Does the Phantom Fighter feat allow an incorporeal phantom to attack corporeal enemies?


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

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Normally an incorporeal phantom can't attack corporeal enemies with it's slams;

Quote:
Incorporeal: When the spiritualist chooses to manifest the phantom in incorporeal form, the phantom appears within 30 feet of the spiritualist as a ghostly apparition. It gains the incorporeal subtype (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 301), including a deflection bonus to AC equal to its Charisma modif ier. Since it isn’t an undead creature, it takes no damage from holy water or positive energy. Unlike other incorporeal creatures, an incorporeal phantom can’t attack corporeal creatures, except to deliver touch-attack spells using the deliver touch spell ability. An incorporeal manifested phantom can make slam attacks against other incorporeal creatures as if it were in ectoplasmic form.

But with the Phantom Fighter feat, its slams gain Ghost Touch:

Quote:

Phantom Fighter

Your phantom is a deadly foe of incorporeal adversaries.

[b[]Prerequisites:[/b] Phantom class feature, phantom with the magic attacks ability.

Benefit: Your phantom’s natural weapons are treated as having the ghost touch property. In addition, when you cast a touch spell to be delivered by your phantom, you can modify the spell as if you possessed the Ectoplasmic SpellAPG metamagic feat.

And with Ghost Touch, can the phantom now attack corporeal foes?

Quote:
A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature’s 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons and ammunition.

Does this really work?


I would have to read the book, but my question is: is your phantom the equivalent to a manifesting ghost? It is the "manifesting" part that interests me.

If yes, this would work.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I think the intent of the Phantom Fighter feat is that it allows ectoplasmic phantoms (that is, non-incorporeal phantoms) to attack incorporeal enemies as if they had the ghost touch property cast on their slam attacks (and the touch spells they deliver also treated as having the Ectoplasmic Spell metamagic feat).

The reason I think this feat was intended to work this way is that according to the Spiritualist chapter, the only clear-cut way for an incorporeal phantom to attack corporeal creatures is to be a 17th level Spiritualist and have a phantom that possesses the Hatred emotional focus (this gives the phantom a supernatural ability called Shared Hatred). Even then, this high-level incorporeal phantom could only attack corporeal foes that were designated as a "Hated Target".

Therefore, it seems fairly unlikely that one single feat available to any Spiritualist would be intended to short-circuit an ability that you would have wait until level 17 (and pick a specific emotional focus) to get otherwise. Right now, having an incorporeal phantom that could attack corporeal creatures at 4th level would be insanely OP, Phantom Fighter would be the most broken feat in the game if that was the way the feat was intended to work. I could be out in left field, but that seems the most logical interpretation to me (barring any new information from the design team, of course)....


I don't believe so, no. Ghost touch weapons are corporeal weapons that can be picked up by ghosts (in addition to the better known use of damaging incorporeal enemies). It doesn't change an incorporeal weapon's property.

Sovereign Court

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It did seem too good to be intended, but the clause in Ghost Touch made me wonder if they'd slipped up and made something awesome and broken by accident.


Vatras wrote:
I would have to read the book, but my question is: is your phantom the equivalent to a manifesting ghost? It is the "manifesting" part that interests me.

In PF, yes. Since they removed the weird ghost manifesting rules and just have ghosts incorporeal. So... incorporeal creatures should be equivalent. So RAW it should work. But I'd say it's not intended.


Milo v3 wrote:
Vatras wrote:
I would have to read the book, but my question is: is your phantom the equivalent to a manifesting ghost? It is the "manifesting" part that interests me.
In PF, yes. Since they removed the weird ghost manifesting rules and just have ghosts incorporeal. So... incorporeal creatures should be equivalent. So RAW it should work. But I'd say it's not intended.

Manifesting text aside, it still doesn't work because Ghost touch has no effect on incorporeal weapons.

RAW doesn't allow you to remove the surrounding text that provides context or the specifics of the phantom feature.

1. Phantoms can't attack corporeal creatures in ethereal form.
2. Ghost touch allows weapons to deal damage to INcorporeal targets (very first line of the ability description). Full stop.
3. The ghost touch description then goes on to explain how an incorporeal creature can wield/carry/move a ghost touch weapon. Full stop.

Nowhere in the description does it say an incorporeal phantom with a specific restriction (other incorporeal creatures like ghosts don't need ghost touch to attack corporeal creatures, by the way) can attack corporeal targets with its still-incorporeal slam attacks.

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