We played MERP back in the late 80's and it was okay. Later we played AD&D 2e in the same setting. It was fun, but it's very hard to recreate the sense of high fantasy wonder that is the hallmark of ME. D&D just doesn't lend itself to ethereal, high brow fantasy unless it's very carefully adjusted. We still had fun, but it was more like "middle-earth flavored" AD&D.
I ran a kinda-sorta MERP game way back in the '80s; the problem w/ ME as a setting is that the big story has already been told, really. Unless you're playing an alternate-universe version where your players have a chance to alter the course of history, or a post-Rings game where Sauron is gone and Aragorn/King Elissar is "mopping up" the remnants, there's not actually that much for players to DO there, other than go sightseeing.
-The Gneech
I am currently involved with an ICE MERP game. It is set in the time period a couple hundred years before the one ring is found. We are currently wandering through Mirkwood, fighting the minions of the Necromancer (Sauron in disguise) and having a great time at it. The system does not allow a lot of flexability, but it is still fun.
I ran a couple of quite long MERP campaigns - one set in angmar (a sort of 'robin hood in ice and mountains') and one in the grey mountains (a year by year campaign that spanned about a century in all) - they were good fun but in the end all that rolemaster mathematics took over from play when the PCs reached higher levels.
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My question: anyone play the Middle Earth Setting and what did you think of it?
The MERP/Rolemaster supplements are, in my opinion, the best ones out there. That said, I agree with F2k that it becomes difficult to adapt other game systems to the ME setting once it becomes clear that your players do not want to play Rolemaster...
I DMed a two-year D&D Angmar campaign, which worked quite well as I had a set of low-magic, slaphappy PCs who enjoyed sneaking around in the hills while slitting orc throats - a party of five Rangers and a Druid! I'm less certain that other ME realms would work well with D&D, but if you can fit it in, let us know!
Played MERP a lot, but found the D&D system a bit too flash for the setting, especially when it came to magic, which is too easy and too showy and lacks the consequnces it bears in Middle Earth. Got the Decipher Rules and was toying with using it with my MERP material, but may just hold out and try the New Runequest instead. Has anyone tried the new Rules?
I played MERP a few times years ago. My character slipped on his glaive and disembowelled himself. MERP is the answer for anyone who thinks the D&D combat system lacks precison damage allocation tables for critical fumbles...
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I played MERP a few times years ago. My character slipped on his glaive and disembowelled himself. MERP is the answer for anyone who thinks the D&D combat system lacks precison damage allocation tables for critical fumbles...
Oh yeah! Rolemaster was great for that sort of thing - especially the high-roll critical misses. You gotta like the one where you gruesomely tear a groin muscle and flop to the ground, while your opponents AND FRIENDS spend the next three rounds laughing at you. C'mon, guys!
Actually, Spacemaster had the nastiest crit tables. The critical misses with the flamethrowers and plasmatic repeaters tended to get rather awful...
Rolemaster and Spacemaster were lethality itself when it came to Crits and Fumbles. By the time they added Hit Tables for Starship weapon implacements against PCs, it was just gruesome. The Rolemaster idea of a modular system that could be mixed and matched for varying complexity has ended up being ahead of it's time.
As far as gaming systems went, I hated Spacemaster. Get hit by a stunner, you die...after torture of several rounds when you keep getting more and more rounds of stun while your hit points are slowly pilfered away. Space Master is the root canal of RPGs (Rolemaster was workable...)
I ran a kinda-sorta MERP game way back in the '80s; the problem w/ ME as a setting is that the big story has already been told, really. Unless you're playing an alternate-universe version where your players have a chance to alter the course of history, or a post-Rings game where Sauron is gone and Aragorn/King Elissar is "mopping up" the remnants, there's not actually that much for players to DO there, other than go sightseeing.
-The Gneech
I agree with you - that´s a general problem I see with using settings like Middle Earth and Star Wars - the Big Story (TM) has already been told. Unless you play far removed (either spatial or temporal) from the main story, there is not much to do, and then, what´s the point to it if you miss out the main story ?
Stefan
Oh yeah! Rolemaster was great for that sort of thing - especially the high-roll critical misses. You gotta like the one where you gruesomely tear a groin muscle and flop to the ground, while your opponents AND FRIENDS spend the next three rounds laughing at you. C'mon, guys!
I remember a fumble from MERP: "You stumble over an dead, invisible turtle. This confuses you so much that you lose the next action. " or something like this. Talk about cheesy rules...
The "Rolemaster Light" rules from MERP did not catch the spirit of the setting adequately, IMHO. I played it back in the late 80ies, but would probably not touch it today.Stefan
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I used to play MERP a fair bit in the 80's. I generally enjoyed it, and the sadism of the critical tables added to the fun.
Re the problem with the setting, the default period was round about 1600 Third Age, when Sauron was just returning and the Nazgul were coming back. I don't really think it was a problem that the "main story" was over a thousand years in the future - you could still have fun thwarting machinations of the Witch-King. That period is sort of outlined in the LotR appendices and gave plenty of scope. And they also did a series of rather good supplements dealing with areas "off the map" to the far south. These were rather good fun, and I suppose didn't have to be "canon" in the same way, and granted much more freedom of action - but, of course, were further away from the "core" Middle Earth experience. I suppose it depends on taste.
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The "Rolemaster Light" rules from MERP did not catch the spirit of the setting adequately, IMHO. I played it back in the late 80ies, but would probably not touch it today.
Stefan
ME (at least in the Third Age) is a pretty low magic setting. Rolemaster didn't really pay much attention to its magic system (just lists of generic spells gradually increasing in power) so in a sense it is more in keeping with ME than D&D, but probably still overpowered for the displays of magic which actually take place in the books. Probably Iron Heroes (which, to be fair, I only know by repute) might be a suitable system for a d20 ME game. Any views?
Yup, Rolemaster and MERP were created relatively early when all the fantasy games were supposed to have magic systems as prominent as D&D. Never mind the fact that Middle Earth is rather low-magic world (at least as far as mortals are concerned).
And as many have pointed out, LoTR would have been rather short book if Rolemaster rules (and NPC data for Gandalf et al) was applied: Gandalf teleports Frodo to Mount Doom, Frodo dumps the ring, general rejoicing ensues.
Yes, we played in Middle-earth for years & loved it. Hands down, one of the richest & most rewarding fantasy settings.
We played D&D, AD&D & AD&D 2nd. as each incarnation of the game evolved, as well as a little bit of MERP. The other posts are right on concerning the latter. MERP is a great system if you like that type of minutia in your battles, however, for all of their beautiful modules & maps, they never quite captured the "feel" of Middle-earth, IMHO.
We tweeked D&D & it seemed to work just fine, IF you modify the magic & such accordingly. That's where you run into problems, IE: if your players love the rules verbatim & enjoy power-gaming, metagaming, et al, whichever terms apply, they may not enjoy the restrictions if you try to keep things canon & reduce the magic to a more Tolkien like feel.
It all depends on how close you want to keep things to the books. Accurate games probably mean eliminating some D&D staples, & some gamers may not feel comfortable with that. We always tried to keep things as close as possible, & I continue to do so as a DM today.
That said, it's a blast if you want to develop detailed plots & characters full of life. We began in T.A. 2941 (that's the year of The Hobbit if you don't have the books handy) & progressed through the War of the Ring. Man, it was fun! We were in the North & had to battle Sauron's (& after his treason, Saruman's) minions in their attempts to reestablish the old Witch-realm of Angmar. Some of the best adventures I've ever had the joy of DMing/playing.
I've been spending a lot of time attempting to convert 00 of pp of plots, NPCs, notes & such into 3.5 & am just finishing up (it's tough when you also want to have a life LOL ) & am now searching here, the WOTC boards, etc., for gamers in NOVA who want to play 3.5 in Middle-earth.
We're now in F.A. 1: three years after the war & Sauron's fall. It's kinda cool cause there are possibilities about surviving servants of the Shadow who escaped & are plotting & scheming...
Probably Iron Heroes (which, to be fair, I only know by repute) might be a suitable system for a d20 ME game. Any views?
Iron Heroes combined with Green Ronin's True Sorcery system might make a workable combination for d20 Middle Earth. True Sorcery makes magic much more unpredictable and less formulaic and you can easily restrict the whiz-bang spell effects to make it more tolkienesque. It's a good option for spellcasting for any game system, actually. (It just takes a lot of work)
Gror---your game sounds like a lot of fun. You've obviously put the necessary work into it to make it work, which is commendable.
We're now in F.A. 1: three years after the war & Sauron's fall. It's kinda cool cause there are possibilities about surviving servants of the Shadow who escaped & are plotting & scheming...
When I DM, I use a 4th age M.E. setting. As Gror said above, the possibilities of "so what happens NOW?" are endless, and my world has evolved into something quite different from what Tolkein fans would recognize. It doesn't have a "Tolkein" feel in that there are many more shades of gray... but I LIKE shades of gray and so do my players, so that's why they're there. Also, before the movies, I was the only one in our group who had read the books and knew the story, so I could pretty much do what I wanted without argument.
I use the ICE books as reference, and I've NEVER seen wilderness maps better done than what ICE put out (interior maps are another story...Nazgul Citadel gave me fits), but we use AD&D rules in play.
I played MERP a long time ago. It was my very first roleplaying experience. When we realized the constraints put on us by playing in ME the DM went pure Rolemaster in his homebrew setting. I love crits and to this day love Rolemaster.
Having said that, and reading the other posts about crits and fumbles, I must ask if anyone has played Rolemaster Western?
Crits in Western can be hilarious! We were outlaws who just started killing people because it was freaking funny to roll crits in there and we started off poor with only 4 rounds for our revolvers. Anyway, we were being surrounded at a brothel so one of my friends told another friend to go upstairs and slash all the faces of the women. He rolled a crit on one and it said she was stunned for 30 years :p
I played a lot of MERP and AD&D 2nd Ed. in Middle Earth and recently a lot of Neverwinter Nights on my PC on a server called MERP UK (which I strongly recommend everyone who enjoys NWN and ME!) and I agree with all problems posted here.
D&D's magic system is just not so ideal for that setting as for example Gandalf, one of the mightiest beings in Middle Earth is not able to fly, to throw fireballs and to teleport (...), so this would really need attention when playing in the Third Age.
One possible solution for this which would also avoid the collision with "The Book" is a first age setting, taking place during the Quenta Silmarillion. There you can find all kind of veritable "epic" characters. The first age isn't as low on magic as the third and the Silmarillion leaves way more room for the DM's interpretation and imagination.
For those (players) who have not read the Silmarillion but enjoy LotR this also would grand a nice "step by step" approach towards Middle Earth history and the backround of the War of the Rings. By asking your players not to start reading the Silmarillion before the campaign is finished you could really create thrilling plots.
I have plans to start a campaign like this. The only problem is the whole science the Silmarillion is. There's just so much in this book, you can hardly keep all those names and people in mind. But your players can't neither so that's no problem ...
farewell2kings wrote: “Gror---your game sounds like a lot of fun. You've obviously put the necessary work into it to make it work, which is commendable.”
Thanks! You can always tell when someone loves & appreciates Middle-earth. Yes, we've had a blast over the years & I look forward to many more. It's a great setting with so many RPG possibilities.
Tiger Lily: I can’t agree more with you concerning the interior maps, especially Nazgûl’s Citadel. Argh. They also drove me nuts & I sold my module. Ditto for most of ‘em. Some of the other maps are classics, however, especially the ones for Cirith Ungol & Shelob’s Lair.
If any of you are interested in a couple of great Middle-earth RPG sources, the postings on here concerning Decipher's LOTR are correct, & it's a great system, though a shame that it died so quickly. Nonetheless, pop over to their website if you get a chance & go to their LOTR RPG board & look for the links to the Hall of Fire (HOF). HOF is a fan generated webzine by Gandalf of Borg, AKA Matthew Kearn, & it's produced with TLC.
He lists it every month on his link as a pdf, it's free & very accurate to Middle-earth. While you can't use the crunchy bits as much as you'd like if you're using D&D, as most of us presumably are, you can easily use the characters, plots, settings, etc., for D&D without any problems. It's a great source.
Another is the old Enworld D20 conversions for Middle-earth, which you can still find buried on their boards if you dig around. Some great goodies.
The Hall of Fire website is: http://halloffire.org/
This is an incredible source for gaming in Middle-earth, & I have no problem converting the characters, sites, etc., to D&D.
Good stuff:)
The Hall of Fire website is: http://halloffire.org/
This is an incredible source for gaming in Middle-earth, & I have no problem converting the characters, sites, etc., to D&D.
Good stuff:)
Oooh, this bears investigations!
BTW, I'm in NoVA myself. Drop me a note sometime if you're looking for a player.
-The Gneech
Hey The Gneech (John)!
That sounds like a great idea. I tried to contact you, however, am unable to on here for some inexplicable reason, so if you want to discuss Middle-earth gaming please drop me a line or leave your email & we can talk about getting some people together in our area. It sounds like an exciting idea:)
If I get a chance I'm going to try to place a post over at the WOTC board for gamers as well.
BTW, I read some of your other posts & your cracks about the Elves & such give me a chuckle-well done!
Grór (Mark)
Hmm ... I don't see an easy way to send messages here either, now that you mention it. Toss me an e-mail at thegneech@gmail.com. :)
-The Gneech