Fatespinner RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 |
Gary Teter Senior Software Developer |
From the FAQ:
Pathfinder will be available at your local game store, bookstores, and online at paizo.com on a monthly basis starting in August. Be sure to ask your retailer about Pathfinder to ensure that they will be stocking it for you.
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Erik Mona Chief Creative Officer, Publisher |
Russ Taylor Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6 |
If you have an idea of how to give people who buy Pathfinder in the store a free copy of the PDF that doesn't involve onerous double-checking or just giving PDFs away to everyone for free, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.
Well, for text books, you would print stickers with activation codes, and stick one sticker in every book. The activation code is used online to enable downloading the PDF.
This is essentially how we handle online content activation for the courseware product that I maintain.
TerraNova RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
That would be feasible only by shrink-wrapping each module. Otherwise, you could be pretty sure someone with a pen and more guts than conscience would probably go to the FLGS, write all the activation codes down, and post them on the internet... which would leave Paizo the options to either accept each code several hundred times (un-smart move), or to fall back on the "onerous double checking" for the second redemption.
Shrink-wrapping is a bad idea as well, before you ask. I browse much more than i buy, and most of the other customers in "my" store do so as well. It just is part of the experience, and i would not buy shrink-wrapped products. I don't like "buying the cat in the bag".
mwbeeler |
If you have an idea of how to give people who buy Pathfinder in the store a free copy of the PDF that doesn't involve onerous double-checking or just giving PDFs away to everyone for free, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.
Only thing I can come up with atm:
People who want .pdf's remove the UPC from their copy of Pathfinder, and mail it in with the original receipt (which will encourage brick and mortar over Ebay) in exchange for a personalized pdf available in the "my downloads" section of their account.
Advantage: Upsell - > Big orange star stickers that says "Purchase this issue and get a FREE companion .pdf online!"*
Original UPC + Receipt + Account linking limits dissemination of materials to unqualified consumers.
Disadvantage: Product defacement.
Additional Paizo personnel required to process rebate (sounds like a good job for an intern).
Laeknir |
That would be feasible only by shrink-wrapping each module. Otherwise, you could be pretty sure someone with a pen and more guts than conscience would probably go to the FLGS, write all the activation codes down, and post them on the internet... which would leave Paizo the options to either accept each code several hundred times (un-smart move), or to fall back on the "onerous double checking" for the second redemption.
Put in a single-page insert rather than a sticker, inside the issue. Then shrink wrap it.
If you don't like the shrink-wrapping deal, or the cost of an insert, then perhaps provide a list of codes along with each shipment (if a store gets 50 copies, they get 50 activation codes). Put the work of handing out codes to the seller. Print the lists on cheap paper sheets with tear-off strips for each code, which the retailer can tear off and give to their buyers (you wouldn't even need to perforate these, just put in light cutting lines). Encourages the seller to get excited about the new product. If people lose their "code" with the purchase, or don't get one, they should go back and contact their retail seller.
This method also encourages people to visit your website, enter their contact info, and maybe even become online buyers of other Paizo stuff - or general items through the Paizo store.
These might cost a little more, or be a bit more time, but you're launching a new product and it never hurts to get contact info (and perhaps direct online customers as part of the deal).
If none of those sound feasible, make everyone pay for PDFs after an "initial charter subscription" (or 1st subscription, or whatever) is complete. I just wouldn't make it seem like the people who are paying retail end up getting less for their money.
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Shrinkwrapping is not an option, as it deters sales. Similarly, relying on retailers to do additional work is also not going to happen. Sure, there are some stores that could handle it, but there are many that couldn't or wouldn't.
And this isn't just about paizo.com sales versus retail sales, either. People who purchase individual issues through paizo.com don't get a free PDF either. The point is, people who have subscribed have made a commitment to us, and we're rewarding that with the free PDF.
Further, keep in mind that subscribers pay shipping on their copies, and that shipping charge brings the total subscriber cost pretty close to the retail price. For most people, the PDF is the only real incentive, because the discount is a wash with shipping.
This isn't about people who pay retail getting less; this is about people who make an ongoing commitment to us getting more. It's how the business of subscriptions works.
Laeknir |
Further, keep in mind that subscribers pay shipping on their copies, and that shipping charge brings the total subscriber cost pretty close to the retail price. For most people, the PDF is the only real incentive, because the discount is a wash with shipping.
Not really, unless you're shipping really far away.
Subscription:
13.99 + 4.00 usps shipping
= 17.99
Retail:
19.99 + 1.20 tax (6% rounded)
= 21.20
Looks like a $3 per month difference to me, where retail pays more. Not exactly a "wash".
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Vic Wertz wrote:Further, keep in mind that subscribers pay shipping on their copies, and that shipping charge brings the total subscriber cost pretty close to the retail price. For most people, the PDF is the only real incentive, because the discount is a wash with shipping.Not really, unless you're shipping really far away.
Subscription:
13.99 + 4.00 usps shipping
= 17.99Retail:
19.99 + 1.20 tax (6% rounded)
= 21.20Looks like a $3 per month difference to me, where retail pays more. Not exactly a "wash".
I would hope that if you're willing to make a commitment to your retailer to pick up a copy every month, he'd be willing to offer you a discount. But again, this isn't about people who buy at retail getting less; it's about rewarding people who make a commitment to us and to the product.
Phil Lacefield Jr. Contributor |
Went to my local gaming store here in Humboldt, the owner (nicest guy ever) hadn't heard of Pathfinder. He logged onto the Paizo site while I was standing there (this was some time ago) and almost did a jig when he read about it. Yes, my local store will carry it for me :)
Please drop me an email, phil@paizo.com, and let me know the store specifics (including this fine fellow's name.) I'll send him a box of Paizo lovin' goodness. Also point out to him - and this goes for ALL of you who speak to your FLGS owners - that the first three volumes of PATHFINDER are completely returnable through distribution. While this may not sound like a big deal to a customer, it IS a big deal to a store owner contemplating taking a big risk on an unknown product line. This way, we're helping them make a bigger deal about PATHFINDER by eliminating the risk - if it doesn't sell for them, for whatever reason, we will take them back. This almost NEVER happens in the game business. But we're special like that :-)
Phil Lacefield Jr. Contributor |
Subscription:
13.99 + 4.00 usps shipping
= 17.99
Please also keep in mind that the USPS rates got completely jacked around within days of our announcement of PATHFINDER, so there's no guarantee that potage won't go up. Sales taxes do tend to go up, but not as much as postage rates, nor as frequently :-)
Fatespinner RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 |
Phil Lacefield Jr. Contributor |
Rhothaerill |
Fatespinner wrote:If I move to Seattle, can I just come to the office and pick up my copies in person, saving shipping costs altogether?Well sure, if you like, but I warn you - you may get sucked in to our Geeky Maelstrom, never to return to your native plane...
I think that's what he wanted. ;)
Otherwise that's a pretty expensive way to save on shipping costs Fatespinner.
Joshua J. Frost |
If I move to Seattle, can I just come to the office and pick up my copies in person, saving shipping costs altogether?
This is contrary to what Phil said jokingly, but our office isn't set up for customers and we have no store front. In the interest of keeping our customer service staff sane, we don't, as a policy, allow folks to pick up their orders here at the office. We'll let everyone know if that ever changes.
Fatespinner RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 |
Fatespinner wrote:If I move to Seattle, can I just come to the office and pick up my copies in person, saving shipping costs altogether?This is contrary to what Phil said jokingly, but our office isn't set up for customers and we have no store front. In the interest of keeping our customer service staff sane, we don't, as a policy, allow folks to pick up their orders here at the office. We'll let everyone know if that ever changes.
Hehe, thanks Josh. I was asking in jest but I have seriously been considering a move to the Northwest for about a year now. Just have to find the capital to do it with... and a job to keep my family off the streets.
I've always got my eye out for Customer Service openings there in Paizo-land, you know. :)
Joshua J. Frost |
I was asking in jest but I have seriously been considering a move to the Northwest for about a year now. Just have to find the capital to do it with... and a job to keep my family off the streets.
I've always got my eye out for Customer Service openings there in Paizo-land, you know. :)
I figured as much. Jokes have a way of becoming policy and I like to avoid those sorts of things. :-)
I've been all around this country and I've never found a place I'd like to live in more than the Pac Northwest. You'd be a welcome addition to our Rain Cult, Fate.
Kelvar Silvermace |
Went to my local gaming store here in Humboldt, the owner (nicest guy ever) hadn't heard of Pathfinder. He logged onto the Paizo site while I was standing there (this was some time ago) and almost did a jig when he read about it. Yes, my local store will carry it for me :)
I try my best to support my FLGS, but sometimes I get really frustrated with them. They never seem to get their product on time and they never have any clue about coming attractions. They never even know about the stuff from that other gaming company until it has actually been released. I had to read everyone raving about D1 for a week or two before my FLGS got a copy (and only one copy so far as I could tell--purchased by yours truly). In fact, the month before D1 was released (my memory is shot--did D1 just come out in July?), I asked about it and the guy said he hadn't heard about it. He said the only Gamemastery modules are the smaller ones with the minis. I showed him the ad on the back of Dragon (?) and said, "No, there's a cool new line coming out, like the one you got on Free RPG Day." I bet they won't have Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale until the end of August. You'd think staying up on new products would be part of running a business like that. How hard is it to check Paizo.com and that other website a couple times a week? And seriously, isn't Pathfinder the biggest thing on the horizon in fantasy RPGs? Isn't it kind of sad when the customer knows more about new products than the retailer?
Sorry, I had to rant.
I'll make sure they know about Pathfinder and if they don't, I'll send the appropriate Paizonians an email.
Phil Lacefield Jr. Contributor |
Eyebite RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
Kelvar Silvermace wrote:I'll make sure they know about Pathfinder and if they don't, I'll send the appropriate Paizonians an email.Drop me the info (store name, address, phone, owner/manager/buyer name) and I'll call them myself!
Kelvar raises an interesting point. I've had much the same experience with 2 FLGSs. Would Paizo like us/mind us to be out there, stomping the pavement for them? I'm on pretty good terms with both local stores, I'm sure I could get both to carry Pathfinder/GameMastery products. (Beyond the limited amount of what they already have - though one has never heard of Paizo, even though they carry Dragon and Dungeon, while the other thought that Paizo was going out of business since Dragon and Dungeon were no more. They also thought the GameMastery line was limited to a single pack of cards and some mini-adventures.)
I just don't know what you guys are doing already to get to the individual retailers.
Fatespinner RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 |
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
I just don't know what you guys are doing already to get to the individual retailers.
Well, we've recently tasked fill with taking a more direct approach with retailers, but the sad thing is that there's a layer of distribution between us and them, so even finding out who they are can be tricky.
The truth is, one of the most effective ways of getting information to retailers is to inform our customers, and have those customers educate their retailers. So please, please, spread the word about products you're interested in to your retailers!
Fatespinner RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 |
Phil Lacefield Jr. Contributor |
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Andrew Turner |
Kelvar Silvermace wrote:I'll make sure they know about Pathfinder and if they don't, I'll send the appropriate Paizonians an email.Drop me the info (store name, address, phone, owner/manager/buyer name) and I'll call them myself!
Phil, this is vitally important for the farthest north US city (more than 10,000 people).
The Comic Shop is Fairbanks' only such store, and unless our year-old B&N is gonna carry Paizo stuff (right now they have a huge selection of WotC items, carry Dragon and had the Monster Ecologies before me...), then my FLGS is the only outlet for this entire part of the known world. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Paizo; you're my only hope.
THE COMIC SHOP
(907) 452-5780
418 3rd St # 5b
Fairbanks, AK 99703
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
GentleGiant |
Vic Wertz wrote:Further, keep in mind that subscribers pay shipping on their copies, and that shipping charge brings the total subscriber cost pretty close to the retail price. For most people, the PDF is the only real incentive, because the discount is a wash with shipping.Not really, unless you're shipping really far away.
Subscription:
13.99 + 4.00 usps shipping
= 17.99Retail:
19.99 + 1.20 tax (6% rounded)
= 21.20Looks like a $3 per month difference to me, where retail pays more. Not exactly a "wash".
*roll eyes smiley* Geez, you'd think that at least some kind of geography had crept into US schools by now. :p
There's actually a whole wide world out there "really far away," where we do have to pay more for shipping. And given the penchant of gaming shops around this part of the world to have very weird currency translations (i.e. selling products at $-price x 10 instead of the current $-value, which is around 5.5. So retail price around here isn't the equivalent of $19.99, but $36.68 instead!), I'm very happy that the subscription option is available (and I take the .pdf file as an added bonus for the extra shipping time ;)).Kelvar Silvermace |
Vic Wertz wrote:Phil Lacefield Jr. wrote:I think my brain threw up a little there.Vic Wertz wrote:Well, we've recently tasked fill with taking a more direct approach...Sheesh, he can't even call me by name...::references another thread:: So when did Phil become a verb?
El Skootro
Yep, any minute now Vic will post and tell us that Phil has been a verb since 1492 and that Columbus used to "Phil" his time by making long sea voyages or something...
Laeknir |
*roll eyes smiley* Geez, you'd think that at least some kind of geography had crept into US schools by now. :p
So let's see... you're trying to insult me as a US citizen because you thought that my "not really, unless you're shipping really far away" statement didn't include places outside the US?
**rolls eyes back at GentleGiant**
Laeknir |
GentleGiant wrote:*roll eyes smiley* Geez, you'd think that at least some kind of geography had crept into US schools by now. :p ...What is this 'geo-graphy' of which you speak?
Meh, don't listen to the ultra-snooty foreigner. The answers to the next test are right here anyway. I looked them up on the intarwebs where everything is true.
GentleGiant |
GentleGiant wrote:*roll eyes smiley* Geez, you'd think that at least some kind of geography had crept into US schools by now. :pSo let's see... you're trying to insult me as a US citizen because you thought that my "not really, unless you're shipping really far away" statement didn't include places outside the US?
**rolls eyes back at GentleGiant**
Woah, lighten up man, didn't you see the :p smiley at the end of the sentence? I wasn't really trying to insult anyone, just to point out that some people rarely take into consideration the global market that exists today.
It's a little thing called humour, where poking fun at stereotypes is quite common. :Dmwbeeler |
It's a little thing called humour, where poking fun at stereotypes is quite common. :D
DAS IST NEIN STACHENBLOCKEN!!!
-----------
Hmmm, Paizo loving goodness. Must set up all my gaming materials in an abandoned building in Detroit and masquerade as a store. Disguise +10! Oh Lord, I'm such a dork. Sigh.
On the up side, I received D0 in the mail yesterday, and the feel of the buttery smooth paper was so orgasmic (that's my adverb and you can't use it) I simply cannot wait for Pathfinder to arrive now, despite my earlier reservations.