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I've been looking at doing some sort of firearm build around basically making 1 bit attack. Maybe it won't kill things immediately but it will definitely do some damage.
We're using early firearms meaning for touch AC attacks its only first range increment meaning most attacks are at 30-40ft.

The main idea was to use an investigator. I know there's slayer, rogue, ect.. type archetypes called sniper but i'm not a huge fan of sneak attack especially with ranged weapons. Investigator has the advantage of studied combat effectively letting them get a to-hit that by the end basically has you on par with a fighter with their weapon training bonus (just without that 4th iterative) and their studied strike is like sneak attack, but you can only do it once, but the advantage is that it isn't conditional like sneak attack, nor negated by fortification.

I'm a bit stuck on whats the best way to build it.

Right now these are the options i'm looking at.

1. Steel Hound Investigator for 20 levels to maximize on studied strike. Using a musket. Using Kirin style with combat stamina to get Int on all my damage. Then either vital strike and/or Impressive Grit for dead shot int mod times per day.

2. Sleuth investigator and from 3, 5, or 7 levels of gunslinger (musket master). 3 is the minimum to get free action reloading for 2h firearms with academical cartridges, and might as well just so there's no downtime for reloading. 5th to get dex to damage, which seems really good as i'll be dex/int heavy meaning kirin style + this with stamina would have me adding int and dex to every attack. And finally 7th gets me dead shot for real, which is just a slightly better vital strike, but i'll have a grit and luck pool to pull from that i can regen rather than having daily limits on (though my wis/cha won't be super high even if i'm at the minimum its 2 points, and bare minimum impressive grit will let me get the equivalent of signature deed with it without needing to be gunslinger 11).

I'm a bit torn because the 2nd option loses me anywhere from 2d6, to 3d6, 4d6 dice. The bonus to hit isn't as big as you're getting full BAB levels.

Regardless in both it'll require ranged study so i'm not limited to a melee weapon for studied strike, but otherwise the big thing between builds is maximizing damage, and if dead shot is worth it.

With the release of the Divine Anthology along with the Divine Fighting Technique of "Densa's shooting star" which allows for CHA to Hit and Damage when attacking with a starknife. The advanced prerequisites for the upgraded ability doesn't really seem useful as the base ability allows for melee or ranged, but the final ability is a full round single attack that can deal 1-4 hits of damage.

As such i was thinking about how to utilize this in a interesting build and was looking for ideas.

So far the main ways i see to capitalize on this:
1. A level dip into oracle with the lore mystery can replace dex with cha for AC and reflex allowing to make dex effectively a dump stat.
2. It has caster stat synergy with Oracle, Bard, Eldritch Scion Magus, Sorcerer, and Paladin.
3. One could get AC bonus with the Scaled Fist monk archetype, though dex can't be a dump stat then as it won't stack with lore oracle.
4. There technically is nothing against using a large or huge for a 1h or 2h variant on the starknife.

The main build ideas I've had are.
1. Eldritch Scion Magus for melee.
2. Arcane Duelist bard for melee.
3. Slayer with a 1 level dip into lore oracle for either melee or ranged TWF build.
4. Swashbuckler/Daring Champion to maximize on Panache.

Any interesting ideas anyone might have would be helpful as I'm uncertain how to fully maximize on this as most ideas i have for this run into problems meeting certain requirements when trying to add anything interesting like feint/two weapon feint.

Daw wrote:

Ranmy,

Being interested in the corruptions is not a bad thing, it can make for an interesting character. It is there for a reason. Believing that the downsides are stupid and should have never been put in (and this has been posted) is munchkin. Concern over how fast it takes you over is a matter of taste. Believing that you should be able to avoid any downsides, is not a matter of taste. I don't see you falling into the Munchkin camp from what you have posted.

The problem isn't that there ARE downsides, the problem is the downsides FAR outweigh any potential strengths the corruptions may have even had. The result is a punishment system.

The Benefits/Stains are simply not even close to equal, and that's not even including the whole three strikes and you hand your DM your character sheet and go back to browsing tumblr for the rest of the session clause.

Honestly the penalties should outweigh the benefits. If we gave up feats/class features to use these there would be argument. But right now you can slap this stuff on top of anything.

I think the stain system is nice and is fine, the Lich one is a little nasty, but considering that if you're lucky the only time you need to save is when you level up and get new spells its not the worst thing ever.

My only problem were the corruption levels and how its possible to lose a character to it extremely fast to it, considering the system seems to be intended to want to give you greater benefits with growing burden as you level it makes sense to have some sort of finality.

I was partially wrong on the "no way to reverse stages" option as there's a 6th level spell calls "Alleviate corruption" allowing you to reverse 1 stage of corruption, and even remove a level of manifestation should the save be too difficult to keep up with. 6th level is a bit late to be able to handle it, but it is an option. The downside being you have to make a CL check and if you fail too hard you gain their corruption and get a manifestation level. And you can't self-cast it. So its not a perfect solution.

Stave off corruption is a 2nd level cleric/paladin spell that can grant a +2 on the saves, so its helpful as well in case you know their save is coming up soon.

That said the best prepared to combat the corruptions are paladins and clerics, which is funny considering a paladin is more likely to just off your character then let you try to keep hold of a corruption for power. Though a neutral cleric, or oracle would at least be cool with it.

A Wild rager dip would be a very close option to giving you something like that. If you kill something while raging you have to make a will save or get the confused condition which can range from attacking an ally, acting normally, doing nothing, or hurting yourself.

So I just found out this archetype exists and that Paizo has finally made a functional ranged magus with spell combat rather than a weird switch-hitter.

So the main question I have now is there any benefit to mixing it with Spellslinger.

I was looking at it and trying to weigh the Pros and Cons of it.

PRO:
1. Ability to cast Cone/Line spells through the gun before level 16
2. Add Enhancement Bonus to Atk or DC of Spell
3. Stuff cast through gun is at X3 Crit
4. Get firearm proficiency
5. If a foe is beyond the range increment of the firearm a arcane gun attack would allow a touch attack at greater range than normal at the cost of a little bit of weapon damage.
6. Spellstrike even at 16 never allows Cone/Line spells in a AOE format meaning spells like Lightning bolt nor matter what would only hit 1 foe.

CONS:
1. Not using spellstrike in any scenario cuts out weapon damage
2. Eventually Focusing Spellstrike invalidates benefits of the 1st in non-aoe scenarios.
3. No real support for the gun so either a gunslinger dip or amateur gunslinger just to get quick clear would be needed.
4. Losing a caster level (get trait to fix that)
5. Losing BAB & Spell level progression
6. Using a firearm is feat intensive, if we go amateur gunslinger thats 1, rapid reload is 2.
6. One handed firearms are the limit as 2h would require a 3 level dip into musket master and at that point we're 2 CL down with magical knack and instead of losing 1 6th level spell for the dip we'd go down to having only 1 6th level spell.

Most important thing i find about worldbuilding is making it feel more alive. Make stuff happen without the players interacting with it.

Sometimes if the party takes too long and they were supposed to save a place, well too late everything bad that they were to prevent happens before they get there.

War is declared while they inside a dungeon.

NPC they met awhile back has been taken to the dungeon for some crime.

ect...

I find it best to write a timeline with general events the party will find out. Then modify based on how they interact with it.

While this sounds like building the plot this would be in some cases separate from the plot and just something in the world happening to make it feel more that the world is turning without them.

And using the above suggestions from others for building the world out you should have a simple time figuring out how all the dominoes will fall over time once everything is setup up to start.

Problem with kinteticist is they limit you hard as its very tied to class level.

"Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus."
Only for feats so other class features that would let you work with a specific weapon type are out.

Flurry of blasts is based on level to determine how many blasts you attack with.

BUUUUT.

Kinetic blade...
"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action (and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast’s damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier)."

So we get BAB + its a light/one handed melee weapon (oh hey now we got some class features that latch onto that).

"You create a non-reach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter."

Oh hey its finessable if you want as well because we can just list it as a light weapon.

Constitution for damage mod makes it a prime bloodrager or barbarian (either con damage bonus or just the static melee damage bonus from unchanied). Throw raging brutality to add your constitution a second time as a swift action. And you're all constitution so spending rounds of rage will matter less.

Now this is where it gets fun:

"The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type."

Congratulations, build it around energy blasts you'll only deal 1/2 con damage (and it sounds like spell resistance can get in the way) but you're a melee who now focuses on touch attacks for full rounds. Raging brutality is now even more of your best friend because you can get that extra modified damage back.

Side note: Kinetic Anhilator lets you do this as well without having to subject yourself to burn, use your level as BAB, as well as do 1-1/2 con mod if you don't use more than 1 (if you do you can twf this have to wait untl 6th level before the class allows you this). Downside is the damage dice is capped at 1d6 and you can't use energy blasts so no touch AC fun. Still has an interesting amount of possibilities.

Edit: Basically this is all to state kinetic blade will hault the damage progression for multi-classing. But as long as you can get stuff that targets light/1h weapons and/or melee weapons for bonuses other classes can slip in for boosting it. In just about every case i would suggest a Full-BAB class just to get the most out of this because if you're not doing Elemental Annihilator you'll want to do as many touch attack melee attacks as you can.

Edit2: I will mention barbarian/bloodrager seems like the most optimal options as they will give you the most static damage boost for this. Otherwise most other choices will leave you weaker than a normal kineticist due to how quickly the blasts scale. (1d6 + 1d6/2 levels after 1st meaning anywhere between 1d6 and 10d6 at max) or composite blasts (maxing out at 20d6). So you'll likley want to strike a happy medium between getting as many full round attacks +static boosts and as many die of damage you can between the barbarian's levels and the kineticist's levels.

I've been tossing around a few ideas within my group as well as others about a highly survivable character who doesn't wear armor.

This is the basic idea so far:
1. Original Style Monk with Master of Many styles + Monk of the iron mountain. Take it to level 2.
2. Unchained Rogue for 4 or even more levels.
3. ???
4. Profit.

The basic idea is:
Monk: Wisdom to AC - Makes 2 stats count to armor, makes headband a new source of AC.
Monk: Iron mountain gives toughness and +1 natural armor
Monk: Master of many styles allows 2 free style feats without needing any prerequisites outside of the main feat as well as mixing 2 styles.
-Crane style for fighting defensively at -1 penalty for +4 dodge bonus (assuming i have the ranks in acrobatics for that bonus to it as well).
-Snapping turtle style for a +2 shield bonus (that applies to touch with a later feat.
Rogue: with 11 intellect i can get major magic, granting me 1 spell of my choice as a spell like ability from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. So for a little intellect investment i'll chose mage armor.
Rogue: weapon finesse + dex to damage allowing me to ignore strength.

this character would obviously take a bit of time for this all to fully come together but I imagine playing around swapping between monk/rogue trying to get bonus feats to align up right.

But it would basically be:
+1 natural + 2 shield + 4 dodge + 4 armor + dex + wis

So assuming they're always fighting defensively before we calculate in dex/wisdom we'd be sitting at a 22 AC.

More if we get the dodge feat involved and possibly even improved natural armor it could be even higher.

I contemplated getting free-hand or some other fighter archetype involved after the rogue levels to help alleviate the feat intensity of this build but not certain.

So i guess i was curious if this seems like a solid plan, maybe some different feats, classes, or maybe even get some prestige classes involved. I've just looked rogue/monk so far just because rogue let me get the finesse as well as mage armor with relative ease without needing to do any spellcaster dips.

Mystic theurge can be nice but its definitally something that you want to start at high level and work from there.

I tried this once and this is what will occur if you want to not be dead weight.
You go sorcerer/oracle or sorcerer (with the bloodline to use wisdom) with druid.

Thematically sorcerer/oracle is fun, mechanically druid lets you get divine 2nd level spells by level 3 (without the deity strings like oracle).

For super un-optimal fun try Eldritch Scion Magus + Oracle.

I found the best way if you're starting low-level 1-3 or even 5-8 is to build as the following.

1. Be in a group with another spellcaster, preferrably one who is a blaster.
2. Be ok with being buff dispenser and nothing more.
3. Try not to think about how much more XP you need for that next level to get 1 step closer to the promised land.

Basically make all of your cantrips/spells buffs. No control, no debuffs. Maybe a blast ability by the time you get level 3 spells but otherwise focus on buffing.

The reason for this is as follows:
1. You're running around with lower level spells meaning the DC for a good chunk will be under whats appropriate for the enemy resulting in alot of wasted turns.
2. You have alot of spell slots so there's no reason to save it for a rainy day.
3. Your caster level is going to be low. You can trait 1 up a little higher, but end of the day until you start progressing with the theurge.
4. You're going to have a harder time choosing a school of magic to focus on between the two spells lists.

End of the day a theurge is a buff dispenser and nothing more. its the best way to stay relevant in combat because while it seems enticing to get that Divine + Arcane spell in 1 go ability for throwing 2 big debuff/control/blast abilities at once (as well as some sort of quickened spell in there).

Now if you go with the Edlritch Scion Magus + Oracle you'll basically be a weaker magus. But humorously enough be very close to the "Red Mage" feel that many try to achieve with this. Not to mention slightly better armor.

You'll never be optimal with this but as long as you go with one of these and are in a group who isn't crazy minmaxers you'll probably survive.

Make yourself a favor and don't

I tried in in game it's not fun. You get a lot of abilities that does not scale that well, your other party member will have to drag you along for quite a few level until you start shining. You want more spells on your spell list? There is an actual prestige class for that: PATHFINDER SAVANT

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/arcane-sav ant

Do it you will thank me later.

Never saw this one before. Definitally nice if you're only going for 6 spells though having to cast them at 1 level higher limits its somewhat. That said you won't have to give up 9th level spells from your core class which is always a plus.

Snake Style.

Doesn't matter too much, master of many styles monk is a good option though as you can skip Snake Sidewind.

Snake Stye: need acrobatics 1, sense motive 3: can immediate action use sense motive as your AC vs an attack. Not the point of this but neat.

Snake Fang: Requires snake style, snake sidewind(skippable if you monk archetype this), combat reflexes, Acrobatcis 6, sense motive 9. If the target misses you you can make a melee AoO against them, if you hit you may make another immediate action attack as well.

It only works with unarmed strikes though but the better your AC the more AoO you can make with your unarmed strike.

This can be done easily with a single monk level dip.

Now on top of this you can do the following:

Option 1:
Go bloodrager, choose the aberrant bloodline.
Level 4 you get +5ft to your natural reach.
Enlarge person as a bonus spell at 7

black blood can offer some neat other bonuses while still giving you the +5ft to your natural reach, but no enlarge person bonus spell, but its on the bloodrager's spell list so no big deal.
Black blood at 12 can also get you "retributive spray" which basically means anything that manages to hit you takes with Peircing/Slashing within 10ft takes 1d8 +additional based on level cold damage (reflex for half)

Option 2:
Be a fighter and stack your AC as much as physically possible. The more they miss the more you can attack.

Finally, works with either option:
Get a polearm or whip (get improved whip master if you go whip as its natural reach +5).

Monks don't have "offhand" attacks and don't concern themselves with having their hands full (as they can do kicks and stuff).

So you can either use a 2h reach weapon for more damage or use a whip and threaten your natural reach +5.

Going bloodrager route will get you a natural reach of 10.
Add whip or polearm and you'll threaten out to 15.

Get the ability of "Enlarge person" to make it 15 natural 20 out. Add combat patrol for more fun.

So now with this you're basically unapproachable and your DM will rain Arrows and Fireball-y death upon you.

But melee who make it through AoO hell will be met with more AoO as you punch them in the face as you laugh at their misses. And black blood punishes anything that does hit you.