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According to the Baruk-Azhik domain description in RoE, BA has 3 trade routes: 1 to Sielwode, 1 to Ruorven in Coeranys, and 1 to Bevaldruor, the capital in Mhoried. The routes to Coeranys and Mhoried are very important features for our campaign.
So if the NPC Guilders all have a couple of trade routes each, I think we need to know ASAP:
Traditionally in Birthright, landed regents would maintain and control the highways through their lands - partly as a means of demanding some share of trade route profits, and most especially for military use in times of war (most armies move way faster on highways, especially though rougher terrain, but only so long as the road owner is controller or ally of the army's regent). Generally the tribute should at least cover road maintenance costs, and in my experience most regents would want a little net profit beyond that (but sometimes, with lower-value routes, it is enough to pay for the roads).
Sielwode
Month 1:
Administrate Check DC 15: failed (to save 1 GB on the action)
Are we starting in Spring 551 MR / 1524 HC?
FWIW My experience running mage regents as a PC and NPC is that everything takes more time as a source regent than other types, and your realm grows so much more slowly - and it can be tedious and frustrating, especially when other PCs are growing by multiples while you plod along. It's not just lack of realm actions. Each ley line you build is another month.
Suggestion: I made realm spell research take 1 month per 3 levels or fraction thereof.
Would that be doable? And there is the time needed to do any other domain action (like Diplomacy), adventure, or other character action. Mages seem to need ten times the time other regents do to become significant. And while that may sound cool or reasonable from a storybook perspective (which always assumes all mages live longer than normal people...which isn't actually true in D&D) - it's really not very fun or balanced in an actual domain game.
Elton:
1. 2e version: Simply allow wizards to do realm actions with sources within the same realm as per the original rules. For a BRCS game, only sources would be allowed to bypass the need for a court, not other holding types. 2. As 2e, but any additional sources being ruled must be connected by ley lines to every other source being affected by the realm action. This is a pretty difficult requirement, and would make realm actions with sources quite rare except in very heavily networked source domains. 3. Allow each blooded mage Lieutenant of the source regent to count as a virtual Court Action for the purposes of source realm actions in a single realm. Thus it is arcane protoges rather than administrative bureaucracies that extend a mage regent's reach and control over their source domain. This was the "Arcane Court" idea I had posted a couple pages back.
So to the first part, yes: low-level stuff is easier to rule up than high-level stuff. But early on you might have more potentially hostile regents in your domain who might oppose your actions, too - and that can make things way harder than just a straight roll as they spend resources, use their holding levels to oppose you or support other regents in the provinces you are in, or run domain actions against you. RP: Collection is based on the higher of either your Domain Power (the total RP you can potentially collect based on your total levels of provinces + holdings from which your class can collect) or your Bloodline Score. So if you are playing a Cleric, that would be full RP collected from Land and Temple levels + 1/2 RP from Law holdings. (Example Only) So if you as a Cleric Regent of Elinie have 30 levels of Provinces, 18 levels of Law, and 18 levels of Temples, your domain power os (30+9+18) = 57, which means you can potentially collect 57 RP per season if your bloodline score is high enough to take advantage of it. If you have a bloodline score of 36, then you'll only collect 36 RP per season (3 months) until you can raise your bloodline score through saving up enough RP and spend 37 RP to raise it by one (up to a maximum of twice per year). You can store RP up to twice your Bloodline Score. PS - Also keep in mind that Elton has added 2e-style RP costs back into Domain Actions. So assume that every Domain Action has a base cost of at least 1 RP - or 1 RP per holding target level of the action when Ruling or Contesting holdings.
As Elton mentioned, most domain actions are DC 10 to 20.
The BRCS added a small extra bonus for a regent or their Lt.'s skill when they personally oversee the action (+1 per 5 ranks in the key skill in the BRCS, which we are changing to +1 per +10 total bonus for Pathfinder...which may actually work out pretty similarly in the longer game, with potential to be much higher in Pathfinder at the higher levels when we start being able to make magic items that enhance both skills and ability scores - something that had no effect in the BRCS or in 2e despite the apparent logic that it ought to matter...). So in this system the domain actions are actually a little easier to succeed at in most cases than in the original domain game. And as I understand the rules, when you do a Realm Action where you target multiple holdings with one domain action, this bonus can be applied to each action roll in the action, multiplying your RP/GB savings from your expertise. 2nd: There are also Feats that improve a regent's domain action bonuses in the BRCS that will translate to Pathfinder pretty readily, and may even be slightly better at higher levels (like feats where one or two +2 skill bonuses can each become a +4 skill bonus at 10 ranks in that skill). Some prime examples of feats boosting domain actions from BRCS Chapter 1:
Plus Skill Focus in key domain skills can be taken (+3 skill. +6 at 10 ranks), and several other BRCS feats grant bonuses to key regent skills. Think of every bonus +1 you get from skills and feats as 1 RP or GB you do not have to spend on each domain action (times the number of target holdings in Realm Actions) where the bonus applies. Considered in this light I hope you can understand why being a little more conservative with the skill bonuses is a wise decision for game balance. Also consider that Elton is wanting to run a long campaign spanning many levels of character progression, so the rules should strive to be balanced for 20 levels of play - not just the first 5 or so. Try to consider how the bonuses will look through that entire progression when you are judging game balance. And finally remember: whatever rules apply to you apply to all the NPC regents too!
Regency (RP) collection is based on class as Elton posted earlier, which are derived from the orignal 2e rules for RP collection). We're ignoring the BRCS rules for RP collection, so no need to worry about skill conversion in that regard.4) I'm finding these rules confusing. As an example, under the diplomacy action they talk about setting the DC. But what is actually rolled? A diplomacy check? Using who's skill if a lieutenant or unnamed courtier does the talking? The Diplomacy action is one of the most variable DC actions in the rules (Espionage is the other one) - because it covers so many possible outcomes. There is a list of guidelines for DCs based on desired outcome of the action. I'll break the paragraph into separate lines by DC:
These DCs are meant to emulate versions of the Diplomacy skill check in 3.5e, but on a domain scale (similar to domain attitudes, which also emulate NPC Attitudes described in the 3.5e DMG). The domain action check for a Diplomacy action is similar to all domain actions: it is a D20 roll vs the DC, with modifiers found in the action description. They are:
The one unclear thing to me is where this action should take place (usually it's either hosted at your own court or at the target's court), which may affect what other regents are present during the negotiations and allowed to spend GB to influence the outcome. P.S. - The 3.5e BRCS is incomplete. Chapters 1-5 are pretty much done, Ch 6 was worked on and never finished, and chapters 7-9 are the same as the 3.0 version as far as I know. I have those (Ch 7-9) as individual chapters if you want them, but it's just as easy to use a copy of the 3.0 BRCS doc and look those chapters up if you are interested.
Could you please point to exactly the version that we will be using (the version Osprey pointed at doesn't seem to be identical to the version on birthright.net. birthright.net also seems incomplete).Alright Elton, let us know what rules you want to use.The BRCS 3.x, with all of it's faults, is the better system to use. Sorry about that, Paul...I probably had older versions on my desktop which may have been further edited after I got mine, and couldn't get onto BR.net at the time I posted on Discord to download updated versions. I am going to update my pinned post on Discord now so the most recent copy is on there.
PART 4
This is one of the main places where Pathfinder conversion is necessary. I have been discussing options and my own solutions with Elton, which I'll share here. I really like the idea that a regent with the right skills can increase the success chance of a domain action with something more than just bloodline power. I mean competent leadership should matter, right?Furthermore, in the BRCS an invested Lieutenant can also step in and lead one Domain Action per season in place of the regent - and this allows a regent with good specialist Lts. to really benefit from *their* skills as well, and not just for resolving a random event or adventuring as in 2e. I also like the idea that ALL the regent's skill bonus in the Key Skill matters - not just their raw experience (ranks), but also their talent (ability score modifier), specialties (feats), and magical enhancement that boost the skill. As a 3.5 and Pathfinder DM I used to make it +1 domain action bonus per +5 skill bonus in the Key Skill, but playtest experience proved that at high levels this really got too powerful and made too many instances where no RP was needed for automatic success (or a 2+ on a D20 in my game - I always had a roll of 1 fail for a domain action), and with Realm Actions these bonuses get repeated across multiple target holdings and things get broken. Now, if I were to start another Pathfinder game, I'd make the bonus +1 per +10 bonus in the key skill. As harsh as this may sound at low levels, it's really not...later on at higher levels skills can reach +30 or better by 10th level, and +50 or 60 by 20th level. Plus there are Feats that can give a few more plusses to domain actions, too, which needs to be accounted for. So that's how I'd fix/convert it. Also: I'd make Spellcraft the Key Action for Create/Rule/Contest Source Holdings, not Administrate. Re. RP collection by skill ranks, well that's already been discarded in favor of class-based RP collection in this game, and that's fine by me. I do the same in my games.
This actually makes better sense to me than 2e canon. Why would non-mage regents have any ability to manipulate mebhaighal?
More rolls for Attitude, less rolls for income. Still plenty of rolls to be made each season, and lots of math. :D Particularly notable here is how Province levels not only generate a base income of 1 GB per level, but can generate even more by raising taxes. Each province can earn up to 50% of its level, rounded down, from additional taxes, but with a commensurate -1 per extra tax GB to its seasonal attitude check. Nobody likes extra taxes, but they are better tolerated from a strong ruler who has attitude bonuses to compensate. So a level 6/0 province with a tax rate of +3 earns 9 GB a season, and incurs a -3 penalty to attitude checks each season. Provinces are also the one type of "holding" that all classes can get full RP from. So while BRCS provinces may be less politically powerful than in 2e, they are powerful sources of RP and GB income - and this is their main function.
Always pay close attention to your NET GB INCOME. That means Gross Income minus Asset Maintenance.All domains can be financially balanced, especially when you factor in Tribute from vassals and allies for the more expensive realms. Army Note: Units actually only cost 1/2 the maintenance of their 2e equivalents, thought their muster costs remain the same. So armies are way cheaper to support than before!
This was another broken factor of the 2e domain system. In 2e a regent with a lot of RP and GB could rule 3 different provinces a season and use RP to guarantee success! Populations just multiplied overnight, and within a few years every realm in Anuire could double in province levels if no one sacked their provinces (which doesn't happen a lot in my experience unless it's the Gorgon or Spider or Rhuobhe or somesuch; conquerors tend to want to annex occupied provinces, rather than just pillage and leave). BRCS: Administrate IS the Key Skill for the action, so using that system the regent's skill could give a bonus. Bonuses from feats like Regent Focus: Rule Province (+4) and Master Administrator (+2) are extremely valuable for landed regents in this system, as would be anything boosting the Administrate skill. While low level regents are really hoping to get lucky raising a province to higher levels, more experienced rulers can actually have pretty good odds. And from a world balance perspective it is a very good thing that provinces are not constantly going up in level all over the map. Where are all those new loyal subjects coming from? DM Note: I always reasoned that when PC Realms start growing rapidly in power, their neighbors tend to start competing with them to keep up and not feel threatened. So if you (a PC Landed Regent) start ruling up your provinces and holdings, expect your (competent) neighbors and rivals to start doing the same in their realms!
Whaddya mean no critical failures?!? Where's the fun in that? :D In my world: Rule Province fumble? -1 level! Same with holdings!
Critical successes are not just rolls of 20 - the natural 20 must be confirmed with a normal success, just like critical hits in combat.
A Fumbles is a natural 1 followed by a roll that is a normal failure.
I use this system for combat, skill checks, and domain actions in my games. Great fun and dramatic punctuations in the action!
If synergies are used, I suggest making them harder to get and actually keep them at 5 ranks for a +2 skill synergy. 3.5e saw a whole lot of 2nd level/5 rank skills just for synergy bonuses. This method would make it a lot harder to abuse them at lower levels, and at higher levels a +2 skill bonus is not quite as huge a deal. I also like the idea that they scale the same as skill bonuses from feats, where a synergy would grant +4 at 10 ranks as well.But I might be getting carried away with my love of the concept and wanting it to scale with levels. You decide! :D
PART 3
OK here I feel I need to state what almost every 2e BR DM has said as well: Trade Routes are the most broken, overpowered mechanic in the the 2e Domain system. They generate so much extra gold plus equal RP for Rogue regents who build them, and then they went and said seaport provinces could have DOUBLE the number of trade routes other provinces could have, just to go ahead and break the income system really damn hard! In 2e games I've played (and I've played a Guilder reaping all these rewards), players who know this inevitably set forth to build every single trade route they possibly can as soon as possible (which is OK, but proves how they are so much greater in value than any other option in the domain game). Landed Guild Regents with Trade Routes get stupid rich real fast, and will tend to take over the world pretty fast if they want to - at least as long as armies matter more than magic. Another unrealistic factor of 2e Trade Routes was that you could build a trade route of *any* value by owning only a single level 0 guild in the originating province. If it was a level 6 guild instead, good for you...no effect on the trade route derived from it. Only province levels mattered. BRCS: Guilds and guild levels and guild monopolies (where guild level = province level) REALLY matter now. Moreover, guilders control the trade routes on both ends, so you end up negotiating with foreign guilders to set up trade routes for mutual benefit, instead of negotiating directly with landed regents and ignoring guilds in the target province altogether as in the old system. Of course Trade Routes are very easy to contest or raid with military forces, so landed regents still will want and deserve a cut of the profits, and a realistic trade route between 2 realms may often involve 2 guild regents + 2 landed regents, or even more if other realms are crossed. Everybody wants a cut! But those cuts are precisely what guarantees the stability of the route, and makes the guilders indispensable to the landed regents for extra income. Another example of how the BRCS system fosters more cooperation and diplomacy as a necessary tool for prosperity and stability. Although it also makes establishing your guilds on both ends of a trade route a very lucrative and worthy endeavor for a guilder!
It's always tricky deciding how to handle Attitude and Loyalty for Holding regents. The best way is really the most detailed and high maintenance in my opinion: province by province with each holding you own, though I think one attitude rating per province is fine regardless of how many types of holdings you control there. More holdings just add to the bonuses possible, if they're high-enough level. If the DM doesn't like this level of detail, one Attitude check/rating per Realm is OK (and is what I use for NPC regents if I roll for them). Provinces without holdings would simply not get bonuses or penalties for other holding types in the domain. Only the landed regent's reputation and factors would affect the seasonal attitude check (recent deeds etc). What happens when reestablishing holdings in previously lost provinces? Interesting case, I'm not sure...but this is the kind of fairly rare nuance where a DM just makes a call and keeps the game moving. Indifferent would be the (re)starting default unless there's reason to be otherwise, I would say. How does attitude affect source holders? That's up to the DM. You could rule that they are the same as other holding regents, because the locals could still make life difficult for a source regent when they try to do things like transport or buy materials for their realm spells and domain actions, or work undisturbed in the forest while angry peasants jeer and fling mud and manure at the wizard trying to concentrate on month-long rituals...or straight up raise a mob and try to lynch them! Table 5-8: It works almost identically to the Attitude tables in the 3.5e DMG. It's basically a D20 check with results for multiple DCs.
Part 2
I don't mind Castles and Fortified Holdings costing more to maintain in 2e, but I think the BIG question is what exact value do they have for the cost aside from a player liking the idea? Yes they can make a siege take a long time as in 2e, but the most important question is how much they affect Assaults to reduce them more quickly. This becomes a question then of what Battlesystem is in use, and how do castles factor into that? I can vouch for the power of high level castles making defending units very hard to kill in the BRCS battle system, where the castle level is added to a defending unit's defense (AC) rating. I once saw 4 defending units kill a ridiculous number of attacking skeleton and infernal legions (the 2 strongest types of summoned units in the game) attacking a level 6 castle in Mhoried. They did eventually fall, but their heroic defense gutted the Sword Mage's supposedly unbeatable army of darkness, and left few survivors to gloat over their pyrrhic victory! In general, higher maintenance lends itself to more carefully choosing Fortified provinces and holdings, as opposed to having large numbers of castles everywhere in your realm. Not necessarily a bad thing? Finally, my BRCS games tend to require that regents with lots of fortifications and big armies need big incomes. So they had better have either lots of holdings (that aren't all fortified) and/or tribute from vassals and allies supporting all those expensive military assets.
1st let me say: I love the Court and Court Action system in the BRCS! Courts are now WAY more bang for their buck, being the most expensive single asset most regents have to pay for each season. I was so glad to see them do more than give a small Diplomacy bonus on the seasons you happen to use that action (while costing a fortune) - or have the resulting silliness of court levels varying wildly in a realm from one season to the next depending on when you plan to do Diplomacy actions, which made no sense to me. Courts and reliable courtiers should take time and effort to build up, and the resulting benefits should be commensurate. Big courts are most useful for RICH regents who have lots of GB to spend on lots of Court Actions (Decrees, Building, Mustering, and Realm Actions targeting multiple provinces are the main uses).So, let me address the main concern about expected court size: NO WORRIES! It's just a guideline that helps players have a goal for what is "Reasonable" or "normal" in the world, and is in no way an actual requirement. How much that expectation actually affects diplomacy and attitude of subjects and other folks is entirely subjective and a DM call, if at all. It may be most noticeable in roleplaying flavor (big courts are impressive, small courts are not). Without looking it up, I believe Base Reputation is supposed to give a bonus to Diplomacy and other social skill checks made by courtiers in the Court setting or possibly envoys from that court in foreign lands? For the sake of time I'll let someone else dig for the exact details on that. I know it did not provide a bonus directly to domain actions. So it's a very secondary feature of the courts in my own games compared to number of court actions. Game Note: Most regents with larger courts build Palaces to expand their courts to higher levels. You can add Palace levels to your base Court level to measure your total Court Level, up to double the base court level at maximum efficiency. Palaces cost 6 GB a level to build, but only 1/2 GB per level to maintain - so big long-term savings on court costs. Arcane Courts: For my game I made a house rule about these for 3.5 and PF. I always hated how wizards got screwed on GB income, and needing a regular court to perform realm actions seemed dumb, because no amount of courtiers is going to be a big influence on how many sources a wizard could affect at one time. And preventing wizards from performing realm actions seems terribly unfair as well when they already seem to need more time and domain actions for their work than any other regent. So my system was to allow a Source Regent to use each blooded mage Lieutenant they had invested to act as a Court Action when manipulating sources with a Realm Action, making blooded Apprentice/Lts. a primary commodity for powerful source regents, and having a small cadre of them the ultimate in rapid expansion and contest power for sources. It's not the simplest or easiest thing to build, but I really liked the realism and results of the system, and still use it in my Pathfinder domain game today.
Per Joker's request, here are a few responses to some of Tripp's observations:
I don't know why they lowered the desert and tundra max levels from 2e. But if a DM feels any of these level maximums are not good, this is a very easy thing to change.Don't forget when evaluating that maximum levels go up by +1 for a major river border and +2 for coastal provinces. Any race that has underground settlements I'm not really sure normal terrain rules should apply at all! Dwarves and orogs most notably - I think goblins are still at least partly surface-based in Cerilia. There has been a lot of discussion in the forums in the past about underground province levels, but it really would require a whole second map with separate settlements with their own rules for max levels, probably based on the sophistication of their mining and subterranean building skills.
It would be good to have rules for this action, it shouldn't be too hard. I don;t really agree that Mieres needs to create any new provinces to thrive (I had a player turn Mieres into the capital of an Adurian Empire without making new provinces until maybe much, much later in the game. Undead hordes roaming the vast Deismaar Wastes have a lot to do with why Mieres has the borders it does.) Albiele and Caelcorwynn Isles are the best immediate candidates near Anuire for making new provinces, and possibly further west or south along the Adurian Coast.
Urban provinces are really problematic. I think the idea that they are dependent on agrarian trade routes absolutely makes sense to me, but it gets to be a lot of rules just for this special case scenario. I personally went a different route in my game and allowed certain kinds of Wondrous Structures to be built up and potentially raise province levels above their normal maximums. The main way was building a University Wondrous Structure with different kinds of Land Management (ex: Advanced Agriculture for open provinces), Urban Planning, and Industrial research and engineering specialties as it leveled up. Plus I ruled that any Wonder hitting the province's current maximum level could add +1 to that province's maximum level. The easiest thing for a more vanilla game is to just not have any urban provinces besides the Imperial City of Anuire, and just let it be that one special case that nobody knows how to duplicate yet.
Here I feel like the BRCS use of Law holdings replacing Land holdings in function both makes sense and is a big improvement over the 2e rules. In 2e Law holdings had limited function: you got them to 1/2 the province level so you could max out your Province taxes, and used them to squeeze any guilds or temples you didn't like with seizures. Meanwhile Landed regents had immense power without really having to do anything other than inherit land holdings and hang onto them. They could use the full province level to support or oppose any other regent doing almost anything in their province, and with higher level provinces this got extremely one-sided and unbalanced. In the BRCS, Law holdings do exactly what you'd expect: Make the Rules!
As for hostile Law holdings in your lands: They should be big problems! What was the point of them in 2e? How much could they really do in the old system? Not much, in my experience. As a DM I have used the BRCS system for many years, and I totally prefer the way Law holdings are used there compared to the 2e original. As for low starting Law holdings...this isn't at all an insurmountable problem for most regents. It just creates an early goal for how you should change your realm to strengthen your rule! Some realms are more challenging than others in this regard, and I think that is just fine. If everyone started with a perfectly strong realm, I think the domain game would just be more boring and less challenging.
In my experience, these limits were usually in line with the numbers you see in Ruins of Empire and didn't change the game too much from the 2e setting. Finally, you can have any number of level 0 holdings in a province, and the utility of these is bigger than is at first apparent: regular intelligence is gained on the province, and the owner can spend RP to support or oppose many actions there. And having a reason to not rule every province up higher is a great thing! Just ask any wizard. ;)
EDIT: I meant I posted the Chapter 5 Domain Rules on the Discord server.
So these are specific changes from the 2e Rulebook, which I think you are referencing, to the BRCS rules - where Law holdings largely replace the role that Province levels played in a lot of 2e actions in supporting or opposing other holding actions. When you read the BRCS Chapter 5 (Domains), you will find under each individual domain action exactly how other holdings might support or oppose actions with their levels. AND of course any regent with a holding a province can typically support or oppose actions there with Regency Points (RP) as well. I posted a PDF cop of the Ch6 DOmain rules on our Discord chat, in case you can't get to the website to download for yourself.
For all Law Regents:
This is your primary bargaining power with Guild and Temple regents. With nothing more than a decree, you can decide to always support certain guild/temple domain actions in your realm, always oppose them, or remain neutral and not interfere. Support means adding your law levels as a bonus to their domain actions when allowed, and opposing means the opposite, subtracting your Law levels from their D20 rolls for many types of domain actions. Law holdings also incur a penalty on Espionage actions in a province, unless the law regent intentionally prevents that.
FYI I believe in Birthright, elves forge mithral and dwarves forge adamantine (which they call moraskorr). So mithral armor would probably be elven-made armor. I can imagine a number of suits of mithral armor and weapons have been captured by humans from the battlefield over the years. Re. your realm: More provinces do make for larger borders, which of course you always want to be secure through diplomacy or military assets, but otherwise shouldn't overwhelm you. 1. Best advice for new landed rulers is to get your Law levels up to at least half your Province level in each province so you have better loyalty and more ability to levy extra taxes there should you so choose. 2. Ruling low level provinces is always easier than high level provinces, but high level provinces have better GB income potential from the guilds there, because trade routes can be more valuable if the guilds are higher level. 3. Try to use Diplomacy to get some tribute from any trade routes that start/end in your lands. 1 GB per trade route is a fairly typical amount to ask for in my experience. Just remember that trade routes into foreign lands will also mean the other landed regent will want similar tribute as well. Make sure the guilder gets something for themselves in the end, too, or it won't be worth doing. 4. I have found that Diplomacy with the guilds and temples in your lands that you want to support is wise. Arranging for stable, regular GB tribute is preferable to using your Law holdings for seizures (which is essentially levying seasonal tolls, tariffs, and special taxes on targeted guilds and temples in provinces where you have Law holdings. Your seizures are taken out of their base income in those provinces.). When a guild or temple regent agrees to certain tributes, they tend to be less resentful, and the regular tribute is a predictable expense as well, which is easier to manage than random losses each season. 5. ALWAYS keep an eye on your Treasury. It's very easy to let your expenses mount up close to your income, and then you don't have any spending money left to grow and build things. Worse, when you go to war all of your garrisoned troops become active and cost double their garrisoned maintenance. You can lose money very quickly during big wars.
Elf humor?Usually on its southern border. I'm practicing Dwarf humor - in preparation for negotiations.
Usually on its southern border.
To answer one of your earlier questions, Elton had said he wanted a cooperative (not-PvP) game. I was fully expecting that we -the eastern realms (Sielwode, Elinie, Coeranys and Baruk-Azhik) - would make an early alliance block, just as the southern regents will probably make an early alliance block as well. Then I was imagining those 2 blocks would also become (more distant) allied groups, likely by having common enemies between us: Osoerde and Ghoere. Also: MHORIED (be they PC- or NPC-run) would be an excellent additional ally for the NE group (see below re. common enemies). That's how I picture things developing in a rough-picture prediction. Of course differing races, histories, and personal and realm alignments will make cooperation difficult at times...that's part of the role-playing challenge and flavor as I see it! Everything doesn't have to be perfectly aligned from day 1, but I think mutual enemies will always make for great unifiers of diverse groups. In the case of Elinie and the Sielwode, the absolutely biggest common enemy is Markazor and the Gorgon! The Gorgon's armies have ravaged Elinie and Mhoried more than any other realms in Anuire. They definitely could use more military allies to deal with the inevitable next invasion.
Critz, I was discussing with Elton the other day the possibility for developing arcane realm spells based on your Wood Elementalist spells (most of which are normally druid spells). Most notable would be your 4th level spell Plant Growth turned into a realm spell. Perhaps as a 4th level realm spell it could fast-grow a forest in an entire province over the course of a month or season. Elton seemed to like the idea, in a general sense (details to be ironed out at a future date). Something to aim for. ;)
Hmmm, belay my last. With where everyone else is, I may be going back to Baruk-Azhik, and be the Dwarf Overthane.I think if you do that having a source regent would be fun Perhaps you could focus on fostering the health of the forested mountain surface world which the dwarves might often ignore?
Critzible Here I am willing to work with whoever. She just wants to help the trees I'm not trying to compete for players here...if you want to be in the south, no problem! But 1st I just wanted to say: Some folks may dislike the need to be a dependent on others for GB, but in the past I came to like the challenge of playing a pure source regent cooperating with local landed rulers. It's a unique roleplaying perspective that forces some diplomacy and cooperative, symbiotic relationships from the outset. Landed rulers who want a source regent ally must temper their desire to rule everything up, and find a compromise between landed power and source power if they want both in their realm, as well as pay some seasonal GB tribute to the source regent to support their work. 2nd: If you wanted to stay in the north, more closely tied to the Sielwode, I had been brewing a concept something like this for you: 1. You could be a Lieutenant of mine. This would allow you to use any of the Sielwode's sources once per season (so long as the magic doesn't threaten the realm, of course). You'd also get a seasonal GB stipend.
I was told by Elton at the start that the PCs were definitely supposed to be cooperative and not PvP, so that's shaped my ideas and suggestions from the outset. Geography is always going to make certain groups of allies tighter by convenience and necessity. You can lend a whole lot more military aid to your next-door neighbor than you can from a thousand miles away, and most low-level characters don't have magical travel available. PS: If you didn't know...Teleporting in Birthright is extra-dangerous, because it goes through a semi-corrupted Shadow World. Accidents can happen. At higher levels a Wind Walk spell is the safest fast travelling method if you know a good cleric. Or if you are very lucky, the great blood ability Travel could be known at any level. This is always safe from Shadow World mishaps.
I'll be playing Diarmaid mac Cullaidh ("jeer-mich mak KOOL-aye"), the young new wizard King of the Sielwode. I didn't want to do too much more description until our characters met in-game.
Humans and their rules. Sidhelien translations of this word translates back into Anuirean come out more as "excuses", "rationalizations" or "justifications." Then they go do what they wanted to do all along anyways, only now with some larger-than-life power they imagine backing their deeds and erasing their atrocities. Rules indeed... ;)
That all makes sense to me. Changing from Haelyn to Cuiraecen shouldn’t be hard at all, given that Cuiraecen is Haelyn’s son, so I’d presumably even be able to keep derivation from Anduiras. I’m open to that. I’ll note that the the CG Paladin you’re describing is basically the Tempered Champion archetype. There’s also the Vindictive Bastard archetype which, while clearly meant for a fallen paladin who’s not Good anymore, is also plenty serviceable for a CG character. Nothing in its description says you *can’t* be good. That's cool, I haven't read or memorized most of the archetypes. I tend to use the core rules for 99% of my games, because I haven't run any PF1e games with players wanting much non-core stuff other than maybe more spells as the game progresses. I see the Tempered Champion is actually more powerful the Paladin of Cuiraecen from the BRCS because they also get Warpriest Sacred Weapon damage, which gets pretty hefty at higher levels (especially on crits). Only downside is less flexibility in the bonus feats (no Greater Shield Focus or Critical fighter feats, for instance). Really darn close, though! An Anduiras bloodline is absolutely most appropriate for a Paladin of Cuiraecen, same as Haelyn. Cuiraecen is if anything *more* of the heroic champion archetype than Haelyn - focused on individual prowess vs leadership and nobility.
I’d prefer something small. I don’t want to start with a domain that’s got a dozen provinces or something. Maybe Cariele or Endier? Endier is smaller, but seems much more out of the way, where Cariele seems likely to be in the thick of things. Thoughts, anyone else? How about Coeranys? It's not tiny, but it is low development levels and nicely tucked in the NE corner of Anuire so not in the middle of all the conflict. It is a really great beginner realm. The number of provinces you rule probably matters less than the total levels of land and other holdings you would rule, and what threats lie inside and against your borders. (This was going to be the realm I ran - as a Ranger - before I was asked to take on the Sielwode. It's a really sweet spot with loads of potential for growth.) The other reason I suggest this realm is it's much closer to other PC realms than Cariele and Endier (and those little realms in strategic hotspots are actually very challenging realms to play; their small size and locations raise the difficulty level substantially). Your neighbors would be the Sielwode (PC), Elinie (PC), Osoerde (NPC), Chimaeron (NPC), and Baruk-Azhik (dwarves, friendly with guilds in most of Coeranys). Closer PC realms will really help cut down on the DM workload running NPC domains, as well as create much more natural reasons for the PC regents to be allies (it's WAY easier to provide trade and promise of military aid to a neighboring realm than to one on the far side of Anuire!). I am still not sure story-wise how we are all going to be natural allies without some DM Fiat involved (prophecy, fate, etc), nor how we would all be getting together physically very often. @Ouachitonian I also just looked and saw you are planning on playing a LG paladin. Coeranys is a CG realm in the book, which I suspect the DM is OK with either changing or allowing you to change over time in the game. But I just wanted to throw out the Birthright-specific option to play a Chaotic Good Paladin of Cuiraecen (the Stormlord, son and herald of Haelyn, god of battle, storms, and strength) as well, because it thematically fits the region and is also cool as hell.
I think it makes perfect sense that Mages are not terribly ideal as Law regents, and do not collect regency (RP) from those holdings. And I say that playing a Wizard in this game (and have played an unlanded straight source regent before, too). Land and Source is enough if your domain is big enough. Fighters have exactly the same issue of being ONLY Land and Law regents. It fits the concept well enough (and tbh even being ideal Law regents is a bit of a stretch for a dedicated warrior to also be a good magistrate, sheriff, etc...but the BR designers wanted Fighter to be a core regent archetype, given the history of medieval warrior kings and nobles). At the end of the day, any Landed Regent who wants to control their lands should invest in Law holdings whether they get RP from them or not. As we are likely to be using the 3.5e BRCS domain rules, Law holdings will still generate a base of 1/3 GB per level each season as well as extra income from seizures of other holdings' income if the law regent so chooses, and can add or subtract their level from most other holding actions in the province they are in. All great reasons to have some if you want to stay in control of your province. Finally: In my experience, most regents have just one or two holding types anyways (with landed cleric and paladin Theocrats and landed Guilders being the exception with 3 holding types), and their Bloodline Score becomes the primary limit upon their seasonal RP collections once their domains get built up a bit, rather than the types of holdings they control.
Hoping to get my Elf done tonight Hey I had some ideas for elven wizard domain alternatives to simply splitting up the Sielwode's sources between 2 regents. You could play an elven wizard outside an elven realm since source regents spend most of their time far away from civilization and are generally mysterious figures to the public. Some NPC wizard regents in the setting have race=unknown, which tells you how little anyone knows about them. And if you want to be allied with or an agent of the Sielwode working out in the human lands, that could work out very well as a premise for why we're part of the same allied group. From Ruins of Empire, other source regents in the east (from whom you could inherit/replace) include: Eastern Coast
The wizard Regien is the court mage of Mhoried, and has a few sources there, but is a fairly new regent with a tiny domain at the default start time in Ruins of Empire. The Chimaeron and Coeranys: The Three Brother Mages compete with the Chimaera (an awnshegh sorceress) for sources in these 2 regions. There are also open sources in Baruk-Azhik. In the canon lore, dwarves do not have wizards and tend to distrust arcane magic, so there are no source regents by default in Baruk-Azhik. But the mountains have some pretty rich source potential, so it's not an impossibility, especially if you convince the BA ruler that they'd do better with a wizard ally protecting their realm. Being a pure wizard regent is tricky, because sources do not generate physical wealth (GB) but growing them and casting realm spells does cost GB. So most pure source regents need landed regents to sponsor them with GB tribute in exchange for magical services and protection of the realm. This doesn't mean you *have* to be someone's court wizard, though I'm sure most rulers would prefer a source mage's undivided loyalty and service if they can get it. Southern Coast
Rogr Aglondier, the Count of Ilien, is a wizard regent who owns the single 6/0 province (and some law) of Ilien, as well as a number of sources in the Erebannien. This is a modest domain for a new wizard regent with a minor bloodline - although the Free City of Ilien is the largest city on the southern coast so it's quite the diplomatic hotspot (and could be ruled by any class character with some adjustments - such as a Cleric temple regent like the Impregnable Heart of Haelyn or Eastern Temple of Neserie).
If I may make an editing suggestion: Bards are much more a core class in 3e and beyond than they were in 2e, where they were a weird not-exactly-multiclass amalgam of rogue/fighter/mage, so it makes sense to me to allow them to be a little more capable as a regent option in my opinion, though yes this does cause a small conflict with the canon lore from BoM, which had bards being forbidden to be regents by decree of the bardic college (and Laela Flaertes of Tuornen is the only bardic regent in the core setting I know of. Not sure if the college kicked her out?). My suggestion is to allow them to gain full RP from Land and Guilds, and 1/2 RP from Law. This is similar to Rogues, but they wouldn't get RP from Trade Routes, and their lesser arcane magic wouldn't grant them Realm Spells, either, so they are still somewhat less potent as regents than other more traditional regent classes. But their social focus and broad skill lists really helps compensate for this - and there is no magic more powerful than Enchantment in politics and espionage! If you are using straight 2e domain rules, I would also give them the free Espionage action that rogues get, because a bard would probably be even better at it than a rogue, thanks to their magics.
Sorry for the slow reply, been a little busy the last few days! My character is an elven Wizard, who will be (as far as I know) inheriting Isaelie's throne as the next King of the Sielwode. I assumed this would be her collection of land, law, and source holdings she holds in Ruins of Empire, unless the DM wants them divided up differently. Elven regents are so rarely PCs that I hadn't really expected other players also wanting to play one. I've never had a pure elven PC in my own games, because they are substantially more alien and on poor terms with humans in general in Cerilia compared to other settings. FWIW I had originally wanted to play either a human ranger ruler of Coeranys, or a dwarven regent of Baruk-Azhik, and had mentioned the Sielwode as a 3rd option, and Elton asked me to take on that role, so I did. :) As for other regents in Sielwode: based on the RoE default setup, I would suggest that an elven Rogue or Ranger Guild Regent would be the most complimentary regent type to play there. Guild Regents are freaking *awesome* in Birthright, with rogues being arguably the most potent regent class in the game (lots of skills, lots of GB income, and they gain full RP from both guilds and trade routes! So it's really easy to max out RP collections while focusing on building ever-greater revenues. The tradeoff is every landed regent knows you are the money maker and expects a cut of the profits for allowing you to operate in their lands and protecting your trade routes). Temples for Elves: nahhhh
So just having one elf worship a human deity would be quite a stretch, but an allowable exception to the rule. Persuading whole populations of elves to worship them defies credibility. Having temples in elven realms would certainly be a pragmatic benefit: it's humans' divine magics, coupled with their much higher birth and maturation rates, that were a decisive factor in humans steadily pushing the elves out of their Cerilian forest homes - which once covered most of the continent. And immortal beings have very long memories. That's my feeling on the issue: I think it just breaks the setting a little too much. I expect we all want to be exceptional regents and make our marks in Cerilia's history, but I think we should respect the setting and it's unique flavor as well. It might be less of a stretch to have elves being capable of non-deific divine magic ala 3rd edition concepts (where the divine power comes from a non-deity source like nature or some other source), but it would definitely change the original 2e setting, where every cleric and paladin was required to have a patron deity, and druids were always priests of Erik. Ranger spells were somehow forgotten in these rules, and the source of that power is not explained in the canon as far as I know. And as roleplaying goes, I don't want to give away too much about my character out-of-game, as elves are extremely mysterious and rarely seen or understood by humans, especially in a friendly context. So playing an elf who is willing to be allies with humans, especially from the xenophobic Sielwode, will be quite the novelty in Anuire!
One thing to consider is that as we gain a few levels, we will be free to expand our skill lists a little wider to have at least some ranks in an appropriate array of skills. Until a few minutes ago I didn't realize that players were expecting two extra skill ranks per level in Background Skills...which I now understand is part of where this conversation is coming from. I never used the Unchained rules in my own PF games, but have just read up on Archives of Nethys. If other folks are expecting 2 background ranks per level for this game, I definitely will add that into my own character too! FWIW there are really only 3 new skills added to the PF list from the BRCS: Administrate, Lead, and Warcraft. Only army commanders would need to learn Warcraft.
Elton also separated Gather Information back out from Diplomacy (as per the 3.x skill lists). Knowledge (Engineering) is also useful for military commanders and builders - it is used for warfare checks involving sieges.
I don't disagree about most classes having far too few skill points at low levels to make good regents. 100% true. I was just explaining how Profession (Soldier) is really not a good fit for the Warcraft and Lead skills (it has nothing to do with command and organization and direction of masses of people). In my own Pathfinder Birthright campaign, using the BRCS ruleset, I eliminated the Lead skill and replaced it with Warcraft for all military applications, and Diplomacy for social applications. I liked Pathfinder reducing the total number of skills from 3.x, especially for a BR campaign. But there is no doubt that classes who have Administrate and Diplomacy as class skills tend to be better regents, and regents with more skills are generally better rulers than those with less. And while this does not make all classes equal at the skills of rulership, it does seem to be to be somewhat realistic. One solution is to really let Lieutenants handle some of the realm issues the regent is not good at. However the rules as written in 2e and the BRCS are not very good at things like having an Administrator Lt manage the treasury or assist the regent with finances.
For what it's worth, there are quite a few half-elf regents of human realms in the core Ruins of Empire setting: Brosengae, Tuornen, Endier, and Dhoesone all have half-elf regents. All 4 of those regents also run guilds, in addition to land and law (though Turonen has only 1 guild...to start. Laela Flaertes of Tuornen is poised to grow her guilds if she can push out some of the competition).
Some perspective on these skills and their differences: Warcraft is the skill an army commander uses to lead an army. It is Strategy + the mechanics of running an army on and off the battlefield. Profession (Soldier) is the job of soldiering, which is pretty different. Off the top of my head, this would include things like: marching, drilling, following orders, formation fighting and marching techniques appropriate to the type of soldier you are (infantry, archer, scout, etc), how to pack and unpack your camp gear, and how to help set up your tent (which is probably a squad activity). Basically, you learn how to do your job as part of the rank and file of a military unit. If there is any profession closest to the Warcraft skill, it would be Profession (Military Officer). Also in Birthright, Warcraft is usually coupled with the Lead skill, which is specifically tied to directing and inspiring military units or other large groups of people. It's typically used to boost Morale checks and influence the attitude of subjects (such as the Agitate domain action). Of course whatever the DM says goes, but I wanted to help explain why the BR writers created the Warcraft and Lead skills for the game, and didn't just use the Profession skill (or non-weapon proficiency in 2e).
Hey all, just popping on to say hello.
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