Greetings adventurers! I'm having a bit of trouble lately with all of my failed plans so far. I was wondering, how does a Half-(blank) work? I mean to say, what is the other half? Human? What if an Orc raped an Elf? What would the offpring become? Obviously a Half-Elf, but does it still gain Half-Orc abilities as well??? Please help me!!!!
Greetings adventurers! I'm having a bit of trouble lately with all of my failed plans so far. I was wondering, how does a Half-(blank) work? I mean to say, what is the other half? Human? What if an Orc raped an Elf? What would the offpring become? Obviously a Half-Elf, but does it still gain Half-Orc abilities as well??? Please help me!!!!
I took the easy (lazy) way out -- since the only half-breeds ever listed were with humans, I figured/ruled that humans are the only race that can produce half-breeds. Isolated exceptions are the result of magic, which can result in whatever collection of inherited advantages & disadvantages that I feel like at the time.
Jack
Personally, I think this is one of the biggest holes in the mechanics of the game. The PHB "racial traits" are really a hodge-podge of physical and cultural traits.
I've created a system for half-races in my campaign, basically creating full-race, half-race, and cultural templates for every PHB race (and a few others).
The "racial traits" of every character in my campaign is a mix of either a full-race template and a cultural template (a Gnome raised by Dwarves, for example), or two half-race templates and a cultural template. This way, if you want to play a Gnome/Elf raised by Humans, you can do so.
The trick is balance. My first draft had the human's bonus feat as part of the standard human cultural template. More than half of my players decided they were raised by humans, which bummed me out.
I've created a system for half-races in my campaign, basically creating full-race, half-race, and cultural templates for every PHB race (and a few others).
I always wondered why you couldn't play a half-dwark half-elf. This IS a fantasy game, and to say only humans can have off-breeds (I am pretty sure D&D says this explicitly) doesn't seem right. In fact, to coin an early phrase, it seems LAZY.
I'd like to see what you have done with your templates.
In fact, to coin an early phrase, it seems LAZY.
I totally agree.
I'd like to see what you have done with your templates.
Because of this thread, I decided to submit the idea to Dragon this morning. If they reject it outright, I'll probably clean it up and post it.
From what I hear, it could be a while before I hear from them. : )
I recall and old rule saying something about Elves adn Orcs not breeding. I could be crazy.
But two things come to mind:
1. Elves and Dwarves are smaller physically than Orcs, meaning in many ways it seems unfeasible for parts to fit correctly; beyond that, humans are more likely to foster a half breed of a monstrous race than dwarves or elves, who may just kill the babe outright out og mercy.
2. Why? There are so many different races with unique cultures to play, why run a race that has no real need or place?
2. Why? There are so many different races with unique cultures to play, why run a race that has no real need or place?
There is no need.
However, for me, it's because I want a world that is rich with culture and intercultural conflict and possibilities.
The core rules deliberately simplify culture by assigning certain learned characteristics to entire races (such as a Dwarf's stonecunning, combat bonuses against orcs and goblinoids, languages, and favored class).
What if my Dwarf character was raised by Gnomes, or Humans, or Elves? That doesn't sound impossible. If so, would he really speak Dwarven instead of Elven or whatever? Would he have learned any of the other special skills mentioned above?
Anyway. It floats my boat.
Green Ronin's Bastards and Bloodlines has some tools/guidelines for making such cross-breeds. Those tools essentially amount to taking the average on ability modifiers and cherry picking racial abilities. Options are also giving for handling odd numbered ability bonuses. Its more work than using a prepared race, but its not overwhelmingly so.
To answer your original question, using my system:
Humanoid (Orc, Elf)
STR +2, DEX +1, CON -1, INT -1, WIS -1, CHA -1
Medium Size
Speed: 30
Darkvision 60'
Low-light vision
Listen, Search, Spot +1
Immunity to sleep
Save +2 vs. enchantment
If raised in the standard Elven culture:
Martial Weapon Proficiency with longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite), and shortbow (including composite).
An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for the door.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven
Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan
Favored Class: Wizard
If raised in the standard Orc culture:
Automatic Languages: Common, Orc
Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Undercommon
Favored Class: Barbarian
What if my Dwarf character was raised by Gnomes, or Humans, or Elves? That doesn't sound impossible. If so, would he really speak Dwarven instead of Elven or whatever? Would he have learned any of the other special skills mentioned above?
Anyway. It floats my boat.
Well, if you want to go making sense and stuff, I guess I could pitch in.
It might be simple enough to keep inherited physical traits(stat adjustments, dwarfs stotuness based abilites) and disallow others, adding the relevant races cultural abilities.
Perhaps a "Half-orc" template would be the best way to go.
It might be simple enough to keep inherited physical traits(stat adjustments, dwarfs stotuness based abilites) and disallow others, adding the relevant races cultural abilities.
Perhaps a "Half-orc" template would be the best way to go.
Agreed.
I've created a system for half-races in my campaign, basically creating full-race, half-race, and cultural templates for every PHB race (and a few others).
The "racial traits" of every character in my campaign is a mix of either a full-race template and a cultural template (a Gnome raised by Dwarves, for example), or two half-race templates and a cultural template. This way, if you want to play a Gnome/Elf raised by Humans, you can do so.
I might have taken the easiest (or maybe the laziest) way out - I've eliminated the whole half-"breed" thing. No half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons, half-tarresques...
I don't mind templates that add something to the base creature (like the fiendish template), but having half-this and/or half-that just mixes things up (pun intended). I mean what happens when you get a halfling and elf together? A half-elfling? Kender?
I do this just to stop the madness. Just my opinion.
|
Perhaps a "Half-orc" template would be the best way to go.
I feel that the last thing that we need is more templates.
I would just give the stats for a half-orc and be done. The half-elf really has very little different from humans aside from a few bonuses to some skills.
"Full" orc -- +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Chr
"Half" orc -- +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Chr
"Full" elf -- +2 Dex, -2 Con
"Half" elf -- no adjustments to stats
To go from "full" to "half" takes a bit of work and comparison and I don't know if it is really worth it. Take something that exists and modify it to fit your concept.
One thing to be careful about is to give and take. If you give the character race something more than is in the base description, then, you should take something away. For example: if you use the half-orc for your half-orc/elf and want to give them bonuses to search, spot, and listen, I would take away the darkvision and replace it with low-light vision.
Giving characters things that would make sense from living in a specific community works fine, but I would never give any other race bonus feats unless it was a specific feat that the I (the DM) chose specific for that race. The only race that has a bonus feat that can be chosen from anything is Human and that is because they go so little else. Giving a character darkvision, bonuses to skills and a bonus feat can offset the balance.
Also take a look at the Player's Guide to Faerun and/or Races of Faerun. It gives suggestions for other offshoots of races (Gold Elves, Mountain Dwarves, etc.) to help you come up with a balance.
Good luck.
I might have taken the easiest (or maybe the laziest) way out - I've eliminated the whole half-"breed" thing. No half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons, half-tarresques...
I don't mind templates that add something to the base creature (like the fiendish template), but having half-this and/or half-that just mixes things up (pun intended). I mean what happens when you get a halfling and elf together? A half-elfling? Kender?
I do this just to stop the madness. Just my opinion.
Yep, I agree....traditional half-breeds only in my campaign. Half-elves, half-orcs and half-ogres. I allowed a half-dragon PC in the SCAP, but no more.
After my players fought Kazmojen (half dwarf/half troll) in the first SC adventure, they asked "What the f#+@ was that?"
I told them and they just rolled their eyes, so I guess we're in agreement on that one.
I mean what happens when you get a halfling and elf together? A half-elfling? Kender?
Humanoid (Elf, Halfling)
DEX +2, STR -1, CON -1Medium (Move 30) or Small (Move 20)
Immunity to sleep, save +2 vs. enchantment
Low-light vision
Listen, Search, Spot +1
Climb, Jump, Move Silently +1
Listen +1
Raised by Elves?
Martial Weapon Proficiency with longsword, rapier, longbow, shortbow.
An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for the door.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven
Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan
Favored Class: Wizard
Raised by Halflings?
save +2 vs. fear
attack +1 with thrown weapons and slings
Automatic Languages: Common and Halfling
Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, and Orc
Favored Class: Rogue
All said, in our new campaign we have a half-minotaur-half-dwarf and so far he has been great fun (ok, he is really deadly in battle...).
Character stats were based on some Dragon article in the past, where half-minotaur (and other half-monster) template was given to be applied to a standard race, replacing some things and adding to some. When looking at it now, the character is a bit too powerful to really justify only +1 level adjustment but, as said, he has been fun so it is forgiven :)
One of the PCs in my Age of Worms campaign is a half-orc/half-elf ranger. He functions exactly like a half-orc, but I gave him a +2 to Charisma just because. He can also worship FR elven deities.
One of the PCs in my Age of Worms campaign is a half-orc/half-elf ranger. He functions exactly like a half-orc, but I gave him a +2 to Charisma just because. He can also worship FR elven deities.
Ooh. None of my business, but this is worth an ECL +1 (unbalanced ability bonuses). It sounds more like you ended up giving the player some free points for use on his stats -- the Cha bonus certainly isn't supported (and is actually contradicted) by any of the parents' racial stats.
Just a couple of cents :)
Jack
Agreed. There should be a balance for the extra +2. Also, anyone can worship any deity as it is; there is no real restrictions.
I understand. I'll probably give everyone a +2 to an ability score of my choice just to show that they're "that" good at this or that. I would think twice about the +2 to Cha if he were a sorcerer or bard. It's not a big deal.
In my campain, I have a half-illithid drow vampire. It makes for some interesting role-playing. An example:
DM: As you are traveling down the ancient tunnel, you see a humanoid with four tentacles sprouting from where its mouth should be.
Fighter: Hey look, a mind flayer.
Wizard: Are you sure? It could be Ishtel.
Fighter: Who?
Cleric: Remember? That vampire thing with tentacles.
Fighter: Oh yeah. Good thing you turned it. Anyway, that guy wouldn't be wandering around a tunnel.
Thief: What if it's Cthulhu?! We're all gonna die!!!!
Ishtel: (mind blasts, fireballs, eats fighter's brain)
I have tried using a single template to cover all of the humanoid races, but found that it got bogged down in powergaming and some rather insane combinations, so I went with the normal races with a few modifications.
The trouble with changing too many things about your races is game balance. A game can quickly deteriorate if the DM does not keep a tight leash on the character's choices. While a half-illithid drow vampire sounds great is it a balanced character? If it follows the ECL rules then it probably is, but again its a case by case basis.
By the way, a lot of people give certain demi-humans +1, -1 to their ability scores. This is a rather non-sensical rule since the chance that a PC will actually benefit from it is only 50% (only if he rolls an odd number). Ability score modifiers should always have a clear cut benefit whatever dice you roll. (its how the base races are structured, and how the monsters in the Monster Manual are structured as well). Of course, if you are using the point buy system for ability scores you can ignore this point, but be wary of powergaming.
From what I've seen people seldom use the rules found in the DMG for creating new races. I'm not saying that people have to be a slave to the rules, but you shouldn't complete ignore them if you want to be balanced in your decision making.
By the way, a lot of people give certain demi-humans +1, -1 to their ability scores. This is a rather non-sensical rule since the chance that a PC will actually benefit from it is only 50% (only if he rolls an odd number). Ability score modifiers should always have a clear cut benefit whatever dice you roll. (its how the base races are structured, and how the monsters in the Monster Manual are structured as well). Of course, if you are using the point buy system for ability scores you can ignore this point, but be wary of powergaming.
The +1/-1 thing is definitely an issue, and I know most of the folks at WotC agree with you. However, it still makes a difference whether a character has a 12 or a 13, for example. If not at 1st level, then at 4th and 8th, etc.
bumping original thread out of the archives.
Because of this thread, I decided to submit the idea to Dragon this morning. If they reject it outright, I'll probably clean it up and post it.
From what I hear, it could be a while before I hear from them. : )
Cross your fingers and hope for a new book....lol. Wait! You can submit stuff to Dragon?!? NO ONE TOLD ME THIS!!! WHY?!?
There's a half-orc/half-elf in Kenzer's Friends and Foes: Elves and Bugbears of Telene