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I've played D&D on and off for many years but never played a Cleric before. I know there seem to many others like this out there (I've read through the "Why Clerics Stink" or whatever it is called thread)
I am going to be playing a 1st level Human Cleric for the first time (I'm open to a new challenge :) in a Greyhawk campaign and would like some thoughts etc on how to make him fun and interesting.
Any thoughts on the God he should worship? How about Domains and Feats? Any spells that are a must have (or should I say, must memorize)?
Thanks everyone!
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Decide if you want to play a warrior priest, a preachy priest, or some other archetype, and be consistent with the view. Without the bonus feats of a fighter you have little to spare when making a warrior priest, and turning is weak without a few feat-buffs.
Unless it specifically fits your character perfectly, avoid the healing domain. It is fairly weak, and many of the spells are things you could spont cast anyway.
As for feats, Scribe scroll will make it so you can build up a collection and not need to worry about burning spells. The sudden feats, especially sudden maximize is real handy. Being able to uncork a sudden maximized, sudden enpowered Cure Critical Wounds for 42 + 2d8 gets the job done.
And decide how to use up your turning. If you intend to be an undead hunter, desciple of the sun, enpower turning, and extra turning are good. Otherwise pick one or two divine feats that will be useful in a lot of situations and use your turn attempts every day, otherwise it is like taking an archery specialization ranger and using a sling.
In regards to spells, in general, you should be the buffer and protector first, and the healer after unless there is an emergency. At low levels shield of faith, protection from ..., magic weapon, bless, aid, etc can do a lot more for the party's survival then saving a Cure Light for after the battle.
My collected advise from various sources...
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Good advice - thanks.
A few follow up questions if you don't mind:
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As for feats ... The sudden feats, especially sudden maximize is real handy. Being able to uncork a sudden maximized, sudden enpowered Cure Critical Wounds for 42 + 2d8 gets the job done.
Can you elaborate on what 'sudden' feats are?
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And decide how to use up your turning ... pick one or two divine feats that will be useful in a lot of situations and use your turn attempts every day, otherwise it is like taking an archery specialization ranger and using a sling.
Again, can you elaborate on what divine feats are? I'm thinking these are from Complete Devine, which I don't own but probably should go and buy. Are these the feats that allow a Cleric to use turn attempts to instead 'fuel' some other power?
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Good advice - thanks.
A few follow up questions if you don't mind:
Quote:
As for feats ... The sudden feats, especially sudden maximize is real handy. Being able to uncork a sudden maximized, sudden enpowered Cure Critical Wounds for 42 + 2d8 gets the job done.Can you elaborate on what 'sudden' feats are?
Quote:
And decide how to use up your turning ... pick one or two divine feats that will be useful in a lot of situations and use your turn attempts every day, otherwise it is like taking an archery specialization ranger and using a sling.Again, can you elaborate on what divine feats are? I'm thinking these are from Complete Devine, which I don't own but probably should go and buy. Are these the feats that allow a Cleric to use turn attempts to instead 'fuel' some other power?
Sudden Metamagic. They deffinetly appear in the miniatures handbook, which I do own, and I am pretty sure they are in the complete arcane and complete divine. May be complete mage, I am not sure. Anyway, they are like meta magic feats, accept you don't have to prepare them ahead of time, or adjust spell level. Downside they only work once per day.
As for divine feats, you hit it on the nose. There are some in the PHB2, and some in the complete divine, and I am sure more spread around else where.
Here is a Handy link with a bunch of summary pages, including the feats, descriptions and sources.
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Good advice - thanks.
A few follow up questions if you don't mind:
Quote:
As for feats ... The sudden feats, especially sudden maximize is real handy. Being able to uncork a sudden maximized, sudden enpowered Cure Critical Wounds for 42 + 2d8 gets the job done.Can you elaborate on what 'sudden' feats are?
Quote:
And decide how to use up your turning ... pick one or two divine feats that will be useful in a lot of situations and use your turn attempts every day, otherwise it is like taking an archery specialization ranger and using a sling.Again, can you elaborate on what divine feats are? I'm thinking these are from Complete Devine, which I don't own but probably should go and buy. Are these the feats that allow a Cleric to use turn attempts to instead 'fuel' some other power?
You could ignore all these things and build a cleric with only the core 3 books that is fantastic. The people who hate clerics are playing them wrong or are in a group where they are required to heal someone every round of combat. To avoid this buy a wand of healing, some scrolls, and make each PC carry some healing potions on them. Clerics have great spells but if all you are allowed to do is switch them out for healing spells it gets old quick.
Pick a theme. You want to help people and rid the world of the undead, Pelor is your god. Feel like bringing righteous vengeance upon the ranks of evil, St. Cuthbert has your back. Have an obsession with the realm of the dead, Wee Jas is good for a creepy, "I shall talk with the spirits" type of cleric. These are a few but just decide on what you want your cleric to have for a motivation and a cause and see which god fits.Don't look at prestige classes and multiclassing yet, get a handle on what a cleric can do first and just know this.....a cleric is one of the most powerful core classes (I believe the 3 most powerful are cleric, druid, and wizard, personally).
You can wear heavy armor and shield, so your AC should be right up there with a fighter. You also have a decent BAB, which can be improved quickly with a spell. Jump into the fray!
You also get some cool offensive spells like spiritual weapon, searing light and flamestrike (albeit at higher levels). You also get some cool summon spells to delay the enemies. Cast them!
A well played cleric can out-fight a fighter, find traps, sling offensive spells, summon celestial creatures to aid him, and also heal the less-than-pious of your group.
Have fun. Clerics rock!
FH
re: sudden feats- they are in the various completes, as are most of the divine feats. The first 4 completes really add a lot to charatcer generation, the second set left me kinda meh, but your MMV.
IME as a cleric player, if you want to do something cool, make sure you can do it in the first 2-3 rounds of a fight. After that, people will be looking for healing, which you will of course have to provide. As soon as possible, get the party to pool funds and buy/ commission a wand of Cure light wounds, it'll save your spells in combat. Archer clerics can be cool, and with a humans bonus feat, you can have all the ranged feats you really need (point blank, precise) from the get go. Then get reach spell to cast touch spells as 30' ranged touches, and you can sit back, pelt the bad guys, and keep your party up all day. Bless, Prayer, etc are excellent party buffs, which keeps you from blowing all your buffs on just the fighter or rogue.
I'm no real help on the diety aspect of things. Good luck !!
Cleric of Pelor, with the Sun and Healing domains.
I prefer to take Extra Turning and Improved Initiative for my feats (particularly if you use some of the alternate Turn use feats from Complete Divine).
Contributor
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Cleric of Pelor, with the Sun and Healing domains.
I prefer to take Extra Turning and Improved Initiative for my feats (particularly if you use some of the alternate Turn use feats from Complete Divine).
If you go this route and your DM allows it, take the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC. As far as I can see, it can be taken easilly by a straight cleric of Pelor, and gives you everything you would get as cleric, plus some extra powers. There is no downside.
If you are in an undead heavy campaign, go for disciple of the sun and quicken turning if you can get them.
Like Dragonmann mentioned, pick a role you want to play in your party and stick with it. Also be careful when you choose your domains, they can have a pretty strong impact on the way your cleric will evolute(?)
I am really fond of clerics because they are the one who have the most impact on the party. No the cleric is not able to dish out 30 point of damage per attack (unprepared mind you) like the fighter does. No he is not able to cast as much damage dishing spells as the wizard does. But he is able to cast spells that buff's his companions before combat and most of the times, a combat is won before initiative has been rolled.
If you go this route and your DM allows it, take the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC. As far as I can see, it can be taken easilly by a straight cleric of Pelor, and gives you everything you would get as cleric, plus some extra powers. There is no downside.
Yeah !!! I thought I was the only one (well in my 5 members gaming group)who considered the Radiant Servant of Pelor a good PrC.
Thank you Rambling Scribe, I feel less alone in the world.
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My only issue with recommending Pelor is that for a newbie cleric player, no matter what their other experience, Pelor is a shortwalk down the garden path to playing a heal-bot.
I recently discovered Mayaheine (cleverly enough from the Pelor Dragon article) who is an elevated paladin of Pelor, serving as a demigod. War, Protection, Law and Good domains, and the bastard sword as favored weapon.
If you want a holy warrior, without the paladin's other baggage, it is a great way to go.
In regards to the PHB only version of the cleric, their turning is inherently pretty weak, as by the time you can turn and destroy something, it isn't worth fighting anyway, and normal metamagic is kind of wasted since it is requires prep, and if you use it on healing you loose the spont casting ability.
If you go pure PHB, some good feats are improved shield bash, weapon focus, lightning reflexes, and whatever the prerequisites are for hierophant.
Otherwise the above all holds.
I am going to be playing a 1st level Human Cleric for the first time (I'm open to a new challenge :) in a Greyhawk campaign and would like some thoughts etc on how to make him fun and interesting.
First, find out the alignments and classes of the other characters. As the cleric, you should act as the heart and soul of the party (not necessarily the leader, but that too sometimes), so choosing a deity whose attitude and domains meshes well with the rest of the group makes things easier.
Second, discuss with the DM how common undead will be in the campaign. If undead are common, then the Sun domain and a good Cha are vital (deities: Ehlonna and Pelor). If undead are the focus (like the Age of Worms AP), then Radiant Servant of Pelor and Sacred Exorcist are great choices for prestige classes. Also discuss with the DM how common and influential the various faiths are in the campaign area.
Third, decide on the cleric's combat role when not buffing/healing; also decide what role you want to fill outside of combat. This will help you determine which domains are most useful for the type of cleric you want to play: A "classic" cleric with Healing and Sun domains? A clerical sage with Knowledge and Magic domains? A combat-cleric with Strength and War domains? An undead hunter with the Animal and Sun domains?
Last, choose a deity that works well with the rest of the party, is appropraite to the campaign area, and fits the roles you want the cleric to play.
If you go this route and your DM allows it, take the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC. As far as I can see, it can be taken easilly by a straight cleric of Pelor, and gives you everything you would get as cleric, plus some extra powers. There is no downside.
Yeah !!! I thought I was the only one (well in my 5 members gaming group)who considered the Radiant Servant of Pelor a good PrC.
Thank you Rambling Scribe, I feel less alone in the world.
I don't see how anyone could NOT see Radiant Servant as a powerful PrC! I played beside one for quite a few levels a little over a year ago. I actually think it's too good, and quite overpowered, for the very reason I emphasized in Rambling Scribe's original post. I lump Radiant Servants loosely into the same camp as Frenzied Berserkers: PrCs that are too good, meaning there's no question that you should take it and no penalty whatsoever.
All that said, while it's something I cringe at as a DM, if you (the OP) are playing a game where the DM allows it, take it! You won't regret it.
i love Kord as a deity. he's not overly stringent on the spread my word and all things good. plus its really fun with the brawler flavor. disarm, grapple, trip. imobilize your enemies its fun. especially grappling. cast spiritual weapon then grab a spell caster and just let it wail on him. rogues sneak attack better, they cant cast, get spiked armor and go to town. (sorry im listening to dane cook and lauging too hard to really concentrate so this really doesnt make sense so im done now)
I don't see how anyone could NOT see Radiant Servant as a powerful PrC!
My fellow gamers are not fond of Divine Characters whose ''sole'' purpose is healing. I tend to be the only one who accepts to play the healer in most of our games. My first character was a ranger who had to take the Leadership feat to attract a cleric cohort for our party to have a dedicated healer. We had a druid, but the person playing it was more interested in blasting things rather than healing her companions. Anyways that cahracter died and was replaced by a barbarian, so I had to keep the cleric.
And well, I was not fond of messageboards unitll I discovered this one, so I was not ''confronted'' with the ideas of others untill 2 weeks ago.
General Call: Did anyone ever played a Combat Cleric from Heroes of Battle? If yes, could you share your experience with us (in this thread or another one)
Thanks
I would like to throw the name Trithereon into the ring. God of individuality and liberty (CG). Foe of slavery and uptight faiths. Base yourselves out of Narwell, James Jacobs did an adventure in Dungeon 70-something that could be expanded upon. Narwell is less than a week's ride from Greyhawk and small enough to hail your group as deserving heroes. Trithereon has a strong following here and finding allies to assist in taking on the humanoids of the Pomarj along with their slaver allies would be easy. The liberation and summoning domains would work well. So get started engages orcs and goblins and let the expletives fly.
i love Kord as a deity. he's not overly stringent on the spread my word and all things good. plus its really fun with the brawler flavor. disarm, grapple, trip. imobilize your enemies its fun. especially grappling. cast spiritual weapon then grab a spell caster and just let it wail on him. rogues sneak attack better, they cant cast, get spiked armor and go to town. (sorry im listening to dane cook and lauging too hard to really concentrate so this really doesnt make sense so im done now)
Plus, they can really kick the $#** out of that door!
Ahem...
I recently NPCed my first cleric in a campaign, and it was a learning experience. It showed that clerics are extremely versatile, but require much attention.
For instance, as they have a vast repetoire of spells to pick from--all quite diverse in function--they can be stuck as the "band-aid" of the group for simplicity. However, a clear definition of your character's style of play from the start will make it easier. Need to make you or allies more difficult to hit? Prepare shield of faith. Need your allies to hit more often? Bless.
When I ran a cleric, it was a cleric of Fharlahgn, who is associated with two very powerful domains, Luck and Travel. I say this, as their granted domain abilities are very flexible, and allow for a greater survival rate for your character. She also had Improved Initiative, which gets my vote for best feat in the game.
But, potentially one of the nicest things about clerics is how no two are really the same. Sure, they can swap spells for cure/inflict, but their deities can really define who they are. A cleric of Kord is going to be light years far removed from a cleric of Vecna.
As far as feats go, scribe scroll is an excellent choice, but consider brew potion, as well, as it will let you share your spells more easily with others.
Good luck, and enjoy one of the most exciting and challenging classes in the game.
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Sudden Metamagic. They deffinetly appear in the miniatures handbook, which I do own, and I am pretty sure they are in the complete arcane and complete divine. May be complete mage, I am not sure. Anyway, they are like meta magic feats, accept you don't have to prepare them ahead of time, or adjust spell level. Downside they only work once per day.
Sudden metamagic feats can be found in Complete Arcane.
The non sudden version of these metamagic feats should be described in the PH.Greetings,
Günther