I'm going to withdraw the character then. His concept won't work with those sources.
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Here's Vash, reposting from the other thread. Please let me know what you think.
This is a character who was made for another Harrowing game that died young. His backstory is simple. He was the bodyguard of the sage who was wanting to study the mysterious deck. They both got sucked in and seperated. Vash is trying to find his boss. Mechanics-wise, Vash is an effective protector for casters and has an impressive interrupt-and-retaliate combat style. Please let me know what you think.
Still here.
I'm fine with moving forward with a slightly smaller party.
Vash starts walking forward, an exasperated look on his face.
I'm glad. He's a lot of fun to write. :)
Vash blinks and then starts laughing as he walks down the isle toward the chair-balancer. "Hey chair face! We're here to talk to the ringmaster. And by talk I mean beat like a rented gong. Maybe you want to save yourself and point us in the right direction?"
Don't worry about it. Life does that sometimes.
Awesome. :)
A game is not a privilege and I'm a patient guy. Typo?
Try not to be so hard on yourself. You don't owe us a game. We're privileged that you'd even want to run one for us. As excited as we are to be playing, we all understand that real life takes precedence, especially where mental health is concerned. It may be that some players out there would drop out of a game because its posting rate is sporadic. I'm not one of them. The game hasn't been going very long, but I suspect most of the others in the game aren't like that either. So, if the majority of us are in it for the long haul, that means there's no pressure on you. You post when you are able to, when the game makes you happy like it's supposed to. When it's too much for you, don't worry about it. We all understand.
A rare case of projectile leprosy?
Checking in. Lexi must be busy lately.
Vash glances back to the crowd and to the entryway. It may have been a jest, but it looked like Vash had already considered his odds. "The entrance is a bottleneck. If the crowd decides to get in on the show, we pull them back to there and build a wall out of their bodies until they get the hint."
Vash scratched his face, then scowled when he saw the white paint on his fingers. Kicking the tengu again for good measure he wrenched the awful wig off his head and threw it down on the pathetic bird-man, then stomped off to find a horse trough to wash the clown makeup off his face. Tearing the remnants of the multi-colored clown suit off, he dried his face with it and tossed it aside. When he came back he actually cut a fairly impressive figure. His armor was styled after a desert snake. His left arm was bare to the shoulder showing off a corded, lanky frame. His right arm was fully armored all the way down, ending in an elaborate gauntlet that made his hand look like a snake's head. His belt was made to look like a serpent that wound over his shoulder and around his waist to try to eat it's own tail. It was covered in pouches and fang-like throwing blades. At the small of his back was a long snake-handled knife. Apparently Vash had a theme going. Without the ridiculous makeup and wig, his skin was dusky and his head was shaved. He looked like he spent a lot of time in the sun. His eyes were a very pale brown, sort of the color of honey or sand. "Shall we then?" he said, looking off toward the big top tent.
Sidetracked by the Chef's story, Vash had paused mid introduction to listen. He nodded at the realization that they were all in this together if they wanted to get home. "Good. That gives me even more reason to go see the Ringmaster. I'm not much for bargaining though. That means he would be getting something beneficial out of me. There ain't nothin I want to give him that could be confused for 'beneficial'." Turning to face Dert, he extended his ungauntleted hand and said "Name's Vash. I like the way you pound crow."
Vash raises an eyebrow. "What the heck does standing on trees have to do with fighting?"
"You wouldn't like the lessons. I sure didn't." Vash says with a grin.
"Works for me." Vash says with a shrug. "I appropriate you getting me out of the cage, but I need to find my boss, and the Ringmaster is the last person I know of that saw him. I'm heading for that tent."
"Ohyeah, I know that bastard. He seemed all nice at first, invited us to the show, called us down for the whole audience participation thing. Fun stuff. Everything went to hell when I asked him why his hands were on backwards though. It was like a dream that turns into a nightmare. All of a sudden he was all lizard-headed with this big long face full of teeth and... things get... cloudy after that. I remember thinking it would be a really good idea to put on a clown costume and be a part of the show for some reasons that don't make a lick of sense now. Then he wanted me to be a lion-tamer, but everything was backwards. That damn lion spent the whole time taming me. After the show they locked me up in the lion's cage. Those damn birds have been tormenting me when they got bored ever since, and I got no idea what happened to Mel."
Not quite realizing a spell was even cast, Vash nods. "Considering what he just saved you from, he's probably the closest thing to a friend you got right now, bird."
"Hey, that works too. I didn't know those tricks were an option. Shame. This little bastard really deserves a few good beatings." he says, glaring at the tengu.
"I'm glad you let me out too. Thanks." Vash said. Pausing a moment he reached out and touched the man he was speaking with, prodding him in the chest. "Hmm. Guess you're real after all." Picking up the Tengu, he looked into it's beady eyes. "I don't think so. This conversation is going to be short." Giving it a shake, he said "I'm going to ask it where my client is, and it's going to answer. If it doesn't, I'm going to pound it into a pile of squawking pain, and then ask again when it wakes up." Giving it a little shake to make sure he had it's attention, he continued. "I'm willing to repeat the process for as long as it takes to get some answers, so you might just want to tell me what I want to know right now. It'll save me the time it takes to pound you." "So where is he? What did you do with him?"
Vash's alignment is Loyal-Cranky.
Vash pauses a moment in his abuse of the Tengu and stares at the man near him's sudden transformation into a frightening dragon-man-thing that disembowels the sleeping cartoon lion. He shakes his head in amazement. Note to self: Do not piss off that guy... Then he turns back to the pathetic pile of feathers under his foot.
Vash shifts his weight again and the cobra-hood shield on his arm closes along his arm His movements suddenly roll forward to short, blindingly fast motions. He kicks the bird's weapon out of his hand and steps to end up with a foot on the bird's chest.
"It's time for some answers..."
And since Skirmisher says the target is "treated as though Flat Footed" for sneak attack purposes... Nasty!
Looks like it's my turn. Lexi, can I get a partial round resolution so I know which Tengus are still standing around me?
I think that's the Sap Master feat chain. It doubles non-lethal snake attack dice.
Ah, gotcha. So you get sneak attack, but the target's AC isn't actually compromised. Got it.
Hey Dert- I noticed your attack is listed "Against Flat Footed". I'm curious how you're getting that without Feinting. I don't play rogues very often, so Im not as up to snuff on their abilities.
I think the lowest level version is Human Master of Many Styles 2/Fighter 1 That gets all 3 Crane style feats (by virtue of the MoMS being able to ignore style feat prereqs) and both Bodyguard feats. That gives you the basics. After that you just stack on synergy feats. The next set I'm going for is the Archon style feats (at 12 level, this build gets even more heinous) But for true game break goodness, have two characters take this build, but replace a couple of the Trip feats with Paired Opportunists, Butterfly Sting and Seize the Moment. At that point every encounter turns into an angry mosh pit. (feel free to steal the build for a pair of truly terrifying NPC bodyguards for your next BBEG)
Does that cover everything?
Vash's Combo Breakdown: It's come up a couple times, so I figured I'd post this to clear the air. I'm pretty sure all the rules work the way I've been playing them. Lexi is, of course, the final arbitrator. In Harm's Way triggers off of Bodyguard, allowing me to make myself the target of an attack aimed at an adjacent ally if that ally is subject to an Aid Another bonus from me. Bodyguard lets me use an AoO to give an Aid Another bonus to an Ally's AC when they are attacked. Using Aid Another requires I hit an AC of 10. Because there are no fumble rules in Pathfinder I cannot fail this check. (I'm happy to roll the AC 10 attack roll if Lexi wants me to though) The rules on resolving In Harm's Way are a bit unclear, but the consensus seems to be that the attack is resolved against me, using my defenses, including DR, energy resistance, uncanny dodge and those sorts of abilities. In the case of attacks that don't deal normal damage, like poisons or touch spells, my saves are used, not the original target's. (See this thread for an amusing in depth analysis) Whether or not the attack is resolved against my AC is ambiguous. (your call, Lexi. I'm fine with either. If my AC comes into play, Crane Wing won't be usable as often, but Snake Style will.) Because my non-AC defenses come into play, that means Crane Wing is applicable when the re-targeted attack hits me.
"you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you." The attack would hit me normally and deal damage, but I deflect it, so it deals no damage. Crane Riposte gives me an AoO when Crane Wing is successful. That AoO can be used to make an Unarmed Strike, or any combat maneuver that can be used in place of an attack (including Trip). If I make a successful trip I (and everyone else threatening the tripped character) gets an AoO from Greater Trip. This attack happens upon successfully beating the character's CMD, regardless of if they actually fall over. It is figured against their standing armor class (it happens before they fall). This is important because there are a few odd effects that cause trip attempts but don't actually render a creature prone) I also get an AoO from Vicious Stomp, which is figured against the target's Prone AC, after they fall. All told, this uses up 3 Attacks of Opportunity. I did a lot of research putting this build together. If anyone thinks I messed up any of the rules, please link me to a source.
Vash doesn't have Flurry. It's one of those things I lost for being a Master of Many Styles. I'm ok with it though, because I wear armor and wouldn't get to use it anyway.
Adding more monsters is generally the way to go, I agree. Unfortunately that doesn't solve the problem of larger parties steamrolling big-bads if they manage to isolate them. It's tough to make individual monsters tougher in the right ways without making them unbalanced in others.
Don't want to derail the thread too much, so- Rant about CR System and Large Groups:
I've run into this problem in more than one game, as both a player and a GM. I've looked into it a lot. Here's what I've found- The game is built and balanced around a 4 person party. What Challenge Rating X means is "this creature is an average challenge for a character of level X." Larger groups have more actions per round. That means more attacks and more damage. Large parties need to face monsters with more hit points. At first glance, it seems like picking a higher CR monster is the answer to the problem because higher CR monsters have more hit points (because they have more hit dice) And that is where the problem comes from. A lot more than just hit points are tied to Hit Dice. If all the party runs into are CR+3 to CR+5 creatures, that means that all the enemy ability DCs are going to be practically impossible to resist. Their saves are going to be so high that they will almost never be fully effected by PC abilities. Their AC is going to be so high that only full bab classes have a chance of hitting them. Their damage is going to be high enough that a full attack will murder any class with D6 or D8 hit points. Players will have to start compensating by concentrating on "no save" effects and/or buffs. They'll also spend a lot more time summoning, because they know that they can't afford to ever be hit and need more meat shields. That slows play down a lot. Every fight becomes varying degrees of "how many debuffs can we stack on so that our abilities work on this thing" Basically, the only thing pitting high CR creatures against large groups fixes is the Hit Point issue. Everything else becomes even more of a problem.
My Solution: The game is built around a party that is comprised of two Melee characters (each capable of dealing 1/4 to 3/4 of a CR equivalent creature's HP in one attack), one support class (buffer/debuffer/controller, specializing creating or mitigating weaknesses and/or stacking the deck in the PC's favor) and one Primary Caster (save-or-die/AoE focused) The combination of Hit Points, AC and Saves is designed to be a challenge for that group make up. Larger groups have to be compensated appropriately. For every additional Primary Melee increase all monster HP by 50%. For every additional Support class increase monster Saving Throws and Armor Class by 2. For every additional Primary Caster add one monster of party-equivalent CR, or a combination of lesser CR creatures that add up to CR equal to the party's average level. This system isn't a perfect fix because things still need to be tailored to the specifics of the party, but it's pretty good for a quick fix to the problems large party's present.
Is your party extra large? Is your GM having you fight extra-high CR creatures to compensate? If that's the case, I feel for you. You might consider telling your GM that there are easier and better ways of compensating for large party size. Your GM might not realize that they are seriously crippling most classes by doing it that way.
Your home game group will love you for correcting them on this. :)
I can see where the confusion would come from. Those are the two conditions that grant Sneak Attack damage.
Flanking doesn't cause you to be flat footed. It just gives enemies a +2 bonus to hit you, and grants sneak attack damage.
It's official. This is my favorite combat build ever. Vash is a monster.
After weaving away from the attack aimed at him, Vash again steps in the way of the attack meant for Sydney. This time he parries it with a condescending backhanded slap of the blade and then a wrist grab that yanks the tengu off balance and into a brutal knee-stomp combination as the feathered clown falls.
"Keep your feathers to yourself."
I don't know what's more terrible, the puns, or the fact that you're forcing a helpless creature to laugh at them.
Oh, ok :)
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