I got my first three rejections today. I have no pride, and really want to get better at this query game, so I'm wondering if it is acceptable for me to post them here for feedback. I know that doesn't guarantee any responses, but I thought I'd check before I go ahead and do it.
BTW - by feedback, I mean... Is it too short? Was it not clear what I was saying? Was I unknowingly hitting on a topic that had already been covered? Was it just plain stupid? :)
so I'm wondering if it is acceptable for me to post them here for feedback.
well they are yours you can do anything you want with them...
there have been queries - both successful and unsuccessful - posted here on the boards in the past.
The best part about workshopping is that you get honest opinions and advice.
The worst part about workshopping is that you get honest opinions and advice.
You have been warned. : )
-James
Like I said, I have no pride. Flame away! Please include some constructive criticism that I can dig out of the coals, though.
Rejected - The First:
SPELLCRAFT - BANSKO DISC: The 3,600-year-old bronze Bansko Disc is considered the oldest-known image of the cosmos. In competent hands, it is a great aid for those interested in astronomy, astrology, and the study of heavenly bodies. It is also a repository of various spells ancient scholars used to divine the future, and understand the natural world around them. This Spellcraft article will include new divination and transmutation spells, with a particular focus on Astrology and the secrets of the natural world. This article will be approximately 2,000 words in length.
Rejected - The Second:
ECOLOGY OF THE LOCATHAH: In order to bring these creatures of the deep to life, I'd focus on their semi-nomadic tribal culture. I will illustrate their belief that every creature has a spirit that must be honored, and how that belief system impacts every level of their culture. The goddess Eadro, who created both the locathah and the merfolk, will be given some detail in a sidebar, as will a sample Eadroan cleric. Given that locathah are often mistaken for sahuagin, distinctions will be drawn between the two, with useful information for DMs to reveal with Knowledge (nature) checks. This article will be approximately 3,000 words in length.
Well, one thing right off the bat: Locathah are humanoids, and so therefore Knowledge (local) is the skill for learning thingies about them.
I don't see specific problems with your query. Both are clear, and both are concise - good qualities to have, in my opinion.
I've never written an ecology article, so I'm not sure what sort of information grabs Wes's attention. I would think, though, providing the details that you did about things such as their deity, their nomadic life, their respect for the spirit, and so on are good points to cover.
Remember that you might have run into something completely out of your control - somebody else may have submitted this recently.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark on the Spellcraft article and guess that seeing "the future" with too many spells is a bad idea. You certainly had some interesting flavor (though 3600 years really isn't that old ;) ).
One bit of information lacking from your Spellcraft query would be the range of spell levels in the article. I don't know if that's important info to give to Wes or not, but it's something I would think I'd want to see were I in his position.
*shrug* I think they're well enough written. You may just have hit on some topics Wes either didn't like or couldn't use.
Well, one thing right off the bat: Locathah are humanoids, and so therefore Knowledge (local) is the skill for learning thingies about them.
Already a help.
...pulls finger out of place where it shouldn't be...
One thing you have to remember is they are not neccessarily rejecting you because of quality or because they don't think you won't write a good article. There are a lot of considerations. For example, they may be backlogged on good ecologies, or the Locathah has been covered too recently, or one of the ecologies comeing up or recent are too similar in flavor.
An entire issue on astrology/astronomy and numerology has been referenced a few times before. It's likely they have that issue already filled and won't need any similar articles for a while (totally unprofessional opinion here :-) ).
-Amber S.
That disk article would have been cool. The note about "most ancient image of the cosmos" captured my imagination.
Good luck with future submissions!!
One thing you have to remember is they are not neccessarily rejecting you because of quality or because they don't think you won't write a good article. There are a lot of considerations. For example, they may be backlogged on good ecologies, or the Locathah has been covered too recently, or one of the ecologies comeing up or recent are too similar in flavor.
Understood. I'm mostly concerned that I may be not giving enough in the query, or that it's falling flat for a reason other than ones I don't have control over. For instance, my stating the incorrect Knowledge skill was an error I should not have made. Such a thing would likely give an indication to an editor that I don't know the rules - making my submission less attractive.
An entire issue on astrology/astronomy and numerology has been referenced a few times before. It's likely they have that issue already filled and won't need any similar articles for a while (totally unprofessional opinion here :-) ).
I saw the bit about the astrology/astronomy issue stated after I'd already written the query. Ah well, you can't win them all. I just need to drop by Paizo HQ and snoop around their office, trying to see what slots haven't been filled :)
BOUNCING BACK FROM THE CHILL:
Back when I wrote my first article I had the unimaginable joy of seeing it published in Dragon.
I learned something from that experience that might help you endure the chilliness of a form rejection letter.
Let me start by saying the second thing I sent in was quietly rejected and all I got for my troubles was a form letter saying little more than nope. That was no pancake breakfast but I was still buoyed from the earlier victory.
However when the manuscript from that first article that had been accepted was returned to me... I noticed that Roger Moore, the editor at the time, and an assistant editor named Robin (um... Jenkins? Can't recall) had quite the scribbly row upon my manuscript. Roger in red ink, I think. Robin in black.
I wish I could post the thing. Imagine seeing your first attempt at writing for market batted around by legends in the field.
Robin said my article would appeal to the nuts and bolts readership. I still do not have a decisive read on what that meant.
Roger said BAH in his own way. Robin championed my article further and Roger not only published it... he added a great idea or two to my article.
I think when they reject, you are less likely to see just how much action may have occurred editorially. Sure, some people are sending in articles that look like crayon drawings, and are thusly rejected out of hand, but your writing here in the forum is quite good which leads me to think perhaps your articles may have had their supporters backstage.
I sent an article to Dragon a few years ago that the editor wanted revised. I was in an accident and dropped the revision (three lines away from completion) but the editor wrote extensively about what to change. I asked if a bribe might be in order and he told me if it was finally accepted he wouldn't say no to a locally brewed beer. A collector I see. ;)
My point is, once I was "on board" with the idea, the criticisms became clear and helpful.
The advantage I may have gained there was that I showed low class by writing directly to the editor and forged a relationship directly (professional naivete). They frown on that sort of thing, don't they? If I had written through the proper channels there would have been a much better chance of getting that nope letter. This is not a recommendation for stalking Mona or Jacobs. THAT is taboo.
Keep writing and hope for glints of editorial criticism. I am so flexible in my authorship that when an editor says turn it upside down I do so, without thought to integrity or logic.
I want that $38 check! Oh yeah! Down payment on the yacht, bay-bee!!!
Let me go find out Robin's last name. My career starting hero. Shame on me for forgetting.
I thought your queries were clear and concise (though admittedly I have exactly zero expertise in this area). Your ecology of the Locathah article grabbed my attention and created a hunger for your ideas except one little thing ...you didn't even mention any combat tactics, feats/skills/spells for/against the creatures, etc. Your approach, while still appealing to me personally, might have been regarded as "too much fluff, not enough crunch". Ecology articles are nice to learn depth and details but are also expected to give tips and tactics for actually engaging said creature in battle.
Like I said, I have no pride. Flame away! Please include some constructive criticism that I can dig out of the coals, though.
Rejected - The First:
SPELLCRAFT - BANSKO DISC: The 3,600-year-old bronze Bansko Disc is considered the oldest-known image of the cosmos. In competent hands, it is a great aid for those interested in astronomy, astrology, and the study of heavenly bodies. It is also a repository of various spells ancient scholars used to divine the future, and understand the natural world around them. This Spellcraft article will include new divination and transmutation spells, with a particular focus on Astrology and the secrets of the natural world. This article will be approximately 2,000 words in length.
EP Healy -
I'm not quite sure how anyone manages to get a Spellcraft article accepted... that said, 3600 years into the past seems like a long time, but the accepted timelines for the published settings would seem to suggest that 3600 years really ISN'T that far back.
Also, I'd suggest not only giving details on the disc, but an idea, very general, of one or two of the spells you're going to include.
Rejected - The Second:ECOLOGY OF THE LOCATHAH: In order to bring these creatures of the deep to life, I'd focus on their semi-nomadic tribal culture. I will illustrate their belief that every creature has a spirit that must be honored, and how that belief system impacts every level of their culture. The goddess Eadro, who created both the locathah and the merfolk, will be given some detail in a sidebar, as will a sample Eadroan cleric. Given that locathah are often mistaken for sahuagin, distinctions will be drawn between the two, with useful information for DMs to reveal with Knowledge (nature) checks. This article will be approximately 3,000 words in length.
I first took a look at the tool no ecology writer should be without... Wes' list of previously published ecologies. Locathah do not appear to be on it, so the rejection probably had to do with a number of factors. I know from my own ecology query rejections that Wes has ecologies pretty booked for about the next year... and is reluctant to book out much further than that. Don't doubt that bad timing can affect your chances.
SO, my thoughts? Wes seems not to like any ecology idea he thinks might be boring, no matter how well written. I love locathah, and underwater creatures in general, but I haven't submitted them as an ecology because I don't have a dynamic presentation for them. Convince Wes that the monster is exciting, or that your presentation of it will be, and you stand a better chance. That said... all of the editors seem willing to be convinced - if you really believe you have a dynamic way to present a creature and make it interesting, make sure your query shows it.
And don't get discouraged. It could be as simple as he's printing the ecology of the ixitxachitl (unlikely, as they've done, but for arguments sake) and doesn't have a slot for an underwater menace at the moment.
Also, continue writing. If they see your writing often enough, even if all they see is queries, it helps convince them that your serious, willing to work with them, and believe in your own work. It also helps cushion you against the rejections, so be sure to submit to different articles, preferably articles handled by separate editors, and if at all possible, in both magazines.
I hope this helps.
- Ashavan
Anyone know where that list of ecologies is at? Wasn't it on a thread?
Anyone know where that list of ecologies is at? Wasn't it on a thread?
A search of the message boards for Wes' name along with "ecology" should give you a short enough list to find it. He doesn't post very often.
- Ashavan
One other quick thing to add. The editors do not like the verb form of 'will'. As in, this will be... this will cover... etc. Rewriting one more time to eliminate those verbs might give you a whole new insight into the point you are trying to make with the sentences and make it more 'visual' or 'cool' or whatever. Other than that, both article proposals sounded good to me...though some details of levels or powers would be more thurough.
Just a couple of things to think about for next round...
Ok, here's another query. This time, however, it is an example of one that was accepted. Unfortunately, four hours after MM gave me the GO, he wrote back informing me that the idea was already in the works as a full article. You might recognize it from last month's issue :)
I post it here for those who want to know what an acceptable query looks like. Here goes...
Class Act - Initiate Feats: Champions of Valor introduced initiate feats for ten Forgotten Realms deities. This Class Act will introduce initiate feats for characters who worship the gods of the core Dungeons & Dragons pantheon. For instance, a 4th-level cleric or paladin of Olidammara who takes the Initiate of Olidammara feat would be able to add a +5 luck bonus on any attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check before the DM declares whether the roll results in success or failure. In addition, he would add two spells (one 1st- and one 2nd-level) to his cleric or paladin spell list.
That was my article. :) And Initiate feats were actually introduced in Player's Guide to Faerun. ;)
RE Your Article: No! It was mine, and you stole it from me!
RE PGtF: True. I was just using CoV as an example. It was simpler than listing multiple sources.
Z, do you still have the query you sent in for the Initiate Feats article? Perhaps it would be instructive to post it here as well. Two authors, two queries, both got green lights, same idea... you just happened to steal mine!
... runs away.
Oh, I guarantee you stole mine - I sent in the finished article over a year ago; so the query was written before that. :P :P :P
Let's see what I can find in my e-mail...
Yay, found it! It was sent January 24th, 2005. Here's the original e-mail that includes this query. The other ideas in the query were shot down. :(
Good morning, Jason. I hope this query finds you well. Here in the northeast, we're dealing with about a foot of snow - makes for fun times.
I have a few ideas for feature articles I'd like to run past you, to see if you'd be interested.
Idea 1:
"Tools of the Thief" The article wouldn't focus on the rogue class, but rather the thief archetype. It would discuss his tools - from mundane equipment in the player's handbook, to low level spells such as Spider Climb to magic equipment in the DMG. This idea evolved from a class acts proposal I had made to Mike McArtor. I had suggested it might be a fun flavor article to describe the contents of the "thieves kit." Everybody knows about the lock picks, but what else makes up that item? Things like brushes, pliers, tweezers, a small hack saw, etc might all be found in that bag of tricks. Mike agreed it sounded like a nice flavor piece, but thought it might do better as part of a feature. So I expanded the idea to cover all the tools of a thief, not just his kit.
Idea 2:
One of the things I enjoy about The Forgotten Realms is the involvement of the gods in the world. I don't necessarily mean the way the gods walk around in avatar form; rather, I like that the gods have "chosen" - those people who exemplify their believes. the Player's Guide to Faerun introduced another fun concept (in my opinion) with "Initiate" feats. I think it would be a fun idea to introduce both of these concepts for the "core" deities. The article would talk abuot the faithful, and how the gods reward them. It would present two (possibly three) "chosen of" templates, and a handful of "initiate of" feats. There'd be a few new spells for the initiate feats in order to make them unique, so for space I'd try to keep the list of initiate feats short.
Idea 2 could, certainly, be broken into two articles. One could be talking about religion in the "core" setting, and how the gods reward the truly faithful, including "chosen of" templates. The second piece could be either another feature or a Spellcraft article introducing initiate feats for the core pantheon. I would be open to approaching the idea either way - as one big article, or as two articles.
I look forward to hearing from you soon!
John
When Jason accepted the idea, who axed the "Chosen Of" idea immediately. At first, I was given a word count of 2500 and told to have interesting pre-reqs that would require roleplay along with mechanics.
Jason wanted the finished article in a month, which generally isn't a problem. As I was working, though, it became real clear that 2500 words wasn't going to allow for a lot of coverage. So Jason and I chatted a bit via e-mail - including me sending him a sample of what I had (it happened to be Olidammara). The decision was then made to remove the hard word count, and also to remove the RP requirements, as they were sucking up a ton of words. Jason gave me eight deities he wanted to cover in the article.
And then the article sat. And sat. And sat. :P I pestered Jason via e-mail on the status of the article about every month and a half or so. Then, at Gen Con, I pestered him in person. :D At Gen Con, he confirmed he'd received it, and looked it over once; but told me it was on a back burner for him for a little while. I didn't hear about it again until Troy Taylor posted on the boards congratulating me for my feature. :D At some point, I guess, the staff decided to expand the article from the original eight I wrote to the fourteen it now contains.
Ironically, this is the last feature query of mine that Jason has accepted. :( I haven't had much luck hitting upon ideas he likes since this one. Of course, I have several ideas out there still, so there's always a chance he'll say yes again. :)
Anything you write has to be sufficiently cool, interesting or otherwise attractive that it straightforwardly grabs the attention of a reader. Your pitch, in turn, must be as well-written as your article will - if you can't impress the editors with your synopsis, what will make them think that your article will impress them?
SPELLCRAFT - BANSKO DISC: The 3,600-year-old bronze Bansko Disc is considered the oldest-known image of the cosmos. In competent hands, it is a great aid for those interested in astronomy, astrology, and the study of heavenly bodies. It is also a repository of various spells ancient scholars used to divine the future, and understand the natural world around them. This Spellcraft article will include new divination and transmutation spells, with a particular focus on Astrology and the secrets of the natural world. This article will be approximately 2,000 words in length.
Looking at this, it's kind of vague. Imagine you were at a PDF sale site and you saw this article on sale. Would you pay $3 for it? I wouldn't, not based on this synopsis - it's too vague, it doesn't guarantee me anything interesting. What it tells me is, "This is some kind of picture of the stars, which somehow has a few spells... uh, divination (astrology, like) and transmutation I think."
The article might be good, but you're not giving me much to go on. I already have divinations and transmutations, what's so special about yours? What secrets of nature are we talking about, and why would I as a player care?
Hope I'm not sounding too harsh here. Be thankful that selling yourself in this industry relies on the same writing skills that a good writer will have, meaning that if you're good at writing you're likely to be successful based on that.
JDrain, no worries on the original queries. I know they were lacking. It was my first go, but I still thought to post them so that others could see where I made mistakes.
I've gotten a "little" better since then. :)
Z, I don't think it's just features. Even Class Acts have a long publishing horizon right now. I think the publishing queue for most, if not all, articles in both magazines is around eight months... and will likely stay that way for a while.
I've had class acts take longer than 8 months from submission to print. ;) Though I guess 8 is about average.
I do think it'll be harder than ever to get a class act article printed now. Instead of running 11 articles a month, they're now running only three. So there's just about 1/3rd as many slots, and still just as many ideas and submissions (or so I assume). This is good for the readers, because it raises the overall quality of the articles, since now only the best of the best get in. It's not as good for the writers, who could sometimes get an article slipped in simply because Mike had nothing else to put in that slot that month. :D
Well, not to be mean, but when I read about the disk thing, I was like; hmm who cares. The thing that bugs me about this is that it is apparently a unique item of dubious value. I asked myself, how would this fit into my world; what place would it have; what value; who is likely to want it; who is likely to steal it, etc. To make this item more vibrant; it would need context and meaning. The game already has creation feats whereas characters can make things to aid them in tasks; some items are made by dieties and whatnot to further their various ends. Personally, I just don't see that many gamers would be excited about or desire this item; seems more like an npc thing.
The locanth/merpeople thing; however it is spelled, is of interest to me; but keep this in mind; you are probably not known in print and have few credentials; ie; just breaking in; so I wouldnt take being turned down to hard; a previous poster had a good point on submitting "It will have...." personally, I would have sent a detailed outline of the article (of course, I dont know the rules and such); or a polished rough draft. It is much easier to get excited about a submission you can read for content and reader desirablility. Also, keep in mind that Dragon nor Dungeon has really not produced many undersea type adventures, but left there development to individual gms; ask yourself; how many undersea adventures have you ever played in and compare that to the air breathing adventures. A group would have to be set up specifically to do undersea adventures to make much use of this ecology article. If it was printed; I would read it and just store it as background info as it is not relevant to my campaign and not likely to be in any forseable future.
As stated before; it is not my intention to be hurtful, but to give you my two bits and leave it up for you to weigh it as helpful or not; basically, I don't see either of these articles as appealing to a very large mass or readers, players, or gms. One basic skill I would recommend that you work on developing is audience analysis of the magazines readership. Put yourself in the editor's shoes; he or she is asking themselves everyday questions about how to produce a great magazine that feeds the hungers of a particular and somewhat unforgiving audience that is going to more or less use what is printed as gospel. Then ask yourself; do your articles fit that need and are they general enough to appeal to wide readership.
personally, I would have sent a detailed outline of the article (of course, I dont know the rules and such); or a polished rough draft.
They want a query when you have an idea for an article. What that query looks like is generally up to you as the writer; certainly, you want to include some of the cool elements your article will cover. A rough draft, though, isn't a good idea. An outline may not be a good idea, either. One of the things your query needs to do is excite the editor - and things don't get much more boring than an outline. ;0
As stated before; it is not my intention to be hurtful, but to give you my two bits and leave it up for you to weigh it as helpful or not; basically, I don't see either of these articles as appealing to a very large mass or readers, players, or gms. One basic skill I would recommend that you work on...
Since my initial queries, this is exactly what I did. I posted them here so that you, and others, could comment - and hopefully help other aspiring contributors see where others have fallen short.
One thing I have discovered is that when a Paizo employee states that they'd like to see something, you'd better pay attention. It's like a backstage pass at a concert - more access than a normal joe can get. The reverse is also true... which is why I stopped submitting Ecology of... queries.