robin's page

Dotting . And welcome back BT !

This is great but then it is a can of worms

You then have THIS player :
'Can i use this feat/spell who is totally unbalanced , will allow me the shine over the other players and ruin the campaign for everyone '

I guess this all depends of your players

Wizard with a bent toward summoning/enchantment spells

* Charm person at 1st level is a spell where opposed charisma check can happen and yes it is perfectibly reasonable for the charmed creature to fight the dargon for juste one more round while you are making your escape (warning : this is not a goody tactic)

* At more important level , you will begin calling extra planar creatures and asking them services . high charisma help .

What really terrify me is that not only the player plays like this but that his DM let him get away with this ...
Either there are scrolls of atonement around to buy or the 9 lvl cleric casting atonement on him see nothing wrong in having the character show up every few days .

Paladin are paragons
They should not only meet expectations but exceed them

So while one minor fail is no reason for him to fall , he should at least show repentance and wows never to do it again

Step 1 : Accept the surrender by saying : I accept , we will discuss terms after this battle

Step 2 : After the battle, speak with him. ' These are the terms : you are to go from here to the nearest town and there surrender to the authorities citing that you were (short description of the crime).
If this means the travel there could be dangerous, I will let you have some normal armor and weapons. If you do not accept , get up and we are fighting again. "
Options there : * have the prisoner join you .
* Free him in exchange of information if his crime is not that important

Another but harsher way (if by example you are attacking some evil creatures is to begin the fight by saying 'No quarter will be given'

In my game , Orik met the party while they were reeling away from the temple. He helped them leave thistletop and in exchange , they surrendered an unconscious Lyrie and her equipement to him :)
So I would say his luck had changed :)

Feather Fall without question since I tend to be prone to the falling Phobia .

As a first level , Comprehend languages would be too limited.

Put him as Neutral at the beginning and he certainly has the potential to either become good or evil .
Let the adventures you will go on decide what he will become.

The point is that both ways the criminal cease to exist.
One way he is dead , the other way he has been abruptly changed .

Redemption or prison hope to show the criminal the evil of his act and makes him change his ways. There is no change in the helmet, there is a transformation of one person to one another by magic.
Change the race, sex or whole outlook of a person is a violation of what this person thinks of himself .

Dominate is forcing a person to act against his beliefs but the inner people are still there , Charm just persuade a person you are his best friend but his take on other people do not change.

Now all your posts got me thinking a way of using two helmets as a redemption gimmick .
Take a LE people , make him CG and then just after makes him LE again . Then tell him , now you have seen what the other side really is . your choice to stay as you are or change .
That would still be extreme but I could see some of my good characters doing so.

Goblin are certainly cowards still and your PCs do not have 1st level written on them .
Some will take cover , some will fire , some will wait to see how it goes
this give a chance for your Pcs to find a more defensible position

The more I think about it, the more I am torn

Case 1
Character Knowledge : "This is a big construct who hurt us and seem to have a big DR and spell resistance. Let me summon a lantern archon, their rays work against them . "
Acceptable

Case 2
Character Knowledge : "This is an Iron Golem. It is immune to magic"
There would be no reason for a character to try a lantern archon against the golem

Case 3
Character Knowledge : "This is an Iron Golem. It is immune to Spell and Spell like effects but not to Ex effects "
This would need a knowledge arcana to know that the Iron Golem is in fact immune to spell and spell like effects but not to EX or SU effects"
Trying a lantern archon whether or not you are sure their rays are spell like or not would be acceptable

So did your character know nothing , a little or a lot about the golem ?
It would only be cheating in the second case.

I tend to think that characters when they acquire a new spell test it.
At least I think this is true for summons

As a character , I would not wait until I am in real combat to test how my spells work. I would test them first in a controlled environment.

With some summoned creatures like animals ,I can not really communicate so could have problems giving them specific orders but since I can actually speak with lantern Archons, I would not have the problem with them

As a DM

I would not make you roll on knowledge planes. As many people said, you are supposed to know what you can summon.

I would make you roll on knowledge arcana to know the weaknesses of an iron golem and know that the type of damage of a lantern archon would in fact be useful against it while your own were not
(Going to a town and asking a sage would also work )

If you failed I would rule you would not have tried the tactic thinking it would not work

It was indeed cheating . you applied player knowledge to your character

A good way to have done this would have been to
* research the information as a player
* Ask the DM which knowledge roll to make to know the weaknesses of an iron golem
* If the roll was successful, then the DM should have allowed you to use these tactics. If not, then your character would not have know this tactic .

'Appendix 217a : As reffered in section ... all attacks against the recovery agent by the supplicant (as defined in ...) or his agents( as defined in ) will result in the immediate forfeiture by the supplicant of his soul without any possibility of redemption . At the next death of the supplicant , his soul will be immediately sent to ... by the nearest pharasmin agent'

These is a Cornugon not a stupid demon. The contract has definitely a clause like this

Now it would be more interesting to see how the term 'family' is defined. A quest to have the family name changed by the king could be a solution.

Diplomacy is not bluff

If you become my best buddy in life , I will certainly lend you money without interest as long as I can afford to but I won't endanger my lifehood if it means I will need that money to pay bills . And when I don't see the money coming back , our relations would not stay the same.

If you succeed in making me believe that by giving you money I'll become richer , I will indeed give you that money but when I'll find I have been swindled , I'll go to the police and have the law on you . and I am a law-abiding non-violent person. Swindling A crime boss like Al capone could get you your own plot of land permanently ... Swindling a wizard could be even more dangerous...

Another interesting choice to be evil is to come from an evil culture

If you have been harmed as a child , it will be normal for you to harm those weaker than you .
you can also ressent being weaker than someone and wait patiently for those stronger than you to be in a position of weakness so you can then kill them

Think what your character would be like if he came from a gender oppressing culture. then decide if your character is one of the master of this culture or one who want revenge against his oppressors and tend to think than all males are to be castrated whenever you have to can do so.

Your character will then have a tragic component. Think Regina in Once for example.

There are also the fact that hodor will not have good saves so will tend to be charmed or frightened easily

Command 'Drop' -> prone gnome

Once Hodor is dead , if your player do it again , tell him this is an evil act

Just be a follower of a god !
The fates described are for those who do not believe enough.

If you are LE but follow a LN god for example , you won't go to Hell but will become a petitioner in the god's place after death

NPCs to the rescue : After the unfortunate deaths of our heroes , a group of NPCs come in and recover their corpses. Their equipement is used by the NPCs to buy the diamants for a raise .

I would allow it but the reputation of the paladin would suffer
Let him see that he is perceived as a pure mercenary next time he tries to extoll his god ...

A paladin knowing no fear is absurd:
* I have no fear the commoners are going to die/be Corrupted or anything like that so I do not need to help them ...
* People should not fear for their beloved . This is illogical . God will provide. If they do , they are faithless heretics.

If you do not know fear , you can not understand why some people react the way they do and this hinders your capacity to feel compassion for the fallibilities of people
If you want to do this , play an inquisitor not a paladin ...

Whatever you do , DO NOT RUN !

Or rather do not run until really necessary then run like HELL

In my opinion, it is the DM's job when he approves a PC character to check if there could mean PVP down the line .
Now, if a situation develop in game where a character is pushed to attack another, it is the DM's job to insure the combat is run within the rules .
But that's all !
Tryin to defuse a PVP situation lead in my opinion to players' frustration and so destroy their enjoyment of the game. Either the campaign stops because players are not motivated anymore or the PVP situation become more and more ugly and then explodes your campaign

Repeatedly saying "This campaign has more to deal with narrative than challenges, which means that if push comes to shove I will likely nerf challenges if I see that you are in trouble, and I am more willing to use some kind of Deus Ex Machina to keep you alive rather than kill you if the narrative would be better for it. You are unlikely to need to roll for a new character unless your character runs out of stakes and is no longer relevant to the plot. This is barring situations of supreme stupidity like jumping off of a cliff with no plan or touching the magic item clearly labeled "Do not touch! Skin will come off!""

... and reemphasizing it whenever they want to run away from a monster because it looks too scary doesn't seem to be enough.

Paraphrasing :

Just a question .
Why are there character here ?

If they are just here to loot the place, actually running away each time an encounter seems too difficult is a good solution but then why should someone else help them ?

If they are heroes here to save the village/town/kingdom/plane , you should consider once or twice do the following : when they run for help, help is too far away and when they come back , everyone they wanted to save is DEAD.

A good thing is to describe the foes as not eager to enter into the fray. When you see one orc laughing at the group and taunting them into attack , the smart reaction is to look around and maybe decide to come back later . When the twelve orcs seem nervous and clutch their axes while looking at the door behind them , you might be allowed to think the fight is doable . Your players may be used to another style of play when , if the Big Guy seem sure he can wipe the party, this is in fact the other DM subtle way to tell the players they can not win the fight .

If I want to DM a game and all my other players want to play another , I am always ready to let one of them DM and I'll be a player ...

Umbriel , I do not want to offence but about your propositions for characters for political intrigue campaign in Kyonin , that would be my replies

Your half nymph countess would be great . If you want to be a countess and have the advantage thereof , please take a level in aristocrat .

Ashley could play my elf blooded angelspawn aasimaar melee oracle butler, Sir Alexander, who fights with cutlery (improvised weapons that deal 1d6.) . no problem

Dale could play my Dwarven Fighter Bodyguard; Sir Roargar Klaus Thundershield : Sorry. The law in Kyonin do not accept non sylvan or elvish themed people out of a really trade town

Aaron could play my tutor and librarian, a Dhampir Conjuration Wizard named Sabrina Nicoletti : same problem

Matt Could decide to play my Chef. a male Drow Dervish Magus named Cherie : Being a drow is a criminal offense in Kyonin punishable by death . His character would last about 10 minutes ...

Javier could by my wandering mystic, a male Vudrani blooded tiefling Psion whom came from the deserts of casmaron to escape a powerful Rhakshasa overlord .: Human again

Andy could play my other bodyguard, a male Half-Orc Barbarian named Ashe
Same problem as with the dwarf or human

George could play my hired guide and hunter, a male Elven Switch hitter ranger named Grell : No problem

Harvey could play the religious consultant of the party who works as my Physician, a male human cleric of Pharasma from Varisia named William
Human again ...

Kevin could play yet another bodyguard. the holy knight Alastair, a male human paladin : Human Again

Seth could play my gatekeeper, a male human Urban Switch hitter Ranger from Geb named Victor : Human again

Now it might be that you being a countess you would be allowed to bring your human , dwarf or half-orc servants in the country. Be aware that you will be responsible for any crimes they do in Kyonin and that they will have malus diplomatically. the situation will be even worse for the dhampir and the thiefling. So this political campaign will revolve about you in fact and I'll so inform the other players .
As for the drow , even being a countess do not allow you to have an abomination as a servant .

In a word Competition and Selfishness
When you create another shadow , you create somemone who is going to steal YOUR kills .
As I shadow I want to slowly drain the life of MY victims , not see someone else do it .

A long time ago , my NG Wizard met Father Christmas...
Despite all our efforts to be diplomatic , Father Christmas attacks us . We try and try to stop the fight but no success.
So, as not to die, we had to kill a Father Christmas who acted CE.

The DM had the gall after that to tell us that our characters were hated by all children everywhere ...

What I do is the following :
* PCs speak
* Giving on what they have said, I decide the DC.
* They have a malus/bonus depending on how they Role played ( I tend to be genereous there )

They automatically succeed if in a no stress situation , the DC is 10 or in a stress situation the DC is 20 (unless this is a special roll covered like changing the attitude of an NPC permanently)

So there is several possibilities
* Case 1 : The player : 'Balrus make a Intimidate Roll ' . There is not specifics menaces so high DC and no RP so no Bonus
* Case 2 : The player : 'Balrus comes into the shop , looks at the windows , and comment on how fragile they are while holding his mace ...' There is a real menace to DC is medium but no real RP . So DC medium and bonus
* Case 3 : The player 'Balrus comes into the shop and hails the shopkeeper 'Hello , you are Smith, aren't you ? I just saw your bootiful (chuckle) wife and daughters passing in the street . You should take care someone does not take advantage of them' Player then chuckle evilly followed by the others players . Great menace , Good RP , Other players are assissting Roll is often waved off ... The merchant will complain to the next policeman once the PCs are not there anymore but that's intimmidation for you

Make your players know you are using this method and they should at least make a effort .

An easy way to play a lawful thief is to have a master .

Whether it is your mafia don , military officer or something else , he is the ones who will give you orders to break the law thus allowing you to do thing you would not do on your own.

This way you are just a soldier obeying orders .
And, if your DM is really mean, he will use the concept of illegal orders :)

Some combos
* Invisibility + summon monsters or swarm(vermin) + confusion
Vermin (aka fiendish spiders) are immune to confusion
* Mind fog + enchantment spells

Dimension door ( still and silent if you can)

I would forget Magic Missile and Group Damage Spells . They won't be enough to kill the players before he kills you

I did not see Prismatic Ray or Solid Fog in the list .

What worries me there is that there is no way my player characters would stop one hour to clean an altar when at any moment TO THEIR KNOWLEDGE the big Evil will succeed in his plan ...

Batman does not beat Civilians . He might yell at them to take cover or flee but that would be about all .

This is not a real problem but an occasion to make your player learn .

If they go as far as beating Horgun, ask for an intimidate roll from your player and remind him that intimidate has negative consequences

If he let Horgun die , just tell him that while this might not be a cause for him to become neutral , this is a step in this direction.

If Horgun survive, have him recompense the players who did take his defense but not the others .

If you want to take the easy way out, ask your players for Sense Motive rolls and explain then that Horgun's ways are because he is in fact panicking

That's part of the challenge of being Good :
Helping people you do not like survive

That might also be a part of why the wizard is blind , this points to the fact he WILL not survive without help.

If your players do not play good , let them do so but remember Anevia will know of it . A word from her to clarify this kind of situation might help .

I would do it by being sure of yourself about things you have skills for :
Knowledge history : Everyone knows what happened in Magnimar the 7 april 998
But when you do not have the knowledge , just don't say anything .

In short be arrogant not about yourself but about what you know .
When someone contracdict you,(it will happen), cite your sources (even if as a player you have to invent them on the spot) and offer to lend the book to the players next time you all are in riddleport .

At first sight , looks like ok for a four people party.
With three people , a bit of unluck can move into TPK real fast

The points to watch out for are :
* AC 19 et DR 5 Bludgeoning : given your group , I doubt they had knowledge Undead : so when the fight will touch the AC , it would take at least two rounds to do 18hp damage .
* Cleric : The fighter has wounded him . One Channel Energy later he is healed and the group is wounded... At worse he'll sacrifice a second level spell for spontaneous healing
* Scythe : the damage on this can kills the fighter in two rounds and any of the others in one round. Happily he does not have improved trip ....

So all in all a really difficult fight which can go either way even with good players tactics .

difficult to judge
Send each of us one and we'll be better able to reply

Frankly I do not see the problem .
Ok he has + 25 Stealth with all the skills .
He attacks and makes a new stealth check to see if his is still hidden afterwards
First check the type of bonus he has . They might not stack ....
Even they stack the new stealth check is normally at -20 ( I understand he has succeeded at putting it at -10 but still he will roll 1d20+15 , the enemies will roll 1d20+3 (many monsters and antagonists have a decent perception)
He will succeed for some times and then will roll a 4 while one of the enemy will roll a 17 and will move into contact with him . Once there , all people will be able to spot him
Once spotted, my interpretation is that he will not be able to reenter stealth .

261 Patting a small child on the head while giving him 2 cp (you can be evil and like small children)

262 Waxing his mustache (all great villains have mustaches)

263 Speaking to a mirror where only black is visible : 'Yes! Dread Master , I hear and obey '

you could try Gaia

Your player took risks
He failed
Let him face the consequences

If there is no danger , there is no point

Do you want him to think : I can do anything . My DM won't kill me "

It is not a 'good' or a 'lawful' strategy but it is not evil or chaotic either.

The only possible problems are the following in my opinion :
* While the PCs' actions might me directed toward the other evil , they are still free to do evil in the world and will certainly do so
* In an evil kingdom , there might be oppressed people. Letting evil people attack this kingdom means the tactics used might hurt the innocent while if the good people would do it , they would take care of avoiding this

Given the will save , baleful polymorph is one option ...

171 : You are the rogue and they trust you .

42 :)
Hell has the response to everything !

Just to say : 'Charm Person' spell are not eternal and then the NPC remembers the feelings he had for you and knows they might not have been natural

That's where High charisma is important . Once the character is charmed , you can use diplomacy so that when the spell ends , he will still be your friend

But if you used the spell to make do things he would never have done, he will still remember you were the one who made him do it ...