If a PC tries to cast a spell on an NPC how do you determine if the NPC knows?
And vica versa, does a PC know?
This has come up due to Charm Person.
Thoughts welcome!
Yo the books don't say anything bout that but I'd say that if the Npc being charmed can see and har the pc casting the spell then he'd know, if he passes the test, that something weird happened to him and it came from that pc
If a PC tries to cast a spell on an NPC how do you determine if the NPC knows?
And vica versa, does a PC know?
This has come up due to Charm Person.
Thoughts welcome!
Hi !
In my opinion, if a NPC has to make a save he knows he's just resisted a magic attack. If the source is obvious like the guy making strange hand moves and saying weird things just in front of him, he automatically becomes hostile and very noisy. If the attack was less obvious, I'd make a Sense motive check opposed to a Bluff check from the spell caster if it's in plain sight or a Spot check opposed to a Hide check, if the spell was part of an ambush and cast from a distance.
It's the same for PCs as well. They'd know if someone tries to Charm them.
Hope this helps.
Bran
Yo the books don't say anything bout that but I'd say that if the Npc being charmed can see and har the pc casting the spell then he'd know, if he passes the test, that something weird happened to him and it came from that pc
Would a commoner be aware of magic gestures?
If a PC tries to cast a spell on an NPC how do you determine if the NPC knows?
And vica versa, does a PC know?
This has come up due to Charm Person.
Thoughts welcome!
Try this link ...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050426a
Spellcraft checks :)
People that can't succeed at such checks really don't know what they're looking at. Gestures (somatic components) might suggest who/what a target is, but no more than that.
IMHO :)
Jack
There are actually some rules to help you out:
From he 3.5 SRD - Magic Overview:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
Yo the books don't say anything bout that but I'd say that if the Npc being charmed can see and har the pc casting the spell then he'd know, if he passes the test, that something weird happened to him and it came from that pcWould a commoner be aware of magic gestures?
Would depend on the magic level of your campaign. So possibly not in a low magic campaign but in anything like a standard D&D campaign I would say that they would. Magic is pretty much every where and the common people are going to know that and have some idea what a mage looks like and what they do to cast spells.
Would a commoner be aware of magic gestures?
I'm with Jeremy on this one. I think it's a question of how common the magic is in your campaign. If it's commonplace, then your commoner will know.
Bran
That said, even in low magic level campaign doing strange gestures and muttering arcane phrases will be viewed very suspiciously...just look at the history of our world.
There are feats like silent and still spell to take care of the problem, and I think they should be made more tempting by enforcing the fact that casting spells is considered highly suspicious, especially the ones which have no immediate and evident effect (so of course a smart caster makes a spell which adds some flashy lights or something to his Charm Person spell :) ). Or at least it forces the casters to think a bit how they cast their spells. Spellcraft check is required to actually recognize the spell the person is casting.
Both Ars Magica and Mage have discussed the same subject. In AM casting spells without gestures or magic words gives a penalty to a roll (while very overt gestures and booming voice actually make the casting easier) and getting a visit from Inquisition (or a mob with torches and pitchforks, or fellow mages for bringing disrepute to them) is a definite possibility if you don't behave. And in Mage casting "vulgar" spells can have dire consequences and subtle magic is preferred.
While he may not know from the saving throw success, keep in mind that he may notice the telltale signs of a spell being cast on him, like weird words and finger wagging.
While he may not know from the saving throw success, keep in mind that he may notice the telltale signs of a spell being cast on him, like weird words and finger wagging.
Actually, from the rules it's the opposite of this--he definitely knows he's been targeted with magic if a saving throw is successful...
While he may not know from the saving throw success, keep in mind that he may notice the telltale signs of a spell being cast on him, like weird words and finger wagging.Actually, from the rules it's the opposite of this--he definitely knows he's been targeted with magic if a saving throw is successful...
I would think it would be a K. Arcana followed by Spellcraft since thats pretty much what those skills are also for ?
Knowledge (arcana) will help in actually identifying spells, but simply succeeding on a saving throw alerts the target that it has been "attacked" by magic. See my first post above.
Would a commoner be aware of magic gestures?I'm with Jeremy on this one. I think it's a question of how common the magic is in your campaign. If it's commonplace, then your commoner will know.
Bran
SAME HERE
HELLFINGER -- don't point at me like that!
Sorry, couldn't resist :)