Saern I played many a first edition wizards and third edition wizard will kick the first edition wizards butt. Especially at first level, you had one spell and you rolled 1st level hit points.
Clerics had less spells in older editions and had to prepare cure spells. Spontanious casting of cure spells went a long way in diversifing the clerics spell choice. Such a great idea.
No sorcerers in the early editions. Either you prepared spells or you did not cast them.
The bard was the original prestige class you had to multi class as a thief, fighter then cruid, I believe. But as you progressed you did not have the abilities of the former classes until you became a bard. It was combersome and a long time investment.
Druids, well druids were always cool.
I hate people who turn D&D into a beer and pretzals party game and just a way to hang out whilst chopping down doors and hewing through orcs standing around for no good reason because there's a chest full of gold in the corner of the room, again for no good reason...or in other words dungeon crawling and the people who participate in it.
Try beer & poke (marinated raw fish, mmm good) next time.
I also hate spells getting messed up by DCs. I dislike the fact that I have to take spell focus for most will-based spells because the monster will saves seem to outpace the DC.
I hate it when people say "I hate people who..." in the rant thread, even when I do it to sometimes. You should hate the act, not the person, I think.
I hate it when people deride 3.5 combat. I for one enjoy the tactics of combat, and the fact that 3.0/3.5 made is so much more concise and clear. I think these people forget how muddled the combat of past editions was. I like how combat is clearly laid out and set up so a canny player can find ways to be a clever fighter, but there is still room for my meat-cleaving barbarian of a friend to be a tank. Does this make me a wargamer? Hardly. I like it for my fights to make sense and to be able to use the rules to make fun combat.
I love 3.5. Its the best edition, ever. I dislike certain aspects, but I still love it.
I agree that there are too many PrCs.
With those in mind, I miss some of the PrCs that didn't make it in the conversion, namely the devoted defender and the lasher.
I like it when the following people post: F2K, Saern, Sebastian, Fake Healer, Dryder, GGG, theacemu, Koldoon Heathansson, Lilith, Tequilla Sunrise, Grimcleaver, and Aberzombie. And Jeremy MacDonald.
I hate that I feel bad that I probably left someone out.
I like it when authors I've heard of/or enjoy like Keith Baker or Sean K Reynolds post in here.
I love Order of the Stick. I laugh my ass off all the time.
I love ranting. And I hate ranting.
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I hate that Ultradan's job keeps him from posting much on the boards. This guy's insight and humor is badly missed and his company should allow access to Paizo's site for him because he is a Messageboard Treasure.
I also hate that "Down and out" and "recovering with bedrest" is no longer something that happens in D&D. Maybe once you reach 10% or lower of your max hit points you should need x days rest where x is the amount of hps below the 10% mark you reached.
FH
I hate that Ultradan's job keeps him from posting much on the boards. This guy's insight and humor is badly missed and his company should allow access to Paizo's site for him because he is a Messageboard Treasure.
I also hate that "Down and out" and "recovering with bedrest" is no longer something that happens in D&D. Maybe once you reach 10% or lower of your max hit points you should need x days rest where x is the amount of hps below the 10% mark you reached.FH
Say, that down and out dynamic..where was it first published? I'm very much interested in reading that, I've been working on adding a white wolf dynamic (ok, hurt, injured, incapacitated, dying, dead) to D&D's hit points. Maybe in incriments of 20%?
::attempting to ressurrect thread::
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Say, that down and out dynamic..where was it first published? I'm very much interested in reading that, I've been working on adding a white wolf dynamic (ok, hurt, injured, incapacitated, dying, dead) to D&D's hit points. Maybe in incriments of 20%?
::attempting to ressurrect thread::
I want to say that Mutants and Masterminds has that sort of system. True20 might also. You make a save against damage, and if you fail, you suffer negative effects. Fail enough saves and you go down.
And finally, someone needs to tell Ed Greenwood and R.A. Salvatore to take a break and refocus. Greenwood is probably unredeemable (anyone other than me here who has read his "Spellfire" novel?), but Salvatore, despite the gawdawful "Cleric's Quintet" and a general overall plunge in quality, is merely in need of some very serious refocusing. The moralising and quasi-philosophy in his intros now make a televangelist look subtle; reading the musings of Drizzt on topics like ethics and the purpose of our existence reminds me of the deep thinking of Vin Diesel's character in The fast and the furious - "When I'm in my car, I feel free". Without some urgent assistance, Salvatore is running the risk of becoming fantasy's Tom Clancy - ponderous, pretentious and generally annoying, all while trying to write what essentially amounts to fun action adventures - if he isn't there already.
Interesting p.o.v on the novels, Vatt- What are you reading nowadays, just out of curiosity? Where do you think things should go with these world novelwise?
I want to say that Mutants and Masterminds has that sort of system. True20 might also. You make a save against damage, and if you fail, you suffer negative effects. Fail enough saves and you go down.
Say, that down and out dynamic..where was it first published? I'm very much interested in reading that, I've been working on adding a white wolf dynamic (ok, hurt, injured, incapacitated, dying, dead) to D&D's hit points. Maybe in incriments of 20%?
::attempting to ressurrect thread::
Is that second or first edition on mutants and masterminds? I only have first edition...Speaking of, while mutants and masterminds is a fine game, I never got past the original Marvel Super Heroes game. I love that game. Maybe because it was my first rpg. It was so unrealistic, but it made so much sense, much like the comic books of the age. Mutants and Masterminds and the d6 DC Heroes game are much better suited to more "realistic" play, I think.
I hate that most poisons are laughable in their DCs. I hate that most environmental conditions are also weak. I hate that a fighter can survive a 200 foot fall, or even a 1,500 foot fall because the damage cap is at 20d6! I hate when someone counters, "Well, they're supposed to be tough and take inhuman amounts of damage." If I described a sword as going straight through their hearts, you would still say they die, wouldn't you? Some things should kill a human being, period. Save or die, mother f****er.
Hrm...I agree with you on the poisions and enviornmental conditions and a LOT of other things you said(especially the knight/warden part- you're preaching the the choir on THAT), but the thing with the fighter stuck to me because I got into a huge debate on it with some friends not even 24 hours ago. It irks you and others, but..well..yeah, the fighter IS tough and can take a lot of damage. However, noone should be able to take INHUMAN amounts of damage, I usually make use of some damage variants taken out of Unearthed Arcana or somesuch or other for really unusual situations(even though this is D&D, very few players find themselves facing death as a result of concrete poisioning). But also take a look at the fighter's saves- they're still geared towards surviving massive fortitude-based damage. I know you don't like it(and maybe this isn't the part of the board to address it in- it IS a rant after all), but hey- living to fight another day with the sharpened bones of the enemies he killed today is the fighter's job.
I hate that most poisons are laughable in their DCs. I hate that most environmental conditions are also weak. I hate that a fighter can survive a 200 foot fall, or even a 1,500 foot fall because the damage cap is at 20d6! I hate when someone counters, "Well, they're supposed to be tough and take inhuman amounts of damage." If I described a sword as going straight through their hearts, you would still say they die, wouldn't you? Some things should kill a human being, period. Save or die, mother f****er.
I am driven out of my mind when the rules trump reality for game balance. See: Fighter can survive 1,500 foot drop. How is that even game balance? You just die, no one would question the lethality of that kind of fall! Or when a creature is given an extraordinary ability that still has heavy limitations on its effectiveness simply so it isn't too powerful, even though something producing that effect would be much stronger in the real world. If it's magic, I can deal with it, because it's just "the way the magic works." But don't tone down physics itself just because you think it's too lethal!
I hate that every class must be the equal of every other in overall combat effectiveness in 3.x D&D. A wizard's fireball does, on average, less damage than a fighter's sword, and the potential for more is not that good since the sheer number of dice pulls the actual result closer and closer towards the middle as you go up in level. The only advantage they have in damage dealing is area effects and the fact they can spread that damage out, not that it's really all that much overall.
Let the mages be pathetic weaklings at low levels and be gods at high levels! It makes sense! Most forms of lore feature them that way. They still do trump every other class in overall power merely because of all the effects they can produce, in and out of combat, given time, but DAMN 3.x seems to have made them weak from everything I've heard about older editions. I want sorcerers and wizards, and yes, clerics and druids, who can wade on the field of battle with spells to devastate armies, cities, even whole nations. Sure, I can do it with the old "NPC found a strange artifact/spell/whatever", but that seems cheap because the players have no chance to do the same. I'm a strong proponent of the "If the players can do it, so can the enemy, and vice versa." (That is, when using opponenets with class levels).
Going along the lines that combat magic is too weak, I hate it when I have a creature like a powerful demon, and his vaunted spell-like abilities are actually far less effective than just smacking his foes
Saern you're my freakin' hero! Totally. You are absolutely right on. I had a paladin in my latest "ultra-canon" epic campaign poisoned with Dragon Bile that had been slipped into his food and didn't even have to roll to beat its DC!! He just burped and dabbed the corners of his mouth with a hankie! How cruddy is that! Not to mention I really liked the second ed. idea of poison doing damage per round. The idea of attribute damage and then another dose a minute later is cool--but I find I don't really even care about being poisoned. Granted there's poisons and poisons--many indeed do make you sick, but gosh it'd be nice if poison was something to be feared a bit more. Right now it's just a motivation to camp for the night.
I hate it when people say "I hate people who..." in the rant thread, even when I do it to sometimes. You should hate the act, not the person, I think.
Heh. Yeah. I guess the "hate" thing was more to keep in the spirit of the post than personal feelings of hatred toward anyone really. I guess it'd be more accurate to say "it bugs to the point of driving me freaking nuts when people..." Sorry if the hate thing felt personal--just rantin'.
I like it when the following people post: F2K, Saern, Sebastian, Fake Healer, Dryder, GGG, theacemu, Koldoon Heathansson, Lilith, Tequilla Sunrise, Grimcleaver, and Aberzombie. And Jeremy MacDonald.
Wow. Someone LIKES it when I post? *grins* I was starting to feel like the grumpy old man who shakes his broom and yells at the kids to get of his lawn ya' whippersnappers.
I'm still composing a personal "pick your six" which I thought was an awesome post that bares resurrection. Anyway thanks much for the compliment!
Its fine to be the grumpy old man. I don't always (or ever) agree with all of those people, but they are the people who either make me think or entertain me, or both.
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I hate that Ultradan's job keeps him from posting much on the boards. This guy's insight and humor is badly missed and his company should allow access to Paizo's site for him because he is a Messageboard Treasure.
I also hate that "Down and out" and "recovering with bedrest" is no longer something that happens in D&D. Maybe once you reach 10% or lower of your max hit points you should need x days rest where x is the amount of hps below the 10% mark you reached.FH
Say, that down and out dynamic..where was it first published? I'm very much interested in reading that, I've been working on adding a white wolf dynamic (ok, hurt, injured, incapacitated, dying, dead) to D&D's hit points. Maybe in incriments of 20%?
::attempting to ressurrect thread::
I have never played another system besides D&D, I was trying to come up with a mechanic. If there are any similarities to pre-existing mechanics it is strictly that I am a genius and missed my true calling.....game design.
FH(suddenly feeling much more top-heavy)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Is that second or first edition on mutants and masterminds? I only have first edition...Speaking of, while mutants and masterminds is a fine game, I never got past the original Marvel Super Heroes game. I love that game. Maybe because it was my first rpg. It was so unrealistic, but it made so much sense, much like the comic books of the age. Mutants and Masterminds and the d6 DC Heroes game are much better suited to more "realistic" play, I think.
I thought it was both, but maybe it's just 2e. Here's a quote from an rpg.net review of the game (which also includes a comparison to MSH):
The RulesThe character creation rules are fantastic, but the game system is where M&M really shines like a lighthouse in a foggy bay.
At first glance, it looks like the basic D20 mechanic. Roll a twenty-sider, add your bonuses together and compare it to a target number. From there, however, the designer takes the D20 thing and contorts it into something entirely different...and, in my opinion, better.
The design of M&M goes a bit off the beaten path, which only adds to its charm (at least to me). To satisfy those who want the rules to be a bit more conventional or detailed, Mr. Kenson added sidebars that offer optional rules. This strikes me as a wise decision. The more gamers you can please, the better off you're going to be and I think he bent over backward to ensure that nearly everyone would be happy.
Now, we move on to combat.
The "to hit" system is essentially an extention of the task resolution rules, which is fine by me. Just roll that D20, add in your bonuses and hope you roll equal or higher than the opponent's Defense. Simple, effective and consistent.
The part of combat that really stands out though is the way damage is handled. When a character gets smacked (or shot, blasted, poked in the eyes or whatever), he has to make a Damage save versus a DC based on how powerful the attack is. If the save succeeds, he shrugs off the damage effortlessly. If, on the other hand, it fails, the character suffers damage. The more the roll failed by, the worse the effects are.
In true comicbook fashion, death only occurs if a deliberate attempt on a character's life is made. The book contains an optional rule that makes death more common for those GMs looking for a more realistic treatment of the genre.The damage mechanic may look wonky at first, but it works beautifully, especially in conjunction with Hero Points which can be spent to alter the effects of damage. The only other game I've come across that had a similar mechanic was the second Buck Rogers game. Needless to say, I think the M&M version works much better.
The combat section of the book covers all the bases as far as I can tell. It features maneuvers, gang-ups, destroying surrounding terrain, mental combat, modifiers and a lot more. I was unable to find any glaring omissions, nor any mishandling of the stuff it did cover.
All in all, combat is a breeze to run. Moreso, in my opinion, than any other superhero RPG since the original Marvel Super Heroes game. And frankly, I'm not even sure that even MSH can equal M&M's combat system.
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I TRULY hate that for economic reasons that I comprehend but irregardless hate, there isn't a monthly Dungeon magazine, and a bimonthly Dungeons of Greyhawk magazine, and a bimonthly Dungeons of Eberron magazine, and a bimonthly Dungeons of the Forgotten Realms magazine, and...a....biweekly Dungeons and Dragons Adventures: Sagas of the Viking Warriors: Tales of Heroes Worthy of VALHALLA magazine.
I hate that instead, Greyhawk enthusiasts feel like they have to fight with Eberron enthusiasts and Forgotten Realms enthusiasts (and vice versa) like three two-headed dogs at one bowl of dogfood.
I hate that there aren't more choices out there of campaign worlds, like in the olden days.
I hate that that level of choice, among other things, put TSR in a position where it had to eat its own feet not to starve.
I hate that, all too frequently, good people get together to try and accomplish some worthy endeavor or another, and it all devolves into a petty peepeeing contest and/or political battle that noone ever wins, and everyone loses.
And I really, really, really hate the fact that adversity brings out the best and worst in people. Myself included.
And I hate that Rob Kuntz cruises onto this board, and I can't think of anything remotely interesting to say.
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Ever order food at a drivethru? Why do they even ask you what you want? It has nothing to do with anything!
I feel like just telling them, "yeah, um throw $4.50 worth of food in a bag and some kind of drink. I don't care what, by the time I figure out what it is I'll be 10 miles down the road." That way, at least I won't be mad.
And if they tell you to pull forward, you're really hosed. Now you are going to wait 20 minutes for the food you didn't order.
Ever order food at a drivethru? Why do they even ask you what you want? It has nothing to do with anything!
The Carl's Jr that is right by my work is really really really bad about this, especially in the morning shift. When I'm hungry and in a hurry and late for work. I feel sorry for the cashier - she just places the darn order, it's the grill crew who are such total rejects.
What I don't like is when I order something a particular way, emphasizing and stressing what I want (steaks well done - no pink at all, don't tell me it's the damn lights) and not get it. Same with no onions - raw onions and raw garlic give me heartburn. I always order WITHOUT ONIONS and still they put those bile-inducing pieces of vegetable on my burger. Grrrrrrr! Taking them off my burger doesn't help - they still leave their foulness on my burger! (Grilled onions I dig, though. With grilled mushrooms. Mmm...fungus...dangit, now I'm hungry)
Ah yes, the vagaries of the food world. How I wish I could change it with a restaurant of my own where I could prepare brown-bag lunches for those on the run and feasts-a-plenty for those that have time to dine.
My Rant of the Day:
The Overboss's Wife, who gets whats she wants because she sleeps with the Overboss, who somehow feels that she needs to be "involved" and help make business decisions, when she really needs to stay the $#*@ away and shut the hell up. A lot. Stay the hell away from me, Wife of the Overboss! You are making bad decisions that you don't have to clean up when it all comes tumbling down because you "thought" (and I use that term loosely) it was a good idea. Leave. Exit. Amscray!
*Release Inner Kaiju - stomp stomp stomp! Rahhr!*
*breathe radioactive DOOOOOOOM on the Overboss's Wife!*
*Critical Hit!*
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I guess I'm getting old. I like roleplaying, and it doesn't bother me to make PCs stick with the old 4d6 in sequence, reroll one and swap two (or to play such characters, even if everyone else is playing a half-warforged psio-gestalt-ninja-warmage with six 18s). Usually no one gets stuck with anything below a 9 or 10 this way, and usually no one has more than one 17 or higher. As long as you start this way and stay this way--and maintain your rule zero DM prerogative, things usually don't get out of hand, and if they do it's because you threw something hard at them, and you've got to fudge rolls to keep from slaughtering people, rather than the other way round.
The 4d6 system never worked for our group. We want our characters to EXCEL at something and then let the other characters make up for their weaknesses. The games that I run focus on teamwork and party dynamics. I give the players anywhere from 72 to 78 points to spend on stats, but I don't use the DMG point-buy system. Each point is one-for-one used to buy a stat. With 72 points, you COULD have 6 12s, but nobody wants to play a character who is just slightly above average across the board. He will never really stand out and never do anything noteworthy. Mostly, we'll get someone with a stat set that looks like 18, 10, 14, 8, 14, 8. If this were a fighter, he'd be amazingly strong, fairly tough, not too bright, fairly wise, and a bit gruff and ugly. That's fine! Fighters don't NEED to be terribly smart or or pretty! If you WANTED your character to be smart, maybe average out the strength and dexterity and use extra points from wisdom to beef intelligence. Anyway, my point is, this system always leads to characters that are excellent in some ways and weak in others. You need to get your group together and have them make their characters all at once. If someone is dead-set on a fighter, your group knows that they have that aspect covered. If 3 people want to be wizards, figure out a way that they can still make the party functional while having the fun they want to have. Sometimes, in these situations, I will MAKE a player play something that he's never played before just because I like to bring people out of their shells. The greatest and most well-received game I ever ran was played with character concepts that *I* designed and handed out. DMs are in control of the game. Period. If your players whine endlessly about a rule call, tell them to shut up about it or they will receive experience penalties.
Another thing about treasure, encounters, and xp... I hate encounter xp. Calculating xp based on the creature's difficulty and then taking all sorts of crap into account... I hate it. I hate it all. In my games, each game session is worth a certain amount of xp. If you sneak past a group of monsters or convert them to your side, you get the same amount of xp that you would get if you had gone in and slaughtered them all. The players, at the end of each session, cast 'role-play votes' that are worth a certain amount of xp each to other players. These votes can be given to someone who pulled off an amazing combat manuever, who acted out a particular accent well, or who kept the party together with diplomacy and reasoning. Players cannot vote for themselves. This system MAKES players take the other players' actions into account and focus more on playing the game and having fun than killing monsters and looting treasure. I ran a game of 5 12th level characters in Forgotten Realms and there were only 3 magical items in the entire party, the most powerful of which was a +2 mithril bastard sword. Magical items and powerful twinkery are not the focus. Fun is. Characters should not advance from level 4 to 5 faster simply because they went on a goblin murdering spree. They should advance in level at a fairly consistent rate, growing and learning from their adventures as they go. Role-play votes are there to give a character recognition for their deeds. There is no need for mass homicide simply because your character is ALMOST to level 10. Experience awards happen at the end of each session, not at the end of each combat. If smashing monsters and looting treasure is all your group is interested in, invest in Hackmaster.
Director of Sales
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I always order WITHOUT ONIONS and still they put those bile-inducing pieces of vegetable on my burger. Grrrrrrr! Taking them off my burger doesn't help - they still leave their foulness on my burger!
I had the same issue until I realized that the secret is not to tell them what you don't want (i.e. "no onions"), but rather tell them what you do want (i.e. ketchup and mustard ONLY). This eliminates any ambiguity in the order-taking and burger-making process, so it decreases the likelihood of mistakes.
Now my orders are only screwed up about 89% of the time, rather than the usual 90% of the time.
If smashing monsters and looting treasure is all your group is interested in, invest in Hackmaster.
I dislike folks who think their style of play is better than mine. :[
Accidently buying "easy water removal" chaulk (says this in ultra fine print) to re-seal the base of the toilet instead of the "water-proof" kind. Letting it dry overnight just to wake up to dissolved liquid chaulk all over the floor.
from a purely DM point of view, i have to vent a little about last night's session....Six player characters, five in attendance last night....and the party breaks up and goes in FOUR different directions, each of them wanting to know why i'm taking a while to deal with their issues. I managed to keep all of them addressed and dealt with, but by the time they got together, i felt like i'd run a marathon, and i was so disheartened by the gameplay that i could barely have cared less what they wanted to do from that point forward. If they'd done this in a dungeon environment, i'd have brought back my random encounter tables....and hang fudging the rolls in the party's favor
from a purely DM point of view, i have to vent a little about last night's session....Six player characters, five in attendance last night....and the party breaks up and goes in FOUR different directions (...)
I've had this happen, and it's often quite frustrating. Particularly if the four different directions aren't interesting.
A big contibutor to these problems can be trying for "realism". If you require PCs to meet with sponsors for PrCs, roleplay haggling at the market, and other time consuming individual things, then you'll have to deal with lots of splits.
Splitting the party-- especially when it frustrates you-- is a good time to drop OOC and explain your frustration. Instead of roleplaying out the tasks, summarize non-party activity with a die roll or a quick "write down what you buy" or "make a list of the stuff you do before setting off the next morning". It's not as much fun for the one person, but the group as whole gets to the good stuff faster.
Saern I played many a first edition wizards and third edition wizard will kick the first edition wizards butt. Especially at first level, you had one spell and you rolled 1st level hit points.
The real difference was not in the mages at all but in the fighters, clerics and thieves. With no feats and less magic there really was an upper limit to how great your fighter could become. Not so with the mages, every level made them a good deal more powerful until they got into the high levels and in comparison they where simply awesome while even the most stalwart fighter had more or less maxed out 10 levels ago. Pretty much a fighter was more or less capped at doing maybe 20 hps of damage in a round. No real way to hit many opponents etc. A high level mage could not only do a lot of physical damage but by the time one got to the higher levels it was all about the save or die magic.
If you want that powerful mage feel the simplest way would be to leave the mages alone but eliminate feats, bonus to stats and the ability to gain extra attacks with with a higher base attack bonus. That should give a fairly authentic 1st edition feel.
Ever order food at a drivethru? Why do they even ask you what you want? It has nothing to do with anything!
I feel like just telling them, "yeah, um throw $4.50 worth of food in a bag and some kind of drink. I don't care what, by the time I figure out what it is I'll be 10 miles down the road." That way, at least I won't be mad.
And if they tell you to pull forward, you're really hosed. Now you are going to wait 20 minutes for the food you didn't order.
ROTFL
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Interesting p.o.v on the novels, Vatt- What are you reading nowadays, just out of curiosity? Where do you think things should go with these world novelwise?And finally, someone needs to tell Ed Greenwood and R.A. Salvatore to take a break and refocus. Greenwood is probably unredeemable (anyone other than me here who has read his "Spellfire" novel?), but Salvatore, despite the gawdawful "Cleric's Quintet" and a general overall plunge in quality, is merely in need of some very serious refocusing. The moralising and quasi-philosophy in his intros now make a televangelist look subtle; reading the musings of Drizzt on topics like ethics and the purpose of our existence reminds me of the deep thinking of Vin Diesel's character in The fast and the furious - "When I'm in my car, I feel free". Without some urgent assistance, Salvatore is running the risk of becoming fantasy's Tom Clancy - ponderous, pretentious and generally annoying, all while trying to write what essentially amounts to fun action adventures - if he isn't there already.
Hmmm... Right now I'm reading Erich Fromm's "Escape from freedom", but that's not the issue here... While my favourite authors are probably James Ellroy and Jared Diamond, the best fantasy out there, in my opinion, is Glen Cook's "Black Company" and "Garrett P.I." series; his new project, the "Instrumentalities of the night" series started off really well, so I'm quite excited about the next installment. The last fantasy stuff I read was Richard Baker's "Last Mythal" and Richard Lee Byers' "Year of rogue dragons" trilogies, both of which I found rather enjoyable. I'm also chewing on the George R.R. Martin series, which is also very good.
The main problem I have with RAV isn't that he writes about FG, but rather that his later books are trying way too hard to be "meaningful", rather than just mere entertainment. Simply put, he does not have the chops to pull that off in a convincing manner - few writers do. However, he most certainly does have the chops to write fun adventures; for example, if you read the last, highly variable, omnibus, the books about Entreri and Jarlaxle are fun, swashbuckling crime capers, while the Drizzt and friends storyline is essentially whining half-assed "introspection". More gore, dammit!
I think what RAV needs to do is to realise that his great creation isn't Drizzt and especially not Wulfgar or Catti-Brie, but rather Menzoberranzan, and go back to the intrigue and adventure setting that framed his first two series. Eventually, he could just outsource it - the six-book series on the War of the Spider Queen, though inconsistent, was better than most of his own production. He could also take a cue from the aforementioned FG series and write something that actually changes the map (I'm partial to getting rid of that annoying git Bruenor Battlehammer), rather than playing it safe. In short, what I'd like to see is a return to high-velocity Underdark adventure, such as the chronicles of a Bregan D'Aerthe-backed praetorian power struggle or some such thing. Instead, we'll probably get more of Wulfgar's ruminations on the inherent contradictions between the expectations of his warrior and fatherhood roles, and how this conflict upsets the wife and kids...
Instead, we'll probably get more of Wulfgar's ruminations on the inherent contradictions between the expectations of his warrior and fatherhood roles, and how this conflict upsets the wife and kids...
Wulfgar's married now? Thank the gods I gave up on Salvatore after reading the Dark Elf trilogy. They were pretty cool but none of his other stuff ever sparked enough interest in me to buy. Not after I read "Canticle."
And since this is a rant thread, hands up who's sick of fantasy novels coming in packs? Enough already! Are all these writers incapable of telling a good story in a short space or something? I always imagine pitching an idea for a fantasy novel as something like this:
Idealistic Young Author: Check it out, it's original, action-packed, and a whole new take on the genre. Everyone will be copying this after it comes out!
Publisher: How many in the series past the initial three?
IYA: I... series? I mean, no, it's just... one book.
Publisher: What, you mean it resolves at the end? Pass.
I mean why? I think the unnecessary sequel is a pox on our entertainment industry. But with fantasy novels they aren't even sequels! They're just really, really really long stories. And most of it is filler anyway. AARGH! They could be so much better than they are if publishers didn't allow authors to ponderously tell a one book story across three mighty tomes.
And if you absolutely MUST have sequels, then how about something more like Lankhmar, or the Flashman books (I love those), or even the James Bond books, where a sequel is the same character having a totally different adventure, rather than a continuation of the same fricken story. It's like every fantasy series is like watching a horribly convoluted, self-referential and long TV series like Buffy. Sure it has it's place, but sometimes you just want a one-off movie.
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Word. It becomes even more annoying when you consider, for example, the otherwise enjoyable "Last Mythal" series - three short books that did not need separation in the first place. I don't mind long books in the slightest, but the serialisation of fantasy tales is rapidly becoming something of a farce.
And, yes, Wulfgar has found a soulmate. And adopted a child. He is ready to settle down. It makes for great adventure, no? And, to put it very mildly, "Canticle" was f!+#ing horrible. R.A. Salvatore needs a serious talking-to, and you, Kahoolin, seems like just the one to do it. Make it so. Please?
Blame the purchasing habits of the mainstream consumer who doesn't slap ten bucks down at random. They'll go at random until they find something they like, then clean out that series so they don't "waste" their money on a bad gamble.
Me? Between the few dozen fantasy books I've purchased, only the Dune ones were sequelized. Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman can put things out at random and I'll pick those up.
Favoured book? Colors of Magic from the Magic: The Gathering series. It was a collection of short stories. I WANT more like that book...
I think the unnecessary sequel is a pox on our entertainment industry. But with fantasy novels they aren't even sequels! They're just really, really really long stories. And most of it is filler anyway. (...)
I'm coming to agree. In High School, I was a big proponent of long series-- if I was going to invest in a character, they should go do lots of stuff. In college that backed off, and a little later I realized that even a trilogy's too much for many authors and concepts.
While I still like series (Harry Dresden's my most recent find), one book novels and short story collections fit better these days.
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And since this is a rant thread, hands up who's sick of fantasy novels coming in packs? Enough already! Are all these writers incapable of telling a good story in a short space or something?
Not to mention that many of these books are separated by 6 months to a year. That's why I like some of the series they have put out where each book is a separate story. For example, I can't remember the series name, but the book was Escape from Undermountain. Just the one book, but it was (for me) a very enjoyable read.
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Director of Sales
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And since this is a rant thread, hands up who's sick of fantasy novels coming in packs? Enough already! Are all these writers incapable of telling a good story in a short space or something?
*Hand!*
*HAND!* *HAND!* *HAND!*
(I'm looking at you, Robert Jordan.)
/me got burned. I started that series expecting a six book run, and thinking that that was too much. Turns out, I was right. Grrr.
I don't like wanting to rant, but being so worked up I can't think of what to write. On second thought, that'll save me from making an ass of myself (haha...somewhat).
There's too much fluff. PRCs, spells, feats...how about time? What I need is more *time* to use & enjoy the stuff that's already out!
Having a full long weekend planned, only to discover that's not going to happen...
Hubby: "What's this picture?"
Wifey: "That's the deck we're building this weekend."
**stunned hubby**
Did I mention I hate unexpected expenses too?
**weeping hubby**
I don't like how I keep buying new dice, but always fall back on the originals that 'roll better'.
I don't like how getting a group together & organized feels suspiciously like work at times.
I don't like starting new characters that never see use after level 2. Wasted fantastic character ideas!
I do like how D&D still keeps me entertained and is nigh always fresh. I do like having more people willing to play than can be accomodated per campaign (changing roster). I do like Wendy's triple cheese burgers every once in awhile, although I don't need that much.
I think that signals lunch.
-J
PS. I do like threads like this allowing people a chance to just complain once in awhile. It's almost like someone's listening ;-)
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PS. I do like threads like this allowing people a chance to just complain once in awhile. It's almost like someone's listening ;-)
We are listening. Most of us have had or are having the same stuff happen to us. It's nice to vent without having to climb the tower and start picking off people;)
FH (is he serious?)
I hate GNOMES!!! Actually, I love gnomes... from 1st edition. I also love and appreciate the writings of Weis and Jickman, but ever since Dragonlance came out, there has been this push to make ALL gnomes tinkers and mad scientists.
Even worse, WOTC now has made bard the favored class for gnomes, and not illusionist. Gnomes are a joke now, a throw-away race, a comic foil. Need something blowed up? Gnome NPC! Crazy old inventor? Gnome! Steam-powered bow?!?! Gods-damned right, it's gnomes...
You know, the gnomes of Dragonlance were cool, but no-one ever seems to confuse the dwarves of DnD with the retarded gully dwarves of Dragonlance. Why why why does the industry insist on this blatant display of racism. Maybe I should find a sleazy lawyer and file a class-action lawsuit on behaldf of disenfranchised illusionists and tricksters...
Oh, and I hate how elves are now all anime, and halflings too instead of being fat little hobbits. But I truly madly deeply LOATHE the joke that gnomes are. Grow up, and return them to the legitimate race they were in the past.
I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I hate how save DCs don't scale up like saving throws.
I'm pretty sure it has already been said numerous times, but the fact that a wizard HAS to take spell focus and greater spell focus to have a reasonable chance for his spell to go through is insane. At least in 3.0 it gave a +2 to DCs, which was to counter a +2 from the appropriate feats (iron will, lightining reflexes and great fortitude).
Has it stands now, no way a wizard with a normal Int score, no Greater spell focus can get spells to go unresisted at high levels.
It pisses me off because I'm a DM and a wizard player...so I get a lot of resists.
I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I hate how save DCs don't scale up like saving throws.
I'm pretty sure it has already been said numerous times, but the fact that a wizard HAS to take spell focus and greater spell focus to have a reasonable chance for his spell to go through is insane. At least in 3.0 it gave a +2 to DCs, which was to counter a +2 from the appropriate feats (iron will, lightining reflexes and great fortitude).
Has it stands now, no way a wizard with a normal Int score, no Greater spell focus can get spells to go unresisted at high levels.
It pisses me off because I'm a DM and a wizard player...so I get a lot of resists.
I think they assume that spell casters have a high ability score to begin with then dump all their ability rasies into that ability and then get magic items to raise that ability. It's the only way to really get fairly high save DCs. I think they also assume that you will know which is the low save of your foe. Kinda like "Hey he looks like a fighter I should use a spell with a Will save" or "He is a sneaky Rogue type I should use a spell with a Fortitude save." Yeah the game design make a lot of assupmtions. ;)
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Director of Narrative
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And since this is a rant thread, hands up who's sick of fantasy novels coming in packs? Enough already! Are all these writers incapable of telling a good story in a short space or something?*Hand!*
*HAND!* *HAND!* *HAND!*
(I'm looking at you, Robert Jordan.)
/me got burned. I started that series expecting a six book run, and thinking that that was too much. Turns out, I was right. Grrr.
Awww Cosmo, he's the only good one in the bunch. I'm just scared he's not gonna live long enough to finish the darned thing. I started predicting thirteen books somewhere around book 5, and it looks like that might be the case.
People that, no matter what, can't see anything postive about a hobby that they spend a large amount of time with. People that will trip over themselves to post about some minor thing that violates something that strikes them as against "canon" (even when its not really, its just against how THEY interpreted canon), but people that don't have the time to post a reveiw or a word of thanks about something that is good to them.
I hate GNOMES!!! Actually, I love gnomes... from 1st edition. I also love and appreciate the writings of Weis and Jickman, but ever since Dragonlance came out, there has been this push to make ALL gnomes tinkers and mad scientists.
Even worse, WOTC now has made bard the favored class for gnomes, and not illusionist. Gnomes are a joke now, a throw-away race, a comic foil. Need something blowed up? Gnome NPC! Crazy old inventor? Gnome! Steam-powered bow?!?! Gods-damned right, it's gnomes...
You know, the gnomes of Dragonlance were cool, but no-one ever seems to confuse the dwarves of DnD with the retarded gully dwarves of Dragonlance. Why why why does the industry insist on this blatant display of racism. Maybe I should find a sleazy lawyer and file a class-action lawsuit on behaldf of disenfranchised illusionists and tricksters...
Oh, and I hate how elves are now all anime, and halflings too instead of being fat little hobbits. But I truly madly deeply LOATHE the joke that gnomes are. Grow up, and return them to the legitimate race they were in the past.
I love gnomes, 3.x gnomes. First edition D&D gnomes were dwarves with a sense of humor and lived in forests. Oh and they all looked like garden gnomes out of some wacked out English garden. Blahhh!!! Gnomes are far cooler now, they have tans and you won't confuse them for dwarves anymore.
My first third edition D&D character was a gnome bard, Neilin Bob. At the time it was the most unusual race class combo I could think of, but it worked great. Oh everybody laughed at him at first, but he has become a icon in our gaming group appearing in taverns in many campaigns from different Dms. When we saw D&D 3.5 we knew the gnome bard was a natural. The bard class opens up the gnome for different charismatic skills like bluff, important in any practical joke. The specialist illusionist of 3.0 D&D as the gnome favorite class, just seemed contrived.
If you ask me the D&D gnome did grow up and into it's own.
So did the D&D halfling. The third edition halfling also grew up, lost some weight got a belly button ring and a whole lot cooler.
As for the anime elves, I am with you, they seem kinda gay.
I´m just mad at my ISP. Since sunday, I had troubles connecting to the ´net (at home, mind you), and called there several times, even bought a new modem, and today (!) they tell me that they have technical troubles since sunday ! AARGH ! Why didn´t they tell earlier ? What needs ALL WEEK LONG to repair ? I just can´t believe it, and I lost a few ebay auctions because of this crap, a Living Greyhawk Gazetteer went away for 6.50 Euros, a single current issue of Dragon or Dungeon is more expensive in my FLGS.
(But I just won several Dungeons in the 30s for about 2-3 Euro each, so thats ok :-)
Stefan
I hate it when other players in my group cancel at the last minute (for things they knew about weeks ahead of time)...
Indeed. Part of being a good DM is having your game organized and on time.
...I do like threads like this allowing people a chance to just complain once in awhile. It's almost like someone's listening ;-)
I'm sure i'm not the only person reading these rant posts saying "Oh, i can soo identify with that" or "Yes, i remember that from my groups, that vexxes me too." You must be great fun in gaming sessions if you use half your sense of humor. I also agree it's better to let people vent. I think it helps them not to bottle up small irritations and turn them into a Molotov cocktail later during D&D.
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I was very disappointed yesterday when I went into my FLGS wanting very badly to buy something cool. I had lots of money in my pocket and wanted it to go to some new adventures, but as I stood there and looked at row after row of alternate rule books (The Players' Guide to Haggling with One Legged Gnomes, etc.) I began to get a little depressed. Are there no companies putting out adventures with regularity anymore, or do the adventures sell quickly leaving only goofy rulebooks on the shelves? My favorite time of every month is when I get my adventure fix in the form of the latest issue of Dungeon in my mailbox. However, I absolutely DEVOUR the magazine so quickly that I am left with 3 1/2 weeks of waiting for the next issue. Could Paizo perhaps quadrouple the staff for Dungeon and make it into a weekly? ;) I would pay the subscription fees, no matter how much they would be.
Back on target, I already have the brilliant Red Hand of Doom and all of the adventures by Necromancer Games and Goodman Games. I left my FLGS disappointed and empty handed. I miss the days when 90% of the books at the FLGS were cool modules and there weren't so many variant rulebooks.
In response to Sir Kaikillah:
My first 3.0 character was a gnome illusionist/rogue/arcane trickster that treaded the fine line of traditional gnome -- Lots of practical jokes, clever cunning, and the use of generally non-lethal means to confound enemies and victims. Maybe the game designers have done a poor job of describing gnome culture or have a poor concept of how gnomes are unique, but no-one shold ever confuse gnomes and "dour and taciturn" dwarves. As I recall, in the early days of 3.x, there was a stunningly well-developed article about forest gnomes in Dragon magazine that described the penchant for tricks and fun possessed by typical gnomes.
I could even accept the the lack of imagination that leads to people thinking of gnomes as "forest dwarves", but it is the nearly omnipresent misconception that all gnomes are tinker gnomes that burns my butt. I point again to the ludicrous steam-powered bow of gnomish design from the Arms and Equipment Guide. Nearly every group Ihave played with in the past decade or so thinks of gnomes as reckless tech-nerds, and asinine examples like that stupid bow only serve to reinforce the joke that gnomes have become.
Don't get me totally wrong -- I like gnomish bards, as the gnome outlook and the bard class both mesh favorably into a trickster-like outlook, assuming one wants to play that kind of bard. It sometimes seems as if as DnD progresses, the various designers don't want to drop any core races, but really don't know what to do with gnomes. After all, they weren't in Tolkien or Lieber, just some obscure Germanic folktales (and now Harry Potter). So hey, we have gnomes, and a reworked class -- umm, gnomes prefer that class, yeah.
As is probably obvious, I am a very old gamer (I remember Chainmail), and somewhat curmudgeonly. I know mythologies and stereotypes evolve and change. I can accept the Mt. Zogonia parody where every gnome is a bard with a hamster named Mr. Whiskers in a pocket, but I will not accept the tinker gnome stereotype. And those who play or present such world-specific creatures as the one true canon will be derided by me, with their dwarves being considered retarded, and their halflings being feral adn their orcs noble savages (thanks, Eberron -- "vat a tweest!") and elves apathetic intellectuals (oh wait -- ummm, big ears!!!).
GNO GNOME TINKERS!!!!!
In response to Sir Kaikillah:
My first 3.0 character was a gnome illusionist/rogue/arcane trickster that treaded the fine line of traditional gnome -- Lots of practical jokes, clever cunning, and the use of generally non-lethal means to confound enemies and victims.
Neilen Bob was a lot like that as a bard, accept he could be quite lethal. He was also the parties cook and everyones buddy. Hawaiian tradition has menehune, small tricksters he cast illusions to fool humans.
Maybe the game designers have done a poor job of describing gnome culture or have a poor concept of how gnomes are unique, but no-one shold ever confuse gnomes and "dour and taciturn" dwarves.
early editions of D&D made gnomes funny forest dwarves
As I recall, in the early days of 3.x, there was a stunningly well-developed article about forest gnomes in Dragon magazine that described the penchant for tricks and fun possessed by typical gnomes.
I liked this article accept for the stuff on cone hats. Probably because the cone hats remind me of garden gnomes.
I could even accept the the lack of imagination that leads to people thinking of gnomes as "forest dwarves", but it is the nearly omnipresent misconception that all gnomes are tinker gnomes that burns my butt. I point again to the ludicrous steam-powered bow of gnomish design from the Arms and Equipment Guide. Nearly every group Ihave played with in the past decade or so thinks of gnomes as reckless tech-nerds, and asinine examples like that stupid bow only serve to reinforce the joke that gnomes have become.
I think the tinker gnome was unique, ohh twenty years ago but the joke is over, this I agree.
Don't get me totally wrong -- I like gnomish bards, as the gnome outlook and the bard class both mesh favorably into a trickster-like outlook, assuming one wants to play that kind of bard.
The bard gnome has made quite an impact with a small gaming group on Maui.
I've ignored this thread in the past,...
And I hope I don't repeat what everyone else says...but...
I strongly dislike that D&D has turned into such a business venture. In 1st edition, there was only a handfull of hardback books available in all the years of the game. I sometimes (for my employment) go to court for my clients, and I'll tell you what-- many 3.5 players walk into the game store Saturday morning with more books in tow than any lawyer I've ever seen walk into court with.
I strongly dislike that the game needs to produce endless Tomes/Races/Dragon/etc. books to fund the hobby production industry.
I love the conciseness that 3.5 brings to the game mechanics, and makes it more understandable, measurable, and stragegical. A definite plus. But can we do it in 5 or 6 books. I do have the money, but I don't have the time, energy, or desire to read several dozen books and try to put them all to memory for use in the game. This is a no win delima for me, hence I put it in the Rants section.
I also significantly despise endless variants on the same old ideas. I think there must be at least 50 different types of Dwarves by now given all the multi-campaign, climate, etc based books that waste time and space rehashing the same old basic dwarf description. The same is true for many other elements of the game.
I have to say, I've really grown to hate Robert Jordan's work. FOCUS. LACKS. FOCUS. MAKING UP SILLY WORDS TO REFLECT SILLY CULTURES DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE NEW TOLKIEN. Robert Jordan needs to get a job. So does his editor. Because 75% of every one of his novels could easily be trimmed.
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I have to say, I've really grown to hate Robert Jordan's work. FOCUS. LACKS. FOCUS. MAKING UP SILLY WORDS TO REFLECT SILLY CULTURES DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE NEW TOLKIEN. Robert Jordan needs to get a job. So does his editor. Because 75% of every one of his novels could easily be trimmed.
I read 5 or 6 of his books (roughly 4000 pages)and I have to say GIVE ME BACK THAT F*%@%NG TIME YOU SNORE INDUCING D$*KHEAD!!!!! I'D LIKE TO SHOVE A HERON MARKED SWORD UP YOUR WORDY, UPTIGHT, REAR YOU SELF-INDULGENT PR*%K!!!
FH (grumble, grumble)