Âdayil's page

Okay. Thanks for playing along.

I found the story was great. Loved the NPCs and the combats. I’m glad Adayil could add some color to the game and thanks for weaving stuff in and around her. Hagness was a good character/deity.

There’s just too much inflexibility in discussion of rules interpretations and too much scar tissue across the length of the game.

I think it would be useful to address points raised above, particularly where they were echoed by other players do that remaining players can feel confident moving forward.

Regardless, can you please remove me from the game so it doesn’t show up in my current campaigns?

Eh, I’m going to move on from this. It’s partly also because I’m cleaning house and simplifying my investment across a few games. And this one has just seen too many problems. Scranford - thanks for taking the time to run the game and for being open to having me back. But I’m struggling to enjoy this one so I’ll drop out.

2. I don't mind clarifying my rules judgements... but am not interested in debating them. This is what sucks my enjoyment out of the game. I'll entertain your ideas but won't debate them. I'm sorry if you don't like my interpretation of a rule or situation... but my judgement is final!!!

Yep. Pretty sure we get that. Don't even bother to entertain the ideas! Haha. ;)

You might every now and then just say "Interesting point. But definitely not happening here."

But really, after a while I think we'll all just realise you aren't actually interested in any of our rule "interpretations". Which is unfortunate, because all though RAW has...written rules....RAI is still a thing, and the written words comes across a myriad of different ways at a myriad of different tables. We're all just trying to a) make sense of the world narratively and b) have fun. Not wangle rules to get some kind of leverage or power game.

SORRY about all the drama. Sometimes real life intrudes on this pseudo life.

Not sure what you mean there at the end. If you are having stress in your life it will definitely bleed over into this? But mostly I don't see any drama. No need for you to apologise.

I'm honestly not sure. I feel like I'm being reprimanded! :)

1. Please try to work together more as a group, than wondering off doing "What your character would do".

Has this happened? Can you specify where this happened so I can see what you consider "wandering off"? This is a pretty important one for me because I don't want to feel...constrained in "acting how my character might act". Like Adayil is hardly selfish, but has a strong "self-preservation" streak and values her autonomy? I feel like I'm missing something.

I think the PF2e rules are designed to encourage this type of Role play.

Do you mean working together or wandering off? Because clearly PF2 seems to encourage "teamwork", working as a "team" and teamily teeming in the teamy ways.

I won't be "railroading" you so sometimes you have to make decisions and waiting a month to decide what to do next just won't cut it.

Yep, I don't feel this is a railroad, but again, has this happened? I haven't seen any "waiting to make a decision".

What am I missing here - it's like we have two *very* different perceptions of the game so far.

Yep. What Telurion said. I’m just coming off a fairly busy weekend. And a little unsure how to proceed in the kitchen given there was a pre-emptive Diplomacy roll but I hadn’t…done…anything. So it’s not like we aren’t all engaged, but definitely finding it a little difficult at times.

So, the ball is in your court. What is the next thing you want to do. I listed some hooks in the campaign thread... but need some direction before moving the plot along.

I’m confused. Why do we need to “choose something to do”. I thought we were in the middle of something. Telurion and Caks are doing some investigating in the yard/surrounds, I’m in the kitchen and Lil, Aduriel and Variel are elsewhere in the Asylum. I fee like we are “doing” things now. I’m not sure why we need to be pushed to do…anything.

I mean at some point we need to gather together, pool our various knowledges and decide what to do…but currently we seem to be…active?

Perhaps the biggest problem is that, as a group, we have no tacit direction. Alhindri attacked us. I was under the impression the “metaplot” was trying to figure out what the hooved being who is possibly involved is and what part Alhindri has in the rising of the undead. We have a box with parts of the fiddle. We have priests in Bard’s Gate to visit. Bard’s Gate does seem to be a larger “centre” and thus have sages, alchemists, libraries, apothecaries, shoppes, taverns etc. So I would agree Bard’s Gate seems like the place to go to continue the investigation and deliver the box, find the priests etc…

Adayil might be nominally personally interested in the Lukseth orcs, but they and the vials don’t *seem* to be important to the wider investigation *to her*.

@SB - I’m a little confused about the kitchen scene. I think you have rolled a Diplomacy check on Adayil’s behalf, but narratively she…didn’t actually interact with anyone. So far she has just been ushered in and the chef is being…a typical chef. What am I missing?

As for the current situation:

I’m not personally very invested in intrigue and investigation - I don’t oftrn play “skill monkeys” and I find the dissonance between player and character knowledge and what to do with it frustrating to navigate. And that’s at face to face tables. In PbP, with the time dilation involved it can be very hard for the party to stay “on task” unless someone (usially the GM) keeps a very good questlog on the campaign page - similar to GMNabu’s game that Supreme Being and I are in together. I think I often play outsiders with no “skin in the game” as it were as a subconscious crutch to avoid such activities. So, one orc witch who doesn’t understand civilisation at your service. I admit to finding the asylum a little anachronistic to my sense of the Lost Lands as presented so far, and Adayil sin’t exactly au fait with what is going on. Luckily the scaled rider piqued her limited interest, and she is doing what she can to assist, as clearly *something* ain’t right.

I would add “Intrigue and Investigation” to your list:

Combat
Roleplay
Intrigue/Investigation
Dungeon Crawling
Exploration/Hexploration.

(Just realised I meant to talk about Hexploration in my previous post. Because Hexploration is akin to Dungeon Crawling in that it is essentially it’s own game. And one I very much enjoy - a West Marches style approach where hazards are hidden out there in the land, are not balanced nor appropriate to your level and have differing levels of impact to the overall “plot” on a scale between “meh, this was fun but also random and advanced nothing to the plot” and “the plot is most definitely involved here”.)

@SB: As for your question upthread about favored playstyles, in no order:

1: I *like* Combat, but not endless samey combats for combat’s sake. Which thankfully hasn’t happened here. This game’s combats have been narratively useful and moreover, w. I like interesting terrain, a mix of combatants, minions with bosses, sub bosses, recurring villains, hazards, time-sensitive tasks etc. The more chaos and changing of equilibrium between sides the more I like it. I don’t like “winning for winning’s sake” either. I want a narratively satisfying loss, or a great, hard fought win. Nothing bores me more than endless combats where the party is never really in danger. It’s like watching paint dry. Going through the motions, and in PbP that is agonising.

2: Exploration? Umm, I guess? I would hazard to agree that I’m unsure of the difference between dungeoncrawling and exploration in a sense, though dungeon crawling kinda evokes a whole other genre of game - tight, fraught, combat and tricks and traps and treasure. But exploring facets of the world, and the world as it relates to my character’s experiences with the party while in it? Yep. I like that.

3: Dungeon Crawl? As above. I like it, especially if the dungeon: makes sense as a living ecosystem (or unliving as the case may be); is interesting with lore and mystery; isn’t just loads of combats; has tactically satisfying environments; has factions; has multiple levels; has tricks and traps and treasure. Fun times.

4: Role play? Sure. But this is more in the hands of the players. I like interesting party dynamics - rivalries, jealousies, friendly bantering, competition, generosity, respect, hatreds, vendettas, blessings, synergy, teamwork, good days, bad days, pecking orders, upset pecking orders, misconceptions, insults, accolades, awesome stories shared and personal demons expelled by friends. You know, like any social group.

I’ve never been a fan of ABP as I feel it does two things - abstracts from actual items, where I’m definitely wanting less abstraction in the narrative AND ruleset; and removes the pleasure of fun items. I also don’t really gel with the idea of “needing certain items” to stay relevant. Having said that, runes that add dice to weapons are kinda expected at higher levels, so….I guess you have to actually accept the reality of the ruleset. I’ll go with whatever folx want.

Adayil makes her way to the kitchen, ostensibly to use her Cauldron ability to make a whole 1 1st level heal potion , but also to surreptitiously question the cook/s. Kitchen staff see a lot of stuff…same in civilised places as in orc encampments…

[Diplomacy or Society both +4]

Hey, I believed her!!! I think the guards either haven’t told her because they might get in trouble or are tacitly involved…

Adayil moves with the typical saunter of an orc, but feels restless and trapped with little to do apart from be…confused. This place makes no sense, and yet all the talk is of a place that helps those with…none to make…some. So, having little, Adayil keeps quiet lest she be locked up too. She moves beside Abigail.

”Mistress. I am recently attacked. [here Adayil lifts her shift to expose an ugly scar on her abdomen] My child, my little one was taken from me.”

The orc locks eyes hard with Abigail, searching for…solace? Understanding?

”I…wish to make…orcish…healing magic, but to do this I need fire - heat - and water. May I use your…kitchen? I have mine own herbs…”

Haha! Let’s split the party three ways!!!

@SB: Thanks for the clarification.

As they head off to view the room, informs Abigail and the rest of the group about the look passed between the guards.

”They clearly knew what I was speaking of. They should be questioned.”

Adayil’s hackles rush as she feels something is not quite right. She tries to summon the words that these civilised people will understand.

”Please, before we see Alhindri’s recent place of…keeping.”

The orc cranes her neck a little sideways, skewering the orderlies with a piercing glare.

”Forgive my im…pertinence? I think that is a word. Rudeness? Miss Abigail - as I asked about the scalykind with the blackstaff, your people shared an…odd, knowing look between them. It is clear to me that someone here knows more about this being than is being shared…Who is this scaled hissing person? Is something being hidden from our questions?”

Sure. Makes sense. You get more flies with honey etc etc…

As for “Hero Points”, I have made a conscious decision to ignore them across all my PF2 games.

Firstly, because I don’t consider myself to be a hero, nor Hero. I am not blessed by gods nor fate. I play protagonists, usually one of a group. Perhaps if I were playing an Exemplar when it releases, I might.

Secondly, they aren’t…Heroic. They should be termed Fate or Luck points, because they can actually make a bad result worse. I have seen it happen. Which isn’t Heroic.

Thirdly, because the limit to what mechanics that you can apply them to are stupid. Two specific sets of activities - basic checks (so d20 rolls) and stabilising to notdie, but not damage rolls. Not gaining extra actions. Nothing particularly…heroic. And given the way they are designed means there is a chance at worsening your activity….no thanks. I already do that everytime I roll a check. Ludicrous.

Fourthly, because the heroism is already engendered in risking fate, not having “another, similar” chance.

Fifth, because the awarding of them is completely arbitrary and not always for being “heroic” but often more for “narrative strength” or “a great die roll”.

All in all, I think they are an interesting, if flawed concept.

People might argue I am hindering myself and thus the group by not using the mechanic. They may be right.

Adayil begins to understand that there is an argument to be had for how the elf-maid has been treated, both historically, and recently. Having some experience of…untoward experiences, both historically, and recently, Adayil feels a sense of responsibility for the girl. Bereft of familial or clan care. Attacked. Lost and alone.

Looking at Aduriel, the orc puts a hand on his arm, to try to provide succour where she cannot for the sister.

”The girl is addled. Her mind is not her own. She wanders without guidance - even wandered toward her own death by drowing. She needs help. Will you help us to find out what….in…all the fates…is happening here?”

Going to roll for either Medicine or Diplomacy at +4. I’d prefer to try the Medicine angle because these are medical professionals and because I’m quixotic…

Skill: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (13) + 4 = 17

@SB - I’m finding your responses don’t mesh with what I’m talking about.

Firstly: Neither I nor Adayil have “assumed” anything. Nor has Caks, nor Aduriel. Lil and Telurion are acting naturally, and how that is perceived by the staff is entirely up to them.

Life is full of perspective dissonance.

To Lil, the presence of burly orderlies, and men with halberds might be at odds with her concept of “medicine” or a “hospital”. She’s upset.

To Telurion, there has been a lapse in responsibility. Somewhere. People have died horribly. In his village. Yesterday. He is looking for answers.

To Aduriel, his “friends” are jumping the gun. He needs help with his sister.

To the staff, a crazed bunch of armed weirdoes have burst in with an escaped patient and are variously: speaking to no-one, asking about strange beings and demanding answers in a manner that conveys a certain amount of unwelcome and likely unwarranted suspicion. The staff are possibly angered, and possibly rattled.

Caks justs wants someone, anyone, to acknowledge her. She’s small.

You are stating that “we” have burnt bridges. We aren’t a homogenous single entity. And apart from Telurion’s tacit roll, there haven’t been any skill-related failures.

It might be useful to take a an approach that seeks to understand what the characters are doing, and how the world reacts rather than going partly off narration and partly off rolls.

For me, I’d not be surprised if the staff react badly. But that’s life. You takes your chances.

@SB - also, Aduriel requested a Loremaster Lore check on the scaly rider/black staff….

@All: I’n finding the interaction between secret rolls, rolls, and social situations a little tricky. In this instance, I would prefer our characterisations to follow a narrative discourse, and then have SB make a roll based on what the intent is perceived to be. Otherwise we can in character say whatever we want, and then have the mechanics totally not jive with what was said.

I thought the idea was that we acted according to what our character intended, and SB would adjudicate and make a roll. The alternative seems to be to spam Social rolls (Diplo,Intim, Decep) and see how the chips may fall.

In Adayil’s most present Gameplay post, she isn’t “trying” anything, she’s merely trying to be heard, and to find information. But it could be seen as “Intimidate” ing to shush everyone to get them to be quiet so she can talk.

@SB: Do you want us to tacitly tell you which Social skill we are attempting; and do you want us to roll? Do you give bonuses for particularly compelling words?

@Aduriel: it seems as if Lil and Telurion are somewhat a) upset that Alhindri were released “to then cause havoc” and b) Lil is a bit upset with the nature of the Asylum.

However misplaced such notions may or may not be in the eyes of the Asylum keepers I have no problems with these two characters acting….in character? Lil seems particularly upset about individual free agency, and Telurion seems like a typical villager upset that…his…village…was preyed upon.

From your post above, it seems like you are questioning Lil and Telurion’s players what the point of their actions is/are? Likely Aduriel might be upset that what is nominally Aduriel’s family business has been hijacked by wanton interlopers, but he can definitely say as much to the Asylum staff to try to “rectify” the situation.

I think there might need to be a conversation about “metagaming” and “character agency”.

Adayil watches with interest. Clearly, by the way her allies are pressing with strained voices and fierce expressions, these are “bad people” who are likely not to be trusted. Adayil nods in encouragement as Caks tries to be heard, but the bigfolk are too busy being…big and as usual not listening to the small folk.

The orc steps forth, and throws her hands out to quiet the ruckus.

”Ahhem! Mistress Abigail. I am Adayil. I beg a question. A rider, scaly. Riding from here. With a staff blacker than night. What business did they have here?”

I have a question about “rolls” and “intent”. Will take it to Discussion.

According to SB, the rider was female, and riding away from the Asylum, toward the direction we were coming from. Not sure exactly which direction that exactly is.

”Hush, annoying one! Yes, I will ask!” Adayil says…seemingly to the room, somewhat louder than she would have liked. Some of the orderlies with Miss Abigail look at her askance, and she stares back at them with all the ire she can muster.

What are *they* looking at!?!

Nah, the weekend was just very full for me!

Adayil struggles to fully understand what this place…is…or…achieves. Clearly it is a prison of some sort, but the prisonkeepers are incredibly odd - a mix of kindly and…less kind? And what kinds of transgressions have the prisoners committed that are equal to Alhindri’s slaughter?

For the moment, Adayil listens carefully, and takes her lead from brave Telurion. He seems to navigate this world well, and also, importantly, is strong.

At the fort

After thanking Telurion for his assistance, Adayil’s attention gradually fades from current needs to her recent trauma. She sits and feels her belly, empty of life - the earlier coursing of adrenaline now replaced by pangs of sorrow. She draws little comfort from watching the Lukseth turn to ash.

Now…

Unused to the “usual” clientele of an asylum, Adayil thinks nothing of the unwelcome rider. The orc merely moves out of the way.

She watches as the rider passes, nods to Telurion, but is clearly not concerned.

Given the staff was particularly mentioned, does Adayil recognise anything about it? Arcana/Occultism +8. Also remember Aduriel has “Loremaster Lore” which is even crazier than a Thaumaturge’s Esoteric Lore schtick…

Well, I’m not sure I would class a living thing like a body or attached biological material (hair etc) as an “object” or people totally will get creative with using prestidigitation as a weapon. Like I said a) I’d forgotten about using magic for this and b) happy to light a fire.

I’ve posted elsewhere on the forums about the problematic nature of this particular spell, and the mindset of designing a million spells to do a million different variations of what I *personally* think should fall under the scope of “prestidigitation” so probably best not to open this particular can of worms…

I completely forgot about that particular use of prestidigitation, even though I *just* used it to clean the hide armor.

Perhaps I’m scarred from my other PF2 game where my elf who had charged into a swamp to fight a frog monster asked the party bard (who did *not* charge in to said swamp to fight said frog monster) to use magic to dry her breeches and the party bard cast a light spell on them “for fun”. I actually had to take that particular incident to the Discussion thread to clarify.

Having said that, drying clothes is one thing, but drying bodies and hair is probably *beyond* the purview of the spell. Thus: pyre! Also removes bodies.

No complaints from me! Will try to remember, RK is a secret roll!

Adayil doesn’t seem to provide any more information regarding the Lukseth to her companions.

”So. We are rejoined. I advise a gathering of bodies and a pyre to dispose of them and…cleanse the grounds. We will need heat to dry you after all…”

Hilariously, I failed to even notice the word “rune” and thought the was only red wax sealing the tubes. Completely missed “silver rune” at least twice! Not that Adayil would be that interested, as she is more focused on the Lukseth details…

Adayil moves from tent to tent gathering her gear. Taking an orc knuckledagger as a memento, she strips the Lukseth captain of his armor, quickly casting a prestidigitative to clean the dank away. The coins pouch she spills, then piles together and presents to the group, and offers the stoppered vials to them also, unopened.

”I have no idea what these are, but these Lukseth clan orcs may be engaged in strange activities.”

Recall Knowledge: Society: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21 [Re: info about Lukseth]

There is also the Aid action

Aid from GM Core

Aid, the Action from Player Core

Not sure how this all interacts, or if you have to have declared Aid before or after the attempt. In PF1e Aid Another mostly seemed to be an after thing.

If you have a Hero Point, you could reroll. Though you might roll a 1 and somehow make things even worse….

Once Alhindri is declared safe, Adayil will be searching, first for for her equipment and second looting the orcs for weapons and armor. Now that she has Sentinel Dedication she can wear up to Medium armor. Strength might still be an issue for penalties etc, but let’s see if the orcs *actually* have any.

Also: well done all in that combat. Nice work and some good rolls. Except you Variel. You were….terrible. ;)

Adayil smiles to herself, and sends a warm impulse of emotion, as if to reply

Tomorrow, little one. You can be a wet one all day….

Adayil quickly pivots on hearing Telurion, a smile erupting on her bruised face. She near leaps to embrace him.

”Telurion! By the spirits - it is a welcome sight to see your face. And Caks, Lil! Where is our halfling friend? And who have you picked up along the wa…..is that Alhindri in the water? What is she doing?” she asks with much consternation.

Adayil moves from Telurion to stand on the bank, a dishevelled wraith not willing to trespass on water’s edge.

I thought Variel was merely going to assist Aduriel. Something like (to Adayil) “Don’t have to time for deeper introductions, and it seems like your friends are also keen to see you are ok - as a do-goody cleric I am honor bound to assist maidens in this dress”. Or similar.

I posited initially that once heightened above 1st level version, all cantrips become 2 Action activities.

I don’t see a particular problem with Spell and Cantrip, because Spell still uses up a slot, so there resources (limited spellslots) become the limitation.

Spellstrike….possibly keep it at 2 Action given it really is 2 things, but possibly not - also see the resources point above. Amd if not, give Spellstrike the flourish trait.

Sure, monsters can do it if you can. At least that is SB’s mantra. But given monsters are built differently than PCs though still beholden to the same spell mechanics and action economy, I’m sure it could be tweaked.

Honestly though, this is more about low-level agency for casters than improving power or damage output.

Adayil huffs a little, trying to take stock of the situation. Once she realises the fracas is done, she moves to scoop up Krutk and ensure his carapace is undamaged and that he is more or less…together.

The presence of an unknown elf and the arrival of an equally unknown half-elf keeps Adayil slightly tense, but that the former appears to know her friends and the latter seems not aggressive mollifies her more dangerous impulses. Adayil stares at the half-elf.

”Who are you? Where did you come from?” she says in Common.

[Variel may have some difficulty separating Adayil from the dead orcs, but can probably tell she isn’t aggressive nor evoking any aggression from the rest of the non-orcs….]

*SB - my point about electric arc is entirely theoretical. The way to “balance” this heinously overpowered 1 Action homebrewed electric arc is to also throw the flourish trait on it, which then prevents it from being used more than once per round. All this would do would be to give a caster more options for things to do with one now unused Action than they could have - freed up agency and narrative power for characters that aren’t otherwise given a lot. It would prevent them using any other 1 Action Cantrip (as you would make them all 1 Action, but with flourish) and therefore wouldn’t just move the problem around.

[As long as it isn’t a game mechanic, praying to your god is a free action…]

Caks made a caveat for her third action:

{If Orc prone and is dead after the first strike, then move following the blue arrow}

@Supreme Being - I now realise something very clearly - you and I are almost diametrically opposed.

I want the rules to be loose and pliable, able to comport themselves to needs of the narrative. You want the rules to be solid and able to accommodate and navigate every action the players wish to do.

I want the world to be solid and robust, detailed and described as presented by you so that I can feel comfortable moving within it. You want the world to be open and collaborative to allow the players agency and help with the worldbuilding.

Neither of is right, neither of us is wrong. We are just diametrically opposed.

Also, there totally is a rock on the ground next to Adayil. I think….yep….I can almost see it on the map. It’s brown. And rocky. Like our relationship. ;)

That electric arc above isn't heightened. If you were level one and it was a one action spell that's what you could do. And... no MAP as it requires a save and it's not an attack.

If it was a level one spell, and it wasn’t heightened, but it *did* have the flourish trait, then that’s what you couldn’t do, and it wouldn’t be overpowered.

* As for worldbuilding, you are taking what I said to an extreme position. I’m happy to collaborate, but I’m not wanting to create my surroundings, tell *you* or the other folks what I see or hear - I’ve never in my experience since…1982? seen that, or seen it work. My job as a player is to interpret and act accordingly, not to make up the color of the walls, the type of weather we are having or the current temperature. Or if there is a handy rock I can pick up and smash over the head of the orc. You say that there is a line we can’t cross, and in PbP, that is going to be really, really hard to determine.

I want to inhabit the world you, as the GM are presenting. I’m not asking for anything *extra* just a little more description of what it is around me where you think it might help players interpret where they are. Surroundings, light levels, weather; what our foes *obviously are wearing/holding* - the more you add the tiniest of touches, the more we can bounce off. That doesn’t mean we will, or even realise that the drawn curtains are aiding the shadow-creature, but we can’t bounce off what isn’t there.

* I don’t get point 3 part of your analogy. I think it needs to be clearer. Not surprising given you and I see the rules and the way the rules are interpreted so differently.

Re: Electric Arc: No, let’s make it one Action *with the flourish trait*, which, becomes 2 Action when heightened. That’s my point. It isn’t to make it “overpowered”, it’s to make it satisfyingly useful and in line with being a “cantrip”. I mean, what is a cantrip that separates it from a spell, and a focus spell or a ritual? If it is plinky, like at 1st level, why is it two Actions? And yes, I probably have dissonance from much earlier editions where cantrips were also incredibly slight.

Re: knuckling up in a bar fight: If the patrons are wearing armor and wielding weapons, I’ll be trying to kill, maim and incapacitate. Let alone the fact that foolish people seem to be able to one-punch kill people all the time outside of bars/on the street in Australia, almost “by accident”. It’s like a national pastime.

Re: narrative agency: I am extremely uncomfortable “creating narratively useful physical materia, situations, objects” etc. This strikes me as either an incredibly reckless move to offer such as the GM, or an incredibly relaxed GM. I much prefer to rely on you to explain what my character sees, to create the world, so that I can react to it. I very much dislike “shared creation” as in every single case you get wildly different concepts of what the shared world actually is, ending up with a pastiche of poor, disjointed and jarring concepts at variance with one another and not at all assisting verisimilitude. To be clear: I don’t think this is lazy or passive on my behalf, I move in as much as I can with the little I allow myself - Krutk’s form, my tribe. That’s about it. The rest is, in my opinion, entirely on you and, again, in my opinion, you should revel in it and run it how you see fit.

Re: timing - yep I get it. You don’t see or understand everything, but still, every bit helps the player make a decision based on what they understand their character sees, hears, smells, touches etc…

Re: “whining”. Ha! Guilty as charged! You think I don’t notice that by and large, it’s only me that has a problem?!? Clearly I’m the problem!!!

You certainly know about Orc's so you wouldn't need to recall knowledge about the heritage... however you might need a RK: Society Roll to know about this particular clan. I've already revealed that you're familiar with this tribe and their ways, however.

Ah, yep, gotcha. Will look at possibly using RK: Society for deeper info about their clan. Thanks for the heads up.

I thought Orc 4 was female - the narration mentioned something about her and alcohol she had drunk?

As for the crawl scenario - this is PbP. I had no idea what I might see when I hypothetically walked/crawled out of the tent. C’mon, you can’t seriously expect me to use metagame knowledge to see something I can’t see while still resolving my turn after possibly using an action I’ve never seen used before. At least at some point think about what you are suggesting. Yes, it *could* happen, but it could only happen at a face to face table where: I take one action to crawl; then ask you what I can see *without* a Seek action; and then take my other actions based on that new knowledge. I now know I should have taken the time to post a whole bunchof questions about what my options are. I essentially hate that I feel like a complete noob, and have to ask a whole bunch of clarifying statements every time I want to do something that isn’t even out of the ordinary. And SB, your descriptions need to be better. Please tell me what my character can see, before I ask “What can I see”. Sadly, I seem to be the sort of player that relies on information to make a post.

I thought I was being astute by following the lead of Orc 4 and dutifully rising from prone and Striding *just to get out of the f*6king tent*. Sheesh.

The Thievery is a good idea *in theory* but I’m not au fait with the uses of Thievery - I had no idea you could steal objects from people. Which also makes me wonder why *I can* use Thievery to steal from them unawares, while at the same time am *unable* to get the off-guard bonus for attacking them unawares. They totally have their back to my position, but alas, Pathfinder has no facing. It’s like fighting 2d-rendered sprites in a First Person Shooter. ;)

Also, I don’t need to steal a weapon, I just needed to have a one action spell that *actually* is useful (don’t laugh, I actually considered using prestidigitation to try…something…anything…) or…a fist. Because next round, if I’m notdead, I can use all my glorious Actions.

Gah. Ok. It really seems like Fighter feats are designed to a)only afford assistance to a category of weapon-style (two-weapon, two-handed, “ranged”*; with little *offensive* support for shield users AND/OR are b) completely situational, and in my opinion, more akin to general Actions any character should be able to commit.

But sure, let’s keep looking.

Hmm. Ok, this looks vaguely great.

Quick Reversal. Alrighty then! Ok, so I have to have gotten myself into a pretty bad situation, flanked on both sides. Sure. That occasionally happens. And, it gives you two strikes for one Action, AND the second strike had the same MAP as the first strike. Yay! ….. Oh, wait a minute. Ha. You got me. It has the Press trait. Of course it does. Which means you can only use this “Action” if you are *already* suffering from MAP. Yep. That makes sense, if I’m being flanked, before I use my special maneuver, I’m going to make a basic, other Strike. Sure. Thanks for nothing Paizo.

Hmm.

Ok, what about….Swipe. Hmm, on the surface it looks ok. Fairly situational again, the foes have to be in reach, and adjacent. It foes cost two Actions however. Also, you have the awesome opportunity of rolling really low for damage and applying it to *both* foes. Yay again! Plus, this one *does* count as two Strikes for MAP. Because nothing feels me better than being punished over and over for just trying to do something interesting beyond “I stab it with my Intimidating Stealth glare of Recall Knowledge.” Also, extra points for being a Flourish traited gated thingy. Because of course, the only time this actually would matter, is if you somehow get an extra action, precisely the only time you might actually *want*, let alone be *able* to do this twice in a round.

I think my problem is that I believe the ruleset chassis is robust, dynamic and elegant, but the feat interactions do absolutely everything possible to return it to narrative stagnancy.

Also, speaking of rules, can anyone here help me with this question I had in a game I’m in with Ira - my Fighter just hit 4th level, and I’m looking for a useful feat:

I asked that group the following question:

“Can someone help me parse the Slam Down feat? It says “If you’re wielding a two-handed melee weapon, you can ignore Trip’s requirement that you have a hand free.” Are they just putting that in there for 2-handers? I.e.= Does that mean I can still use the feat to trip if I’m wielding a one-handed weapon and a shield? Or does Trip have the unenviable position of being really, really, situational?”

My GM replied:

“Trip Action Requires you have at least one hand free. Your target can't be more than one size larger than you.

Some weapons have the trip trait that allows you to use the trip action without a free hand.

The Slam Down only removes the free hand requirement for two-hand weapons. Looks like you can't use trip if you are wielding a longsword and shield.

(I may have been playing my druid wrong in another game with regard to trip.)”

Can this be correct? What then is the point of the feat? To *not* be used by a person wielding a sword and shield, or two weapons, but able to be used by a 2-hander? Or I guess, an unarmed attacker. Why make the weird caveat that if both your hands are on one weapon, you can ignore the Trip requirement, but if both hands are on two weapons, or a weapon and a shield….you….can’t ignore the Trip requirement. “Oh, OSW, of course, you idiot, it is in the title. SLAM DOWN. It is clearly a trip.”

@Aduriel - well you are partially correct about Prone as it imparts a -2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls so any spell *without* an attack roll is thus a superior option to a weapon Strike (or other Action with the Attack rider like Trip etc) while also Prone.

Pretty sure I could have just stayed in the tent too! Pretty hidden in there!

Good points on spells Aduriel, though possibly not the prone point. Weapons can still be used prone, even unarmed attacks. Supreme Being and I are in a game where our plucky Half-orc ranger party member managed to drop an opponent with a particularly well placed kick (Critical Hit, unarmed strike) while lying in the prone position. I think it was flavoured as a kick in the unmentionables.

@SB - this talk of spells targeting weak saves brings up an interesting point. As an actual orc, do I get an automatic success to RK orcs, or do you rule that I need to make an RK or Lore: Orcs check. I mean, there probably isn’t much to learn in terms of saves etc, but still, curious.