Those are/were E. Gary Gygax's famous characters, were they not? what happened to them, and why does Mordekainen have spells named after him??
Those are/were E. Gary Gygax's famous characters, were they not? what happened to them, and why does Mordekainen have spells named after him??
Spells with names usually possess the name of their creators.
Mordenkainen is well described in Epic Level handbook as a 27th level wizard. He is still very much in play for many playing through campaigns on Oerth.
And yes, Mordenkainen was indeed Gary Gygax's character.
Jeez, where ISN'T Drizzt? There was a time a few years ago when he was impossible to miss.
Mordenkainen is a magic-user played by Gary Gygax in his home Greyhawk campaign. In the published version of the setting, he's an NPC member of an enigmatic group called Circle of Eight that's based in Greyhawk City proper and also includes such notable personalities as the wizards Otto and Bigby. He's still an active character after all this time, played by Gary on occasion in his home games. He has spells named after him because many of the spells that have been in various editions of the Player's Handbook since the 80s were originally developed in play by Mordenkainen.
Drizzt is a drow ranger created by author Robert Salvatore for a long-running series of D&D novels and is also one of his creator's PCs. He's from Faerun, the world of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.
Wow, Yamo, you have all the answers!
Wow, Yamo, you have all the answers!
No, really, he doesn't.
In the published version of the setting, he's an NPC member of an enigmatic group called Circle of Eight that's based in Greyhawk City proper and also includes such notable personalities as the wizards Otto and Bigby.
Since when were they 'based' in Greyhawk City? The original eight were never a cohesive force. They merely co-operated towards a common goal. They were based in their own citadels, towers, etc. of the individuals, not as an actual group with an actual base of operations anywhere.
And in its current incarnation, if the group were to have a 'base', it'd be Mordenkainen's citadel in the Yatils.
The origins of the Circle, before it was ever eight (currently nine if you include Mordenkainen as it's 'overlord'), were actually Robilar, Mordenkainen, and IIRC, Otto and a couple of side-kicks like Riggby and Erac's Cousin... or something like that, I can't remember the exact list. But they were nothing more than an adventuring group.
The concept then got taken further by later authors. In fact, IIRC, Gygax didn't create the more modern take on the Circle of Eight. The concept of it's creation as a force to balance the Flanaess through manipulation was not Gygax's idea.
"The concept then got taken further by later authors. In fact, IIRC, Gygax didn't create the more modern take on the Circle of Eight. The concept of it's creation as a force to balance the Flanaess through manipulation was not Gygax's idea."
I never said it was, sir. I specified that the portion of my description that you were referring to was drawn from "the published version of the setting", which includes the work of writers other than Gygax, most prominently one Carl Sargeant. I personally am not a Sargeant fan (as evidenced to several posts to that effect on the WotC Greyhawk board, where I've gone so far as to say that I don't think that Sargeant ever really "got" what the setting was supposed to be), but to say that he hasn't had a say in defining the published version of it is a bit of a stretch.
Mostly, I simplified things a bit to avoid deluging Tiejaz with Greyhawk fandom minutea.
Mostly, I simplified things a bit to avoid deluging Tiejaz with Greyhawk fandom minutea.
"Deluging" isn't a word in common use.
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Mostly, I simplified things a bit to avoid deluging Tiejaz with Greyhawk fandom minutea."Deluging" isn't a word.
If you're going to pose as a know it all and resort to semantical & grammatical arguements, at least check your facts... (from Allwords.com & confirmed at dictionary.com)
deluge
noun deluges
1. A flood.
2. A downpour of rain.
3. A great quantity of anything coming or pouring in.
Thesaurus: torrent, avalanche, barrage, inundation, flood.
verb
deluged, deluging
1. formal
To flood; to cover in water.
Idiom: be deluged with something
To be overwhelmed by it.
As for Yamo's description of the circle being based in Greyhawk, this is consistent with several published Greyhawk products. The memebrs DO have homes elsewhere, but the Free City is their base of operations & focus of their activities, and networks.
If you're going to pose as a know it all and resort to semantical & grammatical arguements, at least check your facts... (from Allwords.com & confirmed at dictionary.com)
deluge
noun deluges1. A flood.
2. A downpour of rain.
3. A great quantity of anything coming or pouring in.
Thesaurus: torrent, avalanche, barrage, inundation, flood.verb
deluged, deluging
1. formal
To flood; to cover in water.Idiom: be deluged with something
To be overwhelmed by it.
Whatever are you rabbiting on about?
*Delglath grins evilly*
As for Yamo's description of the circle being based in Greyhawk, this is consistent with several published Greyhawk products. The memebrs DO have homes elsewhere, but the Free City is their base of operations & focus of their activities, and networks.
I beg to differ. I'd like to see references where it states such is the case. I can reference published texts that indicate and infer the opposite. It's also the opinion of luminaries of the GH fan world.
You're welcome to come to #greytalk (irc.psionics.net) or the Canonfire GH forums to try and convince me... and the rest of GH fandom...
"deluged, deluging
1. formal
To flood; to cover in water.
Idiom: be deluged with something
To be overwhelmed by it."
See! Me am do English good!
Seriously, though, at least 1/4 of the membership of the published Circle does live in the city itself and the rest are described as visiting it very often. If that doesn't count as being based there, it's close enough for me.
Mostly, I simplified things a bit to avoid deluging Tiejaz with Greyhawk fandom minutea."Deluging" isn't a word in common use.
You fractious contrarian, you.
Getting all pedantic about the formalities of lexicon.
Come come. Did you not submit this to psuedodictionary.com?
blurgh - A one word sentence that connotes a general feeling of discontent.
e.g., Blurgh.
You yourself prove that language is there to amuse. Blurgh. I like that.
That site reminds me of Sniglets. It's worth a cruise.
Come come. Did you not submit this to psuedodictionary.com?
...
How the heck did you know that?
Come come. Did you not submit this to psuedodictionary.com?...
How the heck did you know that?
Loremaster 15th level. Please to meet you.
I, also, am a devotee of nudging language around to fill an artistic need.
I have a long list of made up words myself. Who knew there was a home for such things.
No, how did you know that I had submitted that word?
What are you, some kind of internet stalker?
No, how did you know that I had submitted that word?
What are you, some kind of internet stalker?
If by stalker you mean spending less than two minutes on MSN search in order to make a point about lightening up and perhaps getting off everyone's back with your relentless and pedantic antagonism, yeah, I guess that makes me an internet loon.
We're just gamers here. Relax. No one is knocking on your door. We're both all over the net in this information age.
My name is Rone Barton and I live in New York. Are you an internet stalker now that you know that?
Seeing that a lack of anonymity seriously bothered you I tried to erase my earlier post but the option was no longer available. I hereby give all permission for Paizo.com to erase it forthwith.
Anyway, thejade@bowiewonderworld.com if you want to write to me directly. I'm done for the night.
I offer you a formal apology if my actions threatened you in any way.
And now to further stir the pot . . .
Drizzt Do'Urden is a character made up for the Forgotten Realms setting, not Greyhawk. Not only did Gygax not have anything to do with him, but he was also never a PC played by RA Salvatore. Salvatore has specifically pointed out that the only character that he has ever used in a novel that was based on a PC was Oliver DeBurrows, the highway halfling from the Crimson Shadow novels.
Drizzt was a last second idea that he had to create a sidekick for Wulfgar, who was to be the main character in the Crystal Shard. At the time Unearthed Arcana was the in thing (1e of course) and that specifically mentioned that drow could be rangers, and that they could fight two handed becuase they were ambidextuous, and thus the two scimitar drow ranger was born, spur of the moment before a book meeting.
Gygax's influence is felt, however, in the Dark Elf trilogy by RA Salavatore, as he drew a lot of lore on how dark elven society worked from the Queen of the Demonweb Pits series of modules.
Well, thanks for the answers... anyway, I HOPE yamo was using the idiom he posted, and not flooding me. I hate water.
If by stalker you mean spending less than two minutes on MSN search in order to make a point about lightening up and perhaps getting off everyone's back with your relentless and pedantic antagonism, yeah, I guess that makes me an internet loon.
I'm not worried about anonymity. You're speaking to the maniac who gave out his full name and real address to people who threatened to kill him on another message board. I ride a motorbike 30km to work at night, and 30km home in the morning, six days a week, rain, hail or otherwise. I work security and unlike most guards, I actually do my patrols.
The last thing I care about, is my own safety.
No, it ANGERED me that someone would go to the lengths you did to find out my real name. And you had to know my real name in order to find out about that blurgh post. And to find out my real name, the only information you had was my nick. Typing in my nick into a search engine, doesn't get you my real name in two minutes. Anyone else is welcome to try it to test your theory. I garauntee that it takes a concerted effort. And then, one would have to further type my real name into a search engine and click on dozens of links in order to find that blurgh reference, which was something I posted several years ago.
Scared? No... but what you did was definitely freaky. I suggest spending a few more hours outdoors, with living, breathing human beings. Maybe even talk to a couple of them. You never know, they might not stare, point and shout.
If by stalker you mean spending less than two minutes on MSN search in order to make a point about lightening up and perhaps getting off everyone's back with your relentless and pedantic antagonism, yeah, I guess that makes me an internet loon.I'm not worried about anonymity. You're speaking to the maniac who gave out his full name and real address to people who threatened to kill him on another message board. I ride a motorbike 30km to work at night, and 30km home in the morning, six days a week, rain, hail or otherwise. I work security and unlike most guards, I actually do my patrols.
The last thing I care about, is my own safety.
No, it ANGERED me that someone would go to the lengths you did to find out my real name. And you had to know my real name in order to find out about that blurgh post. And to find out my real name, the only information you had was my nick. Typing in my nick into a search engine, doesn't get you my real name in two minutes. Anyone else is welcome to try it to test your theory. I garauntee that it takes a concerted effort. And then, one would have to further type my real name into a search engine and click on dozens of links in order to find that blurgh reference, which was something I posted several years ago.
Scared? No... but what you did was definitely freaky. I suggest spending a few more hours outdoors, with living, breathing human beings. Maybe even talk to a couple of them. You never know, they might not stare, point and shout.
thejade@bowiewonderworld.com
I know you like spreading your negativity all 'round but maybe you could gift wrap it and send it straight to me because, unlike you, I feel like I'll have to apologize to everyone who may be offended if I flame someone in a public forum.
I didn't publicize your name. The LENGTHS I went to? Paging Dr. Ego. If I had known you'd take it so seriously that you'd start puffing out your chest and bragging how you ride a motorbike and how you're made of steel and stop crime on a daily basis...
I get it, you're afraid of no man nor beast and you eat bullets for breakfast and crap supernovas. Wow, you are so much man. With all that testosterone I'll bet you could just sneeze a girl pregnant.
You want to assume that I don't have a Harley? Assume away. You think you're the only body proud tough guy on Earth? Assume away. You think I don't have a rich social life? Assume away. If I corrected you I'd be a braggart and you surely wear that mantle today. If I insulted your station in life I'd be... well, you. I'd say low blow trying to insult the lifestyle you've imagined I lead but your presumptions are just so reaching and inane.
Arguing in circles...
It would have been enough to say, "Not cool. Bad netiquette."
You got your apology. Not good enough, huh? Never is, right?
What's this about death threats from another site? You latrine stirrer, you. If I had known that you'd had to deal with something like that I might have assumed you'd be bothered by my ill advised quote, but I know that it didn't really bother you because you are an eleventy seven foot tall spooky maniac from the wrong side of town. You play by your own rules and if anyone hits you they'd better kill you because you have a rage inside you that could melt a forge.
So if you're really so angry, drop me a line. I'd like a chance to speak with you realistically without all this "I'm such a manly man and your a weak geek with no social life" grandstanding bullcrap as it is all, all of it, so beside the point.
I'm not going to allow our soon to be forgotten go 'round to maintain a public face. It's just too sad and ugly.
If you say that its not worth your precious time, fine... but you've already spoken at length on the boards.
If you want me to let it go, something about life being too short to suffer fools, whatever, just say so. I'll abide, but just understand that you went after me first over an innocuously lighthearted post about celebrity and criticism. You did so indirectly, and when I followed suit, indirectyly that is, you called your very own tactic underhanded.
Action and reaction.
Damn, this is funny! I want more!
See what happens when you ask questions, Tiejaz? LOL.
I'm not sure about that. Gygax wrote a series of GH novels for TSR and later his own company in the mid 80's. Therein is mention of the Citadel of Five (or was it 8?) and told how this was the precursor to the modern Circle. Mordenkainen, as told in those novels, is chiefly concerned with the concept of "Balance" in the Flanaess. Not all of the Circle (then or now) agree with Mordenkainen's specific views, and this too was written in Gygax's novels. This was written before Sargent's work FROM THE ASHES. I beleive Sargent read Gygax's novels as research for his own project.
Yah, hence the 'IIRC', meaning I'm not 100% sure.
The Citadel of Five was the adventuring group including Robilar. Not sure how it all then progressed to the Circle of Eight. One thing I am sure about, though, is that Rary the Traitor was a complete piece of trash that made a mockery of the entire setting.
Yah, hence the 'IIRC', meaning I'm not 100% sure.The Citadel of Five was the adventuring group including Robilar. Not sure how it all then progressed to the Circle of Eight. One thing I am sure about, though, is that Rary the Traitor was a complete piece of trash that made a mockery of the entire setting.
I'm kinda new to this Greyhawk thing, and other than from Gary himself, I've never heard such a vigorous objection to Rary the Traitor before ... what's the issue?
-M-
I'm kinda new to this Greyhawk thing, and other than from Gary himself, I've never heard such a vigorous objection to Rary the Traitor before ... what's the issue?
Most Greyhawk fans are pretty die-hard. You can categorize them into two basic camps, anti-Sargent and pro-Sargent. There's a new category developing at the moment called MonaHawk, but that's in its infancy :D
I'm pro-Sargent. Which essentially means I accept as canon, material that was written after Gary (Gygax) left (was kicked out) of TSR.
Rary the Traitor is one of the very few pieces of work that I DON'T accept. It so blatently flies in the face of everything that was and is Greyhawk, and is just plain dumb. Up until that point, Rary was established as a quiet, non-threatening individual, who devoted himself solely to magic research and didn't involve himself in politics or power-plays. And even his involvement in the Circle was limited. But then, all of a sudden, he's a megalomaniac with visions of glory. Wtf? Robilar was the best friend of Mordenkainen. They created the Circle of Eight together. They adventured through their early careers together, and later in the land of the gods. Robilar had nothing to gain by pissing off his best mate and adventuring buddy of twenty years.
Then there's the plot of it. It's just ridiculous. Anything that involves travelling to the moon should be shot to peices. Worse, there's a completely uncalled appearance by Iggwilv. It's just retarded and should never have been published.
I have yet to read any of the Greyhawk setting, but am very familiar with the Drizzt novels. Those novels are what got me interested in DnD in the first place. My first character was a Dwarven fighter, and after that I began to play dark elves. My most notable character is a 16 level Drow Sorcerer/Fighter/Dragon Disciple (levels 3/3/10, respectively). I love playing this character and I hope to continue using him in the future.
Rary the Traitor is one of the very few pieces of work that I DON'T accept. It so blatently flies in the face of everything that was and is Greyhawk, and is just plain dumb. Up until that point, Rary was established as a quiet, non-threatening individual, who devoted himself solely to magic research and didn't involve himself in politics or power-plays. And even his involvement in the Circle was limited. But then, all of a sudden, he's a megalomaniac with visions of glory. Wtf? Robilar was the best friend of Mordenkainen. They created the Circle of Eight together. They adventured through their early careers together, and later in the land of the gods. Robilar had nothing to gain by pissing off his best mate and adventuring buddy of twenty years.
Then there's the plot of it. It's just ridiculous. Anything that involves travelling to the moon should be shot to peices. Worse, there's a completely uncalled appearance by Iggwilv. It's just retarded and should never have been published.
I'm a little lost...there must have been some novel I am not aware of.
Greyhawk Wars..which everyone seems to assume as canon, mentions Rary's Trechery at the end of the war..which I'd assumed was Sargent's call.
But Rary the Traitor the supplement appears to be written by Anthony Pyror. So how is that Sargent's fault? As for the moon, there is that part in the Return of the eight adventure, but not sure that what you refering too.
In my opinion, Rary the traitor is weak compared The Marklands and Iuz the evil, but not bad enough to toss out if you accept the original greyhawk wars plotline.
Actually, the thing I hate the most is the second part of the 5 swords series. Dale "Slade" Henson is one of the weakest writers they ever had and I was annoyed because the previous 5 shall be one was an excellent module.
Then there's the plot of it. It's just ridiculous. Anything that involves travelling to the moon should be shot to peices. Worse, there's a completely uncalled appearance by Iggwilv. It's just retarded and should never have been published.
It IS kind of wierd, him turning and all, but then those quiet introverts are capable of some strange things. BTW, you definitely have Rary the Traitor and Return of the Eight mixed up with each other. The latter involved going to the moon and involvement by Iggwilv. Not the former.
BTW, you definitely have Rary the Traitor and Return of the Eight mixed up with each other. The latter involved going to the moon and involvement by Iggwilv. Not the former.
Oh. Probably. I'm getting confused in my old age. Hell, I'm almost thirty :D
I actually find the idea of Rary the Traitor compelling and good. I mean, there HAS to be a traitorous megalomaniac for the sake of the story, and that might as well be the guy who never did anything. Better that way. I mean, who did you expect to the traitorous one?