Proto-Shoggoth

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Hello everybody,

I am looking for some advice to make an interesting combat out of a rather unfortunate setup (at least when it comes to encounter design). This is one of the final battles in long going campaign (72nd session over about six years, 12-16 hours each). The party is at level 13 and there are the following characters involved:

- elven transmuter in the body of a human bard

- half elven oracle of life

- dwarven inquisitor of torag

- infernal sorcerer

- a ghaele azata NPC (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/azata/ghaele/ )

- a mystic theurge NPC (CR 12) carrying a bag of holding which is rather important (see below)

- (soulless body of a human bard)

The enemy is a single (thats why I said "unfortunate") lich of 17th or 18th level (I didnt finish his stats so far)

The exposition:

The BBEG of this story arc is a high level lich (wohoo). As the party discovered the secret source of his powers said lich had to risk everything not to lose grasp on his plans. In a last attempt to prevent the party from destroying an atifact which holds the weapon he depends on to conquer kingdoms he casts the spell magic jar through said artifact on the partys bard who held it. My approach here was: when the lich has its soul and therefore phylactery at hand he is able to cast the spell but puts the one thing at danger that keeps him from dying. So the bard fails the save and is possessed. The party tries to negotiate without success and the lich threatens to kill the bard. Thats when the partys wizard does something rather surprising. He himself casts magic jar on the bard and as you probably all know: sometimes the dice tell the best stories. The lich fails its save rolling a natural one (even though his bonus alone exceeded the DC) and his precious soul becomes trapped in the wizards soul jar while the wizard on the other end possesses the bards body.

Now the constellation is rather freaky. Its kind of a stalemate; both fractions remain with a soul of their enemy.

Now the thing is how magic jar works. As both bodies are too far away from their respective soul jars, crushing those instantly sends them to the afterlife. Both parties know the other side is ready to negotiate somehow as otherwise they would have released the souls already but they expect deceit and cheating - somethings on the line here after all.

The PCs figured out they are somehow in the better spot as the lich will be desperate to get back his soul while at the same time the bards sacrifice seems like an option to save their kingdom. They made up a plan and created a demi plane, rather small, greenish and of circular shape where they gathered and invited the lich for a prisoners exchange. They know the lich will come as he needs his soul and the magic jar spell is soon to end. They also install a teleportation trap to only let in the one enemy they want to face and back that up by threatening to kill his soul as soon as someone else enters their demi plane. Quiet a bad spot for the lich to be in I guess. They stored the soul jar containing the liches soul inside a bag of holding, ready to crush it from within, killing the soul as it cannot travel between planes - the extradimensional space inside the bag is insurmountable no matter how close the lich is to the bag of holding.

The scenario:

So the lich enters a small demi plane where the party awaits him and first thing he does is casting a quickened time stop (using a rod) - thats when last session ended (nice cliff hanger!).

While he has lots of allies who could reasonably help him fighting the party, a teleportation trap doesnt allow creatures to enter the fight and even if they manage to bypass the trap the lich might not want them to risk his soul (see exposition).

The lich is buffed up from toes to teeth but now I need to know what

is reasonable for him to do and

makes for an interesting boss fight.

So what are the spells he casts during his rounds of time stop?

My first idea was: Mages Disjunction. I am not exactly sure wht the consequences will be but I think it will dispel the demi plane as soon as time stop is over and it will also render the bag of holding containing his soul useless for its duration and therefore safe. If he combat will be relocated - they will all be spat out somewhere in the astral plane (due to create demi plane) which actually makes for a nice location. But what next? The lich will be largely outnumbered and usually these kind of fights dont work well in pathfinder. I need him to get support somehow, he needs to survive the first rounds of combat and then challenge the party. I have no clue how the battle could go on from there and I'd appreciate every single idea you can come up with. I want this to be remarkable! Also - it doesnt have to end there. It would be rather fine if the lich is able to rescue is soul somehow and flee or even flee without his soul. But at this point a final battle might as well be the perfect ending to this story arc.

Furthermore I would really appreciate some feedback on the whole mess of magic jars in place. I feel like we sticked as close to the rules here as possible but now it seems pretty hard to figure out what a mages disjunction will add here. As well as dispelling the demi plane it will probably end the magic jar spell on all participants. So the magic jar spell cast by the transmuter to trap the liches soul will and and as the respective soul jar is stored in the bag of holding the soul will not be able to get back to its original body (or here: phylactery), right? How could the lich prevent that from happening? Is there a way for him to force his soul out of the bag of holding wjile in time stop? Is there anything he can do about it? And is there something I missed about all those interactings of spells (namely two magic jars, time stop, mages disjunction and create demiplane)? Are there certain spells the lich can use to his advantage for this specific situation?

Thank you a lot in advance! I cannot wait to read your ideas :)

Best wishes,
Wasum

PS: Bonus points if you have an idea how this can evolve the transmuters hidden agenda; the player whants the character to become currupted more and more (he already drifted some steps away from his NG alignment at the campaign start).

PPS: Also bonus points if the following chain of events sticks to the pathfinder rules as close as possible. Not because I love those rules (man, at times this feels so outdated) but because this forms the ontology of the world we agreed to play in and itself has been part of this games narrative


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Hello everybody!

I am playing a campaign based on kingmaker right now, but I'm not going to use books 4 to 6 (as I don't like the plots). The PC are level 9 and have to deal with strange murders in their capital as well as political entanglements these days as the House Orlowski seems to have suspicious plans.

What happened so far and what is different to the plot in the books - not obligatory for answering my questions:
Just a rough-grained summary: Restov was ruled by Jomani Surtowa, mayor of the city and loyal to the king Noleski. In times of riots (as aldori swordlords wanted to reclaim power in Restov) his position was questioned he sent out adventurers to the greenbelt in order to stabilize his power by taming the wilderness in the south.
The players then played the first book, killing the staglord and eventually establishing their first city right on the ruins of his fortress - Narlgaard. Few days before the coronation he dies to a Wright - Turalyn Baldor the Stillborn.

They then start building up their nation, make friends with werewolf mercenaries and find themselves in a planar adventure that after betrayal leads them to the fellnight realm (based on the respective module), rescuing Roswen the awakened goldfish witch and shutting off the arcane engines that connects the demiplane to the narlmarshes (I used the "Fangwood Keep" instead of the one found there in the second book of the AP.

Right after that Noleski Surtowa, king of brevoy, marries Elana Lebeda and announces that Restov shall again be ruled by the aldori swordlords - which costs Jomani Surtowa, sponsor of the PC, his job.

Meanwhile Raifs, the father of the staglord and Hragulka started to gather allies in order to defeat those humans penetrating their world. More threads arise within their boarders, riots of mine workers caused by some mysterious stranger, a bonedevil assaulting their high priest and killing dozens of guards and conflicts within the high council. Another PC dies in the very same tomb Turalyn did a year earlier. Far deeper in old catacombs of ancient cyclops. This is also where the PC defeat a normous costruct guardian who protected a long forgotten grave. An undead cyclops then rises from this very tomb and flees as fast as he can. He will later awake Vordakai, the lich king of cyclops.

This is the point where my questions below will connect.

A lot of stuff happens. An army of trolls appears right in the center of Narlgaard, their capital, and destroy a huge part of the town as well as hundrets of citizens. They can fight back the attack but the damage is great and the trolls appear to have some kind of great magic in their support. Suspicious. The players then notice that the trolls gave up their bond to Raifs, killed him and most of their allies. When the PCs enter a new but empty stronghold of Hragulkas troops they find a cave leading to a valley where they find an entrance to old caves - "The Rift" (You can goolge for the "rift" and the "warrens" maps, which I combined - they belong to the most amaging dungeon maps I ever used!) where they not only find Hragulka and his fellow trolls but also the entrance to a newborn underground keep of duergars. The battles are long and tough but finally the PCs manage to kill the high circle of the enclave - three powerful duergar spellcasters and recover an artifact foliant of droskar.

Back in their capital the recession kicks in. The damage is terrible but slowly the young nation starts to recover.

This is where my game is right now the next event will be a marriage between a PC (elven wizard) and Mina Lodowka, princess of House Lodowka.

What I want to do is make Vordakai a far more fleshed out villain than he is in the actual book. His tactics are so poor as written that I wouldn't want to waste and sacrifice a freaking lich for a little dungeoncrawl.

Thats why I thought about what he would do from the moment he is woken up by his champion that the PC released in the ancient cyclops tomb.

He has this crazy powerful artifact in his head which he wants to make best use of:
Oculus of Abaddon
Minor Artifact

Category:
eyewear
Description:
An oculus of Abaddon appears as a sphere of clear crystal that contains a black void at its center. When held, the oculus feels warm to the touch and fills the holder with a sudden desire to pluck out an eye and place the oculus within the socket—this causes 1d8 points of damage, 1 point of bleed damage, and 2 points of Constitution damage. Once placed in an eye socket, the oculus can only be removed by ripping it free (causing the same amount of damage as the initial plucking). An oculus placed in an empty eye socket immediately heals all damage caused by plucking the previous eye out. Once placed, an oculus allows its new owner to utilize its powers, as listed below.

Darkvision to a range of 120 feet (constant)
True seeing once per day as a free action
Greater Scrying three times per day
Planar Binding once per week (only to summmon natives of Abaddon)
Familiar farsight at will
The oculus of Abaddon’s greatest power, though, is its haunting beckon. This ability is usable once per year, and allows the user to manipulate the minds of a huge number of targets, provided that the end goal of the manipulation is a tragic or otherwise horrific fate for those being manipulated. This functions as mass charm monster, but with a range of 1 mile, and establishes a telepathic link between the caster and all minds in that area. The effects are still language- dependant despite this telepathy—creatures without the ability to understand language (typically, creatures with an Intelligence score of 2 or lower) are unaffected. All other creatures are automatically affected unless they have 6 or more HD, in which case they gain a DC 22 Will save to resist the effects. Spell resistance applies regardless of HD.

The oculus of Abaddon is powerfully neutral evil and possesses a limited and hateful intellect of its own. while not capable of communicating directly with its owner, it refuses to activate its powers for any user who is not neutral evil.

But first he needs information - the most important good for him in the early and even more so in the later stages of his rise. Luckily his Aculus allows him to scy a lot and use his familiar for scouting the neighbourhood. He spots Varnhold, he spots the realms of my PC and he spots Brevoy as well as Mivon. A lot has changed within the past thousands of years. Together with his champion he wakes up all other cyclops buried in this very tomb (for which I use a slightly recolored map of Snurres Hall of the Fire Giant King) - enough to do some mining at least. He uses spells and undead workers to produce salt and jewelery - he needs money to accomplish further goals he set up. So while his minions are mining he scries and scries and scries. His raven travelling through the surrounding countries, listenig to important nobles, lords and ladies. He gets to know secrets, for example that the Orlowskis plan to attack the Lands of House Lodowka (an elven wizard PC is just about to marry the princess of House Lodowka) so thats a good point to start. He visits Lord Orlowski in human form (he uses Greater Magic Aura and a greater Hat of Disguise to appear as humen without magic properties) and convinces him that he wants to buy weapons for wars in the south so he makes him a great offer. He will fund the war against the Lodowkas if the Orlowskis provide more weapons he can transport to the south.
The Orlowskis will then ask Jomani Surtowa who was a broken man ever since he lost his reign over Restov to make a deal with the dwarves in the Highdelve. They should fabricate weapons for their war against the Lodowkas as well as weapons for Vordakai (who needs them as he will have to equip an undead army later on) - all in the name of House Surtowa.

For Vordakai this is perfect as he wants to use the war in the north as distraction and also profits from weapons for his own units.

Right after the deal is made he uses his artifact for the first time. He charms the population of Varnburg in order to take their (rather empty) treasueries and to have more workers for his plans. There is a lot of stuff he needs to prepare.
He gets mercenaries in Mivon who will deal with the transportation of the weapons from Brevoy.
He now has one year of time to get ready for the next step in his plan.

At this point I might need your help. He now has a couple of undeads, a lot of information and ~200 citizens from varnhold he turns into undead (maybe one or two intelligent ones as he needs help organizing his upcoming rulership). He also started to contact other evil enteties around to find some allies or vassels.

A year later when the war between Orlowskis and Lodowkas has probably started - according to his plans - he wants to use the Oculus of Abaddon for a second time. But now he's aiming for Restov.

I did some calculations on the distribution of CR among the citizens and the formula I thought looks plausible was an exponential function, proportional to EXP(-[HD of citizen]/1,25) which resulted in ~19.900 of the 20.000 inhabitants being charmed without getting a save. That sounds like a lot but I wanted to have a rather steep distribution. Most of the remaining citizens won't make their save so that I guess 20-30 of them being able to resist the artifact.

Now what? He has almost 20.000 humanoids under his control for 20 days. What does he do? Does he move them to his "base"? Will he kill them to raise them as undead? That seems hard to handle. He wont be able to feed so many people at all so he probably needs to kill them. That's a truely scary scenario. What does he do with those that resisted the charm? What will those who resisted the charm do anyway? Some might be able to use spells to stop several of the charmed... but I'm not sure how to think that through. What's going to happen afterwards? Would it be smart to even use the artifact? He could take every single coin from that city - not too bad. Could he use the structures? Should he leave the city abandoned? Can he still conceal whats going on? How does he move those people? Just have them walk two hundred miles?

And what would he need to tho in the previous year in order to prepare for that event?

This is how far I am right now. I also want him to get some help from Abaddon as his artifact is closely tied to this plane. He will get some Divs and Daemons to lead his armies because why not. He will also get an army of Urdefhans as I feel like this would suit him really good and is plausible.

I'm open to any kind of idea or critique - the more detailed the better. I want his plans to suit a highly intelligent ancient wizard with great knowledge and power so it should make sense all through and result in a subtly rising threat establishing in the very east of my PCs nation.

Thank you so much in advance,

Wasum


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Google: "pf summoner powerful"

Might be faster than a thread;)


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Thanks for the advice so far!

I will definitly use some of those ideas.

Now I'm especially curious on how to pace this scenario.

How can I decide when and how often the PCs find themself in a special situation? At what pace will they encounter things o their way to said tower?


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Hello everybody!

I want to generate an intense atmosphere of danger in the next session of my current campaign.
Last session the 7th level PCs entered the realm of an evil fey and managed to stay unnoticed for a while. When they decided to use "Secure Shelter" for resting their shelter for the night was spotted by fey units and they surrounded the bulding until reenforcements arrive. Inbetween the PCs developed an escape plan and actually managed to flee - 3 of them teleported out, the druid left in eagle form, invisible, and the alchemist tried to escape invisible as well but is chased by a Babau, who was summoned by an antagonist to shut down the invisibility. Now the Dimension Door they used to teleport has no huge range and therefore they are not out of danger. The session ended with them regrouping close about 400 m away with the alchemist still being chased by the Babau (who will stay whole 10 Minutes as it was summoned by a summoner).
The PCs want to reach the tower of said evil fey queen which is about 30 km away. As they dont have means of fast travel (other than wildhape of the druid) this will take them at least two days, more if they actaully stealth. I want those days to be intense. I want them to feel hunted, with creatures looking for them and constant thread of being outnumbered.

Do you have recommandations on how to design such a scenario? I'd really appreciate every single idea you can contribute :)

Wasum


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Ever heard of Stormwind Fallacy?


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Well if you really agreed the post you quoted you wouldn't have resurrected this thread after the debate has been put to rest 3 years ago...


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I think your GM will tell you which way the game uses to destribute abilizy scores. Point buy is the most favored option because it's fair. You will see variation for sure, it lets you customize what your character is good at - you can think of a background and then distribute your points as you see them fit. Dice on the other hand may lead to very unbalanced groups where on player steamrolls encounger because he got superior stats while another one wont even be able to play what he wanted to play because he doesnt have the attributes to do so.


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i'd also say go for touch spell sneak attack. You can easily use twf for those if you want to and it also makes you very versatile as soon as you get some wands and stuff.

Another option would be a dex to damage sap master build. Combine with scout to get off one devastating strike per round while keeping good AC. You need the blade of mercy trait though.

Third one is THF with something like a longhammer, add vital strike and sap feats, maybe even enforcer for debuffing fun and be very mobile while striking really hard each round... less defense than going dex based but you can pick up power attack for sweet amounts of damage.


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I wish I could have observed those conversations you had with your GM. I absolutely cannot imagine how that took place....

"Can I play a character that is almost invincible, potentially breaking the campaign unless the enemies you throw at us have that one feat from another game? Well, it's the same game I picked that template from."
"Sure, go ahead - that sounds reasonable!"

Later...

"I feel like my character is too strong. You have to bend the rules in order to challenge me and therefore the whole group. You are not using that feat, mindsense, at all and I do not enjoy that abilities my character obtained from rules of another game are rendered useless. Therefore I want to rebuild him in a way it merges to the rules of the game we actually play and doesnt outshine other characters while giving you the opportunity to throw regular encounters at the group without me stomping them all."
"Mhh... naaay, that does not at all sound reasonable, I want you to stick to the character you built, even though you used rules from star wars D20 or whatever game that was and broke the campaign so far because otherwise I might lose immersion."

Another occasion...

"Hey! I found that spiked chain in Pathfinder RPG too weak, so I checked other versions of other games and - you wouldnt believe - in D&D3.5 the spiked chain was broken as fcuk! Hence I assumed it should be allowed in our game - here's my character sheet!"
"I don't know... that looks kinda unbalanced."
"Oh, well then, here's a way to extend my reach even further! Combining stuff from different games allows me to make this character even more powerful, let me fix that character sheet right quick!"


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It's cool, not OP.

ACG will provide way more difficulties towards balancing than UM and UC. If ACG is fine for you, the latter should'nt be a problem.


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The only "serious pain" a core rogue delivers hits its player.


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the advantage of prepared casters is that they are strong no matter what you do and you can find out how to effectivly play them throughput your career. You just cant really do anything wrong. On the other hand those need players who know it takes some bookkeeping and time investment due to the sheer number of spells.

Spontaneous caster are easier to play but harder to build. You will have to help them there as you can easily mess up one of those really easily.


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In highschool you for sure learned how to calculate expectancy values. The curricula of most countries include that around 10th grade.

And that is actually all you need to calculate DPR. Also, you dont need excel-sheets or something like that to do so as it contains only simple multiplications.

No need to have studied math at all - just visiting highschool lets you know how to do it, so no need to be deterred :D


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Oracle is a 9th level caster and summoner is 6th level on steroids (dont even want to think of master summoner in such a setting) - I'd rething those two.


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....


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Why dont you just take 15 minutes and make up just right the build you want to have?


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Seriously?


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There is no reason why you couldnt take a monster-feat you qualify for. They are called monster feats because usually monsters qualify for those.

You dont need some kind of reputation to gain access to prestige classes, do you?


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We once had a wand of mount named "rogue"


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Noone cares how much fun people have playing rogues. We all know its possible to enjoy playing a rogue in certain games and groups. That has just nothing to do with the question why the rogue is subpar. He definitly is, no matter whether you care or not or enjoy playing rogues more than anything else. This topic appearently deals with the weak mechanics of the rogue class and not with amazing rogue-fun in some homegames, not with rogues who were viable in unoptimized groups an not with CRB-only games which try to make all other classes weaker in order to maintain a reason for playing rogues. Its about nothen but the mechanics of that class - the rogue - compared to other classes mechanics and why it is as "subpar" as it is.

And I know that people dont like to hear that, but this topic is not about fun. its about game design, predictable problems that may occur due to weak balancing regarding how the classes perform.

Honestly, I think "just have fun with that class, its possible" is an answer full of ignorance to the vital spot of this annoying discussion that comes up again and again on therse boards and always inspires some people on here to explain "us" how this game is meant to be played....

Sorry for that rant, but I'm really tired by this.


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Yea, sure, but that has nothing to do with the rogue mechanics. You could have done the same as commoner, bard, ranger or awakened sheep (skill focus sleight of hand, some item to pimp dex and the SoH and there you go).

The thing is not that you cant have fun, the problem is that the rogue mechnics are just bad and there is no justification why. I could enjoy playing tennis with a baseball bat as well if my goal isnt to hit the ball but talk to the referee about how weather is in cologne. But some people wanna get that freaking ball over the net and therefore struggle when holding a rogue in their hand who isnt even close to a bat.


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Still this would weaken martials.


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The problem with the rogue-class is that it is not the best way to build a rogue.
If you have several classes, all of them covering the "rogue" theme completely (keep in mind, classes are just mechanical constructs, what your chrarakter is like has nothing to do with its class - the class just provides different abilities) then there is no real reason to play an actual rogue. There is no advantage the rogue-class has over some other classes in playing the "sneaky role".
If you renamed the bard, the ranger and the rogue "class 1", "class 2" and "class 3" and someone wanted to play a rogue-like charakter then - after checking out and understanding those three mechanical bases he can use for his charakter, I highly doubt someone who has understood the mechanics of the game (e.g. by finding the trait that gives trapfinding - so you dont even have to lose spells as ranger) would pick "class 3" - the actual rogue.
The only thing it provides over the other classes is SA and yea, thats an incombat ability that is - combined with the rest of the mechanical construct "rogue" - not worth picking the class over one of the others.
Honestly I'd predict if the class would not be named "rogue" it would not be played much at all and if so then by those who do not understand that sneak attack is not the best way to DPR (even though there are some optimized ways to make efficient use of SA, touch-rogue, sap adept scout and so on).

But most people see the image and the description of the rogue class and therefor think (understandably) this is the class they want to play in order to get that bad ass backstabber. So in case you want to make the class more popular, just copy description and layout of the rogue page of the crb and combine with the one for rangers. people will start playing rangers all of a sudden.


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There should be a bot identifying these threads, posting a link to an older one and then closing them. That would save a lot of people a lot of time.

edit: Another way would be a "the rogue issue"-sticky.


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Dex based lore warden with 1 level of maneuver master using dervish dance + dirty tricks. Great AC, great saves, sky high CMB, okay damage, you can even add trip to your list and easily control the battlefield. Also you get a lot of skillpoints for a fighter.

Could also be pulled of with strenght - less defense, more damage.

Another thing could be Pala 2, Sorc 3, Dragon Disciple 8 wielding a greatsword. good defense, amazing offense, spells. More interessting than EK builds.

What about Magus? Just combine those two worlds, cast useful spells, hit it with your sword.

Or - one of my favorites - play an Oracle of battle, dip 2 levels of Paladin and become a melee beast while still having those spells.

Sword and Board Ranger - great damage, flexibility, defense, yey.

Some Pathfinder Chronicler stuff with UMD as his ability to have almost any item available when he needs it is so close to swiss knife.

Also, eldritch heritage is always an amazing way to make your melees more interesting - and there really are some great picks!


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or when sundered!

Maneuvers kill archers most of the time. Also the shape of the battlefield can help. Give enemies ways to get cover while closing up.

Also, smoke sticks can prevent archers from fullattacking - cheap, easy to use and hard to protect against:)


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Hey there!

I am looking for character concepts that are competetiv in optimized game but use unusual ways to deal with their problems.

You know - other than beatung things up with falcata or falchion, other than pit spells and shocking grasp spellstrike action... just things that do not come up often as main schtick of a character.

Just for example: I had that sorcerer who used some pimped up enervation action to defeat his enemies or another one who used fear effects and phantasmal killer.

Maybe a character who effectivly uses poison to kill his enemies? Or a hydraulicnpush sorcerer with bullrush feats and high CL?

I somehow feel like I kinda fail at explaining what exactly I am looking for, but maybe you have an idea and can provide some ideas:)


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Hello there!

I want to build a character based on the fishmen in "One Piece". I'm not sure which way to go, but I probably want him to be a martial artist (-> Fishmen Karate) and maybe even adopt their abilities to fight using water somehow. And he should be kinda charismatic of course!

I'm using a 20pb and about all the paizo-sources available.

Oh and I already thought about making him a mysterious stranger but then it would be even more difficult to implement the fishmen karate thing...

Well, I'd be really glad to get some advice there!

Wasum


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You really have to differentiate between experiences, subjectiv impression and awesome home party gaming on one hand and the mechanics on the other hand. Sure, there are circumstances when it might be fun to play soccer high heels, but that should never be included in the rules of the game or be preached as the right way to do it.


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Sorry for quoting myself but it fits in both threadsd:

Wasum wrote:

The problem with the rogue-class is that it is not the best way to build a rogue.

If you have several classes, all of them covering the "rogue" theme completely (keep in mind, classes are just mechanical constructs, what your chrarakter is like has nothing to do with its class - the class just provides different abilities) then there is no real reason to play an actual rogue. There is no advantage the rogue-class has over some other classes in playing the "sneaky role".

If you renamed the bard, the ranger and the rogue "class 1", "class 2" and "class 3" and someone wanted to play a rogue-like charakter then - after checking out and understanding those three mechanical bases he can use for his charakter, I highly doubt someone who has understood the mechanics of the game would pick "class 3" - the actual rogue.

The only thing it provides over the other classes is SA and yea, thats an incombat ability that is - combined with the rest of the mechanical construct "rogue" - not worth picking the class over one of the others.

Honestly I'd predict if the class would not be named "rogue" it would not be played much at all and if so then by those who do not understand that sneak attack is not the best way to DPR (excluding those really tough optimized rogue-builds, especially those sap-THF-ones, but I feel like thise are not played that much anyway, even though I think its probably the best to do with your rogue).


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Hey there!

I don't know whether this is going to work, but after some research I recognized there is no thread like this one yet.

My idea here is to post creative, special and challenging encounters that others can use in their games. Making up encounters is not easy and requires a lot of preparation (even though there already are a couple of great guidelines of how to do so), so I'm pretty sure such a thread - if filled with the most exciting battles, skill challenges, traps or whatever you made up in your games - will find use in many campaigns.

To help readers on whether a posted encounter may be implemented in their current scenario we should mention some important aspects:

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Summary: ("Party fights small mosquitos in mouth of colossal frog while trying not to be swallowed")

CR of the encounter:

Typ of encounter: (Is it a boss fight, a skill challenge or some mini game?)

Background: (For what party did you initially create the encounter, what was the intention?)

Encounter: (What exactly does it look like? What creatures did you use, what tactics? Just all the details!)

Comment: (How did your group get through the encounter? What might be a problem? What else should be mentioned?)

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I really hope to find some people filling this thread with great ideas! I will do so as soon as I get home as I have some cool encounters that might be interesting for some of you:)

This might really help lots of GMs or at least can provide some inspiration! I know we have a huge number of creative heads on these boards, so there's no excuse:)

Wasum


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Thug and Scout Archetype, Earthbreaker, Endorcer, Sap Adept, Sap Master, Vital Strike, Power Attack, Furious Focus.
Offensive Defense.

Fun:]


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To become mammoth rider!


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You forgot that size affects intimidate-checks!


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I second maneuver master monk


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Cool


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That sounds like you should check his build.


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Its not overpowered, everything you mentioned is pretty easy to achieve with some optimization. Further this depends on the class, build, scores and so on anyway, so just these dates are not saying that much but no its not overpowered.


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The advantage of the cabalist is that you wouldnt have to dip another class, lose casting progression and bab, so actually that would be really neat for a dd-build. But 3pp suck and straight magus is stronger than a dd dipping one anyway.


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I'd say find grown ups to play with, but that would probably considered rude, so I'll just not say anything.


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And even if the eagles couldnt have brought them to onto the mountain - they could have brought them to mordor


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Yea, because melee classes are just way too strong in pathfinder!


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Druid?


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Why dont you make him empyral sorcerer? Honestly having 4 cha less than any similar concept kinda sucks. Especially because you rely on high save DCs...


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Hello there!

Well first: In Pathfinder HD means something like level. A druid of level 8 has 8HD because he hitpoints of 8 dice-rolls (well, 7 assuming the first one is always maximum)

So when an animal companion starts with 2 HD it kind of is level 2. when you look at the BAB of a druid you will see he's at +1 there as well.

Now when the companion has 3HD it gained a level, so you have to toll one die to determin how many hitpoints it adds to its total. Sometimes companions do not gain a level when the druid gains one. Thats when the HD in that table does not change. The companion does not gain new hitpoints or similar level dependent stuff (like feats, stat boosts or saving throw increases)

In the end it caps at 16 HD. when you compare it to the druid table you will see that the druid has a BAB of 12 at level 16, so when the druid is level 20 the animal companion has 16 HD (=is level 16) and the BAB of a level 16 druid: 12.

Claws and bites are primary natural attacks. That means all of them are done at full BAB and all of them add the full strength modifier to damage.

Rake means that as soon as the companion grapples (what it can always do, check the rules for a grapple maneuver) it can deliver these rake attacks.
In addition to that a big cat has the grab special attack that allows to start a grapple as free action after you hit with the appropriate natural attack.

Further you can also use the rake special attack when using the allmighty pounce special attack. Then you end up having 5 attacks at full attackbonus and strenth bonus to damage after a charge.

Wasum!


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You should add that these encounters have to be challenging enough to need spending resources - easy encounters can be won without burning a gishs resources. The fighter shines when he's facing a lot of pretty hard encounters. And as I said - thats rarely the case.


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The thing is most of the time its way more important to be able to spike than to do reliable constant damage. Maybe there are campaigns where this is useful, but looking at all the AP's there is none where the ability to regulate your power isnt superior. Being able to nova somehow is just exactly what is needed in hard fights while constant high damage is not really necessary in the easier battles.


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Dont add penalties for low HP. This will completly mess up the game balance.


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Accept it as it is. Where's the problem with description? The T-Rex falls in lava, and swims back to the edge, climbs out with an acrobatic check (those small arm can perform heck of a move) and then bites the evil halfling barbarian who seems to take the hit without any troubles and even makes his grapple check to not be grabbed in that mouth that alone is 4 times bigger than him.

Thats D&D - maybe you should consider a different game system without hitpoint mechanics if you cant handle it.

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