Father Jackal

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Well I don't control the other party members unfortunately. I believe the Ninja will be getting Mobility next. That should help keep him healthy. Improved Outflank should help us when we can't move into a proper flank. I suppose I should just look into a proper Sword-and-Board build after level 7.

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Well I wasn't looking to re-spec the character. Maybe if she dies and get Reincarnated, at least that way it will feel more natural. The question was more regarding, "What should I do going forward?"

I am the parties main tank. Going Vigilante would be a pretty hard respec. Also Jade Regent is mostly an over-land travel AP, meaning Vigilante has less value.

Tactically our group is a mess. That's the biggest problem. Our Bloodrager is going Dragon Disciple, wanting the late game multi-attacks. But that means he doesn't ever overcome DR. The Sorc. is a blaster style without Precise Shot and struggles to figure out her Concentration when put on the spot. So she rarely gets her spells off, when she does she seldom hits anyways, and when she does hit she deals little damage. The Shaman almost exclusively heals. Our enemies never seem to miss an attack against us, so he is always just trying to keep us alive. Our ninja's build doesn't come online until he gets the ninja trick that gives him Greater Invisibility. Our Monk/Bard is a first time Bard and really unsure what he should be doing in most combats, (likely why she dies).

Ultimately we have low to-hit and low damage (a bad combo for sure), but also low AC, saves and healing. Each combat is a lengthy war of attrition burning all our casters spells. Add to that fact that gold is divided 6 ways instead of the AP's intended 5, and we slump behind in out equipment benchmarks.

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Secret Wizard wrote:

Your build is very good.

You ARE missing Combat Reflexes to get more kick out of Bodyguard (the reason why I recommended Harrying Partners).

I have both Combat Reflexes and Stand Still already.

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Typically when I build a character I will map out my build path some. With this Sister-In-Arms character I created it for an interesting tie-in. I'm not really sure where to go with it, or if my build is decent at all.

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Hi everyone! I am looking for a little advice on a character I am already playing. I would like to know what direction to possibly take this character going forward. I’m hoping this thread will function as a “Think Tank” for me.

The AP in question is Jade Regent. The character in question is a Suli Cavalier. She is a Sister-In-Arms archetype. Now the reason this was selected is because our group completed Curse of the Crimson Throne previously and she serves as a tie in to the previous game. In fact she was a captive mid brainwashing that the previous party had rescued.

The Party: Other party members include a Kitsune Monk 1 Bard 4 (exclusively going Bard from now on), a Catfolk Starsoul Sorcerer (played as a blaster), a Kitsune Bloodrager going Dragon Disciple, a Kitsune Ninja with Trapfinding trait, and a Human Shaman (Healing Hex).

As Suli is a high race point option my racial features were changed to the following. A.S.M. = +2 Str. +2 Cha. -2 Int., Type Outsider Native, and Humanoid (Human), Energy Resistance cold 5, Negotiator +2 Diplomacy and Sense Motive, Elemental Assault (cold only), Ice Walk, Darkvision 60ft, Mostly Human. *** Special GM ruling. *** As Sui did not have a special Favored Class Option listed for Cavalier, the GM ruled that ⅙ a Tactician feat would be allowed.

Current Ability Scores at level 5; Str. 16, Dex. 13, Con. 14, Int. 10, Wis. 12, Cha. 16.
Traits: Hero Worship (Shalelu), Reactionary, Carefully Hidden Drawback: Scarred
Feats: Power Attack, Outflank (Tactician), Bodyguard (Bonus), Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
Equipment: +1 Longsword, MW Chainmail, +1 Light Fortification Light Steel Shield, +1 Cloak of Resistance

Next level will be 6, which will give me my favored class bonus, I was thinking Improved Outflank. At level 7 I was considering Chain Challenge.

In general our group is struggling right now. We have had 2 deaths already. (Monk/Bard twice). Also our casters essentially completely tap themselves out of spells after a single encounter.

Thanks All!

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The thread has been dead for a while now, but I have some free time and thought I would pop back in. So I talked to the GM, he will try to correct some of the financing issues. Second Darkness is an off night game we play, so we have only played once since.

I figured I would explain the current party composition better. Currently our 4 main characters are; a buff/Bless Equipment spec cleric, a illusionist wizard, a str based sword and board fighter and an unchained rogue. We have 2 additional characters that some times sit in; a crossbow spec ranger and some sort of psionic character. (player had been playing a bard but lost his character sheet and rebuilt as a psionic can't remember what kind).

By the sounds of peoples suggestions the fighter is a weak link. Should probably re-spec into something the point buy can get better reach.

We intentionally don't take animal companions for a reason. We like to conserve action economy around our table. It's not as if we never take them, in this case the ranger may, but typically we prefer the faster rounds.

Given that this game is a 15 point buy should the cleric look to try and off tank? I think the class is too multi-stat dependent. The player is trying to maximize casting and channels for Bless Equipment uses.

The Wizard being an illusionist doesn't throw around much damage. He mostly fills utility and battlefield control rolls. He loves grease.

It's weird, the rogue should be having the easiest time of it, but is the player that complains the most. We hear a lot of, "This is garbage, small characters get double ripped off with this smaller dice size AND a negative to str. these rules are stupid."

The ranger came in late to the party and had better starting gold. He took the trait allowing him to be proficient in what he made. Naturally he crafted himself a +1 Darkwood Heavy repeating Crossbow, cause why not. I think his first favored enemy is human, which makes sense in Riddleport.

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Thanks for the feed back so far! I was looking to be corrected and the Order of the Paw in particular did just that.

I don't own the Giant Hunters Handbook but I do imagine that mixing it with the Players Guides for Rise of the Runelords and Giant Slayer you could come up with some effective ideas.

I bet there as many good Traits as there are Feats that you guys mentioned, so there certainly is a lot of material out there. This post was mostly just about something I found to be an oddity rather than an outreach to min-max. But I find it interesting.

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Yeah I understand building to beat Giants. Dwarves are an obvious choice with their racial features, available traits, and feats. Smaller races also have good feat lines for combating races/creatures larger than themselves.

I just feel as though there must be something I missed. With so many build options for every other type of creature you fight available I thought that there must be something for Giants. I mean, Paizo does have two AP's centered around using them as the primary villains.

That being said, if what I'm looking for doesn't exist, what do people think are the idealized builds for fighting giants? Lets start a conversation about that.

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So I was tinkering with some hypothetical builds the other day, as many gamer's do, and I noticed something peculiar. There are no Paizo prestige classes or class-archetypes that specialize in dealing with Giants. I find this so odd because two AP's focus around Giants.

I've found ways to specialize in fighting aberrations, dragons, undead, outsiders of various types, and even genies. Why not Giants?

Now I know there are races that have features against giants (lookin at you dwarf and gnome) and Rangers can always select Favored Enemy, but that's not what I'm getting at here.

I'm also aware of builds that benefit from fighting Giants. The "Titan" builds for both the Barbarian and Fighter benefit from Large weapon drops. Goliath Druids and Mammoth Rider benefit from Giant sized dungeons. But these examples benefit from fighting Giants, but don't specialize in fighting them.

Am I just missing something here? Am I looking in the wrong place? I am involved in a few groups playing Rise of the Runelords, so it could help them. We also regularly talk about starting the Giant Slayer AP. Thoughts everyone?

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If you can somehow get access to Eastern Style armor, you will have more options. If you aren't in an eastern setting see if you can get a book on them and try crafting it yourself. Lamellar could really be what you are looking for. It can be made of almost any material as can the cording.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/lamellar-armor

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^Agrees with Fey Foundling. Can't believe I forgot to suggest that!

*Ashamed of myself.

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Traits can be great for increasing your characters survive-ability! First question though, what AP are you playing in? Making the appropriate choices for the character/AP combo is important. Also keep in mind that Traits and Feats stack! So you can always double up your defenses that way. Keep in mind however, many of the best Traits have prerequisites just like Feats do. I would in general agree with everyone who has posted before me as well. Also ask your GM about selecting Campaign Traits from other AP's, they can be some of the best! Onward to suggestions!

Firstly any Trait that gives you a bonus to a Save is good. Like I said before these Traits will stack with a Feat. ex. Resilient +1 Fortitude stacks with the Feat Great Fortitude +2 Fortitude. That +3 can definitely save your hide! Now some of these Traits have 'a little extra' and I will list examples below.

Missing Child; +1 Will Saves and Diplomacy and Sense Motive are always Class Skills for you.
Purity of Faith; +1 Will Saves and a +1 Trait bonus on saving throws against spells and effects originating from an outsider with the Evil type.
Carefully Hidden (human); +1 Will Saves and +2 Trait bonus vs Divination effects.
Northern Ancestry; +1 Fortitude Saves and Energy Resistance Cold 2
Grounded (dwarf); +2 on balance related Acrobatics checks and +1 bonus to Reflex saves.

Other great Traits to keep you alive are:

Lessons of Faith; gives you a re-roll on a save
Defender of Society; Fighter only, but +1 AC!
Glory of Old (dwarf); +1 trait bonus vs most bad things
Unscathed; Probably the best trait for a Suli ever!
Defensive Strategist; is your class missing Uncanny Dodge? Pick this trait!
Finding your Kin; eliminates your favored class bonus choice but you get +1 Hit Point and +1 Skill Point per level, amazing!

As far as Feats go, build matters. You would be surprised what really saves your characters life at the end of the day.

Toughness is good. Better if you have a positive Con Modifier and the Finding Your Kin Trait.
Great fortitude. Lightning reflexes. Iron will. Saving throw bonuses. The improved versions grant once per day rerolls. I favor the Fort and Will ones personally.
Dodge into Mobility into Spring Attack can help a Dex based melee character a ton.
Shield Focus, Armor Focus, Missile Shield can all help out.
Defensive Combat Training and its Improved version help out people struggling with combat maneuvers. Divine casters going melee come to mind for these feats.
Teamwork Feats. Escape Route is HUGE for not provoking attacks of opp. If your party, or just certain members, have a tendency to over-commit in combat this feat will keep you alive!

Finally word. Picking up a few things to shore up your defenses is not a bad move, but don't sacrifice too much offence doing it. Sometimes the safest play is killing the enemy a round or more faster to avoid these predicaments.

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Some things to consider in general with a paladins feat build.

When you confirm a critical hit any extra damage bonuses multiply but extra damage dice do not. This means your bonus damage from Smite Evil and Power Attack will multiply but your extra dice from Vital Strike won't. Also, Vital Strike can only be used for a single attack action, so at higher levels you a less likely to make use of the feat during a Full Round Attack Action. This is why people like weapons that either have a good crit range like the scimitar and falchion (18-20) or higher crit multipliers like x3 or x4. The Falcata is the best of both worlds as far as one handed swords go, with a 1d8 19-20 x3.

As far as the Cleave tree is concerned I would suggest avoiding it completely. It's a feat heavy tree that doesn't gain you much. Don't get me wrong, the Cleave tree can be good, but it lends itself to Fighters and Rangers who have the extra combat feats to spare.

I love Toughness for any melee based character except the Paladin. Starting at level 2 the Paladin can, as a swift action, use Lay-on-Hands on themselves. This means the Extra Lay-on-Hands feat will actually extend their hit points further than Toughness will.

Feats I like for a Paladin (in no particular order);

Power Attack (must for any melee build)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency Falcata (if you are swinging that way, not necessary though)
Weapon Focus
Furious Focus (Hitting consistently is important)
Extra Lay on Hands (don't be afraid to take me more than once!)
Improved Critical
Critical Focus
Greater Mercy
Blind-Fight
Improved Initiative
Step-Up

There are many others, but that should get you started. I could give you more specific suggestions if I knew more about your intended build, party etc...

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So first I have to ask you a few questions:

Are you using the standard Paladin or an Archetype?

What race are you playing? There are many good racial feats in the game.

What is your party composition like? This will let us know if you are filling more than one role and if Teamwork feats are a good idea.

Are you playing an AP (Adventure Path)? If so which one? This will matter.

Are there any house rules we should know about? Core only etc...

If you answer these questions we can more accurately answer your original question.

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It's funny because we are playing Second Darkness, converted to Pathfinder, so we actually own a casino. lol. Unfortunately there is game mechanics for earning profit from the casino and they are more akin to Profession checks, leaving us making silver pieces. Although... Maybe we could sell the casino for a quick cash injection.

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Just double checked how messed we are for gold right now. As of level 4 we should have about 6000 GP worth of gear each. I still only have starting gear with 400 GP currently. It seems like purchasing our way out of this problem is not likely going to happen.

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Thanks for replying! Unfortunately it is up to the GM/AP as to how much wealth we get, I don't really have a say in the matter. I was just trying to figure out ways we as players can make up this loss. I'm just wondering if we doomed ourselves to failure by trying an all gnome party.

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So I am currently playing in a party that decided to go all Gnome. Class wise our party has a good composition, Fighter, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue. We also have extra PC's that sit in when they are available to attend, a Ranger (crossbow) and some psionic class. At this point we are level 3 soon to be 4.

While playing all gnomes is fun, and we can all act silly while in the game. The PC's aren't irritating each other for doing so which is a plus. There have been several draw backs.

Getting over the -2 Strength issue. Our fighter is a strength build and on a 15 point buy is pretty neutered. But more than that we all have that same weakness. The weapon dice is also smaller, so at these earlier levels our damage takes 2 hits, particularly for our beater. The fighter has burned Exotic Weapon Prof. Bastard Sword just to get the effect of a long sword. Movement is also an issue, our fighter is speed 15 and the cleric doesn't want to wear medium armor and drop down to the same. The last major issue is that all the gear drops at medium size. Resizing and selling off gear to purchase it back at small is killing us financially.

So we have 4 major issues each hard to overcome. We don't really have any money either. This campaign is proving to be rather un-profitable. If we don't find clever ways to get around these issues the game will likely fail soon. Last night we spent 4 hours in one small fight and burned virtually all our resources to win.

So I need suggestions. How can we succeed with our plan of an all gnome party? How do we overcome the clear issues of playing a small character?

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I would be willing to let them negotiate with the troglodytes, I just know my party. The paladin of Sarenrea will take the, "I will not suffer worshipers of Rogagug to live stance." That is certain. They also were discussing their strategy openly. The intent was to get the enemies to come out of their stronghold for the fight, so it is the parties intent from the beginning.

I did apply some of the suggestions, such as lowering the antipaladin's dexterity and deflection bonuses to AC. The stats I listed mid-thread are the updated ones.

I also feel better with the changes because he does have a low Reflex save and only a moderate CMD now. Also his standard AC is now low enough that, particularly when flanked, he can be on reasonable rolls.

To reply to you Gulthor, I was just trying to grab some ideas and have a conversation. I really wasn't looking for the tread to "give me an answer" so much as bounce ideas off of and hear opinions. I generally only use members of my group to do so, but I wanted the antipaladin to be a bit of a surprise.

Paladin of Baha-who? reminded me that the PC's spell selection is of their own doing. Also Deighton Thrane reminded me that the PC's can run away, they don't need to fight to the death. So you guys did help me work out balance options for the NCP and reminded me that a failed encounter doesn't need to be a TPK.

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After my first round of tweaks he now looks like this;
Grundmoch:
Male Troglodyte Antipaladin 7
CE Medium humanoid (reptilian)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 90 ft.; Perception +2; Detect Good
Aura evil, stench (30 ft., DC 18, 10 rounds)
DEFENSE
AC 26, touch 10, flat-footed 26 (+10 armor, +6 natural)
hp 96 (2d8+6d10+47)
Fort +15, Ref +5, Will +10
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 greataxe +12/+7 (1d12+3/x3) Power Attack +1 Greataxe +9/+4 (1d12+12/x3)
Special Attacks Smite Good 3/day, Touch of Corruption (3d6+Cruelty), Channel Negative Energy DC 16 (3d6)

Antipaladin Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +7)
2nd—Blindness/Deafness
1st—Death Knell, Protection from Good

STATISTICS
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +8/+3; CMB +10; CMD 20
Feats Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greataxe), Toughness
Skills Knowledge (Religion) +4, Linguistics +4, Perception +5, Stealth +3 (+7 in rocky areas); Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth (+8 in rocky areas)
Languages Common, Draconic
Combat Gear wand of spiritual weapon (37 charges) Other Gear+1 full plate, +1 greataxe

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Okay so this is out of an AP. I don't see any reason to run an AP if I completely change every aspect of it. I'm running Legacy of Fire. Back when the party was level 5 they were supposed to hit this small section of dungeon. Instead they avoided it and have come back around to it now at level 7. The original boss was supposed to be a level 6 cleric. Also your not supposed to fight them all outside all at once. It was written for the PC's to crawl the dungeon, but for some reason I don't understand, this incarnation of our group doesn't like to do that. Instead they prefer to just battle everyone all at once, creating these massive multisession combats. I agree our action economy is toast but these monsters were intended to be fought over several encounters.

Changing the battlefield is actually not going to be possible. The PC's have walked this ground several times. The trogs Stoneshaped themselves inside their guard house and the PC's have talked them into coming out. Conflict is a 100% reality as the party has a Paladin of Sarenrea and Cleric of Sarenrae. The trogs are devout worshipers of Rovagug.

I knew a level 6 cleric would be nothing for my party to steam roll, so I subbed him out for a level 7 antipaladin. Also, this is a temple of Rovagug, it should have at least one antipaladin boss fight in it.

I suppose that I could re-distribute his Dex bonus to somewhere else and have his cleric minions burn their Shield of Faith spells on themselves. That would leave his AC looking like;

AC 26 Touch 10 Flat-Footed 26 (+10 Armor, +6 Natural)

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The Paladins Divine Bond is to his armor rather than his weapon. The paladin does have Smite Evil uses left today for sure. His Charisma is either a 16 or 18, which will net him a +3 or +4.

The Cleric typically casts Bless, Prayer and similar spells. He frequently also uses Bless Equipment. Should he use Bless Equipment to Bane the Paladin and/or Rangers weapons it could go a long way to help them.

The Sorcerer is more of a debuff spec. rather than a buff spec. He regularly casts Slow, I'm not sure he has Haste yet. He is an Elemental Bloodline (Fire). He also favors Stone Call, Lightning Bolt (Fire), and Shocking Grasp (Fire).

This is only the second encounter for the party "this day". The first not being all together too difficult for them. So they do have most of their resources still available.

In regards to his minions, he has 12 standard semi-useless grunts, 3 level 1 clerics and 3 Monitor Lizards.

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So my adventuring party kind of did a silly thing. Instead of crawling a mini-dungeon they literally knocked on the front door and started a parlay. They have used Diplomacy to convince the enemies to come out, which they will beginning next session. This will have them face a massive wave of foes (mostly of them are a very minor threat) and their boss all at once. So that is the scenario.

The party is a Paladin, Ranger (favored enemy will not apply here) with Animal Companion, Sorcerer, Rogue, and Cleric (casting spec only). They are currently at level 7.

The problem with this whole thing is the boss. I equipped the boss, a level 7 Antipaladin, with +1 Full Plate. This is intended to be part of their loot as the parties Paladin currently is not wearing full plate armor. But I don't think the party can actually hit him enough to win the day. You see he is a troglodyte, as such he has +6 Natural Armor. Combined with the fact that he knows he going into a likely fight his cleric cast Shield of Faith on him for a +2 Deflection bonus and he has a +1 Dex bonus as well. His AC break down looks like;

AC 29, Touch 13, Flat-Footed 28 (+10 Armor, +1 Dex, +2 Deflection, +6 Natural)

Factoring the parties attack bonus at +11 (+7 BAB, +3 Stat, +1 Magical Enhancement) they are only hitting on a 17 or better. Should I nerf this boss down? If so, how much?

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I agree with Davor. Archery is where a Bard shines. They tend to be too squishy for melee. Low armor and Hit Dice create that issue. Archery is easier on the point buy. Little Charisma, touch of Constitution and tons of Dexterity are all that's needed. Melee Bards need a higher point buy. They need Strength to hit and damage, Dex for Ac, Con to not instantly die, and Charisma still to cast their spells.

Dipping one or two levels into Fighter or Ranger can give you a bump by gabbing a Longbow instead of Shortbow. They also grant feats, which is always a good thing. Alternatively Elves start with Longbow proficiency, so look at racial options.

As many people have mentioned, Arcane Strike will go along way in helping balance your damage output. If you really want to see where your damage comes from just perform and every time an ally hits record the bonus damage you provided by performing. By the end of the encounter you will be surprised at how much you contributed.

Lastly look at your spell list. Spells like Allegro can be a major boon. Heroism, Rage and many others can boost damage results. The tough part is in all of this is that you need to remember that you need to fill your utility role as well. Burning all your feats and spells to pump out damage may make you feel more useful at first, but you will likely be doing your party a disservice playing that way.

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I agree completely that Primal Companion is very strong. In general animal companions are a powerful mechanic, but personally I don't usually take them. Just to save some action economy around the table. Although if the party is ever struggling I could grab it as my next revelation.

I think you are right about Combat Casting, I hadn't considered just how high my concentration checks would be. I'm unaccustomed to building higher level characters. My casters generally take the feat at lower levels and I just hadn't thought about it enough.

Ancient Lorekeeper is interesting. I do like that I would get to select my own bonus spells, and off of the Wizard list is a big deal. However I don't like the Skills trade off (mostly just Perception). But it is definitely something to keep in mind.

Finally, why wouldn't Divine Grace and Prophetic Armor stack on Reflex saves? In one instance the Charisma bonus is replacing my Dex, bonus becoming the key stat modifier, and in the other it's getting added as an additional bonus to all saves.

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I haven't found a way to get a revelation from another mystery as of yet. What Mystery are you taking? Because you are going Oracle are you going to archetype your paladin selecting out the spell casting for something else?

When it comes to selecting your Mystery there really isn't a "wrong" choice, however I would suggest making sure you aren't overlapping with the Paladin side of things. Avoid Battle and Metal because you already have Heavy Armor Proficiency and Martial Weapons. Lore, Lunar and Nature are all good ones. They have a revelation that allows you to apply your Cha. to AC rather than Dex. (not that your Dex is bad).

Consider your role in the group, even if you don't know what the rest of the group is playing, and build to suit.

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I suggest going Small sized Aasimar (Angel Blooded) into Cavalier. My gaming group also allows the players to apply the Alternate Racial trait Scion of Humanity to other races. For example Scion of Halfling would be allowed. Of course check with your GM before doing that.

Aasimar (Angel Blooded) will give you bonuses into Str. AND Cha. Both being key ability scores to the class.

Cavalier is literally built to be the mounted combat class. While other classes have archetypes and build options to get them viable as mounted combat classes, the cavalier will have an option for whichever style you prefer. Plus bonuses like free Light Armor Training for your mount.

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With the advent of the Slayer and the Unchained Rogue the Core rogue is obsolete. Not sure why a GM would nerf it, but I suppose I would have to ask him.

If Sneak Attack is something you are wanting to spec away from but keep the rogue feel going I would suggest the Slayer with Trapfinding as a Talent at second level. Also back in 3.5 there was an archetype for the rogue that replaced each instance you would gain another Sneak Attack dice with a bonus Combat feat instead. A sort of Fighter-Rogue hybrid class. You may want to run the idea past your GM and see if they will allow it.

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Thanks everyone. I think I will go with the Celestial Armor.

Although I feel I should have explained the build more. The build is Half-Elven Paladin 2, Oracle 9 Mystery: Lunar Curse: Undecided.

Half-Elf Alternate racial trait; Dual Minded.

Paladin; Standard no archetypes
Favored class bonus (2) +1/2 a point to Lay-on-Hands (Elf)

Oracle; Lunar Mystery, Curse undecided.
Favored Class Additional Spell Know. (Human)
Revelations: Prophetic Armor, Eye of the Moon, Moonbeam

Feats:
1. Combat Casting
3. Improved Initiative
5. Metamagic Feat (undecided)
7. Spell Penetration
9. Item Creation feat, Wondrous or Arms and Armor or Wand
11.Greater Spell Penetration or Extra Revelation (Touch of the Moon)

Stats: Str. 12, Dex. 10, Con. 14, Int. 10, Wis. 10, Cha. 27

Not sure what direction to go for a 'Weapon' yet. I see this character as playing battlefield control, buffer and debuffer rather than a damage dealer.

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The idea of Specific Armor really appeals to me. Although I don't feel I've read enough of the required material to know what is all out there.

The Celestial Armor is nice, although I would be willing to take a price cut to drop the Fly effect if need be. :P Maybe I should take a couple crafting feats and skills in order to bring in some of my starting gear at cost rather than retail. Starting gold is a limited resource after all...

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So I have created a cross-class character at level 11. Now I'm looking at having a between a +7 to +9 Dex modifier that I can apply to my AC, depending on item purchases. The problem is that I also have Heavy Armor Proficiency and I'm trying to figure out if I should go with Mithral Fullplate for a net +12 AC and a higher Flat Footed AC or with a lighter Darkleaf Cloth Armor to make use of my Dex and have a really high Touch AC.

Obviously any armor I choose will be magically enhanced. I will most likely have other sources of AC as well, Amulet of NA, Deflection bonus maybe a Buckler with enhancements. But for the sake of argument I'm focusing on the armor and stat bonus.

It would seem to me that the highest standard bonus would be the Full Plate, but only by a point or 2. The lighter armor will also let me move at a base speed of 30. touch vs. flatfooted is another point to consider. I just don't know!

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The RAW and the RAI support using Spring Attack this way. The feat is worded to work this way and the flavor text, "You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react." does as well.

The point of Spring Attack is that you do a whole bunch of crap that normally provokes but your opponent is denied those attacks. And if the opponent is denied his AoO rather than you avoiding it, how many times you provoke or how you provoke is irrelevant.

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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The wording of Spring Attack makes me think differently than the 5' step ruling. Direct quote,

"As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking ANY attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack."

I interpret the way this as written as preventing your opponent from making the AoO against you rather than just you not provoking. The feat doesn't limit it's text to movement provokes, meaning you could even make an unarmed attack without Improved Unarmed Strike without provoking (your target only) as well.

Either way it only helps the first round. Second round the opponent shifts out of its square and you will be forced to chase, shifting in and provoking 1 AoO.

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I don't know. I would rule that moving into your opponents square with Spring Attack would count as part of your movement that wouldn't provoke AoO. And yes I think the whole thread has agreed that using spells could help but OP specifically asked for magic-less solutions. So asking the caster to Blind enemies is a stretch.

Another way to go is Teamwork feats. Feint Partner and Improved Feint Partner coming from one of your allies could really help. But Overwhelm could make this for you! It sounds like exactly what you need. You and your fighter enter the opponents square and you can sneak attack as though you are flanking, without an actual flank.

Lastly talk to your GM. The game is putting real restrictions on the party. All Tiny with little to no magic is very unbalancing. Using CR ratings of beasties will be misleading because PF is written with the idea that magic gear and spell casters will be involved. So ask him to make some concessions and house rules to make the game more playable. Simply shrinking the grid perspective could do that.

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Quite right BlackJack Weasel. Looks like I would have to do a shuffle. Switching Alertness and Double slice and moving my level 4 stat bonus to Dex if I where to take that route. Part of the reason I want Double Slice is to also be lazy and have matching attacks. :P

Sounds like hitting that 7th level in Slayer is the way to go. I find it funny because I initially chose Slayer because it could qualify easier and earlier than most other options.

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I would suggest starting as either a Human or Half-Elf to grab the Proficiency Feat at first level. Level 1 should be Barbie for the D12 Hit Dice, so pick up Power Attack to go along with it. Somewhere along the line I would suggest switching to a Large Falcata and grabbing Weapon Focus to mitigate the -2 to Attack rolls by 1.

As far as playing "sneaky" I would suggest a 2 level dip in Ranger or Slayer over rogue. Not loosing BAB is important to a Str. based melee build. In the case of the Slayer you could even grab Trapfinding if that sort of thing tickles your fancy. Both will grab you 6 skill points per level with better saves, HP, and no loss of BAB.

Except for Evasion as level 2 I don't see a big gain to rogue dipping for a barbarian.

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You could look to convert to something that would make Archery more viable like a Slayer or a Ranger. Slayer would allow you to keep your rogue-ish feel without being dependent on Sneak-Attack so much. You will also have the feats to pull it off.

If you switch to a Melee build I would suggest the Spring Attack tree to get you into melee range. Invisibility can help out with landing those sneak attacks but as you mentioned that only goes so far in helping. Normally I would suggest a series of spells and magic items to help, but again we are running into a wall. My only suggestion here is to get an ally to CC for you a lot. Knock enemies prone, dirty tricks to Blind them, whatever you have to do in order to make them loose their Dex bonus to AC and fire off Sneak Attack damage.

The last melee option I will suggest is going U.C. Rogue 3 (for that Dex damage on a rapier) and switching to Fighter. Maybe even build towards Duelist. This build gives you a ton of Feats and build options and again doesn't rely as heavily on Sneak Attack but keeps you a rogue for the purposes of feel and role play. Lots of fun options for feats after Combat Expertise is taken as well, just be careful because your CMB will have taken a nose dive from being Tiny.

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Druids can totally be viable casters! While min/maxing for damage output would lend itself to Wild Shaping with an Animal Companion a spell casting druid can still great around the table.

Not having the animal companion will hurt in some respects mechanically but I find not having animals and cohorts around really saves on action economy around the table. The fact that your turn doesn't take twice as long as everyone else will have the rest of the players thanking you.

That means you will likely be going with a Domain (pending archetypes) and they can be fun. If you are the primary Divine caster of your party take Healing. Druids can work well as healers particularly in a low point-buy game as clerics are often spread thin with their stats. It also opens up more racial choices because a negative to Charisma isn't the end of the world (like Dwarf).

The key is just knowing what role your filling in the party and what type of game you're playing when picking archetypes and domains. Natures Fang druid sounds great if you are looking to be more offensive in your spell casting, and a domain like Fire could complement it well. But look to the game as well. The Arctic Druid may just be the way to go in a game like Reign of Winter.

Often the hardest part of playing the druid is finding your niche in the party. Once you do that however they can be a ton of fun.

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I typically take Power Attack with all my melee builds, my only concern is missing too often from stacking the TWF negatives and the Power Attack negatives. Although after a few levels of play I could get a good feel as to how often I hit.

Also you are right in that I didn't include trait choices! A +1 Will save would definitely make the short list. Although Armor Expert is tasty for the build. (Mithral Breastplate is light for Crimson Assassin casting and 0 ACP then). As is anything that gives the old +2 Initiative.

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So I'm looking for someone to review my build concept going into the Crimson (Red Mantis) Assassin prestige class. So far my build starts out with a Half-Elf as my race using Alternate Racial features. I have removed; Elven Immunities, Adaptability, and Multitalented. In exchange I have taken; Thinblood Resilience, Dual-Minded, and Ancestral Arms (Sawtooth Saber). Keen Senses and Low-Light Vision remained unaffected. GM permission on these changes was approved. Another key feature is that I'm using the Human Favored Class bonus of 1/6 a Slayer Talent per level. (Just enough to nab it once before prestige.)

Luckily the GM decided to let the group power-game a bit and went full 25 Point buy. My Stats by level 6 are:
Str. points 10(16) + Racial +2 + Level 4 +1 = 19
Dex. points 5 = 14
Con. points 5 = 14
Int. 10
Wis. 10
Cha. points 5 = 14

My progression from levels 1 to 6 looks like this;

1. Ancestral Arms (Sawtooth Saber), Weapon Focus (Sawtooth Saber)
2. Talent - Ranger Combat Style (Two-Weapon Fighting)
3. Double Slice
4. Talent - Trapfinding (I am the party rogue)
5. Alertness
6. Talent - Ranger Combat Style (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting) Bonus Talent - Either Slowing Strike or Combat Trick.

I've only listed up to level 6 because that's when the prestige class takes over. However I will mention I plan on Improved Critical at level 9 and Two-Weapon Rend at 11. So just how viable am I?