Ok, I will start out by saying(typing) that I have no grudges. It will make sense in a minute.
I was at the pool today with my friend/DM, and he brought up an intresting question. One of our previous friends had left us a long time ago. It all started about a year ago......
So we were playing, like usual, and generally the PCs would be me, Robert, and DM's little brother. Robert is the main character in this post. He and I were good friends, though he had a few flaws as it comes to playing D&D. For starters he was very uncreative, he liked Dritzz knock-offs. He was always a fighter(nothing that wrong about it) but he would also try to act like the cool fighter that is lonely and would sit in the corner while everyone else cheered after a long kraken victory(long story). Even so, he was pesimistic(did I spell that right?) and mean at times. Still though, he was my friend, and I could ignore these. And for all you wondering, yes.....he was munchkiny. Still it was all fine and dandy. But... after he tried to kill me things went a little south. Me and my first character lvl 14 sorcerer at the time were in shock.
We were fighting this really powerful vampire, and I was paralyzed by something(can't remember what) and he had been planning to become a vampire. So after a long time of asking him very seriously to not kill me he finally gave up on it. I was blown away by that moment. A few months after he says to me "Greg, don't tell anyone but I plan to quit." I didn't, he quit, and the worst part was that I had as a player and person always been nice. NOT ONCE HAD I REFUSED TO MAKE AN ITEM WITH THE ITEM CREATION FEAT AND NOT ONCE HAD I DARED TO THINK ABOUT THE XP AND GP COST!!!! And he quit and threw it all away! I held no grudge but was quite angry, though my other D&D friends did hold a big grudge for a long long time. Do you want to know why he quit.....do you? I'll tells ya...he was too popular, we were apparantly going to blab it out to the entire school, he got a girl-friend. That is what popularity does to you, it's corrupting, but no i'm not the nerd that no ones likes i'm also not the most popular person in town. We weren't going to do any of things and every time my friends have wanted to I told them that it's not right even if he did betray us.
Now back to present. Yesterday he called me and asked "Hey Greg, would you know where Vincent(DM) would be." And knowing him and how close he lives to a pool, he was most likely either baby-sitting or swimming. I told him and he had already called DM. He asked if we were still playing D&D, and after I said yes he seemed quite happy. He's probably coming back from boredome or just wants to play. My DM is very suspicious and is still deciding weithier we should let him play or not. Robert can be annoying, but we could use some more PCs and some times it was actually fun when he was playing with us.
I'm gonna wrap this up in one simple question, to let or not to let him come back? What do you think, and why/why not. If you say yes than what would you do to solve these problems? I'll look forward to checking back on this.
~Flabulator OUT!
My motto is very Sicilian: Forgive but never forget. Now that your group knows what he's capable of you can prepare for it. Take a vote on whether to let him back in. If the vote is 'yay' then force some kind of a public promise from him along the lines of "I will try not to be such a deuschbag in the future."
This is also tough when you consider he was once my first friend in 1st grade and wanted to dis us cause he became, well.... cool.
This is also tough when you consider he was once my first friend in 1st grade and wanted to dis us cause he became, well.... cool.
I thought you met him sometime in 3rd grade. Oh well, good thing you decide and none of the pressure is on me. I just made this post to help you out with the decision. Still what would everyone else do?
~Flabulater OUT!
I just can't get over the shock that your name is Greg! Where did that come from?!? You'd figure there would be a little bit of foreshadowing or something.
Let him play. Another friend at the table is a good thing.
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Let him play.
Males do silly things for females; you gotta be a good wingman and back off if he needs you to. Males gotta side with their females irregardless of what their friends think, it's just the way stuff is and THAT will never change.
Seen the whole thing before; I had a guy go too cool on me in 9th grade. AFTER college he was calling me up wanting to get a game up, but...minus the details... my people and his people at that time weren't the best group of people to mix together at a gaming table; no good coulda come of it.
And anybody tells you D&D isn't cool, one of the coolest people I ever met plays. He was in the U. S. Army airborne, could do 30 one-armed pushups, and he had girls coming up to him asking him for his number who knew who he was and he never saw them before in his life. And he could beat me like a rug if he wanted to, but I wasted him at chess, and he gave me an ounce of respect.
None of that crap means anything after high school anyway.
And another thing-learn as much about computers as you possibly can. I knew this kid from my karate class and in college, him and some buddies made something called "google" in their garage, and now...he never has to work a day in his life ever again if he doesn't want to. Granted he was a genius anyway, and I doubt everybody will get that kind of opportunity in their lifetime, but the more computer stuff you know, the better your chances will be. Some old guy told me that when I was in 10th grade, and I thought he was just a goofy old guy, but he really knew what he was saying, man.
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People generally suck. Everyone is different and has different views/morals/ideals. I have maybe 2-3 actual friends. Everyone else is just people who tend to be around more often than strangers. I found that judging people with a standard applied to your own life usually leaves you jaded. I can't be friends with people who lie, bully, cheat on spouses, etc because I find those and other acts unacceptable. That said, you don't HAVE to be friends to be gaming buddies.
A friend will lay his/her life down to save you, a gaming bud will lay his character's life down to save yours'.
I feel a great closeness to many of the people on this board. Are they friends? Sort of. Are they gaming buddies? Damn straight and I love em for it (even if we never gamed together).
I'm rambling. Sorry. Let him play. I dropped everything when I found out girls would let me.......ummmm....play with them:P Who knows maybe he is growing a personality through his new found coolness. Might mean more roleplaying.
Let him play, you only need to be gaming buds. If a friendship rekindles, good. If not, you have a gaming bud.
FH
I'd blow him off. There is a saying:
"As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool returns to his folly."
I'd say the chances are that while he may want to come back now, he will probably try to bail again later. I would ask for some sort of oath or promise that he not bail. I have been in this situation before, and in my experience (at the High School level, at least) he is very likely to goof up again and leave you guys high and dry. I might tell him he can play- if he brings his girlfriend.
Anyways, I'd rather teach a new person to play than allow him back in.
To err is human, to forgive is divine. We all make mistakes, give another chance. Life is too short to hold grudges. I've bailed (as a DM) mid-campaign because I got burned out and disappointed my players, one of which I was married to. They forgave me and let me try again.
PS: I was cool once, then I got better.
I'm assuming that you're in, at most, high school still. You, your friends, and everyone else around you will do nothing but make stupid mistakes constantly. Half the time you won't even know how dumb you are being because no one around you will realize it because they don't know anything either. So this guy was dumb... so what? You seemed more upset about losing the items you created for him than the player to begin with, so at the very least some introspection is needed on your part.
In any event, people grow, people change, people make mistakes, and people learn. Put yourself in his shoes and imagine how you'd like it if none of your mistakes were ever forgiven.
PS: I was cool once, then I got better.
I don't think I have ever been cool - but I've been able to do a lot of cool stuff.
I'm a little unclear on details -- did he stop playing D&D or did he stop being your friend (at school also).
If he stopped associating with you completely, ditch him. It's not a grudge, he just doesn't really like you.
If he just stopped playing, let him back. That said, I'm not his playing was fun for the rest of you -- think about that.
My two cents,
Jack
I'm a little unclear on details -- did he stop playing D&D or did he stop being your friend (at school also).
If he stopped associating with you completely, ditch him. It's not a grudge, he just doesn't really like you.
If he just stopped playing, let him back. That said, I'm not his playing was fun for the rest of you -- think about that.
My two cents,
Jack
THe hardest part was that he even denied being friends with us in fear of being caught playing D&D. That hurts... So I'm worried that he only wants to play because it's summer and he doesn't have all his school buddies to hang around all day.
I do think though, I may give him at least one chance...maybe.
well. i <i>am</i> cool. ^______^
and i love dnd. *ahh that feels so good to say that*
I had to tell my girlfreind that I played Dnd when she came round to my place for the second time.
she lol'd but got over it pretty quick. as far as i know, all the girls in highschool are crappy. all the things that make a girl interesting happen in maybe the second last year, usually not. more often after HS.
yeah sure they have all the curves and other lovely things (which are fun to ... 'play with') but the things that truly delight you about a woman girl come later. tell him that unless he can handle him having a geek freinds then he really shouldn't be hanging out with you.
i did some idiotic things for girls in high school.
i gave up a girl for a really good freind, (he really liked her) and in turn when the situation came round again i f+%+ed that really good freind over for another girl.
the clincher is that she ended up cheating on me with him.
and then later told a few people that he raped her.
him and i both came from the romatic school of IF YOU EVER HURT A GIRL YOU'LL GET STRUCK BY TEN TONS OF TERRIFIC LIGHTING. he can't even hit his dog.
so, really..
him and i were expatriots living in hongkong (newzealand and australian/american respectivly) and right after the whole escapde we both went off to finish our high school in Zealand and Aus. and we didnt speak for .. prolly 2 three years.
last year he moves to my city and we got to talking again.
we forgave eachother wordlessly.
let the guy back in.
but for goodness sake give him another fantasy/scifi novel other than drizzt.
and drizzt stopped being emo at the end didn't he? eh whatever.
try "book of the new sun" trilogy. similar dark hero theme, but a more interesting slant.
wow,,.. i havent read any good fantasy for a while now.
a freind of mine is an aspiring author so most of my reading energy is splitt between art journols, DND mags and his constant stream of novelas. O_O
neuromancer is good. ther may be a few ideas in there. bit dated now (lol 4 megs of stolen RAM)
anyways... uh.. yeah
let him back in.
ramble.
THe hardest part was that he even denied being friends with us in fear of being caught playing D&D. That hurts... So I'm worried that he only wants to play because it's summer and he doesn't have all his school buddies to hang around all day.
You've had a long time friendship with this guy, and I'm thinking it's really a bit more than just a question of whether he comes back to your gaming table. As someone else pointed out, there's a difference between gaming buddies and friends you game with and it's clear this guy fell in the latter category. So at this point, you have a decision to make that goes beyond who's sitting at your gaming table... it's how you're going to define the way people get to treat you.
If it was me? I'd sit him down and say, "Dude, what you did was cold. We've been friends for a long time and you flat out denied me because you wanted to save face. I didn't deserve that, and I still don't. So now, I want you to tell me why I should believe that it won't happen again?"
Yeah, my circle of friends (true friends, not gaming buddies) is pretty small. But I trust each of them, and know what to expect from them, and they know what to expect from me. And most importantly, we treat each other with respect.
If it was me? I'd sit him down and say, "Dude, what you did was cold. We've been friends for a long time and you flat out denied me because you wanted to save face. I didn't deserve that, and I still don't. So now, I want you to tell me why I should believe that it won't happen again?"
yup. i'll second that speach
I know how you feel.. a similar thing happened to me5 years ago... I was the DM and the group included my brother and 3 more friends. One of them was the ONE who almost screwed everything..almost...Well, what happened was that F , even though our neighbor and 'friend'had always been snob and he was the 'spoiled brat' of the neighborhood. And according to my brother, when F was walking with his other friends he pretended not to know us..as if we didn't exist..He never did that to me b/c I was the oldest one and i guess knowing an older guy, to him, was good to his status...whatever... The worst was when in a battle, his druid got blind, and he totally lost interest and got really pissed... I didnt have any time to do something b/c he just left my house..and never came back...(well, thats what I thought) ...ill continue this later cause i really gotta go now..
I'm a little unclear on details -- did he stop playing D&D or did he stop being your friend (at school also).
If he stopped associating with you completely, ditch him. It's not a grudge, he just doesn't really like you.
If he just stopped playing, let him back. That said, I'm not his playing was fun for the rest of you -- think about that.
My two cents,
Jack
He is still my friend and even after those events he and I still met at each others houses to just hangout. I don't think I will ditch him. Thats as long as he doesn't talk or completley ignores me. So I only lost a gaming buddy not a friend, and that is what made me OK with it. Still though I understand why he left and what'not. I promise and swear on my life, I would never tell about him playing D&D to anyone because I know what that would do to his "Rep", if he chose to tell his girl-friend than i'm alright with it. It is his decision after all, but I have no reason to. It's that after he broke up with her(2-3 weeks) he still didn't apologize for not trusting us. Nor did he come back to playing D&D, still i'm fine with that. Even if he isn't a gaming buddy he is still one of my friends and that I am glad for. I just wish he had trusted us... I hope he wants to play again, and I hope he will play again as long as he doesn't leave or ditch us. I'm just worried he will do it again, still though I am glad he is my friend even if he isn't my gaming buddy.
~Flabulater OUT!
oK, so, about that kid(F) who got really pissed off and left my house for ever:
A year after the incident, our relationship with F was worse than ever. He was bullying my brother at school, making fun of the other players of our group, and running away from me everytime we met, afraid that I would beat him up, especially when he started bullying my bro(he wasn't wrong about runing away after all) But one day he realized that it was time to come back, and he asked if he could play again....
The whole group was concerned about letting him play again, but we needed a player and, even though he wasn't a good player at all, we decided to forgive him(but I didn't forget)
What happened after that was even worse. F was back but the group wasn't the same at all. The other players did not trust him like they did before. Even the best roleplayers had trouble roleplaying their characters after that. With some time, though, iyt all became good again.
Until one day they had a stupid arguiment and we decided that he wouldn't play D&D with us anymore, unfortunately.. The thing is, I knew that that was gonna happen but i let him rejoin b/c i had a lack of players in that time...So, my advice to yu is, if this guy is not your friend at all, then at some time the same thing will happen, but if he still hangs out with you or is your friedn I would give him a second chance..
I'm a little unclear on details -- did he stop playing D&D or did he stop being your friend (at school also).
If he stopped associating with you completely, ditch him. It's not a grudge, he just doesn't really like you.
If he just stopped playing, let him back. That said, I'm not his playing was fun for the rest of you -- think about that.
My two cents,
Jack
He is still my friend and even after those events he and I still met at each others houses to just hangout. I don't think I will ditch him. Thats as long as he doesn't talk or completley ignores me. So I only lost a gaming buddy not a friend, and that is what made me OK with it. Still though I understand why he left and what'not. I promise and swear on my life, I would never tell about him playing D&D to anyone because I know what that would do to his "Rep", if he chose to tell his girl-friend than i'm alright with it. It is his decision after all, but I have no reason to. It's that after he broke up with her(2-3 weeks) he still didn't apologize for not trusting us. Nor did he come back to playing D&D, still i'm fine with that. Even if he isn't a gaming buddy he is still one of my friends and that I am glad for. I just wish he had trusted us... I hope he wants to play again, and I hope he will play again as long as he doesn't leave or ditch us. I'm just worried he will do it again, still though I am glad he is my friend even if he isn't my gaming buddy.
~Flabulater OUT!
THe thing that ticks me off the most is he denied being my friend, but not Flab's... I dont remember doing anything to him but he disses me anyway. He sounds much more like "F" now more then anything else. I think though I will give him one more chance, after a "talk", but not let him play till school starts....
hehehehehe
Screw it. Just screw it.
I am one of the most well-respected members of my community. I'm no jock- I have little muscle mass in my body, and have never participated in an sporting event I wasn't forced to. I've never gone out drinking, used any drugs other than Tylenol and ibuprofen, just graduated from high school this Sunday as Salutatorian of my class with a 4.022 GPA, and am very open about my playing D&D. Everyone knows it, everyone still respects and appreciates me.
Two of my gaming buddies (one that I have literally known since infancy) are big-time jocks, and I don't say that in a negative manner. They play D&D, and while they don't often make conversation of it with others, they don't hide it either. They suffer no stigma. And they could kick your @$$ if they wanted to.
My entire gaming group is some of the best people you could ever find; they are well-liked by students and faculty/community members alike. All of them aren't nearly as academic as I (no bragging, just a fact), but they remain good people. Everyone at my itsy bitsy high school knew that we played D&D since the 10th grade, and no one cared. It didn't affect our "popularity" at all. In fact, being able to walk around talking about it and seeing that only made me more self-confident and a better person.
So just forget about him. Need another player at your table? I'd personally opt for a DMed NPC, but if it's better to have him there, let him. But don't worry about him. Just screw it.
My prophecy for him: Freakin' McDonald's manager. That's the type of personality that is an apatheic narcissit, hanging around you as long as you can entertain him, but not caring beyond that. Either that, or he's a weak, pathetic piece of crap. Long ago he had some insecurity, and in his little brain, which couldn't handle the stress and wasn't able to actually think it out, he thought he was just some fragile shell trying to fake his way through the world. Now he's told himself just that for so long it's true.
Pity him. What a waste of air.
I'm sorry for my outburst, but I've had to put up with one too many psychotic, egocentric morons already. That type of person is the bane of humanity, filling the world with ignorance and apathy, two things that really should be on the list of the Deadly Sins.
That's the type of person who "has a life." What, I don't breathe air? I don't drink, and eat, and sleep? Well, guess what, @$$, I do, and nothing you do in this life is anymore important than anything I'm doing, or anyone else who actually has a clue about the state of the world and gives a **** about their lives, unlike worthless dung heaps like the person mentioned before. And where is that "life" going to get you? Passed out at a friend's house because you drank too much; now you're heading for your little cubicle, or your Wal-Mart where you work, for your oh-so important job, while you go through the same, empty, meaningless routine, time and again, blaming everyone else in the world for their inability to do anything worthwhile. Meanwhile the nerd you laughed at in high school is saving lives as a doctor, or even more ironically, designing the electronic gizmos and computer devices you use in your everyday life to try and fill the mindless void of your existance. Funny, huh? What a waste of time.
That's the type of person who never gets past the first grade, or the embarrasment/fascination with their own genetalia.
Screw it. You don't need him. Don't expect anything more out of him and you won't be dissappointed.
/rant over
Saern, nice rant. Do you need a hug?
Group hug, everyone! :)
Screw it. Just screw it.
So just forget about him. Need another player at your table? I'd personally opt for a DMed NPC, but if it's better to have him there, let him. But don't worry about him. Just screw it.
Yeah..after F let my group i created a female drow npc to help out the group..the funny thing was that the npc drow was much better than F...my whole group would make jokes about it and stuff...xD
My prophecy for him: Freakin' McDonald's manager. That's the type of personality that is an apatheic narcissit, hanging around you as long as you can entertain him, but not caring beyond that. Either that, or he's a weak, pathetic piece of crap. Long ago he had some insecurity, and in his little brain, which couldn't handle the stress and wasn't able to actually think it out, he thought he was just some fragile shell trying to fake his way through the world. Now he's told himself just that for so long it's true.
LOL..true though...I hate these kind of people..thats why im looking for a job on Burger King...
Saern, that rant......scared me with the truth. Nice one though...just please don't do it again! :/
Flabulater SCARED!
Saern,
Congratulations on the honors you've achieved. That's terrific. Good luck in whatever future has in store for you.
F2K
PS: One of my DMs in high school was the All-American jock--high school football team quarterback, dated a cheerleader, got good grades, got appointed to the Naval Academy. Last I heard he was peeved that he couldn't run a game for the enlisted folks on his ship because fraternization was not allowed. (that was 'ca 1985...I hope he found a gaming group, we lost touch after that)
Group hug, everyone! :)
I'll bring cookies! Or pie - I make good pies, too! And we can all giggle and sing parodies of Pink Floyd songs and Scotland the Brave ("Scotland's Depraved" :P ) and swap gaming stories and make fun of the D&D movie and share a toast for our gamer friends that have come and gone and have another toast to many more good games with good friends.
I echo many of the thoughts that are in this thread - if said person is being an ass both in and out of game, they're not worth wasting your time and creativity you've put into the game. As far as other people giving you a hard time about gaming - well, gaming is a part of who you are. It's a part of who we all are, or else we wouldn't be on these boards. :D If other people can't accept the fact that you like roleplaying and accept that it's a part of your life, that is their problem, not yours. Quite frankly, out of all the things you could be doing with your free time, sharing your creative thoughts interactively with other people of like mind is probably one of the least destructive.
Besides, it's a heckuva lot of fun. :D