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Hello all, I wanted to make both for players and GM's a ranger Archetype for the Sable Company Marine. The Feat suggested in the players guide feels like a bad carry over from the OGL version of the Module and the Golorian Day archetype breaks later class features without compensation. As both a GM and a player for going on 20+ years now I feel I am personally Equipped to make this right so here is my current build and I will place my reasoning for each change after the fact.
As a small aside although I am aware of spoilers about the Sable company as I also intend this to be for player use and the fact that I am currently playing in CotCT and am not aware of any spoiler other than those about the sable company since I did research on them, Lets keep this spoiler free. Also I may look into making the Paladin equivalent to this archetype but at the moment ranger is what I am playing and I made this Archetype for myself before bringing it here to share with the community. Feedback would very much be appreciated especially if someone like JJ who made the AP and the Sable Company gave some input.
I am another that would like to see a reprint on these. Second hand on amazon people are trying to pawn(pun intended) these off for $700+. I just personally got into running modules as I have always been a homebrew guy. But I got a set of the RotRL ogl from a friend for free and want to buy the hardcover anniversary book but without the pawns I feel like it is a waste.
I like that conversion. I might use it. He basicly does what I would have done. Add advanced templates to anything weak and add a level to Named enemy npcs.
Yah I looked through the whole book and have an idea of things it just seems a few of the scripted encounters are a tad on the weak side like the intro, thorn river camp and the ruined temple. Ajusting random encounters is pretty easy to do ad-hoc. I have been DMing since I was 9 and am 24 now :) I usually homebrew but since I am playing this game long distance using roll20.net its easier to run a precon with all the art assets made for me. Kingmaker was an easy choice knowing my one player hates the beaten trail.
How many people are in your party? What's the point buy and class make up of the party? 5 players but there may be a 6th sometimes. 20 point buy. 15 is too dibilitating imo.Ifrit inquisitot with their racial archatype from the arg. Sylph Druid with the sky Druid archatype from the arg. Udine bard with the watersinger archatype from arg Oread monk with the style master archatype. Kitsune rogue with knife master archatype. The 6th if presant will be a tiefling of some variety. The 4 elementals were a theme I suggested and they will each have one of the Nobel faimly campagne traits to fit in the kitsune will have brigand. Sorry for slow reply am at work.
I am starting a kingmaker game in a day or so and have a fairly stacked party and want to know how you guys would increase the difficulty. I was planning on any fight with a variable number of enemies such as the intro battle at oleg's add one more cr of enemies. In that situation that would be 3 more cr 1/3 bandits. And on any mob with a cr1 plus add the " simple: advanced" template.
Thoughts?
Hey, guys/gals I am joining a new game with friends and the DM wants really deep backstories. I have a good one. However there is no region in his world that would what I want. So the GM said that he has room for a few major cities/regions that he hasn't filled out yet. Him knowing that I dm also gave me 100% free reign to develop this area to drop in his world. Problem is I am working 50+ hours right now and don't have the spare time to do it. I am looking for something similar to mid-renaissance Italy in style. A large city. Lots of open markets and bazzars. It will be on the northern edge of the continent so water in the northen part of the city. Roads for trade and commerce to the south. The renaissance era would help to explain open knowledge and learning. So one or more magic schools and other such schools and colages. To the east or west would be wilderness or mountains.
I had a Topic similar to this a few days ago that was resolved. This one has a different question. That question is how do you build the stat block of your animal form. I understand all the other elements of how to build a Lycan but that. The big questions are Do I just change to the stat block in the Bestiary of the base animal accept that it has my stats where higher and +2 Str and +2 Con. Do I take its HD or Keep mine. I believe I keep mine as mine will eventually be greater with levels anyway just, low at lower levels. Do I take on its skills and feats wile in the animal form. Again I think this is a no. The exception being if it has Racial skill buffs I would gain them, e.g. a Tiger have +4 Stealth(+8 in tall grass). I am pretty sure The case is Take my stat block and add its naturals, its speed, its SA's and SQ's. But I would like a second opinion.
Jacomus:
I understand what you are getting at but the second stat block is ONLY the hybrid not the beast. The Werewolf from the Bestiary1 is a perfect example to show that your method is missing the base creature. Wolf
As you can see a By the book Wolf has a dex of 15 while the base creature has only 13. Being a Lycan does NOT add any dex. However when he Turns hybrid he takes the highest of the stats available between is Base animal(wolf) and the base creature(human). Therefore in hybrid form his dex is SET to 15 by his Wolf base animal. Also you will notice that the Wolf has a con of 15 while the human has a con of 14 notice the hybrid has a 17 con otherwise 15(wolf)+2(Lycan bonus)= 17 Same is true for The Were rat, Tiger and Boar. The only one with a wrong stat block is the Werebear. Rat:
Rat
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4 Human Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 6 Hybrid Str 15, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 6 Notice Dex Boar:
Boar
Str 17, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 4 Human(Str and con have 2 stats raging and not raging) Str 14/19, Dex 13, Con 14/18,Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 Hybrid(Str and con have 2 stats raging and not raging) Str 19/23, Dex 13, Con 19/23, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 Notice Str 17(Boar base)+ 2(Lyacn bonous)+ 4(rage)=23 and Con 17(Boar base)+ 2(Lyacn bonous)+ 4(rage)=23 Tiger:
Tiger
Str 23, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Human Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8 Hybrid Str 25, Dex 16, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8 Notice Str is 25=23(tiger base)+2(lycan bonus) and Con is 19=17(Tiger Base)+2(Lycan Bonus) Even if you base the were bear on a Black Bear or a Medium Brown Bear(FYI Grizzlys are the smallest of the Brown bear family fail Pazio) by applying the young template to the Grizzly the Str is 1 too low the Dex is 3 too low and the Con is the only thigh that is right. Also seeing as the Weretiger is based on a Large Tiger there is no reason the Werebear wound't be based off a large bear and have a 23 Str as the Tiger has a 25!!!! That means a Were tiger level 1 any class can have a 25 Str!!! Therefore a Natural born Tiger is completely in control of his hybrid and can wreck a 2nd or 3rd level players face off with naturals forget class abilities. My point being... Jacomus you seem to be playing devils advocate or think yo have knowledge beyond the printed rules. We need to know what bear they used to make that block or completely ignore it and rebuild it using the Grizzly as the Base Animal.
"When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised." is all you really need you just need to look at it deeper. Being aware of someone and being aware of their intent are two different things. Also you can't ready action if there isn't an initiative in most cases. Scenario 1
Scenario 2
Sometimes the rules don't have all the answers but that's how i have always done it for the past 16ish years. Another way you can help your self decide is picture your self in the scenario IRL and without meta'ing decide if you would be aware with what the PC give you. If you though 'this guy is clearly angry but harmless(bad or no sense motive check)' You probably wouldn't be ready for that sucker punch. where as if you though 'This guy is drunk angry and stupid enough to throw down(good sense motive or you are itching to a fight and just want him to throw the first punch)' you will probably have a good chance of dodging and are probably watching his hands more than his face
That would make sense accept that's NOT how it is presented. A natural Lycan or a cursed both have an Animal form. And the Abilities block states that the stats are adjusted to the highest of the Base creature OR the base animal while in hybrid and animal form. Since we ALWAYS have the base creature as its who's affected we need the Base animal. Not to mention your solution does noting to explain a Natural's stats. By your explanation a natural would never have stats higher than his stats when he became a first level accept he has +2 str,+2con when he shape-shifts. Which however is completely wrong because he still has an animal form and that animal is very likely stronger than him thus his str or other stats would be higher as a Hybrid or a animal. You can't ignore that the base animal IS part of the building if it wasn't than lycans are no more dangerous than any other classed character with enlarge person cast on them.
I think you are missing this. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope’sability scores are the same as the base creature’s or the base animal’s, whichever ability score is higher. It states that in Hybrid form it takes the highest stat between the base creature(human in this case) and the Animal(Unknown). The only Bear in the beastry is a Grizzly Bear with a Str of 21. So if that same human with 16 Str went hybrid the Higest Str of his Base or Animal form is 21 and 21+2(Lycan benefit) is 23. If you didn't miss that than I don't know what you are trying to say. Unless the Bear that Werebear transforms into has a Str of 16 or less his Hybrid Str should be Higher than 18. I think this is Why the Book should also list their animal form stats or make a page reference. All the other Lycans' in the book their animals have a stat block under that name e.g Wolf, Rat, Boar and Tiger are Called; Wolf, rat, Boar and Tiger in the Beastly. So either the Werebear needs a reference creature or it needs to be named WereGrizzly Bear and have its stats adjusted.
Agreed accept that when a Dwarf actually tames a bear in game it shrinks to half his height. Same for any mob. I tamed a 15ft wide flaming purple spider I want to stay that way not become 3ft wide. Or I tamed a 25ft tall T-rex why is it now only 10ft? :( In understand the game mechanic that Big pets are big on screen and block s!@+ but if they don't want us to have big pets why make them big in the world? Can anyone tell I main a hunter? Back to pathfinder. It just seems like they skrewed up with Lycans in general by not providing the proper animals. Hell they don't even need to Supply examples of Werecritters since the rules state that you just need a base creature and a base animal within one size of the base creature. Why no WereDeinonychus 2 Claws, a bite and pounce. Plus a nice con so you can focous you stats on Dex or Str. Dex based WereDeinonychus with weapon finesse would be awesome :P
Hm, odd. I figured perhaps they might have based the stats off the medium bear from 3.5, but that would result in a Str 21, as the large brown bear in 3.5 has a 27 Strength (literally a size-up from the black bear). Seems that the bears got nerfed in Pathfinder. They're not even worth being CR 4. :\ Well from a player standpoint one would HAVE to assume that 'Grizzly, Bear' is the only option but that would also mean the Hybrid from should be large as well. So I suppose what we really need is the 'base animal' that is in neither book. Even if you base it off of a Druid Companion bear of Medium size. Bear:
Bear
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent. 4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2. It would still result in a 21 Str total 15(base)+ 4(Size) + 2(Lycan)=21
I was looking at the Werebear for my GF because she wants to play in a game I am running and she likes 'were' creatures I I noticed something off from bestiary 2. In Bestiary 1 in the Lycanthropy section it says. Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con
The part I put in bold is what is odd. In bestiary2 the Werebear in Hybrid form has Str 18, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 8. The 18 strength is what threw me off. The Animal form of a Werebear would be a Grizzly, Bear from Bestiary, the only bear in the book. So shouldn't a Werebear in Hybrid form have 23 Str(21[Grizzly]+2[Lycan]=23)? Also likewise a 21 Con as 19(Grizzly) +2(lycan) is 21. Or is the wording bad in the bestiary and shouldn't include hybrid from in that statement.
I originally had a much more in-depth response typed but I decided against it as its not worth arguing over a game and its off topic like crazy. I would like to state however that using your way if getting a CR for an NPC by using "Appendix 2:Monster Advancement" is flawed because it depends on rules that contradict it from the CRB chapter "Creating NPC's" Using the goblins you presented earlier a 6th level Goblin warrior. For one his stat allocation has to be taken from The crating NPC's chapter as Goblins are a race who's HD are determined ONLY by class levels. Also an NPC's gear is determined by its level NOT its CR. So your 6th level warrior has 3450gp. So a CR 2 monster has 3500gp of gear. So an APL 1 or 2 party who should be able to take a CR monster just got 3500gp worth of loot from a single monster. That is incredibly flawed. My point being. Anything that's HD are only a factor of its class levels are made and follow the rules of the "Creating NPCs" chapter of the CRB. Monsters who's HD are a result of racial HD are created using beastry chapter "Appendix 2:Monster Advancement" Every monster in the Beastry that has a level in a class follows the CR method of the game mastering chapter of CL-1 for PC classes and CL-2 for NPC classes. This is because they are NPC's and not monsters. I would love a Paizo designer to comment on this but that's not likely.
You'd be surprised how much actually doesn't need to be hand made. The bestiary entries assume that in addition to their listed items, which are always meager, they have NPC gear appropriate for their level/CR. That means those little goblins are supposed to have about 260 gp worth of gear, or their CR drops by 1 (or down one fractional CR). The Beastery or CRB don't stae anything about CR changing with less gear. The standard Goblin has 54 of its 260 spent on that basic gear. So with the 206 GP left they can each have a few alchemical fires or a cure light pot. With or without this gear is not enough to rais or lower the CR. Also you have to keep treasure balance in mind. Lets take my part as an example. Each encounter should yield about 350 GP There is no way to get a CR 2 encounter with 1/3 monsters so you have to scale up or down. Lets scale up for sake of challenge. That's 6 CR 1/3 Gobs with 260 GP of gear for a CR of 3(Although this would be a CR 2 in 3.5). An APL 2 party on a slow curve is 350 GP as said above. That's 1560 GP. Assume that is all sold at half cost for raw gold. Its still 780 GP That puts them 480 GP over the curve. Witch means That the extra 206 GP either is to be spent on things that are one time use or is basic gear as the CRB suggest for NPC's that will only be encountered once. So Basic Gear is 54 GP or 27GP once sold assuming its picked up at all. 350-27=323. Lets assume each of those goblins spent 100gp on alchemist fire. However will only use about 3 on average. So that leaves 2 per goblin at 20 GP per potion. These items are useful to the part and likely will not be sold so they are worth their full 20 GP. 323-240=83. So each Goblin still has 106 GP worth of gear. By now you can see were I am going. NPC gear aids an encounter most definitely but unless it exceeds or goes greatly below its not going to alter the CR. Congratulations. Thanks Seems decent. Not happy with the cleric he always delays his action and waits to see if people need healing. Otherwise he does nothing. Well and good. Thanks again A Note on CR and NPCs: The rules conflict between the Gamemastering section in the core rulebook and the Bestiary guidelines for determining CR. I recommend using the Bestiary method for calculating CR, as it is both more comprehensive, more accurate, and is also what was used in 3.x. The main difference is that the core rulebook inflates the CR for NPC-classed NPCs, while the Bestiary raises their CR by only +0.5 for every NPC class level and then giving them NPC gear based on CR (resulting in NPCs more on par with similarly powered monsters). I can't find where in the Beastry you are reading this. What I read from the beastry only has rules for if a monster has PC classes witch raises its CR by 1 for each level that benefits its role. Or 1 for every 2 levels if it does not help its role. There are no stated rules for NPC classes. Also the CRB Gamemastering section rules are the same. A monsters with class levels is equal to its level -1 for PC classes or Level -2 for NPC classes(Witch is the same as .5 CR per level accept it rounds up on odd numbers) Which bring me to a few things to point out. Elite Archer: A 6th level goblin warrior would be about CR 2 (600 XP), and have 2 attacks at +6/+1 respectively, and 3 feats. These make for good goblin champions who aren't much more than bruisers, but they don't die super fast since they have 6d10 hit dice (giving them 33 Hp with a +0 Con). Putting their 4th HD ability increase into Dex (using the standard goblin as a base), you get a +3 modifier. All together their to hit and damage should be +6/+1 (BAB) plus +1 (size) plus +3 (Dex) = +10/+5. Give them Point Blank, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot, and you have +8/+8/+3 at 1d4/1d4/1d4. You could also replace Precise Shot with Deadly Aim to give them +6/+6/+2 at 1d4+2/1d4+2/1d4+2 if you want them to hit a bit harder but less often. Even by the rules you are stating this guy would be a CR 3 and by the gamemastering section a CR 4. Even applying his statistics to Table 1-1 in the beastery puts his CR between 3 and 4 pretty solidly. Fighting Dirty: A goblin warrior 5 / assassin 1 is also CR 2, and have both solid Hp, attacks, and Stealth. They also get Stealth and some other goodies as class skills. Dump charisma and raise Intelligence. You know have murderous goblins that have DC 11+ save or die attacks, as well as the ability to use some magic via wands due to their class spell list. Their Stealth should be a good +17 before factoring in Dexterity (just 6 ranks, +3 class skill, +4 size, +4 racial). Still by the rules yo presented this is not a CR 2. 5*0.5=2.5 plus the assassin is a +1 flat because it is not an npc class and brings a lot to the label for him. So 2.5+1=3.5 so by your rules he is at least a 3. By gamemastering he is a CR 5 because the fact that he is an assassin means he is no longer only NPC classed thus his CR is equal to level -1 or 6-1=5. Seeing those for their actual CR they make bad encounters because with an APL 2 party I could only throw one of them against the party. at a time Because even with your rules making them CR 3 each. 2 equal cr monsters add +2 CR to an encounter thus 2 of them would be a CR 5 at 1600 XP. Seeing with small numbers like 2 these guys would hit and run making them worth no XP since the party would never face them on equal footing and thus never kill them or maybe never even see them to attack them. As far as the tactics you presented. Yes, yes, yes! With the up coming story events I have planned the Goblins will most certifiably have the upper hand and get plenty of ambushes and guerrilla tactics of their own. The Bat idea is cool but limits class choices to Druid and Cavalier because otherwise a dire bat is a CR 2 on its own and a npc classed goblin will barely have enough money to saddle and armor such a mount and have decent gear. 60GP for exotic military saddle, 50GP for studded leather for it and at least 50 for basic gear leaves 100GP but by npc gear rules only about 40GP should be on one time use items so that leaves him with 60GP he can't really spend (if he buys 2 alchemical fires) of which he likly only carries a few on him. So if the PC's manage to shoot him out of the sky he is only worth XP and half the GP worth of his goods so 80GP split 5 ways is 16gp a player and 147 XP a player. For about the same xp 135 each you could have 5 Goblins and get 27 GP per player. |
