Ok so my friend wants to make a character for the new game coming up. the one I will be playing my Arcanist in. However his only premise currently is he wants to make one hell of a swordsmen, perhaps a duelist but he wants this guy to be extremely good with a sword. Not so much magic but that could help. He really just wants to be able to go into a non-magic environment and still be just as good with his sword, without me throwing buffs on him.
He likes the Swashbuckler mechanics of their deeds, like Parry and Riposte if that helps.
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He should probably be a Fighter. Being the best there is at handling weapons and armor is precisely what they do. If he likes Swashbucklers, there are feats that non-Swashbucklers can take that grant a modicum of swashbuckling ability - using the variant multiclassing system to pick up a few Swashbuckler abilities would be a great idea, but unfortunately, I don't think they've published any of that for the hybrid classes (you could cook up your own schema for him to that end, though).
Well he didnt say he wants to be the cliche armored tank swinging the greatsword around. Because lets face it, it is almost always a Greatsword.
Swashbuckler and Daring Champion Cavelier are being considered because people say Swashbuckler is weaker.
He just wanted to be sure when it came to using a sword he was quite able at it.
Magus with Kensai and bladebound are good ideas, I will suggest them. I dont think either of us have played with a bladebound mechnics
The Daring Champion is out and out fantastic with a sword, and will pick up what he likes about the Swashbuckler while more or less straight-up upgrading the Swashbuckler itself. Add in some of the Orders and the benefits they provide, and you can be a truly powerful swordsman.
I do have a PDF for a third party material to allow a person using Panache and specifically the Precise Strike deed to deal dex to damage with two weapons tagged onto a Daring Champion I told him dealing Level+Dex to damage twice a turn (With two rapiers or whatever) would be great, adding Challenge onto that makes you undisputed in damage output for someone not raging/pouncing/charging
What does he mean by "best"?
What else does he want the character to do?
From what he said he wants to be able to deal the most damage possible, but also have some good access to things like Disarms and such.
From what he said he wants to be able to deal the most damage possible, but also have some good access to things like Disarms and such.
Hm. Pretty wide open there. I can even see some Fighter or Barbarian builds sneaking into this one.
What does he want to do, if anything, outside a fight?
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I hope you're not starting at level 1, if he wants to immediately be "The Best Swordsman in the World".
Starting at 1 but wanting to work into he just wants to be on the right path.
Outside he wants to be more Cha based, basically he wants to be the charming swordsmen from fantasy movies.
That's Swashbuckler then.
Thanks for all the current input
Fighter makes the best swordsman of them all, bar none. The question is whether he wants to be defensive, offensive, and how much armor he wants to have.
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Fighter makes the best swordsman of them all, bar none. The question is whether he wants to be defensive, offensive, and how much armor he wants to have.
That's pretty debatable. I find most martials are pretty even at swinging a sword if built right, it's all the other stuff a class can do that's usually the determining factor for what I'd like to play or suggest to people. Fighter doesn't do a lot other than swing a sword. They're probably the most versatile as to how you want to swing that sword though.
Why not Ninja?
Fighter makes the best swordsman of them all, bar none. The question is whether he wants to be defensive, offensive, and how much armor he wants to have.That's pretty debatable. I find most martials are pretty even at swinging a sword if built right, it's all the other stuff a class can do that's usually the determining factor for what I'd like to play or suggest to people. Fighter doesn't do a lot other than swing a sword though.
I wonder now ... given that Fighter has all those combat feats available, would that free up enough normal ones to build a party face with enough Charisma going in?
I wonder now ... given that Fighter has all those combat feats available, would that free up enough normal ones to build a party face with enough Charisma going in?Fighter makes the best swordsman of them all, bar none. The question is whether he wants to be defensive, offensive, and how much armor he wants to have.That's pretty debatable. I find most martials are pretty even at swinging a sword if built right, it's all the other stuff a class can do that's usually the determining factor for what I'd like to play or suggest to people. Fighter doesn't do a lot other than swing a sword though.
Might as well go Unchained Rogue at that point.
Swashbuckler is easier early on, but past level 4 Daring Champion is pretty much entirely superior in my experience.
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I actually made a build for this rather recently. It isn't that complex, and it pretty fun.
Swashbuckler(Inspired Blade) 1
Fighter(Lore Warden+Ustalavic Duelist) 19 (this has to be okayed by you as both of these archetypes alter armour and weapon proficiencies, honestly just give him no weapon and armour proficiencies, he already has the ones from swashbuckler)
VMC Magus
The only required feats for this are rapier finesse(able to be grabbed at level 1) and Extra Magus Arcana at 9th to pick up precise strike. Your damage is pretty dang good at level 9+, while still being competitive at lower levels.
Don't worry about not getting the fighter capstone as you essentially get a lesser version of it at 19th because of Lore Warden.
I know it has been mentioned before, but I will advocate sohei.
Sohei are monks built for actual melee damage. They get weapon training like the fighter (enough to get gloves of dueling for an extra +2 to attack/damage), and they can flurry in light armor/mithral medium (which just simplifies your AC and makes it easier to get early on, and doesn't need you to buy a bunch of magical items for good AC)
So what are the advantage of sohei as a swordsman? Well, you can use a single sword and do every hit in a flurry with it.
Sohei also have some fairly decent sword options as well. They get temples swords as usual, they get the 9 ringed sword since they have martial weapon proficiency, and they can get nodachis (greatsword sized katana, basically) if they take weapon training in polearms (weird, I know, but they have more in common with polearms than butterknives- ie- they are not for back alley shankings)
For a better ability to master pretty much all swords, I suggest Human, with the Adoptive Parentage alternate Racial Trait(not the Race Trait), and choose Tengu, for their Weapon Familiarity.
Unfortunately, it is not 'weapon familiarity' the term. So I am pretty sure it doesn't count.
Yes, I know, it is a similar mechanic...but not the exact same one.
You can gain weapon focus in any sword you want, if that makes you feel any better. That can help ease problems for 3/4 BAB class.
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Depends what kind of swordsmanship he is looking for. I got a character that can kill almost anything in one strike using vital strike tree, a bloodrager. He is kind of like a magical swordsman/warrior that can pick up almost anything and kill things in one strike. Only 5% chance to fail. Perfect in a duel, but suck at most other things.
If you want sword to sword fight, go fighter. Want to be a mounted swordsman, Samurai. Sneaky one, rogue or slayer. Best swordsman against certain thing, Ranger. Many types of swordsmanship, he have to decide which one he wants.
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1 Inspired blade Swashbuckler/X Empiricist Investigator
Fencing Grace will be your First level feats and I suggest Discovery Quick study at 5. And Mutagen asap as well. Mixed with Cat's grace (Alchemy) he can easily walk around with 24-28 Dex with dex to damage and use abilities like Parry and Riposte. All the while being godly with skills.
He drinks instead of casts so he could work in a drunkard theme like the deity Cayden.
Is third party material allowed in the game? Because if so some of the Path of War options by Dreamscarred Press could work well with making a Master Swordfighter.
Oh if third party is an option, I'd also recommend the swordmaster class from Dreadfox Games. It's a lot of fun to play and extremely well balanced.
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I built a Weapon Master fighter once who specialized in the Longsword. High Strength and Intelligence of 13 was all he needed. Focused every weapon feat he could on longsword, and went for Combat Expertise into Disarm, Trip, and Dirty Trick.
He used heavy armor, so not really a swashbuckler, but he was never at a loss for doing something cool in commbat and his high strength meant that he hit often and hard.
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Bard. Just: Bard. He won't be the Best Swordsman Ever, but he can make anyone believe he is...