OK, I know that the first adventure "The Whispering Cairn" is for first level characters. And they should be pretty close to 3rd level when they finish it.
"The Three Faces of Evil" picks up next, and PCs should be about 5th level by the time they are done.
Now, I don't have any idea on 3-5, but episode 6 is for 11th level characters, so I'm guessing that episode 3 takes characterd from 5-7, episode 4 from 7-9, and episode 5 from 9-11.
What is the complete expected progression through the campaign?
Looking through the first two adventures, I've compiled a list of the magical items that the party is likley to end up with. Now, I'll hold off on posting that at this time, but I was wondering what people think of the level of magical items, and what type of magical items people would like to see more or less of in future adventures in the series?
I know that personnaly I'm a fan of misc. magic items like Robes of Patches and other unique items that provide roleplaying capabilities, or spark the player into creative use of the item.
Also, what level magical armor/weapon/ability enhancment item do you see as appropriate for a character of say 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th and 20th level?
Thoughts?
ASEO out
You know, sometimes just to see how it roleplays out..I toss in a high value item into a low level campaign. Instead of tossing an orges lair and finding a +1 longsword and a couple of potions I make it a small pile of copper and silver coins and a old bastard sword covered in dust and grime.
Imagine the PC's surprise when the weapon freak in the party actually takes it home to see what he can get for it and in the process of cleaning and oiling uncovers runes that suggest it was made 1000 years ago during the dwarven/giant wars..
Casting identifcation on it reveals it is actually a +3 bastard sword gaint bane. Now the character might have to spend a feat to learn how to use it efefctively and then there is the pesky dwarves who want to buy it back and then there are the giants who instinctively recoginize it and try to slay its wielder regardless of their alignment.
Ultimately, if handled right powerful items in low powered parties can be excellant plot devices.
You know, sometimes just to see how it roleplays out..I toss in a high value item into a low level campaign. Instead of tossing an orges lair and finding a +1 longsword and a couple of potions I make it a small pile of copper and silver coins and a old bastard sword covered in dust and grime.
Imagine the PC's surprise when the weapon freak in the party actually takes it home to see what he can get for it and in the process of cleaning and oiling uncovers runes that suggest it was made 1000 years ago during the dwarven/giant wars..
Casting identifcation on it reveals it is actually a +3 bastard sword gaint bane. Now the character might have to spend a feat to learn how to use it efefctively and then there is the pesky dwarves who want to buy it back and then there are the giants who instinctively recoginize it and try to slay its wielder regardless of their alignment.
Ultimately, if handled right powerful items in low powered parties can be excellant plot devices.
I agree completely. I love this type of plot device. I plan on using the weapons of leagcy book to do just that. The nice thing is, the weapons will be balanced at the time they are found/received and the plot will slowly develop from there.
Rooster
Fenrat,
I like your idea as well. I plan on stealing a lot of these ideas once I get my gaming group together for AoW.
Rooster
I love this type of plot device. I plan on using the weapons of leagcy book to do just that. The nice thing is, the weapons will be balanced at the time they are found/received and the plot will slowly develop from there.
Rooster
Has anyone else toyed with the idea of making ALL magic items into "Legacy" items? I have a hard time imagining the +1 longsword factory that must exist somewhere, manned by dozens of 3rd level wizards (who must have XPs pumped in via IV), in order to create the number of magic items that exist in the typical D&D world. Scrolls, wands, and potions seem okay to me the way they are, but it seems like there should be a reason for a wizard or cleric to craft other items, considering the time, money, and XP involved.
Thus, I was thinking about having a "Legacy-only campaign," in which all of the magic items to be found would utlimately be unique, powerful creations that advance with the power of the PC. Obviously, there would be much fewer magic items to be found, but it would be all about quality, not quantity. The Earthdawn system (which few of you probably remember) had a similar system, and it was one of my favorite aspects of that game.
Tying this into AoW would require the DM to change many of the more "generic" items (eg, Grallak Kur's banded mail +1) to masterwork equivalents (something that might give the PCs a better chance, considering the comments about AoW's massive overpower) and then turning the few remaining items (eg, Theldrick's full plate +1) into Legacy Items. This would require a bit of work, but not as difficult as it may seem at first.
Thoughts?
O
Looking through the first two adventures, I've compiled a list of the magical items that the party is likley to end up with. Now, I'll hold off on posting that at this time, but I was wondering what people think of the level of magical items, and what type of magical items people would like to see more or less of in future adventures in the series?I know that personnaly I'm a fan of misc. magic items like Robes of Patches and other unique items that provide roleplaying capabilities, or spark the player into creative use of the item.
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Holy cripes, I just added it all up myself and realized there are WAY more magic goodies in these adventures than you would expect players of low levels to find.
I discounted items in NPC combat gear sections, reasoning that these are consumables that may be used up in combat. Whatever is not used up I figured would be offset by what the PCs miss elsewhere.
Whispering Cairn has 16,480 gp in magic item value alone. This does not include the monetary treasure to be found. 12,000 gp over the first two levels is the average treasure level in total recommended in the DMG. So the magic item value alone exceeds this by 4,480 gp. So, this is more evidence supporting suggestions that Whispering Cairn is in fact an adventure for 2nd-3rd level PCs. Given the deadliness of the Cairn and of the following 3 Faces, I have no problem with the amount of treasure. I think it speaks to the fact that the adventure is suitable for higher level or larger parties than it claims to be.
As for the type of magic items, I love them. They are background-related (e.g., the "tools" in the architect's lair) or needed for later encounters (the +1 short sword/grick). There are cool items PCs probably would never buy but get a chance to use anyway (goggles of minute seeing). I'd like to see more of this in the future.
As for Three Faces of Evil, I calculated 33,703 gp worth of magic items. This is higher than the recommended 28,000 gp value for 3rd and 4th level put together and again it excludes the non-magical treasure. The theme of items is not as well-thought out as that in Whispering Cairn but this is where the PCs first get a taste of potent permanent items (The Faceless One's rod) and I like introducing these items around 4th level. There was a lot of magical armour in 3 Faces, and an emphasis on combat-effective items (probably due to the large number of foes with character levels) so the items weren't as interesting or unique as those in Whispering Cairn. I prefer the style of items in Whispering Cairn because, with enough money, PCs can just buy the items in 3 Faces they want, whereas they will likely never bother to buy a ring of feather falling, for example, and so it makes for a more unique party. Still, I liked the eyes of the eagle (complements Whispering's goggles well) and Heward's handy haversack (allows PCs to carry more items, expanding their tactics options)
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Here is what I came up with for episodes 1 & 2 not counting scrolls and potions or masterwork items.
Armor
+1 Chainmail
+1 Chain Shirt
+1 Full Plate
+1 Studded Leather
+1 Bracers of Armor
+1 Heavy Shield of Blinding
+1 Mithral Shirt
+1 Banded Armor
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
Weapon
+1 Short Sword
+1 Great Axe
Ring
Ring of Feather Fall
+1 Ring of Protection
Wand
Wand of Unseen Servant (16)
Wand of Shatter (7)
Wand of Enlarge Person (42)
Wand of Magic Missile (38)
Miscellaneous
Goggles of Minute Seeing
1st level Pearl or Power (x2)
Eyes of the Eagle
Quall’s Feather Token (Whip) (Bird)
Lesser Metamagic Rod (Extend)
+2 Cloak of Charisma
Broach of Shielding (74)
Rope of Climbing
+1 Cloak of Resistance
Heward’s Handy Haversack
Part of the reason I'm asking is that I'm DMing a playtest of episode 6 Friday night, and I want to make sure the PC's, who haven't been through the previous adventures (mainly beacuse 3 of the 5 are not yet published) have the proper level of magical items so that the playtest gets the most accurate appraisal. My understanding it that the authors of each episode are not given a list of magical items to put in their adventure, so what they give out is up to them. I was wondering, coming out ot episode 5, what level of magical items should the PC's have. X+ weapons, X+ armor, minor/medium/major level rings, wands, rods and misc. magic items.
So far, the magic item stockpile seems fairly high.
ASEO out
Has anyone else toyed with the idea of making ALL magic items into "Legacy" items?
Yes, I have toyed with this idea, however that means a whole hell of a lot of work for a normal campaign. This would be very good for a 'low magic' campaign though...
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Here is what I came up with for episodes 1 & 2 not counting scrolls and potions or masterwork items.
Armor
+1 Chainmail
+1 Chain Shirt
+1 Full Plate
+1 Studded Leather
+1 Bracers of Armor
+1 Heavy Shield of Blinding
+1 Mithral Shirt
+1 Banded Armor
+1 Amulet of Natural ArmorWeapon
+1 Short Sword
+1 Great AxeRing
Ring of Feather Fall
+1 Ring of ProtectionWand
Wand of Unseen Servant (16)
Wand of Shatter (7)
Wand of Enlarge Person (42)
Wand of Magic Missile (38)Miscellaneous
Goggles of Minute Seeing
1st level Pearl or Power (x2)
Eyes of the Eagle
Quall’s Feather Token (Whip) (Bird)
Lesser Metamagic Rod (Extend)
+2 Cloak of Charisma
Broach of Shielding (74)
Rope of Climbing
+1 Cloak of Resistance
Heward’s Handy HaversackPart of the reason I'm asking is that I'm DMing a playtest of episode 6 Friday night, and I want to make sure the PC's, who haven't been through the previous adventures (mainly beacuse 3 of the 5 are not yet published) have the proper level of magical items so that the playtest gets the most accurate appraisal. My understanding it that the authors of each episode are not given a list of magical items to put in their adventure, so what they give out is up to them. I was wondering, coming out ot episode 5, what level of magical items should the PC's have. X+ weapons, X+ armor, minor/medium/major level rings, wands, rods and misc. magic items.
So far, the magic item stockpile seems fairly high.
ASEO out
ya missed the wand of enfeeblement and the brooch of shielding (35) that Merovinn Bask used.
I too would like to see fewer +1 longswords and more items that spark player creativity. the 'Weapons of Legacy' sounds like it will be a great resource to incorporate 'flavorful' items. Am i wrong in my calculations, or are there insofar zero cursed items in the AOW adventure path? Those bad boys are 'instant' roleplay experiences, and keeps the players a bit honest with their 'detect magic radars'. I mean cmon, 3 evil cults and no magical experiments gone astray? hmmm
I too would like to see fewer +1 longswords and more items that spark player creativity. the 'Weapons of Legacy' sounds like it will be a great resource to incorporate 'flavorful' items. Am i wrong in my calculations, or are there insofar zero cursed items in the AOW adventure path? Those bad boys are 'instant' roleplay experiences, and keeps the players a bit honest with their 'detect magic radars'. I mean cmon, 3 evil cults and no magical experiments gone astray? hmmm
Yeah, whatever has happened to cursed items? I remember the day when cursed items would bring all sorts of joy to the DM (and sometimes even the players), but I seriously cannot remember a cursed item in a DUNGEON mag in the last few years. I mean when was the last time that somebody saw a backbiting spear, gauntlets of fumbling, or periapt of foul rotting in an adventure? In fact, while I'm on the point, whatever happened to the girdle of masculinity/femininity? It has been removed from the DMG entirely.
As for making all magic items legacy items. I think the majority of magic items should not be special in any way or legacy items (at least in a FR, Greyhawk, or Eberron campaign), otherwise magic items would be far rarer than they are (since they are harder to create) and PCs would become far too powerful. The campaign might also degenerate into PCs trying to activate all the special powers of their legacy items at the expense of everything else.
ya missed the wand of enfeeblement and the brooch of shielding (35) that Merovinn Bask used.
Dooh, I don't have the mag with me currently, how many charges on that wand of enfeeblement?
ASEO out
ya missed the wand of enfeeblement and the brooch of shielding (35) that Merovinn Bask used.Dooh, I don't have the mag with me currently, how many charges on that wand of enfeeblement?
ASEO out
17, assuming he doesn't use any against the PC's when Kullen's gang atacks.
17, assuming he doesn't use any against the PC's when Kullen's gang atacks.
Thanks. I'm betting it gets used at least once so I'll go with 16 charges.
ASEO out