So my Dungeon #133 arrives and I'm thrilled with everything about it. I read all the adventures immediately, of course, with special attention to AOW since I'm currently DMing the adventure path. Chimes at Midnight is an Eberron adventure so I feel the instant temptation to save it to read last (I don't use Eberron, so I figure it would be the least practical and most difficult to adapt). Now I'm not the kind who usually agrees with those agrieved masses who constantly debate the pro's and con's of campaign specific modules versus generic ones. I almost always can find some way to adapt or at least pirate ideas from virtually any adventure. I'm kinda anal so I like to read the magazine straight through rather than skip around (when I might miss something). Anyway... I read Chimes at Midnight and found it wonderfully well written with a clever plot and interesting NPCs and challenges. My complaint is this - In the first paragraph is "With some adaptation, this adventure can be played in any urban environment regardless of setting". I STRONGLY disagree! Obviously Mr. Logue's (or whomever's) idea of "some" and mine differ vastly. It's a wonderful adventure, as I already stated but much of it hinges on the rail station - NOT an easy thing to adjust to your standard medieval setting! It's the statement I have complaint with, not the specific style of the module. I feel like I was *lured* into reading this adventure under false pretenses - sorta bait & switch. The challenge is great but I believe it will take a lot more than *some* adaptation before much of it could be truly or accurately played out in any campaign of mine. I appreciate knowing that (and therefore having the proper frame of mind) before I start reading something.
Chimes at Midnight is a campaign specific adventure (most of which can indeed be adapted *with work* or at least are useful as idea seedbeds). Why try to trick us into reading it instead of letting it prompt us itself on its own merits? Why not just call a spade a spade?
signed,
Disillusioned in DesMoines (well, actually North Carolina but you get the point)
My complaint is this - In the first paragraph is "With some adaptation, this adventure can be played in any urban environment regardless of setting". I STRONGLY disagree! Obviously Mr. Logue's (or whomever's) idea of "some" and mine differ vastly. It's a wonderful adventure, as I already stated but much of it hinges on the rail station - NOT an easy thing to adjust to your standard medieval setting!
SirMarcus -
I have to suspect that he had an idea of how it might be converted. He regularly reads the boards, hopefully he'll stop by and offer suggestions.
On the other hand - "some" is an evil word, because "some work" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
That said... even if Nick doesn't have any ideas, you've got a board full of folks who may be able to give you suggestions (I would myself, but my husband runs our Eberron game, and I don't read the Eberron adventures because he's intending on running us through many of them).
- Ashavan
My complaint is this - In the first paragraph is "With some adaptation, this adventure can be played in any urban environment regardless of setting". I STRONGLY disagree! Obviously Mr. Logue's (or whomever's) idea of "some" and mine differ vastly. It's a wonderful adventure, as I already stated but much of it hinges on the rail station - NOT an easy thing to adjust to your standard medieval setting!SirMarcus -
I have to suspect that he had an idea of how it might be converted. He regularly reads the boards, hopefully he'll stop by and offer suggestions.
On the other hand - "some" is an evil word, because "some work" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
That said... even if Nick doesn't have any ideas, you've got a board full of folks who may be able to give you suggestions (I would myself, but my husband runs our Eberron game, and I don't read the Eberron adventures because he's intending on running us through many of them).
- Ashavan
"Some" is an evil evil word isn't it. ;-)
SirMarcus you bring up an excellent point. The adventure is pretty deeply steeped in Eberroness. My suggestion for the rail crash scene would be to substitute it for some other act of heinous sabotage that will result in the Baron's injury or death. I basically intend that scene to show off Viktor's brilliance and methods (and cause it is exciting...I hope). He likes a well concieved plan, and to strike from a distance.
If you want to adapt it, just pick a mode of transport and then dream up some complicated and dangerous accident/attack one could orchestrate.
If you want some adaptations I'll do me best on short notice here:
Could be that the Baron's mode of travel is a river boat, which could then be sabotaged by Viktor to head down a bad stretch of river frought with rapids, a big waterfall, dangerous river denizens (big awakened snake, nagas, merrows, etc.) or all three.
You could also have the Baron's old clunky medieval style carriage going through bandit ridden woods, and the PCs find a note at Viktor's office about him bribing bandits to waylay and kill the Baron.
Maybe the carriage has to go over a bridge, which Viktor cunningly sabotages to collapse when the full weight of the carriage reaches its midpoint. Below the bridge are hideous monstrosities of your devising to dispatch with the Baron forthwith.
Personally, I would have the Baron have a penchant for riding an aerial coach pulled by dragons, hippogriffs or some other flying creatures, and have Viktor devise some sort of sabotage involving a nearly invisible net (or several thin thin razorwires) strung between two tall towers which the flying carriage's route passes between. That would make for a crazy scene, and then Scrimshaw could have a little fun messing with the PCs as they try to disable the net before the Baron's flying coach crashes into it (he could pose as a "gargoyle" on one of the towers, or just take vicious pot shots at the party from the air). Since Viktor likes to cover his bases, maybe he arranges for a clutch of manticores being brought into town by some rich merchant for his personal menagaeire of dangerous pets to "accidentally" escape and take to the air. Chaos ensues.
Okay those are my quick thoughts. If I get any other doozies I'll lay em on you on Monday (no internet at home sucks).
Sorry about the evil evil mislead SirMarcus. Hope you dug the rest of the adventure anyhoo.
I thought this was a great adventure. The escaped criminal allies are awesome NPCs.
To me there's a real "Batman: The Animated Series" flavor to this adventure. As a diversion from my ongoing D&D campaign, I am thinking of running a short 2-3 timer for this adventure, in a modified D20 Modern game. I want it to take place in a dark, Gotham City, with a version of Arkham Asylum.
Anyway... I read Chimes at Midnight and found it wonderfully well written with a clever plot and interesting NPCs and challenges. My complaint is this - In the first paragraph is "With some adaptation, this adventure can be played in any urban environment regardless of setting". I STRONGLY disagree! Obviously Mr. Logue's (or whomever's) idea of "some" and mine differ vastly. It's a wonderful adventure, as I already stated but much of it hinges on the rail station - NOT an easy thing to adjust to your standard medieval setting! It's the statement I have complaint with, not the specific style of the module. I feel like I was *lured* into reading this adventure under false pretenses - sorta bait & switch.
The cad. Imagine the nerve, tricking someone into reading a wonderful, clever, interesting, and well-labelled Eberron adventure with a picture of a train wreck on the first page. Have you no shame, Mr. Logue?
Disillusioned in DesMoines (well, actually North Carolina but you get the point)
Wait a minute. You mean you're not from DesMoines?
The disillusioned,
Great Green God
[spoilers for both 'Chimes at Midnight and 'Murder in Oakbridge' below - read at your own peril]
'Chimes at Midnight' is an excellent adventure. Right now I'm running 'Murder in Oakbridge' from #129 as an 'intro' to 'Chimes'. 'Murder' is a great module in and of itself, and it's also a great way to introduce Saint-Demain before his fall from grace.
After the last adventure, I had posted some news clippings in my Eberron blog for the players to read. Most were about their previous exploits in Karrnath, but one was about Saint-Demain's daring capture of the infamous serial killer known as 'the Gasper'. So naturally, when they got stumped in the first couple of scenes of 'Murder in Oakbridge', they asked around and discovered that Saint-Demain lives in Clifftop. So they went up to his office and spoke with him at length about the crime scenes. It was kinda surreal, and very cool.
Both of these adventures have great villains. They weren't born evil, they're just misguided and a bit unhinged. So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!'
Actually, that sounds like fun too.
Edit: Actually, I had one question for you, Nicholas, since you might be reading through here anyway. How would you build Victor as a gestalt character? My Eberron game is gestalt, and that's been my only major problem with running NPCs straight out of modules so far. I rebuilt Ziki in 'Murder' as a Rogue/Diviner/Swashbuckler to good effect, though I had to modify some of the crime scenes to account for her spellcasting abilities. But I'm not really sure what to do with Victor. Any ideas?
[spoilers for both 'Chimes at Midnight and 'Murder in Oakbridge' below - read at your own peril]
'Chimes at Midnight' is an excellent adventure. Right now I'm running 'Murder in Oakbridge' from #129 as an 'intro' to 'Chimes'. 'Murder' is a great module in and of itself, and it's also a great way to introduce Saint-Demain before his fall from grace.
After the last adventure, I had posted some news clippings in my Eberron blog for the players to read. Most were about their previous exploits in Karrnath, but one was about Saint-Demain's daring capture of the infamous serial killer known as 'the Gasper'. So naturally, when they got stumped in the first couple of scenes of 'Murder in Oakbridge', they asked around and discovered that Saint-Demain lives in Clifftop. So they went up to his office and spoke with him at length about the crime scenes. It was kinda surreal, and very cool.
Both of these adventures have great villains. They weren't born evil, they're just misguided and a bit unhinged. So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!'
Actually, that sounds like fun too.
Edit: Actually, I had one question for you, Nicholas, since you might be reading through here anyway. How would you build Victor as a gestalt character? My Eberron game is gestalt, and that's been my only major problem with running NPCs straight out of modules so far. I rebuilt Ziki in 'Murder' as a Rogue/Diviner/Swashbuckler to good effect, though I had to modify some of the crime scenes to account for her spellcasting abilities. But I'm not really sure what to do with Victor. Any ideas?
Treehouse! I am not too familar with gestalt...I'll look at Unearthed Arcana when I get home from the theatre tonight and take a look-see.
Werecabbages.
Both of these adventures have great villains. They weren't born evil, they're just misguided and a bit unhinged. So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!'
Off subject a little bit, I would totally love to see a "Critical Threat" of the necromancer king of pirate demons. That would be awesome.
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I thought the NPCs of Mr. Logue's adventure were interesting, and the villain was someone I'd love to hate. Other than that, this adventure didn't really appeal to me because it was in Eberron, which I dislike. In fact, if it hadn't been for the other two adventures in this issue, I probably would have skipped it.
I loved the whole Beowulf feel of Ill-made Graves. Fantastic. And treating the tooth as more of a haunted object then an outright ghost was really cool. Very different from when they usually have ghosts. I also liked the set-up for future plots. The fighting between the barbarian tribes. The possibilty of something from the Plane of Fire taking over the lair. And there's always the possibility that the PCs could keep the tooth instead of destroying it.
And what can I say about Kings of the Rift. Wow! Giants versus Dragons. Its something I've been waiting a long time to see. Cool.
Treehouse! I am not too familar with gestalt...I'll look at Unearthed Arcana when I get home from the theatre tonight and take a look-see.
Spiffy! But only if you have the time and inclination to do so. I have a very basic idea of what Victor might be in gestalt terms, but I thought it'd be interesting to hear your take on it.
On that note, I changed Scrimshaw's levels from rogue to fighter/scout. It fits him pretty well.
I thought this was a great adventure. The escaped criminal allies are awesome NPCs.
To me there's a real "Batman: The Animated Series" flavor to this adventure. As a diversion from my ongoing D&D campaign, I am thinking of running a short 2-3 timer for this adventure, in a modified D20 Modern game. I want it to take place in a dark, Gotham City, with a version of Arkham Asylum.
This adventure made me think, What's going to happen to sharn after it falls? You know, every city falls, becomes corrupt, just like Batman again. Imagine the lightning rail decayed, old warforged corpses lie open on the streets, scavanged for parts...
That would be sooo cool.
Thank you, Mr. Logue, for offering such interesting options. I think I like the flying carriage one best. As I said, the module warrants exploration and adaptation. I'd like to use as much of it as possible. Viktor is such a complicated character though, who is supposed to have a detailed background, that I'm now imagining quite a bit of set-up/introduction for the PCs in my campaign to understand the intended flavor here. Hmmm, perhaps I should rethink this whole thing...
Edit: Actually, I had one question for you, Nicholas, since you might be reading through here anyway. How would you build Victor as a gestalt character?
I see two good choices for the "other side" of Victor as a gestalt character. The first option is to do what you did with Ziki - diviner. It fits nicely with the investigator theme. I suppose you could also go bard and focus on divinations, but diviner feels better.
The other option would be ranger levels. They mesh very nicely the investigator/bounty hunter feel victor has.
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I just finished reading Chimes last night. Very fun read. The NPCs were wonderful with their individualized weaknesses. One thing I think this adventure needed, though, was a sidebar to cover divination magic.
Surely the baron has somebody in his employ who is capabale of casting either locate object or locate creature. I mean, certainly plenty of things can foil either of those (including distance). But shouldn't it have been discussed? What about other divination magic available to the PCs? Actually, looking through the list of divination spells the PCs should have at that level, there isn't too much more that could be useful. So I guess it'd be a really short sidebar. ;)
And this reminds me of a topic I wanted to bring up. Time to start a new thread...
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This adventure made me think, What's going to happen to sharn after it falls? You know, every city falls, becomes corrupt, just like Batman again. Imagine the lightning rail decayed, old warforged corpses lie open on the streets, scavanged for parts...That would be sooo cool.
There's also the issue of the nature of Sharn. It's aligned with the plane of air, and when the magic in the city started to fail, there would be a lot of interesting consequences -- towers floating off and then falling a mile or more, skycars grounded or sporadically working at best. Another aspect is that the workers from the Cogs might start making a larger direct impact on the upper parts of Sharn. You can maybe imagine some goblin baron taking up residence in Crystal Bridge. Enough fun for now!
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Regarding the specifics of Issue #133, I really liked the art for Ill Made Graves. I'd love to see more of that art style. It is by far my favorite. Variety is good, but that particular variety is best.
I also enjoyed the Maps of Mystery the last few issues, and the attempts to include 3-dimensional maps. Very good.
I really liked the NPCs in this adventure. Lots of flavor. Lots of fun. They're worth seeing again. I want a sequel in which Victor, now imprisoned in a hellish prison, stages a riot and seizes control. The PCs must enter the prison, battle their way through the most vicious cuthroats in Ebberon, and defeat Victor before he murders the warden, or the warden's dog.
Mr. Logue, consider that a freebie.
I really liked the NPCs in this adventure. Lots of flavor. Lots of fun. They're worth seeing again. I want a sequel in which Victor, now imprisoned in a hellish prison, stages a riot and seizes control. The PCs must enter the prison, battle their way through the most vicious cuthroats in Ebberon, and defeat Victor before he murders the warden, or the warden's dog.
Mr. Logue, consider that a freebie.
Thanks Jeb, working on the proposal right now...I am really getting into the warden's dog's deep seated psychological motivations. I think this should be a three-parter with the dog taking the reins of major antagonist in the final installment. In fact Viktor can't hold a shadow to this dog, as far as interesting characteristics go. No Viktor in the sequel. Just dog. ;-)
To everyone who posted here...thanks for the kind words for Chimes, of the adventures I have written thus far, this is my favorite, glad you guys dig it too.
Treehouse! I am not too familar with gestalt...I'll look at Unearthed Arcana when I get home from the theatre tonight and take a look-see.
Treehouse! I am so sorry! I can't find my Unearthed Arcana book, I think I lent it to one of my partners in crime out here in Hawai'i. Sorry about not posting anything on gestalt Viktor. :-(
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The cad. Imagine the nerve, tricking someone into reading a wonderful, clever, interesting, and well-labelled Eberron adventure with a picture of a train wreck on the first page. Have you no shame, Mr. Logue?
(emphasis mine) I agree, Eberron should be identified with a train wreck. But I also agree with SirMarcus. I wish Mr. Logue would focus his brilliance on campaign settings which lack robots and trains...forgive me, I'm old school and set in my ways.
The cad. Imagine the nerve, tricking someone into reading a wonderful, clever, interesting, and well-labelled Eberron adventure with a picture of a train wreck on the first page. Have you no shame, Mr. Logue?(emphasis mine) I agree, Eberron should be identified with a train wreck. But I also agree with SirMarcus. I wish Mr. Logue would focus his brilliance on campaign settings which lack robots and trains...forgive me, I'm old school and set in my ways.
Have no fear ditheringfool, though I likes me some Eberron, I have a few adventures in the mix that are decidedly not Eberrony. I like everything. I am old-new school funk. Well, okay I'm not that old school, but I can be taught! :-)
Eberron has robots and trains? I thought they had living constructs imbued with souls and mass transportation devices powered by enslaved elementals...
Nicolas - that's alright. I think I've got Victor all figured out. Thanks for looking on my behalf, at any rate :)
So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!'
Actually, that sounds like fun too.
Yar! Yer scurvy livin' landlubber meathooks'l not be layin' in on me coursair bootie. First Mate Rattles! Toss this lot in with the dretches.
How would you build Victor as a gestalt character? My Eberron game is gestalt, and that's been my only major problem with running NPCs straight out of modules so far. I rebuilt Ziki in 'Murder' as a Rogue/Diviner/Swashbuckler to good effect, though I had to modify some of the crime scenes to account for her spellcasting abilities. But I'm not really sure what to do with Victor. Any ideas?
The ideas mentioned above work nicely, but I think that the most... diabolical way to work in gestalt levels is with warlock.
Both of these adventures have great villains. They weren't born evil, they're just misguided and a bit unhinged. So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!'Off subject a little bit, I would totally love to see a "Critical Threat" of the necromancer king of pirate demons. That would be awesome.
I'm more interested in the adventure involving a Necromancer King and his Pirate Demons being Pirates - A Necromancer King is pretty standard issue but Pirate Demons ... I don't recall ever encountering Pirate Demons. What do they Pirate? Lost souls maybe?
I don't recall ever encountering Pirate Demons.
You are obviously unfamiliar with 'The Secret of Monkey Island' and its successors :-)
You are obviously unfamiliar with 'The Secret of Monkey Island' and its successors :-)
I've always wanted to recreate the spinning severed head navigational device. That thing was awesome.
And don't forget, when dueling, the best response to "You, sir, are a pain in the backside!" is "Ah, hemorrhoids flaring up again?"
My complaint is this - In the first paragraph is "With some adaptation, this adventure can be played in any urban environment regardless of setting". I STRONGLY disagree! Obviously Mr. Logue's (or whomever's) idea of "some" and mine differ vastly.
Well said. I know this is a little late (but then, I get my issues a little late), and I was going to post something along these lines - but I see somebody has long since beaten me to it.
Simply put: Bad, Paizo! Bad! If you insist on including Eberron adventures in Dungeon magazine, then could you please include a sidebar that specifically details pain-free ways to adapt such an adventure to a more, *ahem*, "normal" campaign? This is especially important when said adventure includes all the worst aspects of Eberron ("worst" in this case simply meaning the most un-adaptable aspects such as warforged and freakin' trains - that "explode in an elemental fury leaving wreckage of twisted steel..." [paraphrased]).
And the "with some adaptation" statement was laughably stupid and somewhat insulting (as it was more like: "re-write entire sections of the adventure" - which is not what harried DMs buy the magazine for).
(But otherwise, the adventure itself was quite good, and as usual the entire issue rocked. On toast. But for the love of pete - include an adaptation sidebar [or even on the website in a reasonable timeframe] with at least the wackier of the Eberron adventures. Please!)
FYI - Victor works very well in a gestalt game as a swashbuckler/spellthief who goes into master inquisitive on the swashbuckler side, especially if he's going to be a couple of levels higher than the PCs.
That is all. ;)
FYI - Victor works very well in a gestalt game as a swashbuckler/spellthief who goes into master inquisitive on the swashbuckler side, especially if he's going to be a couple of levels higher than the PCs.
That is all. ;)
Nice! :-)