Well, there are about 6 of us writers aiming at making Greed the deadliest... as in the deadliest to player characters in the Rise of the Runelords AP ;) But your question is intriquing. Which, indeed?
Well, there are about 6 of us writers aiming at making Greed the deadliest... as in the deadliest to player characters in the Rise of the Runelords AP ;) But your question is intriquing. Which, indeed?
At least for my players, I imagine Greed will be the deadliest or at least the most tempting; I can just imagine the Runelord of Greed and his minions tempting my players with wealth and magic . . .I seriously do not know if they would resist or not . . .lol . . .it is going to be fun.
Pride. "I'm better than he is, so I deserve..."
This is the easiest one to fall for and underpins ("excuses") all the rest.
Lust is the most deadly in a way, in that it can topple heroes who have overcome all of the other sins. I suppose you could say that about any of them, but I think if you're weak to any of them then lust will also be on your list, whereas even someone like Lancelot, heroic in every other respect, can be tainted by lust.
That doesn't mean lust makes for the most intriguing villainous focus, but it certainly has a way of corrupting do-gooders.
I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.
The seven deadly sins have their own specialty schools of magic, so taken in that context it's easier to pull it off. And as far as Pride goes, you'd be surprised how many PCs I've killed because of an over-inflated ego. Assuming the little monster isn't a big threat, not checking for traps, trying to bully NPCs they assume are weaker than them, etc., can all be symptoms of Pride.
I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.The seven deadly sins have their own specialty schools of magic, so taken in that context it's easier to pull it off. And as far as Pride goes, you'd be surprised how many PCs I've killed because of an over-inflated ego. Assuming the little monster isn't a big threat, not checking for traps, trying to bully NPCs they assume are weaker than them, etc., can all be symptoms of Pride.
>)
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I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.
From the Greek tragedies, the sin of pride, or hubris, is what ultimately causes the protagonist's tragic downfall. Indeed, Hamlet may have been one of the few tragic heroes of Shakespeare's to NOT fall due to his pride, or at least he was the least guilty of that personality flaw.
I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.The seven deadly sins have their own specialty schools of magic, so taken in that context it's easier to pull it off. And as far as Pride goes, you'd be surprised how many PCs I've killed because of an over-inflated ego. Assuming the little monster isn't a big threat, not checking for traps, trying to bully NPCs they assume are weaker than them, etc., can all be symptoms of Pride.
I've squashed the pride of many a player after spending game after game inflating it with praise, honors, and wealth from NPCs. I think pride is an easy sin to sucker Pcs into, they won't even realize it until to late.
I've squashed the pride of many a player after spending game after game inflating it with praise, honors, and wealth from NPCs. I think pride is an easy sin to sucker Pcs into, they won't even realize it until to late.I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.The seven deadly sins have their own specialty schools of magic, so taken in that context it's easier to pull it off. And as far as Pride goes, you'd be surprised how many PCs I've killed because of an over-inflated ego. Assuming the little monster isn't a big threat, not checking for traps, trying to bully NPCs they assume are weaker than them, etc., can all be symptoms of Pride.
Kudos to you, sir! I practice this same form of deception... err, "DMing style" in my own games.
hmm well depends on the context; in America there sure seems to be a lot of gluttony, but a common adage is "pride before a fall" so pride is a big one; sure, wrath is bad, but i think anger is the worst; an angry man is a fool and anger seems to be the only one you can't even work with; you cant do anything with an angry person; best to just have nothing to do with them as they will destroy themselves and everyone around them; so woulds say anger has the most effect on the most number of people in general terms. Not sure what you mean by deadliest; dead is dead and each of them will kill you dead and gone forever.
I'll have to go with sloth, which I think is tied into apathy. Sloth, which quelches any drive, any ambition, any dreams that one has.
All I am saying we as a culture put a large premium on items, I think that often relates to our characters (this is also inherent in the game system). Our PC's want magic, swords, gold, etc . . .this is usually a huge reason they adventure, and even if it is not, it is very rare to find the PC who is not going to fight for his share of the loot.
Greed works as a deadly sin because it tempts the PC's. Do they really want to fight the bad guy, if he can offer them so much more to join him? ANd if they do fight him, on some level are they not fighting him simply to loot his cool staff and the gems embedded in his skin (referencing the Runelord here).
Then again all of the sins are pretty nasty . . .but I truly look forward to the problems the Runelord of Greed can present.
Pc see through a bribe; hehe not in my gaming experience, it has been an amazing trip through self justification; ie pride of pc over the years who have taken the bribe and justified it as the right thing to do; many players over the years have done this sort of thing. it constantly amazes me when they must know that as the gm is the agent of Hubris that this descision is going to have consequences. So was it greed for the item or the sin of pride at self justification that it is the right thing to do which is the key here or is it cowardice, which doesn't appear to be a sin, that they might loose the fact and taking the bride possibly saves some lives; expecially their own and they live to do good another day somewhere else; very pragmatic; pragmatism is the root of pride sometimes. Greed and pride are long time bed partners and very difficult to separate. Both of these sins are based on love of power. In various games the pc are always stuggling to overcome monsters of power which teaches that he who has the greater power overcomes the other; very CE, so he with the greatest toys and the power to enforce his will tends to win. This very fact in gaming is what makes the good feats of not owning anything so very interesting to the game dynamic. Is it necessary for pc heroes to have at least some of the deadly sins to be effective? Sure, sloth and lust are not going to get you very far in a game, but avarice and pride certainly will as will wrath and anger applied to the enemies of those you are saving. Can not most rewards offered by anyone to hire pc also be viewed as a bribe? Certainly, niether side offers full disclosure of details so it is usually at least a big underhanded.
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"Greed is the root of all evil"
I think they've hit the nail on the head with this one. It is obvious, the lure of greed is so blatant, who could fall for it? But people fall just the same. What character hasn't drooled over that "useless" +3 glamered Khopesh of spell storing? That can buy a lot of wands...
Why do almost EVERY adventure-hook lists include the promise of treasure?
One could even argue that all other sins are "simply" specialized forms of greed (the sin of wanting more than you need):
Pride, the greed of self-worth (I want more self-worth)
Lust, the greed of sex (I want more sex)
Envy, the greed of possesion (I want what THEY have)
Sloth, the greed of nothin ( I want more down time)
Gluttony, the greed of consumption (I want more fruit pies, drugs, etc)
Wrath, the greed of revenge (I want punish)
Oh yes, greed is the deadliest. One Sin to rule them all, One Sin to find them, One Sin to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
From the Greek tragedies, the sin of pride, or hubris, is what ultimately causes the protagonist's tragic downfall. Indeed, Hamlet may have been one of the few tragic heroes of Shakespeare's to NOT fall due to his pride, or at least he was the least guilty of that personality flaw.
I think the writers will have difficulty writing for Pride; how do you make an adversary of pride; it seems you make his minions exceptional. Fair enough, but tricky to turn it around and make the PC's too prideful.
I always thought it was fascinating that Pride is classically viewed as the deadliest sin, especially since it can seem like the one that is "least" a sin. As the supposed root of all the others, we're not making pride's magic or role in Thassilonian society any more powerful than the others per say, but we are giving the runelord of pride some perks. The "History of Thassilon" in Pathfinder #1 will lay most of it out.
I always thought it was fascinating that Pride is classically viewed as the deadliest sin, especially since it can seem like the one that is "least" a sin. As the supposed root of all the others, we're not making pride's magic or role in Thassilonian society any more powerful than the others per say, but we are giving the runelord of pride some perks. The "History of Thassilon" in Pathfinder #1 will lay most of it out.
I think the sin of Pride is a legitimately dangerous sin...perhaps more dangerous than the others...and for the following reasons:
Pride leads to the kind of thinking that makes someone view themselves as better than others. And, when that happens, you're more likely to give yourself and your own actions more leeway. Thus, it does become a pathway to the other sins. You can easily convince yourself that since you're the best, you deserve the best. Thus, greed, gluttony, lust, and envy...all rear their ugly heads.
In addition, if you take such pride in your acomplishments that you no longer set goals for yourself...or start to ignore those who are in your charge...then you quickly succumb to sloth. And should anyone question your sinful behavior, the prideful man is quick to resort to wrath in order to deny or punish such claims. Thus, pride is a keystone sin...and a pitfall full of spikes, all corresponding to the other deadly sins...
Secondly, I think classical Greek literature made pride or "hubris" into the ultimate sin, primarily because it threatens to challenge the gods themselves. Pride may start you out thinking you're better than your peers, but it soon leads to thinking you're better than your betters, too. And that very quickly causes your downfall, since the gods will either abandon you or outright punish you for your arrogance and misdeeds against your fellow man.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil