I was thinking that it would be cool for one of the future issues to have a fighter vs. wizard theme. One of the feature articles could be a similer to the Samurai vs. Knight article, execpt it could be much more grounded by the rules, and would give sample characters and a sample arena.
Gaining prestige should be a prestige class that would exspand on the great sword fighter archtype (my brothers favorite), and the heroic feats section could be some aditional fighter bonus feats.
On the wizards side there could be additonal combat oriented spells in the spellcraft section and some cool wizard gear to sum it up.
In general I would like to see more themic dragon issues in the new format, the lack of central theme caused by all the familiars has made the magizine spines way too cluttered.
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Consider this my signiture:
You may not realize it, but that kobold has a +20 to strength, he is wielding a vorpal dancing sword, and he also has lazer eyes. :)
Bow down before his might, the power of evil and pie commands you!
I was thinking that it would be cool for one of the future issues to have a fighter vs. wizard theme. One of the feature articles could be a similer to the Samurai vs. Knight article, execpt it could be much more grounded by the rules, and would give sample characters and a sample arena.
Gaining prestige should be a prestige class that would exspand on the great sword fighter archtype (my brothers favorite), and the heroic feats section could be some aditional fighter bonus feats.
On the wizards side there could be additonal combat oriented spells in the spellcraft section and some cool wizard gear to sum it up.
In general I would like to see more themic dragon issues in the new format, the lack of central theme caused by all the familiars has made the magizine spines way too cluttered.---------------------------------------
Consider this my signiture:
You may not realize it, but that kobold has a +20 to strength, he is wielding a vorpal dancing sword, and he also has lazer eyes. :)
Bow down before...
Mr. Bob, you bring up a good point in that Dragon should publish more themed issues. As a subscriber, the issues that are most valuable to me are the ones that present a strong central theme. Though a lot of DM content has been moved to Dungeon, I still hope that the brilliant and much-lauded "Campaign Components" issues are not a thing of the past -- they were perhaps the best issues Dragon has published in the years since Third Edition came out. I have a large collection of Dragon issues; it's easiest to find the article on naming martial arts techniques when I know it's in the Oriental Adventures issue. Dragon: please keep doing strong themes like this!
It would be a refreshing change to have the fighter armed with no magic weapons or armor whatsoever.
If by "refreshing change" you mean "total slaughter of the fighter," yes.
Fighters barely stand up to wizards at higher levels even with magical equipment. Take that away, and they're basically dead in the water, unless you manipulate the situation to heavily favor the fighter. ("They turn a corner and find themselves face-to-face.")
It would be a refreshing change to have the fighter armed with no magic weapons or armor whatsoever.If by "refreshing change" you mean "total slaughter of the fighter," yes.
Fighters barely stand up to wizards at higher levels even with magical equipment. Take that away, and they're basically dead in the water, unless you manipulate the situation to heavily favor the fighter. ("They turn a corner and find themselves face-to-face.")
even then, for example
the tenth level fighter turns a corner and sees a tenth level wizard
roll initiative=wizard goes first
turn 1: wizard takes 5 ft. step and casts lightning bolt for 30 damage
fighter takes a 5 ft. step and hits the wizard twice for 22 damage,
turn 2: wizard runs back-provoking attack for 16 damage,
fighter walks forward, planning to charge the wizard next turn
turn 3: wizard casts maximized fireball for 60 damage, the fighters dead
I was thinking that it would be cool for one of the future issues to have a fighter vs. wizard theme
I agree that it would be fun to see an article of that sort! In all honesty, I'd love to see if people could come up with ideas for how to make the two combatants equivalent. . . without having one have too much of an advantage.
The wizard generally has range on his side, as well as magical prowess. However, your fighter has armor as well as the fact that if he's quick he could get a hit in before the wizard could react.
Anyone else ideas on this topic? :D Cause it would be fun to see ^^
Well, it's pretty hard for the fighter. Armor doesn't matter much, because many of the wizards' spells don't need to roll to hit, and many of the ones that do are touch or ranged touch attacks anyway. So the fighter's armor advantage is pretty limited, although it helps against summoning spells.
The fighter can go two ways here. First, he can pick a big weapon like a greatsword, greataxe, or falchion, go with light armor for the movement speed, and add magic items that make him more maneuverable, like winged boots or a helm of teleportation. Then he buys a brooch of shielding, the best cloak of protection he can afford, and maybe a ring of evasion. He tries to close the distance and thwack the wizard. He only needs maybe three solid hits to do it, and he's protected reasonably well against the wizard's automatic-hit spells (magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt, and so forth) and, thanks to the boosted saves, against the wizard's automatic-win spells (charm person, baleful polymorph, flesh to stone, dominate person).
Second, he can go the archery route. With the feats he has available and a magical mighty composite longbow, he can try to turn the wizard into a pincushion. He'll need more hits to do it than the melee guy would, but he can take Manyshot shots using Shot on the Run while he goes from one location of cover/concealment to another. Extra movement is helpful here.
The wizard, on the other hand, has the advantage. One displacement or mirror image or greater invisibility can ruin the fighter's day. He's got a number of spells that win the fight for him instantly if they work, and a lot of those spells have a Will save, where the fighter will be weak. He has range that's hard to match even with a longbow, and he doesn't generally suffer penalties because of range the way the fighter does. He can move around pretty freely with fly, dimension door, and the like. He can even protect himself with stoneskin and protection from arrows, making his low hit points stretch further. He has spells that can counter many of the fighter's moves, while the fighter can't inherently do anything about his.
Now, cleric vs. wizard, that's a different story...
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I don't understand this thread. If the wizard really have the total advantage then why the red wizards of thay in the forgotten realms did'nt take over the world by now? the fact that they now sell magicial weapons and armor to fighters who might use them against them(not very likely) should be a clear-cut clue that one cannot rely such things? I mean whats the point of bonus fighter feats if one does'nt use them in the first place?
I don't understand this thread. If the wizard really have the total advantage then why the red wizards of thay in the forgotten realms did'nt take over the world by now?
Writers' fiat.
Also, there are many powerful good wizards who would oppose them. I think there must be 10 high-level wizards in the Realms for every high-level member of any other class. Which in itself says something.
But fair enough. How would you set up an encounter between a high-level wizard and a high-level fighter, in which the fighter has no magical equipment, such that the fighter would win?
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I don't understand this thread. If the wizard really have the total advantage then why the red wizards of thay in the forgotten realms did'nt take over the world by now?Writers' fiat.
Also, there are many powerful good wizards who would oppose them. I think there must be 10 high-level wizards in the Realms for every high-level member of any other class. Which in itself says something.
But fair enough. How would you set up an encounter between a high-level wizard and a high-level fighter, in which the fighter has no magical equipment, such that the fighter would win?
my point exactly! i was trying to raise the issue of spells vs. skill regardless of level or prestige class. it would be hypocritical for both sides to use magicial rings,staffs,swords or armor in order to be better than the other. i am sorry i did'nt make myslef clear in my earlier posts.
Well, that's fine. But I put to you that it is, in fact, impossible for the fighter to consistently defeat the wizard at higher levels without using magical equipment. The reason is simply that the fighter is good at one thing: weapon use. The wizard is good at one thing also: magic. But magic encompasses much, much more than weapon use does.
Movement: The fighter has no feats that will allow him to fly, but the wizard can do so as early as level 5 (or levitate at level 3). The fighter cannot teleport; the wizard can starting at level 7 (dimension door). The fighter can move at most 60 feet (assuming standard races and feats) and attack, by charging; the wizard can move 60 feet and cast a spell, if he knows expeditious retreat. This makes it tough for the fighter to get into melee with the wizard.
Defense: The fighter has armor, but it's largely useless against spells (see above post). The fighter's armor cannot grant a miss chance (blur, displacement, mirror image in a sense); the wizard gains these spells at low level. The wizard's AC can easily approach the fighter's, if the fighter is limited to nonmagical armor (mage armor, shield). In fact, if the fighter is wearing light armor for mobility, the wizard's AC is probably better. The wizard gets access to spells that cut down the fighter's damage, such as stoneskin and protection from arrows. (The fighter *can* gain access to Deflect Arrows, providing vaguely similar ranged defense, but it costs him two feats and doesn't work against the wizard's spells anyway.)
Attack: The fighter always has to make an attack roll. The wizard has many spells that have no attack roll. Some of these (magic missile) don't even allow a saving throw. Others (charm person) win the fight for the wizard if they work. The fighter has no way to instantly win -- and his Reflex and Will saves are both weak, so he has little resistance to the wizard's 'gotcha' spells.
And that assumes the wizard is willing to fight face to face. Wizards bring whole new meaning to the phrase "hit and run" if they want to.
Is the fighter just weak, then? No. It's good at what it does. But what it does happens to be very unsuited to going up against a wizard with no support. The fighter needs allies, magical gear, or both to take on an equal-level wizard beyond maybe the first couple of levels. No matter what feats they choose, they won't make very good wizard-killers without such support.
Is the wizard overpowered, then? No. Other classes have abilities more suited to taking them out one-on-one -- rogues, monks, clerics, even paladins. But the fighter is not among those classes. The fighter lacks the stealth, save bonuses, and magic that those other classes use to offset the wizard's variety of spells. In fact, the fighter may be the poorest class to pit against the wizard.
That said, maybe you can come up with some way for a fighter to consistently beat a wizard without using magical gear. If you can, then I'd say that's worthy of an article; evil wizards are pretty common, and the tactics would certainly interest the fighter players, even though they normally have both allies and magic.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Actually to be fair neither Fighter or Wizard should be "built" specifically for this match. You have to take a Fighter and a Wizard that have actually been played in a campaign, adhere to the wealth per level guidelines, and probably restricted to core equip/PrC's.
Um, isn't the point of D&D for PCs of various classes to work together? What exactly does a whole article devoted to a silly "fighter versus wizard deathmatch" have to do with anything in the context of the game?