Taking a page from the "My favorite spells thread", what are some of the spells that get the cold shoulder from you or your gaming table in general? I'll start it off with a few:
Bless (A canon spell that I dont think has been used at our table since 3.5 release)
Erase (Never used)
Detect Snares and Pits (We find them the hard way)
Speaking to Detect type spells, the only one that ever sees any use at our table is detect magic.
Other notable spells include acid arrow and (to a lesser extent) magic missile - two spells that have been discarded like an ugly dog once the variety of orb and lesser orb spells became available.
My old cleric wore Bless OUT!! But in my current games, it has yet to make an appearance.
I'm still waiting for solid fog, and just about any combat spell BUT fireball to freakin show up !!
Mordenkainen's Nightmare... er, I mean Disjunction. I have no problem with being so cold hearted as to try and break every single magic item the party has, but by the point they face one of these spells they just have so... damned... many! Imagine locating every single wondrous item, potion, scroll, wand, etc. on your character sheet, inventory, on and on, and rolling a save for each one! Not to mention then recalculating the stat changes when all your ability boosters and magic weapons and armor stop working (or worse... when only part of that array stops working and you have to remember to figure in some items but not others).
My cruelty has its limits.
Blur. The 20% miss chance never seems to matter and, since mirror image is vastly superior (imo) and the same level, it is almost always the 'defensive illusion spell' of choice at that point.
I like Blur. It has a long duration which can last more than one combat and Mirror Image is easily taken care of by a good archer or a Magic Missile spell. I think the differnce is that in a single fight, definately at low levels, it's hard to see the 20% miss cahnce play out statistally. All you need is one fight where it never helped to plant the seed in your mind that it sucks even if the next fight it prevents 3 of 4 attacks.
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I think the differnce is that in a single fight, definately at low levels, it's hard to see the 20% miss cahnce play out statistally. All you need is one fight where it never helped to plant the seed in your mind that it sucks even if the next fight it prevents 3 of 4 attacks.
I suppose you're right that, in a fight against a LOT of opponents, blur would probably help more. By the time you're high enough level to realistically survive a "lot" of opponents, though, you've probably got displacement already. Blur saw a fair amount of use in our games and one time it made the difference between life and death for a character, but I still think that mirror image is the better choice. As for archers and magic missile, the archer still has to contest with the mirror images just like anyone else does and the magic missile would strike unerringly anyway, whether you had blur or mirror image up, though I suppose the magic missile could be split up to take out all of the images in one shot.
Druid "Call Lightning" spell. You have to be in the middle of a storm to use it. When is that ever going to be the case? Unless you manage to finangle a spell that actually summons a storm, and THEN you can use Call Lightning. Useless unless in a very specific situation.
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Druid "Call Lightning" spell. You have to be in the middle of a storm to use it. When is that ever going to be the case? Unless you manage to finangle a spell that actually summons a storm, and THEN you can use Call Lightning. Useless unless in a very specific situation.
They actually fixed it in 3.5, Corey. In 3.0 it required a storm, but not anymore! BEHOLD:
Call Lightning
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Drd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: One or more 30-ft.-long vertical lines of lightning
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).
If you are outdoors and in a stormy area—a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)—each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.
This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.
It's better if you're in a storm, but you don't HAVE to be.
Druid "Call Lightning" spell. You have to be in the middle of a storm to use it. When is that ever going to be the case? Unless you manage to finangle a spell that actually summons a storm, and THEN you can use Call Lightning. Useless unless in a very specific situation.They actually fixed it in 3.5, Corey. In 3.0 it required a storm, but not anymore! BEHOLD:
It's better if you're in a storm, but you don't HAVE to be.Call Lightning
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Drd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: One or more 30-ft.-long vertical lines of lightning
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).
If you are outdoors and in a stormy area—a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)—each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.
This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.
Ooooh, thank you! I am totally rolling this bad boy out next game. *evil laughter ensues*
I think I can officially state I no longer hate this spell. :D
From a DMs standpoint, Web. Arrgg! We have to re read the rules fifteen times over to figure it out and then still need clarification every time it comes up! Drives me crazy!
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From a DMs standpoint, Web. Arrgg! We have to re read the rules fifteen times over to figure it out and then still need clarification every time it comes up! Drives me crazy!
In our games, web is effectively and (usually) instantaneously countered by burning hands. We love webbing a group of bad guys and then dropping some horrible flame death on them, especially since the burning webs deal ADDITIONAL damage! Yay!
I <3 that spell. Sometimes, when one of the PC's items becomes disenchanted by this spell, I'll look it up in the DMG and tell him how much gold he just lost while I laugh at him...
LOL Man, that's cruel... I also love disjunction.
as far as underwhelming spells:
pretty much all 0 levels
the detect spells
contagion
erase
Nystul's magic aura
Tenser's floating disc
magic mouth
ghoul touch
pyrotechnics
halt undead
permanency
there are certainly others that I have forgotten about...
Well...
I'm not particularly fond of Feeblemind, myself.
AKA... your Arcane caster is now totally useless... forever. Or until you find a significantly higher level caster than needed for this spell. Or until you say "Heck with it." and roll up a new PC. Whichever comes first. Until then, it instantly sucks to be you at the gaming table.
Grant you, most other PCs would be severely hurt by this too, but it's a particularly nasty hurtful thing to do to a caster player.
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Well, I understood that second sentence, Pancake, but you lost me with the first.
The dumbest spell ever for its level: Sepia Snake Sigil. I mean, compare this to the other 3rd levels: Gr Mage Armor, Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Fly, Gaseous Form, etc., etc. Generally the 3rd level spells are better than the 4th. So WTF is Sepia Snake Sigil!? Heh, compare it to Explosive Runes.
-W. E. Ray
Least Favorite Spell:
3.x Find Traps.
It is nearly useless for any Cleric.
Shivering Touch, especially with metamagic tacked on. It single-handedly makes any non-Cold Immune dragon a walking trove of EXP and loot. Not only that, it does the same for most anything as time goes on and you can toss on a Maximize.
I mean, really, how many monsters have 18 Dexterity or less and aren't immune to cold or ability damage? That's a pretty good chunk.
Detect Snares and Pits (We find them the hard way)
Same with the group I DM for.
Astral Projection, for the sheer complexity of it.
Honestly, it looks like it should be a seriously bad-@$$ spell, being able to port into combat, and fight with impunity (practically).
But, suppose you're a DM who knows that this spell leaves the PCs with some serious vulnerabilities. Are you going to be that DM who decides to hose the PCs at some point with the "sudden attack on your lifeless bodies" or "githyankis with silver swords cut your cords"? Instant angry players, although the spell suggests that these are some of the "vulnerabilities" that accompany the power of the spell. Too complex, too weird, too difficult to apply reasonably. I'm glad none of my players have put me in the position where I've had to deal with it.
Telekinesis and even Dispel Magic are others, much for the same reason, but don't have as many caveats as Astral Projection, so I'll let those ones go.
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Shivering Touch, especially with metamagic tacked on. It single-handedly makes any non-Cold Immune dragon a walking trove of EXP and loot. Not only that, it does the same for most anything as time goes on and you can toss on a Maximize.
I mean, really, how many monsters have 18 Dexterity or less and aren't immune to cold or ability damage? That's a pretty good chunk.
Any ability damage can hose your bad guys, but yes Shivering Touch is the worst offender.
Add that it is a touch attack, so it can be doubled on a crit, and that it's cold damamge so fire creatures take 2x. It gets ugly quick. As a DM, I'm going to house rule it as a penalty, that goes away at the end of the spell's duration.
Dispel Magic.
The spell is awesome but the whole game grinds to a halt while one tries to figure out what the various opposed checks are. Instead of having to work out what the DCs are for each spell something as simple as a 50% chance of dispelling for each spell. Thats probably pretty close to what the DCs are going to work out to be 90% of the time anyway.
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Add that it is a touch attack, so it can be doubled on a crit, and that it's cold damamge so fire creatures take 2x. It gets ugly quick. As a DM, I'm going to house rule it as a penalty, that goes away at the end of the spell's duration.
Seen this error twice, so I'm going to comment: Fire subtype is +50% from cold, not double. Shivering touch is on my "disallowed" list, I heartily recommend banning lots of stupid stuff if you want your gamesto go smoothly.
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Well...
I'm not particularly fond of Feeblemind, myself.
AKA... your Arcane caster is now totally useless... forever. Or until you find a significantly higher level caster than needed for this spell. Or until you say "Heck with it." and roll up a new PC. Whichever comes first. Until then, it instantly sucks to be you at the gaming table.
Note that break enchantment can fix feeblemind, and is of the same level. Break enchantment is one of the few things that can fix an "instaneous" spell.
For my group, any spell that summons monsters is on the 'no' list. When we're in the middle of a complex fight the last thing anyone wants to do is summon more monsters. Even the DM doesn't care to add more critters to a battlefield like that, especially underpowered ones that don't do more than distract the group for a round or two at best.
For my group, any spell that summons monsters is on the 'no' list. When we're in the middle of a complex fight the last thing anyone wants to do is summon more monsters. Even the DM doesn't care to add more critters to a battlefield like that, especially underpowered ones that don't do more than distract the group for a round or two at best.
Hmm, in my group monster summoning is popular and conjurer is perhaps the most common specialist...
Hmm, in my group monster summoning is popular and conjurer is perhaps the most common specialist...
+1. I'm playing a kobold wizzy right now who specializes in summoning, with the UA specialist wizzy variants, and he ROCKS. We also have a druid in our party, with 7 players, and we both summon the crap out of stuff. 2 weeks ago we had a flock of dire bats, several fiendish, taking on /12 fiendish spiders while we fought the huge 1/2 fiend spider on the ground. THis week I summoned a pack of fiendish apes to surround the BBEG and used an aid other check to add to my telekinesis trip attack :) Of course, none of this would be possible without my DM knowing we would pull crap like that and planning to have WAY too many critters on the board that we can whack :)
I suppose I never use hide from undead because I'm too busy laying the smackdown.
Oh yes. I don't think I have ever seen anyone prepare Hide from undead.
I suppose I never use hide from undead because I'm too busy laying the smackdown.Oh yes. I don't think I have ever seen anyone prepare Hide from undead.
That's funny we use it all the time. If you know your going into an area with undead, it let you get in there and figure out how many and even set up some good positions to lay the smackdown. For a 1st level spell its worth getting the upper hand on undead.
That's funny we use it all the time. If you know your going into an area with undead, it let you get in there and figure out how many and even set up some good positions to lay the smackdown. For a 1st level spell its worth getting the upper hand on undead.I suppose I never use hide from undead because I'm too busy laying the smackdown.Oh yes. I don't think I have ever seen anyone prepare Hide from undead.
Our group seems to love this spell both for the reasons listed above and to save their buts if they are overmatched. The fact that it doesn't allow a save unless the creature is intelligent is great. A while back a party watched as a skeleton that was like 4 CR above them killed their horses but couldn't see them. Morbid, but cool. Oh, and I do seem to have this reputation for killing any animals that may be travelling with the party. Not sure where that comes from... :)
Least Favorite Spell:
3.x Find Traps.
It is nearly useless for any Cleric.
Yes. "You can find traps like a rogue!" Too bad you don't have Search as a class skill. Or the need for a high Intelligence. Oh, but you get an insight bonus to the check! So, you can Take 20 effectively. But, the duration is so short that you can't search much of anything this way before the spell runs out. Hooray!
Oh, and the last sentance is great. "Note that find traps grants you no ability to disable the traps that you may find."
Wonderful.
Web comes up all the time, and it is just too complicated while at the same time pretty much removing characters from combats that can run an hour or more. "What does Rak do? Oh, yeah. Rak does nothing. That's why Wes is playing Nintendo DS. Fun."
Been there, done that, with a cleric of Kord, for heaven's sake. The spell is seriously overpowered, but I think that has more to do with the ludicrous way 3.x handles ability checks than anything. The DCs are often 15-20, but it's near impossible to get the modifiers necessary to achieve those rolls consistantly. So, you not only have the be a fighter or barbarian to have a chance of making the Strength check, you have to be a high level one before said chance is actually good. Or, outside of this context, you can just Take 20 on ability checks, effectively allowing everyone to do it, whether you have an 18 or a 10 in the score. Fantastic.
I remedy this by using a different mechanic for ability checks- your modifier is (Ability score minus 10), so a person with a 7 has a -3, and a person with a 16 has a +6. Is it incrongrous with skill check mechanics? Yes, but I bite the bullet and don't care.
Sorry for the threadjacking.
As a DM I'm getting sick of seeing Heroes' Feast. It wouldn't be so bad except that it nullifies poison. Yeah, I can have all the villians take it, but how many PC's are using poison vs. the number of bad guys using it? In the transition from 3 ED to 3.5 there was a lot of discussion on a spell may be broken if it's a must have for the level. I've never seen a cleric of sufficient level not take heroes' feast. It's also the spell that the players constantly Extend.
Web comes up all the time, and it is just too complicated while at the same time pretty much removing characters from combats that can run an hour or more. "What does Rak do? Oh, yeah. Rak does nothing. That's why Wes is playing Nintendo DS. Fun."
I've got a player who loves to throw webs out all the time. It makes me want to strangle him, especially since he knows I hate the spell and will do anything in my power to get rid of it.
I think Tenser's Floating Disk is really handy! How else will a party get all that loot out of the dungeon? The same with Permanency. If your character doesn't have darkvision, now ya do! Plus you can get all sorts of other things I can't remember.
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Web comes up all the time, and it is just too complicated while at the same time pretty much removing characters from combats that can run an hour or more. "What does Rak do? Oh, yeah. Rak does nothing. That's why Wes is playing Nintendo DS. Fun."
I've got a player who loves to throw webs out all the time. It makes me want to strangle him, especially since he knows I hate the spell and will do anything in my power to get rid of it.
I think Tenser's Floating Disk is really handy! How else will a party get all that loot out of the dungeon? The same with Permanency. If your character doesn't have darkvision, now ya do! Plus you can get all sorts of other things I can't remember.
Oooo! I know one that is particular fun from the PHB2: Legion of Sentinals. Check it out, you'll love it!
FH
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As a DM I'm getting sick of seeing Heroes' Feast. It wouldn't be so bad except that it nullifies poison. Yeah, I can have all the villians take it, but how many PC's are using poison vs. the number of bad guys using it? In the transition from 3 ED to 3.5 there was a lot of discussion on a spell may be broken if it's a must have for the level. I've never seen a cleric of sufficient level not take heroes' feast. It's also the spell that the players constantly Extend.
Yeah, but by that level, can't you just use an area dispel magic and eliminate the benefits from the whole party in one fell swoop? :D
Yeah, but by that level, can't you just use an area dispel magic and eliminate the benefits from the whole party in one fell swoop? :D
That's th standard first round tactic of anyone capable of casting it, but there are a lot more encounters without dispel magic than there are with it. I've only run two 3.x games into levels that high: City of the Spider Queen and Age of Worms. And in both it has surprised me how many high CR encounters involve poison use. It's like they don't expect parties to have it. Even when I made it difficult to come by the loaf of bread component, the players decided it was worth teleporting away and teleporting back in order to have heroes' feast.
Spells I hate:
Glitterdust
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Grease
I was running an AoW party that decided the Bard made a fine primary arcane caster (to be honest, it worked). The trouble is that Fireball is less frustrating to the DM: A fight that ends quickly is disappointing, but is better than just not being able to act. The players had a blast though. So it worked out in the end.
(For the record, I don't actually hate these spells. I just can get annoyed when they show up in every single fight.)
Edit: As a SCAP player, it was fun to use the 1d4+1 monster of lesser level on Summon spells to get Wolves, Fiendish Wolves, or Dire Wolves. Sure, they aren't really going to HURT anyone, but that's a lot of trip attemps. And trip = good times for players.)
Second Edit: I also don't like Astral Projection, for the same reasons listed above. I've never had or been in a party that used it, due to the vulerability and complexity. As a result, I've never had a BBEG or demon use it either, because I don't really know how it works. Plus it sucks as a party to hear 'Oh, yeah. You kicked that mage's ass. Oh, BTW, he was astrally projecting so no loot for you, and you have to hunt him down again.'
This only goes to show that different groups and individuals will gravitate towards different spells. Who said no one uses bless? I use it like it's going out of style.
I suppose I never use hide from undead because I'm too busy laying the smackdown.
Bless is good... but who really is going to use Bane?
The same with Permanency. If your character doesn't have darkvision, now ya do! Plus you can get all sorts of other things I can't remember.
Indeed, but one use of dispel magic and all that precious xp gets flushed down the toilet.
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Power Word Pain from Races of the Dragon is absolutely banned with me.
It's a first level wizard/sorcerer spell that does 1d6 points of damage and then 1d6 points of damage a round for a number of rounds after that. The problem is that the duration has nothing to do with the caster level and there isn't a save. The duration has to do with how many hit points the recipient has -- the fewer the hit points, the longer the duration. So it is lethal with low-level encounters and a minor inconvenience (at worst) at higher levels. The whole spell just feels a bit backwards to me.
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I'm not terribly fond of the various symbol spells. Sure, they make great tools for villains, but for PCs? Virtually useless. How many parties are going to take the time to inscribe a rune (which costs 1000 gold and I think a little bit of XP) that burns itself out after one use AND must be interacted with by the enemy to get any effect out of it. Plus, the effects aren't even that impressive given the rather high spell level that you get them at.
The symbol spells, bane... some spells are intended for NPC use (whether friendly or hostile). Think about the times your party has used hallow on an area. Now think about the times an NPC has used that or unhallow. Quite a bit more, eh?
No, you're PCs might not use them, but just think how nice it is that the spells exist anyway.
The same goes for some PrCs. Think about the last time someone played a blackguard in one of your games. Pretty rare, right? But isn't it nice that the PrC exists in the DMG anyway? (As an aside, I think more players need to realize that not all classes/PrCs are really intended for them so much as they are for the BBEG).
And, by the way, I ran a fight just last night where the cleric used bane. It only worked on one character (rogue forced to use his daggers, which had a terrible attack bonus), but he was significantly aggrivated by it. Thus, I consider the spell a success. :)