When I was first planning to start Age of Worms last May, I read through all the adventures and saw that it was very important the PCs remain on track, level-wise, or I'd be adjusting adventures constantly. Being a new father, I was wanting Age of Worms to reduce my amount of prep time. So, I did something blasphemous... I abolished experience points!
In our Age of Worms campaign, character level is tied to the story. I have level-up points throughout the campaign. Once the characters reach that part of the story, they gain a level. It doesn't matter how quickly or long it takes to get to that point of the story. Thus, I have absolutely no trouble having to adjust encounter levels.
It should be noted that I am not using any side treks or diversion adventures. We are going full out Age of Worms, one adventure right after the other. So far, this has worked great. All the PCs are balanced, no one has fallen behind or pulled ahead. I am able to keep a "Pool" of replacement characters at the same level on hand in case characters die and need replacement right away, etc.
It was a bit weird to not have XP at first, but the result has been positive. Players seem more attached to the story rather than trying to whack the mobile bags of XP running around on the board!
Thats a very interesting idea. I like it. A lot. With or without side-trek adventures, since the players don't know that its a side-trek at all.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
|
When I was first planning to start Age of Worms last May, I read through all the adventures and saw that it was very important the PCs remain on track, level-wise, or I'd be adjusting adventures constantly. Being a new father, I was wanting Age of Worms to reduce my amount of prep time. So, I did something blasphemous... I abolished experience points!
I did the same thing in my Shackled City campaign. How are you handling item creation? My characters are just reaching the levels where they are considering making thier own items and I was curious how another DM might be handling this.
I'm doing the same for my Shackled City campaign...So how are you handling item creation?
No one in my current group is making magic items right now; however, I've replaced the experience point costs with a craft point cost (from Unearthed Arcana). It really works great because it encourages the casters to actually make items for other characters without penalizing their own.
I'd love to hear more details, as well- I'm planning on doing this with all of my campaigns. As asked previously- how are you handling the XP-dependent mechanics (item creation, death/raising, level drain, etc.)?
For Item Creation, each PC gets a set number of Craft Points per level. Item Creation feats give you even more. Instead of XP costs, I "charge" the characters Craft Points to make items.
I have always hated any effect that removes a level from a character. Not only are you getting rid of the player's cool toys, but you have the hassle of trying to "back track" and take things away. It just isn't worth it. So, I don't have anything that removes a level. Instead...
For death and raising, each PC has a set number of lives (based on the idea of 9 lives). Now, 9 may be way too many for your tastes and depending on the difficulty of your campaign. Set it to some number. The PC can be raised from the dead normally up to that many times; the PC does not lose any experience or Con when he comes back. However, after that last life is used up, there is no coming back. No true ressurection, no wish, it just doesn't matter. It is much easier for the DM because you don't have PCs suddenly dropping in level making you recalculate ELs later on. You don't have to try and figure out how many feats and skills and whatnot to lose. It just flows. And the players love it. You should see how careful they get when they get low on lives.
Level drain poses the same problems. I've never been a fan. To simplify, any negative level that becomes "permanent" is a permanent lost point of Constitution. You can get more Con with additional levels, boosting items and such, but you cannot recover the lost points. This signifies that a portion of your life essence was destroyed by the undead or magic that got you, but again, you avoid all of the problems with PCs suddenly changing levels.
I just started doing the same thing in my AoW campaign, and it's working fine. It's not hard to find a good level-up point within the adventure (rescuing Allustan in AGoW, for example - his first words upon recovery were "welcome to 12th level!").
I thought the players would complain about 'not getting their xp' when they finish an encounter, but it hasn't come up yet.
Interesting idea on raising the dead - I was treating it as a negative level until they hit the next level-up point, but I may switch to your idea, maybe with a permanent loss of a CON point.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I'm doing the same thing in my campaign and in AoW. For crafting, I give points of vis using the Artificer table from Eberron. If you don't have access to that table, a good rule of thumb is 2% of the total xp needed for each level (not just the differential). The pool should be refreshed each level, with all unspent vis lost (keeps players from hoarding).
I also allow vis transfers for crafting, at a rate of 2:1 (the crafting character receives 1 vis for each 2 vis given by the non-crafting character).
Because this system provides greater incentives to craft, you may wish to consider providing more down time and restricting the magic item marketplace a little more. I don't allow items outside the DMG to be purchased, they must be crafted (including DMG items in different slots).
I am considering allowing magic items to be broken down into vix and gp for additional crafting, but have not implemented such a rule as of yet.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
One other note, if you do away with xp, I'd recommend trimming some of the extraneous monster encounters. I'm not sure if the issue is my attention span or the need to cram in sufficient encounters to give enough xp to level up, but I get bored with how many encounters are in an average module.
For dealing with deaths I use an XP debt system. When a character dies the incur a debt of 500*level. Until their debt is paid off, 50% of the XP they receive goes towards repaying the debt. So no one ever looses any abilities, they just slow down a bit.
I have dabbled with such systems before, and they are quite workable. Anything that keeps me and my players from having to regress a character is an option, in my book! With the Adventure Path campaigns so perfectly mapped out, it is very easy to get away from XP at all. When you are running your own adventures, or a series of disconnected published adventures, you have less of an overall picture of where your players are going and when. Thus, XP gains some extra value again. For an adventure series that takes you from 1st level to the end of your career, it becomes unnecessary.
I'm doing the same thing in my campaign and in AoW. For crafting, I give points of vis using the Artificer table from Eberron. If you don't have access to that table, a good rule of thumb is 2% of the total xp needed for each level (not just the differential). The pool should be refreshed each level, with all unspent vis lost (keeps players from hoarding).
Here's a link to the Craft Points rules off of which I've based my system.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm
I really love the idea of abolishing XP from my Age of Worms campaign... and I really like the Death and Level draining rules you have come up with...
My only question is what do you do about XP to cast spells like Wish. I know I saw a variant rule somewhere but do you have a system that works for you?
My only question is what do you do about XP to cast spells like Wish. I know I saw a variant rule somewhere but do you have a system that works for you?
So far, none of my players are using spells that drain XP in the campaign, so we haven't had much chance to try our system out. However, we are trying the use of Craft Points instead of XP. Your Craft Points, in a way, represent your potential to fashion lasting magic, so it does make sense. However, the cost may not be 1 XP = 1 Craft Point, depending on your system of assigning Craft Points (i.e. how much are they worth in your game?).
For now, I'm looking at 10% of the XP cost in Craft Points. So, a wish spell would cost a PC in my campaign 500 Craft Points. Again, I have not tested this in play yet, so take that number with caution.
This change in our game again hinges on my dislike of anything that removes levels from a character. It is just so difficult to do without careful records and doesn't always make sense. For example, the loss of skill points going along with level loss, "I just cast wish, and dang it, it made me forget how to climb a tree."
It is all a matter of taste. Some people enjoy the loss of stats for such events. Me, I prefer to have characters lose potential, not actual, abilities. Cast wish all you want, but when you're trying to craft that big magic item, you'll be hurting. Or, you run out of Craft Points and cannot cast wish anymore.
So far, none of my players are using spells that drain XP in the campaign, so we haven't had much chance to try our system out. However, we are trying the use of Craft Points instead of XP.
I like that. But not as craft points anymore. I think I will change the name (I know, I know... it's just a name) to something like Raw Magical Energy or Magic Pool or something like that.
It is the extra pool of energy that surrounds a spellcaster that can be harnessed for use in crafting or powerful spellcasting. And you're right... when it's gone it's gone. At least until you acheive that next level and you dig deeper and find another well of power to be tapped.
One of the added benefits to no-XP systems is that you can simply skip any encounters you'd rather not play. This has enabled us to move much more quickly through the AP. None of us have ever played at such high levels, and I'd like to see what it's like without spending the rest of my life at it.
I've always wanted to do it, but the opportunity has never surfaced for me. Kudos for being able to implement it in a way that you and your players enjoy!
...For death and raising, each PC has a set number of lives (based on the idea of 9 lives)....
Similarly you could use the 2nd ed idea of System Shock. It was (Please feel to correct me if I'm misremembering) a straight percent chance based on your CON score to if your body could withstand being reconstructed and having it's soul slapped back inside again. It capped out at either 99 or 95%. So instead of "X Free Resurrections" you could have "You have a (CON Score) * 3% of making it back".
Now, if you wanted to make it a little more mechanically interesting/complicated (I can't help it, I'm a Math major), you could give someone a to their System Shock percentage based upon their number of previous resurrections (-10% cumulative penalty?), and have spells like True Res give you a bonus (+30%?), or just automatically set your System Shock to 95%. You could also add in spell features to balance traditionally low-Con characters from ever coming back. Stuff like Death Ward giving you a flat bonus, or a Necromancy Spell that lowers your Con Score or Fortitude save but raises your System Shock dramatically (Duration: Instantaneous). Undead (subject to Revive Undead) could still use their Cha score in place of Con, as is tradition. Maybe use 1 (2, 3) action point to reroll!Huh, I think I'll work out the details and try and implement this next game I run.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I really love the idea of abolishing XP from my Age of Worms campaign... and I really like the Death and Level draining rules you have come up with...
My only question is what do you do about XP to cast spells like Wish. I know I saw a variant rule somewhere but do you have a system that works for you?
I use the term vis, which is stolen from Ars Magica. In Mage, the concept is called quintessence.
Our group has been playing with no XP's for a number of years. I think its been 4. Usually, at the outset of a campaign the DM sets the pace (a level every 2-3 session) or as the adventure warrants it. Right now we are doing the Age of Worms and like the OP I set a point where there is a "level up".
So far this has worked really well and everyone likes it as we stay in the game more and no one does stuff simply for the XP.
As for XP expenditure, what I have my players do is keep track of how much they spend. If it ever reaches their level x 1000 then they lose a level. For example, if the PC is 8th level and they spend 8000XP or more they have lost a level.
So now you may ask how does that player "catch up" in levels with the rest of the group. Well, we have set an arbitrary amount of levels that have to pass before that PC effectively gains 2. For example, Bob's character is 8th level and the rest are 9th. When the PC's reach 10th, Bob becomes 9th. When the PC's reach 11th, Bob reaches 11 too as we have set it at a 2 level penatly. Hope that makes sense. This part isn't scientifically perfect but no one in our group abuses it either so being behind of 2 levels isn't that bad. Other groups may want to change this to 3 or 4 levels as this is more in line with using XP and D&D's level balancing nature.