celestialiar's page

I will post some in here now. Even though I continue to be pessimistic about whether it matters.

I can't say PFO is a bad game. I mean, maybe looking back at it in some years, I'll be like WOW PFO WAS TERRIBLE. It doesn't have that effect on me right now. It's just... very flavorless.

I feel like (rehashing) they were very insistent on making a good payment model, very into creating the world and getting the servers right, which is mostly awesome even though it's got some hitches. However, they forgot to make a unique game.

The main thing I wanted was something more like TT. Everyone can talk til they are blue about how that's impossible. They can even say BUT THE RIGHTS. Really? It couldn't be something *similar*?

Pathfinder Sandbox is an amazing idea. In fact, it is an idea that is more amazing to people with higher expectations. I think that's why some people are so disappointed.

If there had been some level of that in the game...

It's like we can't have dice rolls, that's copyrighted! We can't have misses, that'd be too hard. In the end, you get a game with some familiar names.

I feel duped.

The one thing you can say about these threads is they tend to be the most active, oddly.

I guess furthermore you have to ask yourself what you would do if you were Andy. It seems as though he wants to love this game. If you were given a game that said, "We'll give you a hand in building it..." and at some point you felt as though it wasn't happening, would you just walk away?

I think it's interesting that people come in here and bash Andy opposed to just ignoring the threads, if they dislike them.

Plus, let's all keep in mind there is still time for the game to get better. Does no one want the game to get better?

I agree with his sentiment in that it is past the "wouldn't it be cool" stage (as I have often said.) Now we're really getting to see what the finished product will look like. Sure, it's just a frame, but I don't think they can build outside of the frame... much.

We are all in this boat more or less together. It's funny that people continue to say stuff like "Just leave!"

bunny hops thru thread favorite-ing.

We already have proof positive that the population is too small to cope with the escalation system.

Double post (sort of) I don't agree with this. If it was worth it, people would clear them. If you can do it in 4 hours with 5 strong people ( throwing out numbers) and you get an amazing reward, then people would go throughout the map clearing them.

Also, if there was ever an issue making those hexes impassable, people would clear them. Then, the further hexes would be overrun. I mean, the escalation system is good, I think. It's just too simple like everything else.

Show me an escalation system where the dudes, after getting at 100, start building a monster settlement, heh. You know?

I think the main issue, even though clearing them can take a long time, is just that people don't want to be bothered. Nobody is like in all-chat "An escalation is forming!" and like 10 people report to that hex.

The downside of making it even more ridiculous in terms of hex control is people may feel it's grind, but as I said, it just seems that they can be avoided, for now.

Maybe not everyone has my mindstate, but, let me repeat, if it was necessary or worthwhile to clear an escalation with however many people I had, I would do it. But it's neither... to the point where it's essential. Escalations have to become an issue. They have to make it so you can't gather, pass, pvp, etc in the hex... otherwise, it doesn't matter. As long as mobs can be run around or through, no issue.

Edit: so possibly the escalation system is taking control due to player apathy, and it's less of a proof of a low pop game than an apathetic playerbase, currently. Low pop of dedicated players could do it.

Quote:

This game is in serious trouble and burying our heads in the sand and saying it's all going according to plans isn't going to fix the problem.

There is a lot of middle ground between pretending everything is all right and being a white knight, and griefing the forums continuously to facilitate a negative perception of the game.

What the game/community really needs is for the the white knights and forum griefers to back off, and provide more room for the less vocal majority to provide constructive criticism and useful feedback to the development team.

I would cry a bit if I was described as a forum griefer. haha.

Probably am, oh well.

That's not my issue.

If it matters what I think (and I can say again, for fun), I don't have the same problems with the game that other people do. I don't have any issue with paying for EE as is... IF the game continues to improve. I am more worried about the OE state, looking at the game now, than the EE state.

If they can go from Alpha now to OE in 20-whatever, then that's gg. If it's partially the game I want, I would probably pay them through then. So, I would say I am neither a white knight nor a griefer. I can believe; I want to believe. I have optimism, but certain things have really made me take a step back.

The issue is basically this: I played Alpha solo for awhile. I had fun. I played alpha with my buddy for awhile, I had fun. Now, I've pretty much done everything there is to do. No, I didn't take it to tier 3 gear or whatever, but enough to get a 'feel' for what they have to offer. It really does feel, after much thinking, like something is missing. It could be full loot pvp. That could literally fix the game, and I would like to see that in the game before EE, but it seems to me everything other than pvp is underdeveloped. And no, I don't believe a game can survive on pvp alone.

Edit: @ Ryan,

I can speak for Mortal. I played it. It's imbalanced, somewhat. The main issue is exploits. They have duped and they have stuff like mining macros that really kill the game. Also, they have speed hacks and, in that game, even a tiny bit of speed is enough. Like 2%, cuz you can run and self-heal.

The positive of Mortal is that even though it's in a literal beta state still, it's deep. It's got a lot of systems. It's also got GMs that you can say GM I FELL THRU THE EARTH FIX ME. And they say OK! Or my mount... it didn't follow me.

The thing that turned people off to Mortal more than anything was the way pvp was. It's a very high stress level game. I didn't mind because it was a challenge. I still did my stuff. Farming was fun in that game, gathering was fun... because I was focusing on mastering the cooking system in the game. Why cooking? Why not. It was kind of mathy. I traveled all over the map, farming, gathering. Then, when I finally figured it out... I became bored. All of the games flaws came to the forefront. That it was all big guilds just ganking people, etc.

That Mortal had a system it took me 2 to 3 months to master (counting gathering to experiment) was cool. I am missing that in PFO. Some of us want non-combat challenges. We want occult knowledge.

I can't speak on Eve, however.

Peace.

The reason why they probably aren't going to launch Thursday is player unrest. Add to that they have been quiet in response to it... we should be ready for a push-back. Rightly so, I've taken a huge step back from monitoring these forums because it's too chaotic. I can't sit there thinking O ITS ON then be pushed back.

I think if they could fix the game then yeah... it would be nice to wait until it's fixed. The truth is: bugs don't bother me. I've played buggy games and laughed off bugs.

The underlying issue is, as said, it's not balanced yet. The armor, the encumbrance, probably stam, too (assuming they didn't fix that... haven't been in game for awhile) are huge issues.

as I said in another thread: the game can launch slowly, but they should avoid trying to pop it into EE if there is a chance they could have to roll back and/or give an unfair advantage to people.

IF Heavy armor is king, people will spec heavy armor. Even knowing they will get nerfed. Or the game will be all heavy armor characters. Which, we wonder... is heavy armor even balanced against light armor at the moment?

Many questions, most regarding balance, to me. I think MVP should be balanced. Even if it is bare. Games never recover from extended periods of imbalance, at least in my eyes. Some people can overlook it, but people who go super hard can get so much stuff in 6 months, knowing the imbalances.

@Celestialar would you say more what 'more interesting environment' looks like in your vision?

Open question: I think we will end needing more (beyond better escalations) of a PvE game to reach a right end state, but aside from Emerald Spire and eventual set-piece encounter instances crafted by players, what might improve the PvE Environment in your view?

Starts at the bottom with challenge and rewards.

I want both things, though. I want a very interactive as well as dangerous environment.

I want places to be different and the further you venture into the wilderness, the more you should be able to get crazy rewards and also find crazy enemies.

I'd like to see places where everything changed. Like snow places or a volcanic area... I want to feel as though I am in this environment.

I really wanna see some pickable stuff. I wanna see things you can touch. I want enemies that are gonna keep the good rewards protected, not the players.

As I have said before, I think the ideal sandbox is a functional game with sandbox features on top of it... not a game that is very base and requires the players to provide all of the danger, reward, etc.

PvE is that part that would make someone want to play if they didn't like pvp. It's imperative, in my eyes, to get people who only play as PvE. It's a different type of person, it creates social dynamics.

Again: I feel PvE is the base of the game, then you add sandbox open pvp on top of it and everyone wins. As far as I can tell, no game has done this.

Dungeons, to me, do not matter because they are, although not instanced, something outside of the general PvE. I want to have to think where I am going, both because of players and PvE challenges. I want a chance to use the environment in my favor if I understand it better than my enemy.

LiF feels like more is going on.

I dunno if I can say the graphics are better or whatever, but if both PFO and LiF were in the state they are in without any possible issues (like crashing to desktop level issues), I would play LiF.

I can get behind that sort of a sandbox and I was pretty sad to realize PFO has much less environmental interaction. I like that you can click on something and interact.

PFO doesn't have much interaction at all. The reason LiF seems more promising is because there seems to be a larger structure to build with where as PFO doesn't seem as though it's gonna do anything except polish what they already have... which is bare bones even if there are PoI, Settlements, etc.

I have more fun gathering twigs to make a campfire in LiF than I do in PFO. haha. LiF is also more immersive because you have to eat and such. PFO doesn't feel like a world to me.

Edit: you know the reason I come to PFO forums every once in awhile is because I kinda feel like they may say something like O we were wrong! Our game isn't robust enough, we are going to make it deeper! I know it's stupid, but it'd be nice if it happened.

Otherwise, I may have to make a meaningful choice and stop checking.

Am I the only one here who really REALLY hates the ALT economy or most MMOs?

I understand having Alts to play, learn new stuff on, and to make a "different" character but it seems like the popular opinion around here is pushing is that Alts should have little to no restrictions on trading from PC to PC, should be the primary AH market dominators, and should always be free from PvP since they have no interest being logged in for moments at a time let alone every leaving town.

I'd personally LOVE to see a system whereby items and equipment cannot ever be exchanged between characters when one of them is not gaining XP. I look at it like taxes, if you can't pay the bill for the PC, you shouldn't have access to any of the trading, reputations gates, or Marketplace since they are essentially homeless leeches that don't add anything to the system, instead they just move it around to make the game harder for others at their own profit.

Double post: ??

Is it that serious? There are other ways to limit such things.

DT is gonna be an alt regardless. So, basically, then the game is only playable for DT people. They will get to abuse the system, but no one else... I guess because they paid the tax?

People are gonna know the world market regardless, also.

If you wanna make the system so no alts, then make no f2p period. F2p might be a good business model, but it ruins games. Sooner or later, people find a way to exploit it.

If every char had a subbed account with 4 slots or whatever is "average", it would be a non issue. All of this financial wiggling is going to be a headache because, more than likely, there will be loopholes. And it's like the rep system: it hurts the person who isn't playing against the grain. Cuz they get limited where as the people who will do whatever it takes will find a way.

I really feel like the game system should be designed to stop this. It's not hard to be creative. But the issue then is that games want to bleed every cent out of people. Many metaphors... like "Do you think if you get a membership to a gym, you get all services..." but the issue is that gaming used to be free beyond initial purchase. Now, we have decided we will pay a company per month, and they still want more. They want to have half sub micro-transaction characters who will, as I said, destroy the economy. It is inevitable.

But, people still play games with bad economies. Especially if they got destiny twins plus understand how to game the system.

When they said, "You can have as many characters as you want!" naive me didn't think they meant "if you sub them...!"

People avoid escalations. I remember logging on the next day after passing through one... again they aren't really big enough that you can't go around them. IF they made the hexes impassable then they would be much tougher.

I logged in and it was like WOW this escalation is still at 100%. I even said in the chat WE NEED TO CLEAR THIS ESCALATION. No reply.

I don't think they grow really fast, but the issue is that people don't care. No rewards, no challenge beyond whack a mole...

I still think if you had 2-3 people you should be able to make a dent in an escalation.

You should be able to clear one in a very long time. Now it seems like it would take a day haha. I don't even really understand how to clear escalations. Do you kill all mobs or just the xs? I've not found much reduction from killing the xs. Would be nice if the mobs were HARDER, more aggressive ( so that you couldn't just walk through a high escalation hex) and not so spread out with so many tiny groups. It's more like cockroaches now than anything.

Imagine an escalation that was literally wall to wall with enemies, that would be funny. I don't think being able to sneak through them is good at all.

I believe very strongly that a non training character on a paying account should be able to log in. I even believ that a character on a non paying account should be able to log in. Whatever limitations placed on them I'll et GW and the rest of the community crowdforge I don't have that strong an opinion.

What I do believe however, is that alts should be able to do everything ,including queue to the hearts content, until GW has provided a mechanism for us to train more than one character per account.

I think if your account has a paid character on it, you should be able to play your non-exp gaining alts. This basically means that you have to sub per char slot... or close, which is pretty ridiculous.

Now, if you stop subbing your acct, then I could see it... All of this is built around F2P ideas and MTX. I don't like it. I know it's seen as an essential model, but that you only get one character per 15 bucks a months is extremely steep.

Edit: well I somewhat take that back because I guess you could just keep switching your exp gainer. Still don't like it one bit.

well this game puts my gpu to 60+C (which is V high for me, in almost any other game) on lowest settings. I guess I am playing in 25x14 but still. I think it actually became cooler with the latest build... like 56. But using that level of GPU, I would worry about running it on a laptop even if it was running.

Make sure that it's not frying her gpu. Should keep an eye on the temp.

Please just make the game interesting.

Make the game fun. Make crafts deeper: specs within specs, more loot, more differential of weapon types, etc etc etc...

It sucks that dudes are already giving away their accounts... I am sour some days, as I have been for awhile, but I wanna see EE. I still have faith. Albeit not blind faith.

GIVE US HUNGER. Give us more and more reasons to play, little micro-managements. Every game has grind, but when it's not fun is when the problem arises.

We need a game where people can have "jobs." I dunno if any part is going to be complex enough to consider it a job... yet.

celestialiar wrote:

The graphics don't have to be good... IF the game is solid. That's what I'm banking on. Depth, balance. I want the math and ideas to be right. The graphics are just to display concepts, to me.

Now if they don't do that, then it's over... if it doesn't end up having its own flavor that people cannot get elsewhere.

I don't recall if it has been addressed, but the animation of combat is at least in part related to game play.

PFO having its own flavor means it needs to have something yuan is innovative or unique to itself. What is that expected to be?

I suppose it is. There are issues. Animation is much easier to do than make everything shiny, I imagine. Some animations in PFO don't even exist yet.

It's nearly impossible to predict a MMO's success. Few have been successful, really. I do feel I have a pretty good handle on what WON'T be good. WildStar fell into that. There is a certain trajectory of hype. I think that's almost by design now. I dunno if companies believe they can hold major subs for so long so they want to sell a lot early.

I do want to say something, all of the stuff I talk about or want in a game (and believe will actually be positive once someone goes all the way in on it) probably won't happen. I know this. That aside, PFO, while not having a unique flavor (to me, yet), is a very ambitious project. All of the skills, the synergies, the feat synergies... a lot of that stuff is not working so well now. Making it all work to combos, balancing it, making builds viable. That's going to be hard work. However, again, it will be all for naught if they don't come up with something special.

Again, a Mortal Online comment: MO was buggy. It was filled with psychopathic people (truly), it had speed hacking and duping. Many unsavory ways to make money, but... that game was had something special that you couldn't get elsewhere.

I feel that the specialness comes less from raw game play than vision. I haven't heard any magic words from PFO staff about their vision. That may be an issue. I understand there is hype, but have we even heard a speech on "What will make PFO different?" Other than, you know, it has words you will recognize if you've played dnd.

The only thing that caught my eye was escalations and they are already boring to me. No real sense of urgency yet... or reward.

Edit: @ AET Raf, the issue with grind is being stuck. If you are always grinding and always progressing that's doable. My Cleric leveled up from 4 focus to 5 by getting 100 focus kills (mostly stacked goblins), and I need 6 to get my next skills (will probably try other ways soon tbh), and I saw the counter go to... 100 out of 250. And I just shook my head. That's only... maybe a couple hours? An hour+ of serious just touch-farming (cuz that's the only skill that does any dmg), but the idea that I was stuck and unable to progress despite the fact that I have 20,000+ experience... was not pleasant for me.

We grind in real life. We progress towards goals, but when you are staring at a number counter watching it slowly rise, that's when grinding becomes an issue.

I keep tellin yedudes how to make a successful MMO.

Make it a sandbox, as in the players can overcome anything, there is TC and everything, but introduce large scale pve events that push the community to choose. Like PVE sieges or take overs of areas (not escalations... at all.)

Keep the game sandboxy, but add content. There is no added content that will make a game not sandboxy.

I have looked into the future and I believe that, not the sandpark model, is the future of MMO. So meaningful choices, TC, but also a world where things happen that aren't started by players. A game with npc villains, npc bounty hunters... Just little things like that, I'm telling ya.

I'm convinced that's going to be the only enduring model from here forward, but people aren't trying it yet. People want open pvp and sandbox. I think everyone secretly wants that, but they also want content. Not 'rides' or 'quests' but truly dynamic events that could last weeks.

GW if you want your game to be the best ever... heed.

Edit:

Atheory wrote:

Another MMO crash and burn? doesn't surprise me. My bet is on PFO to succeed

Setting hope aside for a moment, what do you base your bet on?

I don't ask this question to be contrarian or condescending, I am genuinely curious as to what you have seen so far that makes PFO stand above other MMOs.

the glimmer of hope that they will actually listen and take chances. That's all. I am up and down regarding whether I believe.

Nihimon wrote:

First, I was specifically limiting my suggestions to the variables that Stephen explained he could easily change.

Second, I was hoping that Stephen or another dev would expound on the more nuanced aspects of their intentions with Threat Decay. I understand that some decay is necessary if they don't have a distance-based leash.

Having it be more dangerous to run through mob infested areas does not strike me as a downside. The world is supposed to be dangerous, and groups acting cohesively are, I believe, intended to be more successful than solo gatherers.

That danger was always expected to come from other players, primarily.

It is, but hear me out on this...

the players can't do everything. This game will never be hardcore enough (in my opinion) in terms of PKing where it's an adrenaline rush just to go out and farm some lifeless mobs.

At the top it might be player ---><--- player, but underneath it, there has to be a heart of a game. It all has to come up into that. If there aren't levels of pve, tough areas, easy areas... then it will be basically a very simple pvp game.

I believe everything from crafting to roleplay to challenging environments, they all make the game more serious when it comes to pvp because then it means more.

Imagine a game where there are mobs of goats. Or the whole map is just mobs of goats standing around. And you know, dudes can go up to the goats and milk them, some dudes can farm them if they want to... and then every once in awhile they get ganked. I dunno if that's gonna be enough to keep my attention, but that's about what non-pvp feels like atm.

I worry about EE start.

I can't support this thread because it seems demanding. I do support my dude pyro tho. Keep on keepin.

Ryan's focus on the language we are using is appropriate and not quibbling.

See, this is interesting. First it went from pve to language then to quibbling or the absence of..

I'm not going to say people's behavior is right or wrong at this point. It's totally irrelevant.

The situation, as I watched it unfold, and... as I (in game) perceived it and participated in the discussion literally went the path I stated:

First, we were discussing balance. Then the first came in and mentioned, "Hey, well, it seems to me like at some point the enemies just leash back to their camp." haha. And this turned out to be the most terrible thing anyone could have said, because everything was diverted.

I tend to believe they are working on the threat system. At this point, very few people still believe (if they ever did) that this was a standard leash. I think what they were trying to say is this is the mechanic that makes pve too easy (and it's the loss of aggro and return to camp.) Also the sort of stasis they are in as they mindlessly move back.

It may be a complex system that is simple in alpha. OK. It is also very flawed at this point. To the point that a system with much less complexity would be more challenging. We have all identified this behavior. Most of us due to your active, intuitive minds, have figured out how this system works to the point where you can spot an ogre running at you and say, "I don't need to worry because I have gone far enough away and he will turn around before he gets to me."

That's all it is. The uproar at the leash (from the community), I believe is just because it's the leash-like mechanic that is the biggest issue. No matter what the cause is. To say players don't understand the game is insulting. I think we understand a lot of things we can't or don't want to type. Do we understand the programming lines? Probably not, but as the actual game... we understand in most cases. When we don't, we will make a thread or spam general chat in game I DON'T UNDERSTAND!! There is a collection of minds here, dareIsay, that is more( or just as) in tune with the game than the devs. That's why they do this testing. If everyone is starting to come to the same conclusion, to focus on language is the worst possible outcome. It becomes like "That's champagne how can you say it tastes like koolaid?!" And the appropriate fallout on both sides.

Go read about the mongol archers go watch Legolas in LODR's. After that try telling me rooting ranged attack is not "stupid". The only reason it would not be stupid is if it's temporary. If rooting ends up sticking a lot of elven archers are going to look stupid and so will GW and the community that wrecked their own game.

the lack of hit dice and the fact that you aren't hitting for less than 10s on a powerful mob... unless you are a high-spec archer, is the issue.

The damage is too high across the board. The entry damage is too high. So, what wins? The most range. Expect this to hold true in early pvp as well. No reason why everyone shouldn't start with a longbow, if they're trying to win.

1. Saying someone's idea is stupid, while generally serving no constructive purpose, does not necessarily imply the person is stupid. Very intelligent people have stupid ideas all the time, just like everyone else.

2.These are people paying for the development of this game, and are also testers. Show some gratitude (see what I did thar?)

yeah I mean, he already did much work with his survey and also setting up experience tables, I don't think anyone thinks he is stupid. I don't.

I probably did say stupid, though. I believe I expounded to say that it doesn't fix any problem and just makes ranged rooted. it makes them more vulnerable in pvp, but it still allows melee fighters to carry longbows and be powerful ranged players that switch and fight. Of course, that issue could have happened before the change.

My issue is just that this issue has made me realize how much is wrong with the game, mechanically. Imbalanced. It will still work, but it's not close to a final product. I guess what I thought was the math and systems behind the game would be sound by this point and the rest would be bug-fixing and upgrades.

I was caught up in the moment and just surprised at how everyone latched on to the rooted idea as if believing it would fix the game.

I want pve to be hard, too, man. It's not gonna be even with rooted ranged. There should at least be SOME hard pve so that skilled players can have more stuff.

I think, as i have said a long time ago, the bad part about a sandbox is a lot of people think it's okay if they just create a system and let the players make the game. Some players even think that's what they want... I dunno. If mob AI/diversity never gets fixed, that's very sad. This change has quieted the angry mob... for now.

The idea of wasting time with software is a nebulous problem, getting the true balanced system they want could take (made up numbers) 6 months, that's 6 months of us living with an overpowered state. If it takes them 1 month to balance the not as good system to something acceptable then it's ultimately worth the time spent now versus waiting until later. It depends on factors that we certainly can't estimate and they would have a hard time estimating until they've at least discussed a few options internally.

How they should go about it is also really dependent on what the ultimate desired effect actually is: should ranged be inherently weaker to melee in a form of rock, paper, scissors? Should they be perfectly balanced so that the only difference is a mistake or (if applicable) random number coming up in someone's favor? Should they be balanced so that martial melee, martial bows, and magic act as a similar rock, paper, scissor counter?

I'm personally in favor of the idea that melee > archer > magic > melee.

Once the desired effect is decided then you can start debating how to achieve it and the value of each individual action in achieving that outlined balance and if their a nuances when comparing similar types.

Something to remember: balance does not necessarily mean equal, it means fair. Hence an asymmetric system can be balanced when evaluated under ideal circumstances. Homogeneous solutions are fair and balanced plus a lot easier to do, but also pretty boring. I prefer the former over the latter but understand the difficulty in achieving that.

It seems to me like they are planning to launch the game without 'all of the systems in place.' It may not be a balance issue at all once stam is in the game. If they launch it without stam, that is an issue in an of itself.

I think it is something that ranged could possibly not recover from (it may never get changed and just balanced on top of) as well as it sets a bad precedent, fixing a glaring issue in an easy, thoughtless way. A way that changes the game completely for the majority.

@ the dps question, I agree w/ Andius. Not only is opportunity super OP, but even when a wolf gets up on you, you can't do anything with a bow, you have to escape to get the ability to dps again. And I believe that's how it should be, btw. There's no reason to believe someone with a longbow could stand a chance, toe to toe, with a great sword user.

Three notes:

1) Creatures aren't leashing. They do not have a fixed distance where they give up and go home like many MMOs. Instead, they have a threat decay over time, so if they can't get to you to damage you and you're not hitting them, their initial "on awareness" threat dissipates and they go home. Even if you are hitting them, if you're damaging them slowly (I can't remember where the exact DPS breakpoint is), they're losing threat faster than they're gaining it and the eventually give up and go home. If you're damaging them faster than they dissipate threat, they should follow you indefinitely.

The simplest fixes to prevent that kind of thing result in even more undesirable behaviors (e.g., sharing threat such that creatures always dogpile a single player even in a big group, chasing you for hundreds of yards the first time they see you, etc.). More nuanced solutions have to wait until creature behavior is back to the top of the priority list of our programmer than handles the AI and a bunch of other stuff.

2) This is not a PvE-only fix. Ranged currently has a huge advantage in both PvP and PvE because several of the systems to govern it aren't in yet.

3) We're sometimes going to have to make a simple fix because that's what we have time to do now (with the plan to create a better solution later) when the choice is to slightly overcorrect now or leave a glaring problem for an indefinite duration. This change may temporarily make ranged slightly worse than melee, we admit. It was either that or leave ranged as dramatically better than melee--so good that players aren't having fun playing melee--for longer than we were comfortable with.

The aggro range is almost exactly the same every time. If you walk backwards while firing a long bow, you will almost always have an enemy run to right in front of you (assuming it lives) then turn around. At which point, if you wish, you can run behind it and shoot it with arrows until it gets back to the spawn spot. If there was an enemy in the game that could withstand this (very few now that I understand combat), that is what would happen every time.

I have given more thought to this range issue than I probably should have. I do not plan on playing an archer. I may spec one as an alt eventually, but I am just tired of range getting killed in games. it always becomes weak because people can't cope.

You SHOULD be able to gain ground as melee, but as I said before... if ranged is rooted, we could be talking about 2 shots, even while moving backwards, before someone is close enough to you that you can't shoot again. With short bow, it would never be smart to fire unless the person was attacking someone else.

What about when crossbows and guns come into the game? Those will be able to be fired while moving, right? Then, why use a bow?

Stam is an issue. Increase bow stam use while moving. Make it so that people would be better to learn to stop and shoot. Make it a science. Don't force rooting. There are many fixes that, sure, are much harder to implement than a standard URSTUK fix. Even 1 second of root is deadly.

I think a lot of people want to play melee and be successful. Then some archers want to be OP. Personally, I am more weighted toward the melee side because I've always felt it takes more awareness to play melee and a lot of people can lose battles by being bad at melee, because it is basically controlling the line.

This change would make it so if an archer is ever targeted (and if their dps is decent, they will be) they are dead or fleeing. It also doesn't address what I spoke of before, which is what about the melee/ranged hybrid? That would take a huge buff opposed to full range which, as I said, tends to get nerfed into oblivion in pvp games because people cannot correctly balance it.

In this thread, I will explain why I believe PFO needs to implement some form of a cooking/eating system at some point.

The reason why I believe cooking appeals to me in a sandbox is it ties in to two things:

One would be hunger. If you look at your paperdoll and see you are getting hungry and that affects your character's abilities, you will have a new dynamic beyond just keep your health up and gear repaired. This gives a more immersion. Even in the middle of a war, you have to worry about eating.

Two would be character overall nourishment. Seeing your character grow and change depending on what you feed them and how they exert themselves is a very cool mechanic. I don't even imagine it's that hard to put into play, even if you only put in certain visuals (like fat, normal, skinny), and of course that could affect their abilities.

This, coupled with the idea of having to rest (which I feel ties into cooking because they both align with overall character well-being... beyond just health bars), will make PFO a much deeper game. I am sure of it.

Since the game has drop recipes, I don't see why it would be too hard to have some simple cooking recipes to start, maybe some ales and such as well. Then add to it as more things are implemented.

celestialiar wrote:

It seems as though it is very hard to get worthwhile gear. I don't know what's what, per se, but you need a lot of mats to make an item and it can take awhile to get them. I found getting animal drops (like dead prey) was pretty hard. Should ideally get a dead prey with almost every kill. I cleared a whole escalation hex of wolves and got less than 10.

I'd like to see crafting skill incorporated here. On one hand, I shouldn't be able to run past that pack of wolves I just killed and magically hoover up their pelts. On the other hand, I've got a pile of dead wolves at my feet. If I choose to spend the time, I should be able to use a crafting or knowledge skill to try to skin them correctly and maybe get useful hides from them. Heck, I'd bet ogres have thick skin--I want to be able to flay them, too!

Yeah, I agree. The last game I played had carcasses and butchery. Most people disliked that system, but I think it has potential when tweaked.

Even having a tree that allows you to 'gather' better stuff from the dead would be nice. Even new tiers of stuff you can get from animals, the same as for nodes. Would be nice.

celestialiar wrote:

snip ...

If you wanna be Neutral and bring something great to the table, even delivering or going out to meet people with low rep, it'd be a big hit.

... snip

Even a neutral settlement needs figthing power. Be it to better survive while gathering, to get accomplishments or to take over towers.

But it hasn't alluded me as leader of the Emerald Lodge that it would bring something useful to the table as a neutral town.

Are there any settlements who openly declare they will be crafter settlements ?

And knowing Gurrzak I assume he means with the social game that it is even more important for a crafter town as for any other town to play the politics right. You offer something valuable to neighbours but it also makes you dependent on them.

If they block you fighters, wizards, rogues, clerics to train then you have a problem. Getting a wagonload of bows, swords or armour in is likely easier to solve as when a close neighbour closes his border.

It would suck if your settlement got destroyed, but on the other hand, if that happened... say your neighbor decided you were just a weak settlement and didn't need you, so they go in and just blow up everything you have.

You've lost everything, that sucks... but your character still exists. You could then say, "man, my crafting settlement was a fun idea until THESE GUYS came in and messed it up." Then 'take your talents' elsewhere and eventually destroy them using the power of your new guild behind you. Then, start again.

I think people undervalue exp dependent characters. Meaning that you can't really rob a crafter of their power. They are an asset where-ever they are. And if someone gets stupid, then they can become an enemy.

The key is to produce high level stuff. I don't know how high tier stuff can be, in regards to others, though. In some games there is science behind it, where you have to figure stuff out. Since PFO has a more basic system, I don't know how much knowledge and dedication to craft will help.

I hope something is done about the combat delay,I will spend more money on keyboards than on the game. (bad for both me and GW)

Even a correctly functioning 300ms delay is bad.

Well, I agree partially, but they could make it more precise. So that you can always get the hit off (it seemed as though it didn't always register my press, like packet loss), but you'd just have to time it correctly.

So, you won't have to be like.... 11111111111111111111.

I think a system with harder hits and more thought out hits opposed to facerolling the hotbar would be good. But things need to be tweaked more towards that.

Thanks for the explanation, Dario. I'll check that doc out.

DeciusBrutus wrote:

What are the crucial differences between what you think of as SWG and what you think of as WoW paradigms of crafting?

The WoW paradigm is:

- no variance in material locations
- no variance in recipe/material combination
- no variance in created item

The SWG paradigm is:
- different materials, with different qualities
- using different materials in different recipes produces different results
- created item varies, depending upon the quality and type of materials used

I think the one thing I always wanted from crafting was... hmm what I would say is 'mutations.' I've played games with all of the latter traits, but as the game progressed, I feel like it became stale because dudes weren't crafting crazy items. They also weren't failing in crafts.

If someone banged out a legendary-level weapon, I believe that would be very good for the game. Of course, it'd be rare. Most of it would fall under a range of... hmm think of it like Diablo drops.

That would encourage crafting and speccing your crafters to max. Would also give the community something to fight for or chase. Assuming durability is an issue (which, again assuming, would be impacted upon player death as well as use) and that it would be scaled with quality of item, then the game could support a legendary weapon for quite awhile. Then it's like... you go up to a fight and see someone's sword is gold-gleaming and you're like NO. RUN.

It's the little things, for me, that make crafting fun.

https://goblinworks.com/blog/alignment-and-reputation/ gives us the numbers:

* New players start with 1000 reputation
* You gain 1 rep each hour in which you haven't taken a rep hit
* That value increases by 0.25 for every 4 hours of good behavior.
* The hourly reputation bonus caps at 10.

Given those values, how long will it take a new player who takes no reputation hits to reach the cap of 7500?

Answer: 666 hours /played.

ha.

Repsystem that grows without action makes no sense. You should have to do good deeds to get your rep back. Otherwise, you can just bleed it off.