jimthegray's page

looking good

I mean, if I'm GMing and someone told me "hey, Arcane Cascade doesn't work" my response would be "sure it does" and I hope we could leave it at that. Please don't argue with me that your stuff doesn't work.

yep the way its supposed to work is obvious and have never in real life seen any dm or player have an issue with it.

I'm more wondering how in the world arcane cascade would work without spellschools since you mentioned them! Not sure when or how we'll get the magus addressed for the remaster. I do kind of disagree about the int thing though, I'm pretty glad we don't need it. In fact I really just think we could and should get promoted to 10 hp

its simple , just tag them to damage type

Unicore wrote:

I don’t even understand how so many people were able to figure out how the spell acid splash was supposed to work enough to feel comfortable using it. How it did “splash damage” was never defined, and as soon as you hit a GM that said “it is just a damage type that triggers some weaknesses” the spell became useless.

Wait. There were GMs who did that? Seriously?

Yikes.

i dont follow? why would any gm think that?

Deceitfulelf wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Hey players, Happy Equinox.

As you’re discussing the remaster changes, kindly be aware that the remaster reflects the rules we are using going forward, but that no content is being banned at your tables. We need to publish what we need to publish for the legal health and safety of our company—and we’re adding improvements to the game along the way. But nothing we’re printing should be considered a subtraction from the game you love. All the options will still be in the System Reference Document at Archives of Nethys.

The Remaster Project is a process. We’re going to be remastering Pathfinder at least into Gen Con 2024 with Player Core 2. And that doesn’t even address the errata that our design team may consider for every rule published after the Advance Player’s Guide.

In short, a blended OGL/ORC experience should be expected for many months. And we’re never, we can’t, put an end date on what you play at your tables. We’re not coming to your home and taking away your older books. We want you to keep using everything you’ve purchased. As always, we’re trying to deliver to you the best deep character customization options in the industry.

Adventures Ahead!

No but you can take away option from Society play and that may be the most play some people are able to do. Sudden Bolt seems more of the inspiration of the new Thunderstrike. That spell could have been changed instead of Shocking Grasp. I see nothing that needed to be changed so fundamentally in shocking grasp for OGL change. You could change the damage type to anything else and keep it a melee touch attack so Magus can still have a good attack spell. Now by RAW they don't.

That last part is untrue.

Before Remaster is made PFS-legal, Shocking Grasp is still available for all Magi to use and abuse (hardly use it on my PFS Starlit Span Magus but whatever).

After Remaster, Shocking Grasp will likely not be there anymore but we do not know at all what Remastered attack spells...

nit pick but wizards at least are not as far s i can tell getting a buff here and are getting a slight nerf but maybe im missing something

Unicore wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

Of course, Horizon Thunder Sphere is only relevant as replacement to Shocking Grasp if it's published in Player Core 1 or 2. Otherwise it's the same as Shocking Grasp - an old spell from the preremaster day that your GM may or may not permit.

Well, by that logic, the magus as a whole is in a rough boat, because it is an OGL class that isn't getting an ORC remake anytime soon.

Yes, the Magus should probably just be banned if you're not willing to port over Shocking Grasp. And HTS shouldn't be available (assuming not printed in remastered) if Shocking Grasp isn't.

sarcasm? i cannot tell the magus is still great but not a fan of losing shocking grasp

Hey players, Happy Equinox.

As you’re discussing the remaster changes, kindly be aware that the remaster reflects the rules we are using going forward, but that no content is being banned at your tables. We need to publish what we need to publish for the legal health and safety of our company—and we’re adding improvements to the game along the way. But nothing we’re printing should be considered a subtraction from the game you love. All the options will still be in the System Reference Document at Archives of Nethys.

The Remaster Project is a process. We’re going to be remastering Pathfinder at least into Gen Con 2024 with Player Core 2. And that doesn’t even address the errata that our design team may consider for every rule published after the Advance Player’s Guide.

In short, a blended OGL/ORC experience should be expected for many months. And we’re never, we can’t, put an end date on what you play at your tables. We’re not coming to your home and taking away your older books. We want you to keep using everything you’ve purchased. As always, we’re trying to deliver to you the best deep character customization options in the industry.

Adventures Ahead!

thanks for info aaron

Zi Mishkal wrote:

*rolls eyes* So another round of edits and another round of nerfs for casters. Why do we just skip to the end already where all spells are three round actions and do absolutely nothing.

At least this will give my wallet some relief as the remassacred edition will not be finding a place on my bookshelf or at my table.

Hyperbolic, much?

he is exaggerating :) though im not sure anyone was complaining that wizards did to much damage so i can see the concern for some of these changes.

Were there magi that took shocking grasp instead of magic weapon at early levels?

i take both

no real worries on wizards though a nerf on cantrips but my magus is going to hate the chnage to thinder strike/shocking grasp , though my wizard will like the reflex save

Squiggit wrote:

dreamersglass wrote:

Not everyone just wants to blast things with fireball all day.

Then don't? Control is literally the superior playstyle.

It was in 1e. It's absolutely not in 2e. Blaster casters have substantially more impact on combat that control does now.

blasting not nothing but my players get a lot more of of control in general

I am a little confused as to why the old schools could not be kept and just moved to the background while introducing new school types based on actual schools.

The way it is stated that and says "but because the wizard schools already had all eight schools of magic that could ever exist in the setting (plus universalist), we could never increase the number of wizard schools or explore more interesting options beyond those preset themes."
So no one creative person at Paizo could just add "schools" based on a specific training or style of casting?

Unless the 8 schools are going away because of OGL and not lack or creativity; but if that is the case I wish they would just tell us that.

they did tell us

That feat is not good. Spend an action to add damage a round later that will never hit.

the point of it is control of a location

Just noticed this in the field test document:

QUICK-SWAP [reaction] FEAT 1
SOLDIER
Trigger You are wielding a two-handed weapon and a creature
moves adjacent to you.
You stow your current weapon and draw another two-handed
weapon. If you have multiple sets of arms, you can instead choose
a set to become active.

dont think choosing to use a deferent set of arms should be a feat, an action sure but not a feat

very cool stuff

so excited, liking what i have seen in the soldier

Xenocrat wrote:

Gisher wrote:

What does the kineticist multiclass archetype offer?

Not a lot. I think you can only get the proficiency to expert, access to a second element is a 10th or 12th level feat, and the blast doesn't scale without investing feats in it. You can add up to three dice to it for up to three feats. You don't get the free stance/blast when you gather your aura.

So it's strictly utility, I think, if you want something like a water or wood healing ability at mid to high level. There me be some good utility 1st/2nd level feats.

do the impulses from the Archetype scale normally with your character level or is there a provision there slowing down their rate?

because if it's full scaling, there are already a lot of good revealed impulses that you can get even as early as level 1-2

its good for elemental barbarian particularly one going melee , they will hit about like a giant instinct with the option for slightly lighter ranged shots

elemental barbarian with kinetics archetype will hit about as hard as giant instinct so nice :)

hey i hope this game does not suck and you like it , but i dont know anyone in real life that did not go from exited to meh as soon as they found out that this was not an actual pf2 game .
we shall see and the success of the owlcat games is because they are, you know actually rpgs :)

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

well if this turns out to just be a mobile quality arpg cash grab it could hurt the brand.

it just seems like a poor choice
most pf2 players want you know a pf2 game
and people that dont play pf2 are less likely want the game in general due to the glut of arpgs and them not caring about the brand

Honestly this is disapointing news. I was really hoping we would finally see a Tactical RPG based on the PF2E rules, the owlcat games are annoying due to the real-time and 1E rules (I don't like them) and the 2E rules are so perfect for a videogame.

Good luck to everyone involved in this project but I definitely won't be following this knowing it's an ARPG.

the owlcat ones have been turned based for a few years now

It's not the "point n click" with tactial fights like Sunday Gold that I hoped for, but it's nice that they are trying to make it a big game!

The 4 player coop is nice.
This is not my kind of game, but will still keep an eye on it. I hope they will still integrate NPC interactions and dialogs somewhere. AV was such a pleasant surprise for all the RP opportunities there was for a "dungeon". xD

BTW, a CRPG was the lowest game genre I was expecting, because of the Owlcat games. Having two different partners doing the exact same kind of games that could compete against each other would definitely sour relationships.

owlcat has not current interest in doing another pf game according to them so no conflict

felt great excitement then great let down, not gonna back maybe get in a steam sale in a few years

grade a awesome

SuperBidi wrote:

When I look at the big picture I think: How can Hasbro even win this fight? How can you handle millions of angry highly educated people who can sink dozens of hours a month in their hobby?

The TTRPG market won't even blink. Even if a bunch of publishers go bankrupt, they'll be quickly replaced by others and in a decade from now the TTRPG market will be back on tracks. Our market is fueled by passion, not money.
On top of it, they hit their clients as much as their competitors. How many of us have backed up Kickstarter campaigns, participated in a way or another to an RPG project, wiki, platform, website or whatever? There's not a strong distinction between clients and professionals in the TTRPG market. Hasbro will experience a level of anger that is unheard of. And the hits will come from everywhere.
And the TTRPG community is very reactive because if a single person around a table is vocal against Hasbro, they can easily turn an entire table away from D&D. So the disease can spread extremely quickly.
On top of it, we are used to be attacked. Remember all the "RPGs are satanic" vibe? That was not that far away (I'm not that old). We were not loved, we grew strong from it.

And most importantly: How can the company owning D&D show to everyone that they have an evil alignment and expect to live with it? Some of us are already killing giant rats in their basement. It'll take us a couple of months to raise a proper level 20 party to take the case.

I'm not worried. Hasbro should be.

That's naive. D&D collapsing can and will hurt the TTRPG market and community. It has before.

Sure, individuals can move on to other games, but a lot of people will just leave if they don't like the new D&D approach and WotC drove a lot of the outreach that grew the community. Some growth came through streaming and the like, but the curve was already there with 5E before that took off.
Popular D&D editions have always been times of growth for the hobby. Unpopular ones times of contraction. Maybe...

contrary to popular belief 4th made a ton of money, just not what hasboro wanted and then of course switching to essentials killed 4th

So who else is excited to hear that D&D is going to have a live-action show on Paramount+.

*Quickly ducks out before getting clobbered by thrown DMGs*

i mean i am , but wow the timing

Numbers advance in a linear fashion, but the result of the interacions is quadratic. A character with X attack bonus and Y damage has offense closer to "X*Y" than to "X+Y".

gotya, thanks for clarification

Megistone wrote:

jimthegray wrote:

the numbers are pretty close to linear by level unless the dm chooses it not to be

No... if they were linear, then if a level 1 Fighter can take on a single orc warrior, a level 10 Fighter can take on 10 orc warriors with the same risk. We know it's not true, as the level 10 Fighter will mow down twice that number of orcs while getting no more than a couple scratches. The power increase is not linear.

Absolutely agree with you Megistone.

Even if the characters didn't gain a single feat that would be the case. But when you factor in the huge amount of feats and choices a high level character has, then they're exponentially stronger.

hmm maybe i am misunderstanding the usage of linear here , i was meaning that the math of the characters progresses at a set level and the game assumes certain numbers at each level , this includes things like the characters having access to certain gear at certain levels

the numbers are pretty close to linear by level unless the dm chooses it not to be

The fighter is a perfect example of opt-in complexity getting rewarded. The simple build just strikes, the complex build is able to strike and apply other effects above and beyond striking.

But then you have swashbuckler that gets shut down because they couldn't move, and if they fail to move they are also punished because they attempted to move. They must also repeat the attempt after every time they do they finisher, so its a repeated chance of failure. The reward is effectively the same damage they would had gotten if they attacked 2 times as a fighter.

You have melee magus that gets shut down by needing to move, by AoO from casting, by multiple conditions that either lower to hit or lower the number of action. The only reward being "maybe if they fight the right enemy and have the right spell prepared and they hit, maybe they trigger weakness". Again a fighter doing 2 strikes deals the same damage at no risk.

You have alchemist which is one of the most complicated classes. The reward is that your allies can spend 1 action to suffer some condition and gain +1 to a stat. That requires that you spend actions making the thing, then spend actions giving it to the ally, then the ally needs to decide to use it. The item is also a straight negative if the ally already is getting an item bonus of the same size from literally any source.

All casters require that they know what creatures are being targeted, that they have the right spell for that specific creature, that they are not interrupted by said creature or something else, and the creature is still more likely than not to succeed or even critically succeed. That is if the creature is not immune in the first place. Then there is the fact that 80% of people straigth up ignore actual use case when talking about casters and jump straight to white room where the caster somehow has everything perfect, and even then they tend to fall behind to classes just doing 2 strikes.

why is your swashbuckler being shut down by not moving? tumble is not the only way to get panache, heck i have rarely used it to get it,

same with magus , what are you doing wrong where your getting shutdown often?

certainly the fighter is the top notch well fighter and can be much simpler but that's true when comparing him to all melee classes except maybe the barbarian.
sure complex character need a little more understanding of the class but its not s very high burden to make them very fun.

I have to say my players want that feeling of being great at something. They don't get that in PF2.

They missed making a high AC character that was actually hard to hit.

A fighter who invests heavily in Greatsword who hits really hard with the Greatsword.

Or a caster that when he invests in casting a particular spell or group of spells, those spells do the job.

They missed specialization meaning something as it did in PF1.

I like PF2 as a DM. I think PF2 cosmetically looks like it should look. But my players want their investment and their numbers to have a meaningful impact on the game. They felt like a guy with a 20 Dex and a 20 Strength if built well basically had the same chance to hit using the same tactics regardless of build investment.

The lack of variation in things like crit ranges, effect of power attack with a two...

hmmm

Ah - this really makes clear why PF2 Society and many conventions reliant on modules are so problematic.

The posters on this board appear to feel that in PF2 you do not really build a character rather a group builds a team so that you tweak your characters to make sure all the bases are covered

This team building is not really an option in PFS2 play since you hope that people bring a wide selection of on-level characters to allow for a balanced team rather than playing a ad hoc group of 1 fighter and 3 wizard.

The ad hoc nature of Society play is one of the reasons that I believe adding the Free Archetype rule would have been helpful in Society play. The adamant decision to never have the Free Archetype rule to allow characters to backstop weak spots in an ad hoc group is also one of the reasons the I and many other people I know stopped Society play. By extension many conventions with BYOC (bring your own character) for scenarios rather provided pregens also suffer from this frustration

yeah i wish free archetype was used

The Raven Black wrote:

This is odd. Based on PFS standards, a PC goes through approximately 10 fights to gain a level. That makes 30 fights to get to level 4. If we make a hypothesis that you cast 2 spells with a save in each fight, that makes at least 60 saves that enemies have to roll. Likely more as many save spells have more than one target.

At least 3 of these save rolls should have been Nat 1, which is almost always a critical failure.

Zero critical failures on the enemies' side for 3 levels defies probabilities.

Two notes. First, the rule of large numbers is a thing, i.e. it may very well be that no natural 1 has come up yet at any given table for a very, very long time. Second, not all crit fails are equal, neither by ingame effect, nor by memorability. The crit fail of a mook to Electric Arc during the clean-up phase of a fight - while probably already being on his last leg and who would have died anyway even without receiving double damage - might techically count as one but will probably not be registered as one. A miniboss or boss crit failing his save versus Slow during the first round of combat, possibly even before having had a chance to act himself, is an entirely different story.

hmm glancing at strength of 1000's ap 1 which basiclly uses milestone i counted about 5 fights and a few non fight encounters before you jump to level 2 so 5 to 10 fights /or xp non fight counters seems about right

Are you playing a premade adventure? If so, which one? Or is it homebrew content?

Either way it sounds like your GM is throwing mostly higher-level enemies at you, which is definitely going to make fights a lot harder.

That said, PCs will drop more frequently in 2e and checks are going to be more volatile overall. That's just part of the game's design principles.

Sandal Fury wrote:

but it seems like that comes with the caveat that that character must be borderline minmaxed

Well, yes and no. There are certain things PF2 basically demands you do, but there are fewer overall things you can do to min-max, at least in terms of character generation.

So 2e wants you to min-max in certain ways, but mostly that comes down to making sure the stat you roll to do things (i.e. attack rolls and etc.) is as high as possible in chargen.

that has not been my experience when i run or play, heck my staff magus is a beast

me ..im making this guy

"dean Winchester"

:P

but yeah definitely wanting to try a thaumaturge , it has me holding off temporarily from spending my pfs points on an automaton monk

jimthegray wrote:

Ly'ualdre wrote:

jimthegray wrote:

while it was very fun, they really should have made it western themed...when i run it i will likely do this :)

Why exactly?

because the title is a play off westerns

Fair enough. Leshy Gunslingers ftw. Lol

i would play a cactus leshy gunslinger or even better theme wise a crossbow gunslinger one :) wearing a ten thimble hat

jimthegray wrote:

while it was very fun, they really should have made it western themed...when i run it i will likely do this :)

Why exactly?

because the title is a play off westerns

while it was very fun, they really should have made it western themed...when i run it i will likely do this :)

Midnightoker wrote:

John R. wrote:

Midnightoker wrote:

John R. wrote:

Midnightoker wrote:

Trese

Trese?

Dope anime on Netflix. She's like a thaumaturge to a t. Highly recommend since it's only 8 episodes.

Edit: ninjad by raven

You know, I've never been an anime person and my closest friends are always recommending a ton of them to me but with this one being so short, I might take you up on that. Thanks.

If it's any consolation, it's not very anime-y, just the style. Honestly gives me a lot of dresden/Constantine vibes but she's definitely more stoic

I watched Trese and a few animated DC movies with Constantine over the weekend. Trese is DEFINITELY a Thaumaturge. Constantine has similar vibes but has significant spellcasting abilities outside of what the Thaumaturge can offer on its own. I can understand the debate on if Constantine is a good example of the class.

he has gotten more castery over the years,

i would say Ron Pearlmans take on hellboy and Sam Winchester are good examples, biny on the mummy was certainly trying to be one :)

the saves and challenges in this one feel to high , when a natural 17 roll is not enough to pass a test and the encounters drop the lev 2's in 1 attack ..every time just feels like it is to tough for a tier 1 adventure

The boon to start a character at second level (Experienced Adventurer) had the character start at 12 rep for their chosen faction.

That is not represented in the reputation for the session online. How does a player report or denote online the gain of 12 reputation.

Also, I have a credit that was played for no credit (a "replay" to make a table) They got the bonus rep for the faction, which my character is still getting. How do I place a no credit tag on her so the other still get the bonus faction rep while she does not?

did not see a boon for that? where can u get it? edit--nm

hmm laughing shadow is great movement and solid damage, staff magus is very cool and in the long run will have eaiser access to more spells per day ..hard call

there's always a longbow monk

Temperans wrote:

I had this revelation in the bounded accuracy thread. Does the Expansive Spellstrike feat protect you from the damage of casting spells? Or does it make an AoE spell into a single target spell?

The Expansive Spellstrike feat is written a little confusingly. It will be interesting to see how people read it once it is fully out.

The way many folks are reading it right now, it looks like an awful feat, and a bad idea for most magi to try to use it that often. It is much worse than the playtest Striking Spell, which didn't cost you a feat. The only thing it gives you is the ability to use AoE spells but if you critically miss, you lose the spell before it goes off, so why would you really want to risk that on an AoE spell just to get the chance to do an extra melee attacks damage on one target.

It is bad because if you use the ability against the most powerful enemy, you are only increasing your chances of something going wrong, especially if their AC is high enough that you have a 10 or 15% chance of crit failing, and their saving throws are probably high enough that they have another 10 or 15% chance of crit succeeding on the save.

Meanwhile you can true strike on your spell strike with an attack roll spell and actually have a good chance of smacking the high save/ magic resistant boss enemy with a spell that could actually mess them up. You only get 4 spells with your spell slots. Sitting on an AoE that a full caster is going to just be much better than you with is giving up a lot of power.

And using a spell scroll on your weapon for something like goblin pox spell, which was cool in the playtest, just ends up wasting your spell strike that you have to recharge when a produce flame has a much better chance of doing more damage and tacking on a painful extra.

hmm you can use a harmful

How much Int does a magus need if he's only concerned with spell attack rolls and buffs?

technically none though fluffwise i would have bare minimal a 14 and personally i would normally have a 16

gesalt wrote:

Any weapon you have will share its runes with the eidolon.

If the weapon isn't handwraps you have to invest in it and be wielding it for your eidolon to benefit though.

Summoners are going to be really slow if you start a combat you aren't already ready for.

are there any summoner players that wont have there pet out 24 x 7? :)

got my pdfs!!!

Xethik wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

secrets of magic just got delayed to September 1st. tech revolution to September 22nd

Whats the source on this?

I thought they said they were committed to the PDF release by August 25th no matter what.

Paizo's twitter

Well, now I have the Big Sad.

I have a really long flight on the 26th and I'd put that time aside for my SoM reading time. Guess I'll just watch Office re-runs or something instead.

my flight to dragoncon is not until the 1st so knock on wood ill have it by then

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

i just got my secrets of magic 1st email so it appears to be on track , its saying ship 1 to 20 days lol

Gortle wrote:

Casters suck if:

a) you are regularily fighting enemies with a level advantage so you almost never get criticals
b) if you are playing a simple blaster caster, and don't get that Reflex is often a pretty good saving throw for enemies
c) you haven't got the synergy going to debuff enemies saving throws, like Intimidation or Bon Mot plus targetting will saving throws
d) you only buff and heal, because of the above

Its mostly about GMs and players. But to be fair my group started down this path too. Casters are more complex to play than martials who can get by on flanking/buffing/healing.

I actually think more people wouldn't mind playing casters if they tailored their expectations with the above in mind. I know I've found more success as a caster tailoring my spell, feat and item choices with the idea that I will always be fighting with a level disadvantage. The fancy failure and critical failure effects get people excited over something that doesn't occur nearly often enough to matter and that virtually never occur in any climactic/important battle.

breithauptclan wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Stoke the Heart is a very good damage booster that works for all damage rolls. The bard can't match that damage boost. You could even argue it works with Persistent Damage as it states it works with a damage roll.

It seems like a very underestimated hex.

If I could pick additional Hex cantrips independent of Patron, that would definitely be high on my ranking.

Unfortunately it rides along with the Divine spellcasting tradition.

This is pretty spot on. Stoke is a fantastic spell for breaking enemy hordes together with AoE spells, but divine is a miserable list for anyone except the cleric. I also don't agree that fast healing X once a fight from life boost is nearly strong enough to qualify a witch as a healer.

Quote:

some back and forth about hexes vs compositions

Given that hexes seem to take the same power budget as compositions,...

in my games its hard to get the players to not play the casters