Mad God´s Key - the Barge End Chase:impossible to catch Irontusk without cheating?


Dungeon Magazine General Discussion


First of all let me say that I´m new to 3.5 and trying to catch up on the rules, coming from 3.0.

I´ve finally found some players and going to run this adventure for them,wich I hope will be enjoyable, bot for me and the players.

This will be long, so grab Dungeon #114 and get started!
(I´ve posted on this board earlier about this adventure,but it didn´t work out well with my player, so we never got that far into the adventure).

First of all: is Irontusk stats correct? He´s a 2 lvl Bbn with a Jump check at 12. I don´t know how it´s possible, perhpas I´ve missed something?
(At lvl 1 he should have 4 skill points invested in the Jump skill, adding one more at second, and that would give him 5 ranks in Jump. With his Str.at 17 he have a +3 modifier wich would give him a total of 8. Correct?

Since the adventure states that "Irontusk´s Jump check is high enough that he automatically makes jumps of 5 ft or less."
And that leads me to another question: what are the DC for Jump checks in this area? The DC for Climb checks, Swim checks etc are listed, but not the DC for Jump checks. Or have I missed something?

If we assume that we start the encounter at D2 ( wich I find horrible rail-roady btw - why couldn´t the players just as likely search for Irontusk from the other two roads that leads to Barge End? )the chance that Irontusk will be surprised must be very small beacuse of Solnia (D3) watching out for him.Irontusk also have Improved Initiative so he will most likely go first.

If we assume that Irontusk goes first and with a speed of 40 ft/round in light armor and he doesn´t need to make any Jump checks and taking a double move I just can´t see how the party ever could catch up with him( The game I was referring to earlier, this exact thing happened: he just easily slipped away with his boat and was gone).The only thing that can stop him as I see is that he gets incredible unlucky at D5 or D7.
The first PC that will make a Jump check from D2 will have a hard time: to make a Jump check you need a running start wich requires that you move at least 20 ft in a straight line before
attemptng the jump. Otherwise the DC is doubled.
Where will the PC:s find that 20 ft in a straight line?
If they try to jump from the slippery boat D3 there are still a 10 ft gap that seems impossible to make. The other and only option is to jump from a narrow edge from D4 to D7 wich is 5 ft,
or a 10 ft jump from behind the barrels at D4 to D5.
I don´t know the what the DC:s for those Jumps should be. Any suggestions?
At least 2 of the PC will be wearing meduim or heavy armor that will reduce their speed and give them a - 4 armor check penality.
I just don´t see how they can start a chase and succeed with these conditions!
Well, I´ve probably done some miscalculation or did something else wrong, but I need some help to run this encounter smoothly.
Please tell me there´s a way to catch Irontusk without cheating.
And what did you do when he got away? I´m sure that that must have happened alot of times.
I need some help here.

Asmo

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Asmo wrote:

First of all: is Irontusk stats correct? He´s a 2 lvl Bbn with a Jump check at 12. I don´t know how it´s possible, perhpas I´ve missed something?

(At lvl 1 he should have 4 skill points invested in the Jump skill, adding one more at second, and that would give him 5 ranks in Jump. With his Str.at 17 he have a +3 modifier wich would give him a total of 8. Correct?

Since Irontusk has a speed of 40 ft., he gets a +4 bonus on Jump checks (see Player's Handbook, page 77).

Asmo wrote:

Since the adventure states that "Irontusk´s Jump check is high enough that he automatically makes jumps of 5 ft or less."

And that leads me to another question: what are the DC for Jump checks in this area? The DC for Climb checks, Swim checks etc are listed, but not the DC for Jump checks. Or have I missed something?

The DC for Jump checks are also in the Player's Handbook on page 77. For long jumps, if the character has a 20 foot running start, the DC for a jump equals the distannce of the jump. Thus, to make a 10-foot-jump, you need to make a DC 10 Jump check. If you don't have a running start, the DC is doubled.

Asmo wrote:
If we assume that we start the encounter at D2 ( wich I find horrible rail-roady btw - why couldn´t the players just as likely search for Irontusk from the other two roads that leads to Barge End?

If the PCs follow the directions to Irontusk's location, tehy'll end up at area D2; it's not railroading. The PCs are perfectly free to approach the area from a different road, or even to spread out and approach from multiple angles. This is a pretty solid tactic for catching Irontusk, but you should let the PCs figure it out on their own. If they don't say anything about trying to spread out or take other routes, they end up at area D2.

Asmo wrote:
If we assume that Irontusk goes first and with a speed of 40 ft/round in light armor and he doesn´t need to make any Jump checks and taking a double move I just can´t see how the party ever could catch up with him.

It'll be tough for a party to catch Irontusk, no doubt. Especailly if the majority of the party is slow. Which is why the PCs need to play to their strengths in this combat. If they're not fast enough to catch him by following, they should try to get ahead of him by taking shortcuts (this requires more dangerous jumps or a fast swim speed, of course). Spells that can help a lot in this encounter include jump, expeditious retreat, and longstrider.

Of course, the PCs can also try to use ranged attacks or spells to take him down. You don't need to run and jump to catch Irontooth if you hit him with enough arrows, magic missiles, or a handy grease spell.

If he does get away though, the adventure's not over. The PCs can use DC 20 Gather Information checks to track down where Irontusk might go to hide out. In this case, what they encounter at Irontusk's new hideout is up to you.

Contributor

Funnily enough I ran this chase a few weeks ago as part of a new Styes campaign,

It was very tricky for the PCs to catch him but that made for an exciting chase, in the end a single character caught him by leaping from the end of the last pier onto his boat. I thought the whole section ran really well and the players had a lot of fun (especially the ones who ended up in the water as I had a few Dire Rats in the fray).

Rich


Agreed, that chase scene was not-so-great part of otherwise entertaining adventure (I've played it once and run it once).
So far the best/only method has been to drop Irontusk with ranged weapons or spells but actual swashbuckling jumping-from-boat-to-another has definitely been missing.
Game which I ran he was called to come closer with Command spell which called him to a boat full of nets and of course he didn't make a save and got entangled...he became much more co-operative then :)


Thank you good people for taking time to answer my questions and giving some great advice!

James Jacobs wrote:
The DC for Jump checks are also in the Player's Handbook on page 77.

Doh! I just wished that this was mentioned in the description somewhere,but I guess this is a thing a dm should know.

Returning to Irontusk and his stats I just want to know why the damage from his club is 1d6+4 and not 1d6+3? with a STR of 17 and a +3 modifier it should be 1d6+3. But since that is wrong I´m putting on my silly hat and ask why?

Richard Pett wrote:
It was very tricky for the PCs to catch him but that made for an exciting chase, in the end a single character caught him by leaping from the end of the last pier onto his boat.
magdalena thiriet wrote:

So far the best/only method has been to drop Irontusk with ranged weapons or spells but actual swashbuckling jumping-from-boat-to-another has definitely been missing.

Game which I ran he was called to come closer with Command spell which called him to a boat full of nets and of course he didn't make a save and got entangled...he became much more co-operative then :)

So what happened after that? Did the party fight him to death or did the party negotiate with him? Did you have to bribe him? If he survived, what did you do to him afterwards? Hand him over to the guards?

Did Solnia see any action? Did some of the PC:s catch her while trying to flee into the city?

I´m sure that there´s more dm´s out there who has run this adventure, It would be cool if you would like to share your stories!
( I´ll probably post more when the party are about to meet the Green Dagger gang, I´ve some questions about that section to)

Asmo

Contributor

Asmo wrote:

Returning to Irontusk and his stats I just want to know why the damage from his club is 1d6+4 and not 1d6+3? with a STR of 17 and a +3 modifier it should be 1d6+3. But since that is wrong I´m putting on my silly hat and ask why?

He uses the club two-handed, so he gets 1.5 his strength. In D&D math 1.5 x 3 = 4.


Zherog wrote:
He uses the club two-handed, so he gets 1.5 his strength. In D&D math 1.5 x 3 = 4.

Lol,thanks! I would never figure that one out.

Asmo


Asmo wrote:

So what happened after that? Did the party fight him to death or did the party negotiate with him? Did you have to bribe him? If he survived, what did you do to him afterwards? Hand him over to the guards?

After Irontusk was caught in the nets it was pretty obvious to him that he couldn't escape whole...so the group could negotiate the matter with him (I think some money also sweetened the deal). After that the group left him in peace (they weren't that big fans of guards either and the thing Irontusk had done was pretty much below notice in their moral scale...)

BTW, I think there was a minor error in irontusk character which was pointed out in later issue letter column...he has one feat too much (cannot remember which one was suggested to be dropped).


I've run it twice now, once with the Fiance's group-of-four, and once with the two new players (and Fiance filling in the gap) who are heading to join up with my Shackled City adventure path folks.

The first time, it didn't go so incredibly well for the Human Monk, Half-Elf Sorcerer, Elf Cleric and Human Rogue - though they did catch him a few steps from his boat, the monk spent most of the time swimming, the Sorcerer gave up and pelted him with magic missiles - rolling so many 1s I could have cried for him, and it was the Rogue that managed to catch him. The Elf didn't even try (medium armor and shield = no swim). Irontusk flew along his path, skipped through all the bad spots, and left the Monk and Rogue to flail in the aftermath (the spider got them, the chickens got them, they fell through a boat's bottom, you name it, it went wrong).

The second time, it went very well. The Half-Elf Sorceress in the new group rolled quite a few 4s for her version of the Magic Missile Solution, the Human Fighter stood and watched (again, medium armor and shield), but the Rogue had maxed out his Jump and Tumble and managed to stay out of the water and as such, landed on an already badly hurt Irontusk, who passed out when his rage ended.

So, as in many parts of D&D, it seems it was more about dice-rolls than anything else.


An update:

the party: female elven wizard and her lover,the party rogue.
Fighter and the 36 year old cleric of Pelor.

This is the sad story: they enter Barge End and start to search for Irontusk,the wizard asks if she spots an halforc. Well, she actually does,and she casts Charm Person and gains alot of useful information from him.She says "take us to him" and he leads them to D2 where he points out Irontusk.
Solnia is alert and gives Irontusk a warning, and the chase is on - not at all it would seem.
The players starts to bicker how hard the jumpcheck seems to be, and Irontusk moves further way.
The rogue and the fighter opts to run back from where they come from.
The wizard shoots with her bow asn actually does some damage, and the cleric casts Doom, all while Irontusk rows away..

After some thought they talks to old Bill - wich owns the boat at D5 and asks him to row after Irontusk.
Well, after some silver he accepts and they´re off.
After awhile they actually manages to find Irontusks boat on the other side of Selintan River, they jump off and starts to search for tracks after Irontusk.
Old Bill takes Irontusks boat with him and starts to row back to Barge End - bad move. The wizard notices this and shoots old Bill dead, with an arrow through his throat.
At this point the cleric realises that this has gone to far, and refuses to help the wizard dump Bill and the boat. She fills the boat with stones and sinks it,with Bills body in it.
They row down the river and make their way back to the Blue Dragon Inn where the cleric - after cleaning up a little bit - turn himself in and tells the guards who the killer is.

The guard arrests the wizard shortly after that, and she´s put to death. I don´t know what to do with the cleric, but I know that if I let him atone for his crime, there will be one pissed rogue waitng for him outside prison...
All this after the second session. I´m astonished!
I don´t know how I can save this,any suggestions?

Asmo


Was it a murderous elf wizard, or was it Memorex the doppelganger wizard? Only time, the DM, and the elf's player know for sure.

Another option is to just let things play out as they will. Sometimes interesting things can develop... and sometimes they don't, but at least your players will get it out of their system and perhaps gain some understanding on how you will adjudicate such matters in the future.

;)
GGG

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