Age of Worms has gotten me interested in adventures I have to admit. The story was such a good one it's gotten me looking back at some of my old Dungeons (which at the time I was only buying for the Polyhedron minigames) to read the adventures in them. Mostly pretty good stuff. A little dungeon-crawly for my tastes to be sure, but good yarns. We've been thinking of using them as the background for one-shot mini-sessions sometime. So I'm looking through #98 and I find this cool little adventure about (erhem...spoilers ahead) this undead cleric of Nerull, Vargnin, who is trapped below an old mine by the magical flame of Pelor, which the adventurers must kill. So what kind of undead is this imprisoned evil cleric? A lich? Wait...aren't liches the culmination of a lifetime of arcane magical study? Isn't it supposed to be super hard even for an experienced archmage to turn himself into a lich? This guy's a cleric, not to mention an -imprisoned- one with no access to research or experimental materials or anything. It goes on to say that unlike any other lich he has no phylactery. Isn't that most of what makes a lich a lich?
So I got to thinking. What would be the downside of making him something else? Something that a god like Nerull would actually make him, something that doesn't require study to become and which doesn't require a phylactery. Offhand I was thinking about making him a Deathknight. He serves a god of death, the main prerequisite, and while he isn't one of the main fighter classes that usually are changed into one, he is a cleric and they're fair combatants so that seems to work. He'd even be able to keep his spell list since Deathknights can cast any spell they knew in life.
So what do you guys think? Not used to adventures much so I'm not sure what the consequenses of this kind of change might be. What do you think of the idea in the first place? Any of that kinda' stuff. I look forward to hearing from you.
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Personally, I never had a problem with him being a lich - thought it was a turnaround from the usual arcane lich to have a cleric. He worshipped Nerull, after all, god of death and undeath.
That said, a good template to use instead might be huecuva (in the Fiend Folio or MM2, not sure which). They are undead clerics (occasionally monks) that have been cursed by their deities. They retail their cleric spells but take a big hit to INT (and possibly CHA) and pass on some nasty disease. Probably not as vicious as a lich, but maybe more in keeping with a cleric.
Or you might prefer a gravetouched ghoul, which is effectively a "ghoul template" to shove on a classed NPC. Nasty and ravenous, with claw and bite attacks but also the spells. Plus you get some quite nice stat bonuses. There is an example in The Prince of Redhand - a cleric, ironically (of St Cuthbert, though fallen).
Lich, death knight, huecuva or whatever are all cool choices so long as it meshes with the story you and the party are telling. Perhaps it is a fiend trapped within, or maybe an evil artifact or what about the legendary terrasque or other kaiju monster? So long as it is compelling you can do what you want.
Maybe it's me trapped in there... Hey lemme out!
GGG
So what kind of undead is this imprisoned evil cleric? A lich? Wait...aren't liches the culmination of a lifetime of arcane magical study? Isn't it supposed to be super hard even for an experienced archmage to turn himself into a lich?
uhm.. no, not realy, in the 3.x versions of the game any spell caster with a caster level of 11 or higher and ther craft wondrous item feat can become a lich. you can have cleric liches, sorcerer liches, wizard liches, druid liches, or even heaven forbid bard or ranger liches. (although for a ranger to qualify I think he would need to be either 22nd level or have the Practiced Spellcaster feat and be 14th level).
that said I think the crypt spawn template (found in one of the FR books, don't remember which off the top of my head) would be better for Vargnin in this case.
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So I got to thinking. What would be the downside of making him something else? Something that a god like Nerull would actually make him, something that doesn't require study to become and which doesn't require a phylactery. Offhand I was thinking about making him a Deathknight. He serves a god of death, the main prerequisite, and while he isn't one of the main fighter classes that usually are changed into one, he is a cleric and they're fair combatants so that seems to work. He'd even be able to keep his spell list since Deathknights can cast any spell they knew in life.
So what do you guys think? Not used to adventures much so I'm not sure what the consequenses of this kind of change might be. What do you think of the idea in the first place? Any of that kinda' stuff. I look forward to hearing from you.
A conversion would depend a bit on setting - if you use the Greyhawk setting (which you should...), Death Knights are powerful individuals cursed by Demogorgon. As there are only 13 or so of them in total, suddenly introducing one would be a bit..., well... wrong. Other settings, of course, ignore this potential problem.
IMO, the Huecuva suggestions are good, but I'd probably make him a Mummy - the fool wanders in, gets trapped, starves to death and transforms into a dried-out husk animated by anger and malice. Drop the bandages from the description, replace the mummy rot with some other unpleasant supernatural side effect (I'm thinking something akin to the Touch of Idiocy spell - call it "Caress of Madness", or something like that), give it a Blackguard-style Aura of Despair instead of the fear effect and then kick back and enjoy the confused and panicky looks amongst the PCs.
I skimmed "Beyond the Light of Reason" but did not buy the magazine. I remember thinking that such a beneficial item would be guarded by the townsfolk. Did the adventure explain why it was left in a cave without protection?
*now entering spoilerville...*
Actually the storyline is really good. The "lich" was a cleric with whom the local adventuring cleric hero of Pelor fought a cataclysmic battle. The artifact was the result. A great 40' plume of divine fire that functioned to trap evil within the mountain caves. From this flame of Pelor, the hero was able to forge a lantern to radiate a protective aura around the village to keep out all evil. The lantern is doused and so the PCs must travel to the source, the great flame gout to relight it. The evil creatures there are those summoned by the "lich" in his attempts to devise an escape from the prison created by the gout of holy fire--and the PCs must fight through them and confront the lich who is near to completing a ritual to douse the flame itself and free himself and all the creatures with him. The villagers were protecting the small artifact until it was doused, but the source pyre is deep in the prison where the evil lich was imprisoned.I like your idea for an alternative to the lich choice--though I'm not sure about him having a bunch of spiders in him. Also I'd like for the undead form to be one that's less arcane in origin and more of a divine creation. Liches have always been about a proceedure to become immortal through study and intense ritual. I'm sure I can find something that will work.
A conversion would depend a bit on setting - if you use the Greyhawk setting (which you should...), Death Knights are powerful individuals cursed by Demogorgon. As there are only 13 or so of them in total, suddenly introducing one would be a bit..., well... wrong. Other settings, of course, ignore this potential problem.
Totally setting it in Greyhawk. I hate ripping adventures out of their context. I am a nut about continuity and canon. I am really new to Greyhawk also, however so had no idea that Deathknights had a specific history there. Absolutely won't do that in light of their established place in the setting. Thanks for the info. I will take another good look at the huecuva again. That might just do the job. I'd probably have the same problems with a mummy as I would a lich, since they are prepared and animated in special ceremonies that the cleric just didn't recieve. I'll check it out though.
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The Flame does nothing to prevent Vargnin from using summon monster spells, and by extension, planar ally spells.
If Vargnin found himself trapped he might have used a Scroll of Planar Ally, Greater (no longer in his possession). By allowing him to summon a Pit Fiend, he might have been granted a single wish.
Since wish can duplicate any Sorc/Wiz spell of 8th level or lower, the Pit Fiend could use wish to cast Create Greater Undead. I can totally see this cleric killing himself while the Pit Fiend cast Create Greater Undead on him.
In the Player's Handbook it only allows the spell to create shadows, wraiths, spectres or devourers. While that is all that list includes, I think it is reasonable to allow other undead to be created in that fashion (since creatures like mummies are created with the lower level spell create undead).
Fun things I think you can do include taking the base 14th level cleric and adding the corrupted template and the corpse creature template (both in the Book of Vile Darkness).
That increases the CR to 18 (two higher than the 16 in the module) but I think the templates increase the CR more that is appropriate in this instance. Corrupted adds +3 to the CR for any creature with more than 8 HD because it gains an impressive fast healing ability (equal to 1/2 the HD, or in this case Fast Heal 7).
What I don't like about the Huecuva is that it is barely sentient - not the model for an intelligent bad guy with long range plans.
The Swordwraith might be a good alternative to the DeathKnight (found in Fiend Folio).
They don't have anything as scary as level drain but they do gain DR. According to the Fiend Folio that DR is 10/+2. I'm not sure what the official DR is supposed to be, but I would change it to Cold Iron & Magic (since they are pseudo-incorporeal).
And of course, Vampire is the old standby. It retains the energy drain of a lich and has the same CR adjustment.
I agree with you that liches aren't intimidating in 3.x. Mid-level casters can become a lich. I don't like that for my campaigns, but I can see the designers wanted such an iconic monster to be an opponent for lower level groups as well. Such is life.
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A conversion would depend a bit on setting - if you use the Greyhawk setting (which you should...), Death Knights are powerful individuals cursed by Demogorgon. As there are only 13 or so of them in total, suddenly introducing one would be a bit..., well... wrong. Other settings, of course, ignore this potential problem.Totally setting it in Greyhawk. I hate ripping adventures out of their context. I am a nut about continuity and canon. I am really new to Greyhawk also, however so had no idea that Deathknights had a specific history there. Absolutely won't do that in light of their established place in the setting. Thanks for the info. I will take another good look at the huecuva again. That might just do the job. I'd probably have the same problems with a mummy as I would a lich, since they are prepared and animated in special ceremonies that the cleric just didn't recieve. I'll check it out though.
A couple of years ago, back in the day when Dragon still occasionally ran their Living Greyhawk feature (grumble, grumble...), there were two very good articles about the Death Knights of Oerth - they had full stat blocks for the three or four most interesting ones, as well as the names, levels and motivations for the rest of them. Essentially, they were a company of powerful knights who were betrayed by their leader and were cursed with eternal unlife. Some of them have embraced their new nature, while others hate it. Of course, one of those recaltricant Death Knights make an appearance in the excellent Dungeon adventure "Lost Temple of Demogorgon". Naturally, I can't remember any of the issues mentioned... However, despite being powerful and unique individuals, the Death Knights are not "iconic" Greyhawk monsters, so it shouldn't be too problematic to sneak one more into the setting...
If you want to be REALLY nasty, you could make the magical torch the lich's phylactery - the lich and the light are inextricably linked due to the circumstances of the light's creation.
If you want to be REALLY nasty, you could make the magical torch the lich's phylactery - the lich and the light are inextricably linked due to the circumstances...
The amount of pride that one feels when you stumble across a thread all about your adventure, the pride... ;)
There is actually two reasons why Vargnin is a lich in this module...
a) Nerull considered his 'raising' a blessing, a second chance to prove himself by allowing him the chance to destroy Pelor's Pyre (which he did have a hand in creating). Giving him the form of a lich skipped most of the research part of the trasformation, so he could not hide his soul away, if he failed, he died.
b) Back in the ol' days, the only monsters available to us writers were in the MMs. The adventure is a monster, with little room to put in new monsters (which I did try, the Grimlock were initally to be Urd). The adventure was initally lower level too, making Vargnin a vampiric cleric, but neither I now the Dungeon people liked it, so lich he became.
c) At the time of writing there was no 3.x adventures with liches in it, someone had to step up to the plate.
As for the quoted comment above, the lantern's primary purpose was to repel all evil from the village. It was a beacon of hope and light forged with the help of a god that stood against all things undead, had Nerull gotten away with that I'd be reconsidering my godly position ;)
My suggestion for the new rules? Vargnin would make a great corpse creature (makes a lot more sense) with the corrupted template. Vargnin is not really much of a fighter character, he was initally the burgomaster for the village and fled once he was discovered, hardly a brave act.
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If you want to be REALLY nasty, you could make the magical torch the lich's phylactery - the lich and the light are inextricably linked due to the circumstances...The amount of pride that one feels when you stumble across a thread all about your adventure, the pride... ;)
There is actually two reasons why Vargnin is a lich in this module...
a) Nerull considered his 'raising' a blessing, a second chance to prove himself by allowing him the chance to destroy Pelor's Pyre (which he did have a hand in creating). Giving him the form of a lich skipped most of the research part of the trasformation, so he could not hide his soul away, if he failed, he died.
b) Back in the ol' days, the only monsters available to us writers were in the MMs. The adventure is a monster, with little room to put in new monsters (which I did try, the Grimlock were initally to be Urd). The adventure was initally lower level too, making Vargnin a vampiric cleric, but neither I now the Dungeon people liked it, so lich he became.
c) At the time of writing there was no 3.x adventures with liches in it, someone had to step up to the plate.As for the quoted comment above, the lantern's primary purpose was to repel all evil from the village. It was a beacon of hope and light forged with the help of a god that stood against all things undead, had Nerull gotten away with that I'd be reconsidering my godly position ;)
My suggestion for the new rules? Vargnin would make a great corpse creature (makes a lot more sense) with the corrupted template. Vargnin is not really much of a fighter character, he was initally the burgomaster for the village and fled once he was discovered, hardly a brave act.
Ah, the dangers associated with suggesting changes to an adventure one has not read... Obviously the Pyre cannot be the phylactery, then - I just thought that it would make for an interesting conundrum for the PCs. Thanks!
Ah, the dangers associated with suggesting changes to an adventure one has not read... Obviously the Pyre cannot be the phylactery, then - I just thought that it would make for an interesting conundrum for the PCs. Thanks!If you want to be REALLY nasty, you could make the magical torch the lich's phylactery - the lich and the light are inextricably linked due to the circumstances...The amount of pride that one feels when you stumble across a thread all about your adventure, the pride... ;)
There is actually two reasons why Vargnin is a lich in this module...
a) Nerull considered his 'raising' a blessing, a second chance to prove himself by allowing him the chance to destroy Pelor's Pyre (which he did have a hand in creating). Giving him the form of a lich skipped most of the research part of the trasformation, so he could not hide his soul away, if he failed, he died.
b) Back in the ol' days, the only monsters available to us writers were in the MMs. The adventure is a monster, with little room to put in new monsters (which I did try, the Grimlock were initally to be Urd). The adventure was initally lower level too, making Vargnin a vampiric cleric, but neither I now the Dungeon people liked it, so lich he became.
c) At the time of writing there was no 3.x adventures with liches in it, someone had to step up to the plate.As for the quoted comment above, the lantern's primary purpose was to repel all evil from the village. It was a beacon of hope and light forged with the help of a god that stood against all things undead, had Nerull gotten away with that I'd be reconsidering my godly position ;)
My suggestion for the new rules? Vargnin would make a great corpse creature (makes a lot more sense) with the corrupted template. Vargnin is not really much of a fighter character, he was initally the burgomaster for the village and fled once he was discovered, hardly a brave act.
To make things more complicated there are two artifacts, Pelor's Pyre (a fire that burns in the heart of the mountain) and The Light of Reason (a lantern which captures a small part of the Pyre and reverses it).
Unfortunately, both are really, really good-aligned ;)