedarkeyerpg.com for some basic insights in the rule system and the world of Aventuria.
And thanks for speaking german, that was a nice surprise :)
True. I wouldn't think that Chick, the pre-Ann Coulter professional troll, would fear lawyers if he isn't afraid of a fatwa or the likely millions of hate letters he gets. But, then, Scientologists don't sue like most plaintives sue.He probably doesn't want to get sued. Those folks over in Scientology land have lots of expensive lawyers, time, and money, and they aren't afraid to use them.
And if he wants to stay current, he needs to do a Scientology comic. He's persecuted the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Catholics through selective interpretation. What about those alien possessed celebrities?
hey I've seen southpark, I know what scientologists can do
That chick tracts thing's got a lot worse on it than anti-gaming propaganda. It isn't just d&d they hate, it's imagination in general - among other things. This stuff gives all religion everywhere a bad name, and makes me embarassed to call myself a churchgoer. Anybody who buys into that sort of stuff needs a hard smacking. I volunteer to deliver said smacking personally.
As for D&D haters, among gamers, I find the folks that rapidly support less popular systems tend to be the strongest haters on D&D - probably because it is "undeserving" of its popularity. Palladium is pretty controversal - love 'em or hate 'em type of thing - as is the World of Darkness. I don't really HATE any system, although I like simple percentages (d20, etc) better than bell curves (GURPS, etc) - because as game master I find it harder to stat encounters "on the fly" using bell-curve based success. (I'm sure if I'd been raised on a diet of bell curve gaming, I'd think the exact opposite.)
Finally, somebody brought up Torg (yay Torg!). Somebody else brought up Smurfs (yay Smurfs!). Why noy combine the two with a Smurf Village reality, complete with mushroom stelae and StormKnight Smurf? This 2-D terror could invade any campaign! It's the coolest thing since a pirate ninja rode into town on a dinosaur!
hehe
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Regarding the Stairway to Hell - I love the opening."The devil is using many different tools today to trick young people into riding the fast lane down the stairway to hell."
Stairway to Hell? It's probably some black metal band's idea of a 'tribute' (rip-off) of a classic Led Zeppelin song.
Or psionics. Or being a dragon. Or whatnot.
JEEZUS. Whenever I get together with my non-regular gaming group (the guys I work with at camp), there's always that ONE guy (yeah, Tim, I'm talkin' 'bout you,) that has to be a half-dragon. I have tried (and failed) to coerce him from his path of munchkin-ness, finally giving up in the realization of the futility of my pleading.
"I WANNA BE A DRAGON!"
You almost never hear of Shadowrun Haters or WOD Haters. Savage Tales Haters, I never met one. Warhammer Haters are rare.I'm a Shadowrun disliker (FASA put some good concepts, but their rules blew), and a WOD hater (especially the LARP aspect), and I am a very vocal Palladium hater (words can't express my disdain--it's worse than 2e AD&D DMed by a rabid, lobotomized chimpanzee on methamphetamines carrying vials of nitroglycerin). I've never really been fond of either GURPS or Hero, but I don't actually hate them.
I like Shadowrun, World of Darkness (especially the LARP aspect), Palladium (and 2nd edition AD&D), and GURPS. HERO has some cool stuff, but it isn't really my cup of tea (although Post Apocalypse Hero has me rethinking that). I also like D&D.
Those who want a humorous review of the Dark Dungeon tract should check what mystery science theatre 3000 did with it.
http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/
P.S. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it.
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Those who want a humorous review of the Dark Dungeon tract should check what mystery science theatre 3000 did with it.
P.S. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it.
Your link has been linkified (tm).
Anyway, I originally found out about Dark Dungeons through that site (via the now defunct PlanetADND.com). That MST3K site is funny as hell.
Those who want a humorous review of the Dark Dungeon tract should check what mystery science theatre 3000 did with it.
http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/
P.S. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it.
MST3K FTW! Thanks Salintar! :D