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Organized Play Member. 811 posts (8,288 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 24 Organized Play characters. 9 aliases.


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Grand Lodge

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I think the down threads here always disappear pretty quickly.
And they're not exactly tricky...

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Maybe I shouldn't do math at 5:30 in the morning.

I counted level 1 as 1 CP instead of 2. ...and I didn't add the point for the fourth one, either.

Well, never mind then.

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I'm sorry, I'm sick. Just a cold, but I've been moving slow. May postpone getting that started a day or so.

Grand Lodge

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Squiggit wrote:
Man Class DC really is such a terrible mechanic.

Uh, why? What's wrong with it?

In other d20 games, abilities each include their own save DC formula (though I'm pretty sure I've seen one or two where they forgot to define it!) that are all ultimately pretty similar. Here they define it once, done.
Though of course then you get the occasional ability that still doesn't specify to use it, so that's the same issue. But more concise!

Teridax wrote:


I don't understand why you would even attempt to claim otherwise. It also doesn't really strike me as a particularly honest approach to what is ultimately a relatively straightforward rules question that has been resolved by bringing up the actual rules.

This post contains multiple quotes that you then claim say entirely different things.

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Teridax wrote:
"Certain abilities" use the class's spell DC because they explicitly say so. There appears to be this extreme keenness to ask for justification on why class DC would apply here, yet an equal keenness to jump to the conclusion that one can just substitute spell DC at-will by default without providing a scrap of evidence in the rules for this.

"Certain abilities" is from your rules quote, and it was about Class DC...

The rules for Critical Specialization say to use Class DC when appropriate. That's why abilities that let you use Spell DC instead say so, because they're an exception.

Nobody said anything about substituting Spell DC for Class DC other than you.

Grand Lodge **

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Squark wrote:
Hopefully they will also automatically apply the weak/elite templates.

AoN already has that feature. There's a button near the top of any monster stat block.

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What debate?

The books explicitly state how it works. Some individual things have minor oversights, like Psi Burst not actually specifying its DC (but it's also really not unclear), but that's almost inevitable and really doesn't have anything to do with how Class DCs are calculated.

Grand Lodge

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Much like how certain things are red, therefore everything is red by default.

That is not at all what that says.
And abilities that use Class DC also explicitly specify it.

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I don't believe that is a rule.

Grand Lodge

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

You don't have to add sessions. You can just report them.

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Other than the fact that it makes sense, of course, since they measure entirely different things. Oh look, a reason! Why would Wizards be the best at critical specialization and other martial abilities just because their shield are difficult you resist?

As for casters "having" them, that would be in the rules for Class DC. Some of them aren't proficient, which means they'll be terrible at the things that use it, but being terrible isn't the same thing as the game not functioning because the value doesn't exist.

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

I haven't played 1-00 or 1-05 yet. 1-00 is pregens only though, right?

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If you make a Strike as part of the transcendence, it would be the one Ikon that prevents you from getting your bonus damage from your weapon.

Grand Lodge **

Huh. Okay, looks like a little glitch in the new website.

I don't see the sanctioning document linked on the store page for the physical book. It is on the store page for the PDF version, but the link isn't underlined like links usually are it otherwise marked (at least on mobile). The words "free download" are the link.

And you can always get Chronicles from RPG Chronicles.net.

As for Reputation, the reporter has to enter that. If you reported it, that's easy enough. Double-check it and edit it if it's missing.

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1. The next two characters I was planning to start are an awakened animal Commander (support) and a contemplative Magus (ranged combat).
2. Yes
3. Been using block Initiative for pbp for 20 years now
4. Sure

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Those actions are the classes' primary shticks.

Same with the Exemplar. Moving your Spark around to have different powers active is their entire gameplay concept.

Grand Lodge

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exequiel759 wrote:
Super Zero wrote:
Thaumaturge's extra damage requires actions and a check. Exemplars will almost always attack with a weapon Ikon active.
I'm not talking about exploit weakness, I'm talking about implement's empowerment which is quite literally the same bonus to damage exemplars get from their ikons except spirit damage and not limited to one-handed weapons.

Nope! That's the same extra damage that Exemplars can get by using a two-handed weapon, which my Exemplar does. The difference between them is that Thaumaturge is lock in to that option, while Exemplar has other options like weapon and shield.

That's a limitation Thaumaturges have. They give up use of a hand in combat for their class's flavor. Implement's Empowerment gives them the value of that hand back, but only by giving them the damage.

"exequiel759 wrote:
And I could mention others like the barbarian's rage which they can activate as a free action when rolling initiative, the fighter's or gunslinger's higher proficiencies which are obviously always on, the rogue's sneak attack which is pretty much a permanent boost to damage in 90% of turns, and the swashbuckler's precise strike damage.

Sneak Attack and Precise Strike require actions and maneuvering. Sure, Rogues don't attack without Sneak Attack. That still takes effort to get--more than the Exemplar, I'd say, having played both.

"exequiel759 wrote:
Ryangwy wrote:
Gaze as Sharp as Steel is your off turn weapon ikon, really. Does make you vulnerable to precision immunity but you're still better off than rogues and swashbucklers
Super Zero wrote:

You don't have an off turn.

If your weapon Ikon is active, you do any other attacks before you Transcend (although your Transcendence probably is your attack). If your weapon Ikon isn't active, you Transcend (or Shift Immanence) and then attack.

Someone said wrote:
Quoted material here....
It's unusual not to have your weapon Ikon active when you attack.
I would hardly call Gaze Sharp as Steel as better than what rogues and swashbucklers have as "still better off", but that's me I guess.

Pretty sure that their point was that you get both.

"exequiel759 wrote:

n the example I mentioned of a Gleaming Blade / Scar of the Survivor / Gaze Sharp as Steel exemplar, the most likely action rotation is going to be trascend with Gleaming Blade at the end of turn a) and shift immanence to Scar of the Survivor, and then trascend with Scar of the Survivor at the beggining of turn b) to shift immanence to Gleaming Blade to benefit from its damage boost and to repeat this routine again on the next turn. A +1 bonus to Perception checks and a +2 to AC against ranged attacks is IMO a situational bonus that, if you were to shift into it, would also mean you'll be trascending with your weapon ikon every 2 turns instead of every other turn. I just don't really see why I would want to do that in most scenarios since I'm actually nerfing my damage while doing that.

In the case of this particular exemplar I mentioned earlier, Gaze Sharp as Steel is going to pretty much always be the ikon you are never going to shift immanence into.

Okay, first of all "every other round" and "every two rounds" are the same thing.

Secondly, why are we treating the one you universally use outside of combat as never being used? It's the one you use the most!
Thirdly, Scar of the Survivor isn't useful to Transcend until you're damaged. Gaze Sharp as Steel is more useful until you are. And the Immanence is much more useful, if there are ranged enemies in the encounter.
Lastly, why is having a more niche ability a bad thing? My Exemplar usually swaps between Gleaming Blade and Gaze Sharp as Steel. But he also has Fetching Bangles as another trick to pull out when it's useful. You haven't actually made the case for why this is bad.

Trip.H wrote:

Heard that Exemplar allows one to throw a greatsword around?

Well, be sure that you know what that one word "Immanence:" means first. The moment the spark is not in the weapon, your ability to make throws is gone. And since you obviously invested that PC's budget into making throws instead of melee swings, you really, really need to know before the session that the ability will be constantly flipping on and off, else you're in for a bad time.

Except, as noted, you can easily have your weapon Ikon active when making your attached basically all the time.

Trip.H wrote:
The main low level example is that Only the Worthy feat. Bothering to read the linked action of Force Open reveals that it's a MAP action like Escape, and that it'll also be performed at a -2 most of the time. And it's not spark dependent. Even if you need Prone first, this is a PC defining power.

It also requires the target to use a specific skill, making it completely impossible to escape for everyone's that aren't proficient in that skill after a few levels.

That doesn't seem intended, and it should probably allow Escape. This is one that actually doesn't work right...

Grand Lodge

In that example you won't benefit from the precision damage because you've already used it. But I'm not sure what extra combo you're missing there.

Grand Lodge

You don't have an off turn.

If your weapon Ikon is active, you do any other attacks before you Transcend (although your Transcendence probably is your attack). If your weapon Ikon isn't active, you Transcend (or Shift Immanence) and then attack.

It's unusual not to have your weapon Ikon active when you attack.

Grand Lodge

Thaumaturge's extra damage requires actions and a check. Exemplars will almost always attack with a weapon Ikon active.

Grand Lodge **

William Vaughn wrote:
For the Lorespire Complication, How should it affect Race Points for that round? Is it one stage worse or should attempts at the complications be counted as rounds of the task.

That's what I did. Making a check to rescue Nib means you're not making a check for the task that round.

Which doesn't necessarily cost them any Race Points if the checks fall correctly, but it probably does.

Grand Lodge

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

Update: That was postponed to the 10th.

Grand Lodge **

Arita wrote:

It hilariously implies a HUGE quality drop from the standard the Society has from the Pathfinder days to the Starfinder days. Management just doesn’t care! Same with how the Starfinder Agent dedication gives you a lot less training than the Pathfinder one.

Back in the day, they’d teach my people like my kobold how to read and made sure to prepare her well for the problems she’d encounter in the field. Nowadays they give you a gun, some credits and go “good luck, Starfinder”!

You still get that, though, you just don't get the training on the Society's own history and such.

Grand Lodge

NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

A third of the Dispatch trainees advances, drawing a dagger and holding her cloak defensively.
◆ Draw weapon
◆ Stride
◆ Cloak and Dagger, granting her an AC bonus

Peat recognizes these trainees have been taught to work together in certain attack patterns.
They deal extra damage when there's an ally adjacent to their target.

★★★
Dispatching the Dispatch Round 1

Party Conditions: Due to Khione's... helpful narration, all Pathfinders have the Deny Advantage Rogue feature.
Battlemap

──────────
BOLD IS UP!:
──────────
Zisiro (34/30 HP) │ Spirit Trance, Taking Cover
Green Novice (- HP) │ Cloak and Dagger
Zuza the Scout (15/15 HP)
Orange Trainee (- HP) │ Cloak and Dagger
Purple Novice (- HP) │ Cloak and Dagger, Off-Guard to Zuza
➤ Clides (30/30 HP)
➤ Blueberry Peat (26/26 HP)
Red Trainee (- HP)
Agate Stark (16/16 HP)
⠀⠀Clanky (- HP)
Jared (18/18 HP)
Clides (- HP)

Grand Lodge

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Not only is the answer yes, that's... the only thing it does.

Instead of non-magical adventuring gear, you can gain a consumable. [Almost?] All consumables are either magical or alchemical.

Grand Lodge

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You keep saying "it doesn't have hands," as though that was a given, when that isn't supported by the rules (and clearly doesn't match the art or descriptions).

They can get the traits to gain the benefits of the traits. Attacks with those traits can also be upgraded with feats. That has nothing to do with being able to use the actions in the first place.

Having two unarmed attacks doesn't imply they can't grab things. What?

And the first attack choice deals the most damage. The extra trait is a bonus. The higher damage is attractive without it. It's kind of the default option for eidolons with higher Strength.

You can make any lethal attack nonlethal with a penalty (or vice versa). Heck, the Nonlethal trait is arguably a drawback. Sometimes you want to deal nonlethal damage, so it can be desirable, but it's never more powerful and sometimes it's less.

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A given ally only being able to use one Tactic per round is part of the Tactic trait.

"While you can use multiple tactic actions in a round, a character cannot respond to more than one tactic per round, regardless of source."

Grand Lodge **

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For aliases, go to My Account -> Account Settings and click the Edit button next to the alias in the list.

For Organized Play characters, go to the Summary tab under My Organized Play and click the Edit button on the right side next to the character you want to edit.

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

Huh, weird. This is my first time using it. Not sure how I managed to do that.

Grand Lodge

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Well, the most recent post in this thread was from before that book was released.

Grand Lodge

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There are no rules. Those are just descriptive.

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Focus spells aren't cantrips, and they can't be lower-ranked than your highest spell slot.

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That's because they're freely available. You don't need a boon.

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Some things also have a minimum (usually one), but that will be stated.

Grand Lodge

You use the DC of the item's level and the value of your level. Which is great.

Earning Income, then buying four medpatches. A level 3 character spends 8 days of downtime on a level 1 Earn Income task (for Society; for a home game this is a lot more variable and the character probably can't always use their best skill). DC 15 to earn 2 credits per day. For eight days that's 16 credits, assuming a success. For a level 3 Expert with +4 Int, that's +11. 5% crit failure for 0, 10% failure for 8 credits, 50% success for 16 credits, and 35% crit success for 24 credits.
.05 * 0 + .1 * 8 + .5 * 16 + .35 * 24 = 17.2 credits on average. Then spend the 120 for a total spent of 102.8.

Crafting four medpatches. 60 credits spent to get started. DC 14, so same odds of success.
On a critical failure, you lose 6 credits, then spend your remaining six days earning income before buying the medpatches. .05 * 0 + .1 * 6 + .5 * 12 + .35 * 18 - 6 - 120 = -106.7
On a failure, you salvage your 60 credits, then spend your remaining six days earning income. 12.9 earned, 120 spent, total of 107.1 spent.
On a success, you continue Crafting for six days earning 5 credits per day. That comes to 30. You spend the remaining 30 (or you could shelve the project and come back to it later, spending an additional six days later to finish it).
On a critical success, you continue Crafting for six days earning 8 credits per day for a total of 48. You spend the remaining 12.
.05 * -106.7 + .1 * -106.5 + .5 * -90 + .35 * -72 = an average of 86.185 spent on your medpatches. A savings of about 16 credits over Earning Income.

This gets easier and thus improves your success rate the lower the level of the item. Of course, if you want items closer to your level it'll get harder. It'll still be better value on a success compared to Earning Income, but the failure chance will be higher. And the downside of Crafting is the worse failure effects.
If you get an Earn Income gig of your own level that uses a skill as good as or better than your Craft, it'll be better than Crafting an item of your own level. But an item of lower level probably still wins, assuming you want the item.

Looks like I get exactly the same numbers as Squark (a good sign they're correct), but I thought showing the work might help.
Where did the 10% come from?

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

You can reserve 10 at a time, which then get skipped intentionally. That's a factor.

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

My number starts with 23 and I've had it for years.

I still have a few left from a set of new player cards I downloaded shortly after that. They start with 24.

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They were already granted, so probably too late.

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Easl wrote:
Super Zero wrote:
That's... exactly the same. Worse if you have any ongoing effects going. There's no benefit over just delaying the round at all.
I can't see any benefit in delaying until your next turn at all. In any game scenario I try to construct where you have a fighter friend in melee and you want to cast an AoE at the end of their turn, there is always a way to do that which doesn't involve delaying until your current initiative spot in the next round. The scenario I constructed above was really more about showing you can delay until your original initiative spot in the next round without technically doing a single delay for an entire round. Why would you ever want to do that? Nothing springs to mind.

Well no. That's why I said there wasn't. You're the one who suggested it as an exploit.

But that's... very specific. That's not the only situation where you'd Delay.

It's something that might come up if you were Delaying because you were waiting for something that never happened, perhaps. You're trying to talk the enemies down, so you give them a chance to stop fighting by holding your turn until they attack. They never do. You Delay for a round, although at that point you probably move out of Initiative.

Grand Lodge

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It absolutely means the start of your next turn. If you Delay an entire round, then it's just your next turn.

You generally don't want you do that, but here's what happens if you do.

And the round duration on cloak of colors is for the condition, not the spell. That's not created on the caster's turn, so it wouldn't tick down on their turn.
That can be an issue with reactions, though, sure. (...why can you Dismiss delay consequences?)

Grand Lodge

The Raven Black wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:

If it's 3:00:55 o'clock and you wait "an entire minute", is it 3:01:00 or 3:01:55?

That's the question.

Another way of phrasing it is that an entire round has passed when initiative has come round to you again.

I honestly believe this is the common mistake so many people, myself included, actually do.

Contrary to previous editions, a round is not a duration in PF2.

It is a period of time between 2 events : when the first in Initiative starts acting and when the last in Initiative ends acting.

Note how there is zero reference in the RAW to your original position in the initiative while you are still delaying.

That is because the period between your original position in the initiative in the round when you delayed and your original position in the following round does not actually define a round.

Saying it does is actually a houserule.

What defines a round is explicitly stated: from fastest's first action to slowest's last action.

Initiative does not "come round to you again" while you are still delaying.

A round is absolutely a duration, and your definition doesn't work anyway since your next turn has also passed.

Easl wrote:
katzazi wrote:
Even if a round is not a specific amount of time, a full round has passed, if the one before you has acted again and the one after you hasn't acted yet. (Assuming, that their position in the initiative order were not changed.)

It's an entirely self-inflicted situation though. A delayer can literally ensure that a full round never passes during one of their delays. Let's imagine there is A, B, and C in initiative order, and you are C.

Round 1, C's turn: 'I delay.'
Round 2, A has gone. C says "I re-enter the initiative order...now for my action, I delay."
Round 2, B has gone. C says "I re-enter the initiative order, and then act."

That's... exactly the same. Worse if you have any ongoing effects going. There's no benefit over just delaying the round at all.

Grand Lodge

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Beth Saville wrote:
So pretty much the animal companion is treated like a constuct.

No, they are well-trained animals that you're able to use in combat.

One of the most important things you want in a combat-trained animal is that it absolutely does not attack without being told. Obviously.

The fact that it does exactly what you want it to do is a good thing. It would be pretty bad if they didn't stay where you went them.
Why would they suddenly go faster, getting extra actions for no reason, even if they didn't?

Grand Lodge **

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Leshy also don't have to be from anywhere, since they're made and not born.

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

Likely. It's already posted on Discord.

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Claxon wrote:
As a GM, I would mostly pay attention to the fact that risky surgery will under optimal conditions, give you an additional 2d8 healing (critical success vs not critical success) at the cost of 1d8 damage. On average, it's a net of 4.5 hp increase. It's not worth the feat in the first place.

While not applicable to this question, since using Assurance blocks bonuses, Risky Surgery does also give a +2 circumstance bonus.

Grand Lodge

The risk in Risky Surgery is the damage. The result is more reliable--that's what the feat does.

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It's a Society adventure and doesn't have a sanctioning document, so it doesn't have any special rules for that (unless they're in the adventure pdf).

So it would use the normal rules for applying credit when playing a pregen.

Players do apply the Chronicle to a character of up to third level. They can make it a 1st-level or a 3rd-level Chronicle.
If it's 1st-level, they get credits for a 1st-level adventure. They don't get access to any boons or items on the Chronicle until the character reaches 3rd level.
If they take a 3rd-level Chronicle, they can apply it immediately to a 3rd-level character. If the character is lower level than that, they hold it and apply it immediately when the character reaches 3rd level.

Grand Lodge **

I don't think there are any adventures for that level yet, so there's no real difference.

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NG Male Human Author - check out my work!

I just registered to run 3-11.

Grand Lodge **

Huh. If you signed up on this website, that number should already be linked to your account.
The system with the cards and the confirmation numbers exists so that new players who go to in-person events without signing up in advance can still get a player number and credit for their games.

So yes, if that's the case than you probably need to contact support, I'm afraid.

Unless your friend downloaded more cards on their account? In which case they made that more complicated than they needed to, but they should have the file with the confirmation numbers.

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