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Ahoy! Leaving aside Ultimate Intruige.... I've been thinking about this one for a while and I have to say I like the feel of it. I do think though in order to get it to work, an archetype wouldnt be enough - it would have to be a distinct class IMO. Whether it would have to tow the line and go CHA casting like the Oracle and Sorceror is also open to debate.... How about.... Elemental Soul ???
With the upcoming 'Horror Adventures' and 'Strange Aeons' and general lack of decent cleric archetypes, I thought I'd give it a whirl!! Thoughts and feedback always appreciated!
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier. This alters the cleric's class skills. Weapon and armour proficiency
Restricted Domain
Spontaneous casting and summoning
Forbidden lore
Gift of the Chosen
7th level: Paranoia (Will DC 15). The character is convinced that the world and all that dwell within it are out to get him. Effect: –4 penalty on Will saves and Charisma-based skill checks; cannot receive benefit from or attempt the Aid Another action; cannot willingly accept aid (including healing) from another creature. Duration: D6 rounds - these do not have to be consecutive and can be chosen by the GM. 14th level: Schizophrenia (Will DC 20). The character has lost his grip on reality, and can no longer tell the difference between what is real and what is not.
20th level: Psychosis (Will DC 25). This complex insanity fills the victim with hate for the world. He cannot help but plot and plan the death and destruction of his friends and enemies alike. In such cases, the GM should assume control of the character whenever his psychosis is in control. Effect: Character becomes chaotic evil Duration: D6 rounds - these do have to be consecutive but can be chosen by the GM.
Any more obediences coming up that anyone knows of?
Just stumbled upon this bit of belated cheer... Seems very good for a trait if youre an evil cleric since your domain spells are automatically part of your class list. And RAW you can get it more than once.... therefore for the price of 1 feat, all of your domain spells are cast at +1 level. Seems almost essential if you have a cleric archetype that reduces domains to 1.
Having been consistently disappointed with the cleric archetypes available (Herald Caller aside :)) ), I thought I would have a go at my own. My personal preference would be a new D6 1/2 BAB class but Paizo seems bizarrely reluctant to do one (despite the obvious demand for it!) Here we go.... tell us what you think.... Some clerics become completely obsessed about the specialised powers and spells that are offered by their deity, to the extent that they almost completely forgo other parts of their religious training. Other members of the clergy can see them as zealots, unbalanced and lacking in perspective, but they see themselves as bastions of purity and are granted magical access
Weapon and armour proficiency The Domain Savant is only proficient with the dagger, club and quarterstaff, forgoing even their deity’s favoured weapon. Due to his dedication to divine lore, he is only proficient with light armour and cannot gain medium armour or shield proficiency. This replaces the cleric's weapon and armour proficiencies. Obsessive student The Domain Savant is talented at utilising magical items to maximise their potential in the name of their deity. He receives Utilise Magic Device as a bonus class skill. Due to their studious nature, any UMD checks utilise the players Intelligence modifier not their Charisma as would normally be the case. Also they receive a bonus feat at 5th and 10th level - this may be any item creation, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration or Metamagic feat. Finally, they find views and opinions contrary to their own difficult to understand and as such lose Diplomacy as a class skill and receive a -5 penalty to any checks made against it. This alters the cleric's class skills. Spontaneous casting Due to the focussed nature of their calling, the Domain Savant loses the ability to spontaneously cast cure (or inflict spells). This alters the cleric's class skills. Channeling The Domain Savant is an obsessive and as such completely loses the ability to channel positive or negative energy. This alters the cleric’s channel ability. Divine Awakening Unlike a normal cleric who may choose 2 domains from their deity’s list and gains the powers and domain spells from both, the Domain Savant has a wider variety of options gifted to them in reward for their piety and sacrifice. Firstly, they receive 2 domain spell slots per level instead of just 1. Secondly, every day from their deity’s list of domains/subdomains, they may select either the powers or the spells from 4 of their available domains/subdomains, or any combination of the two. Their choice is determined every day when they prepare their spells. For example, a Domain Savant of Pharasma could take just the powers from the Death, Healing, Knowledge (Memory) and Water (Flowing) domains, just the domain spells from Death (Psychopomp), Knowledge (Thought), Repose and Water domains, or alternatively the powers from the Healing (Resurrection) and Knowledge domains as well as the spells from the Water (Ice) and Repose (Psychopomp) domains. This alters the cleric’s normal domain ability.
Anyone fancy being Xmassy and putting up the lowdowns for the antipaladin and cleric archetypes? :))
Just brought this up in another thread....a thought to somehow get some mileage out of the Ecclesitheurge.... A scribe scroll based Ecclesitheurge build..... Most cleric deities have 4-5 domains and 4-5 subdomains - with the associated differing domain spells and the ECC can rotate through these. Now if you got your UMD up to a good level (traits, feats, CHA, equipment, skill ranks), you could go through these fairly easily scribing scrolls as you went, giving you a good increase in the spells available to you. Yes you have a DC 20 + CL to pass but its extremely do-able, especially considering you get a further +2 on your check if you have attempted it with the same item before. You can potentially make it less of a burden feat/trait wise by making one of your domains always Glory (to get the CHA bonus) but this means restricting your deity choice or going cleric of a concept. All going well you can also start talking to wizards and druids to start scribing even more scrolls with useful spells.... Very niche.... but potentially quite useful..... Any thoughts on good domain/subdomain combos to get the most number of non-cleric spells?
Anyone know where/if I can see them ?
With the Exalted PRC from Inner Sea Gods it states for Expanded Portfolio: At 5th level, the exalted further increases her already impressive knowledge of her chosen deity's faith and is rewarded with increased powers in one of the spheres over which her deity holds sway. The exalted chooses a domain of her chosen deity to which she gains access, using her exalted level as her effective cleric level. The exalted can also can use each of the chosen domain's spells once per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to her exalted level. The exalted can use each spell-like ability only if she is able to cast divine spells of that level. If the exalted has any domain spell slots, she is also able to cast the chosen domain's spells in those slots as normal. I understand that the ability to cast domain spells as SLA 1/day scales off the Exalted level but I'm guessing that does not apply if they are cast from normal domain slots (ie they are cast as per spellcasting level)- hence the phrase as normal? Leading on from this, if that is the case, I assume the same would apply if a cleric was scribing the domain spell to a scroll?
Hi all As the title suggests.... what would you say are the essential books for 1st time PF DMing ?? I am planning on having a tablet to hand too for access to www.d20pfsrd.com Cheers
I will probably be starting a Call of Cthulu adventure soon and it got me wondering, I know there are Evil and some Neutral elder gods but could there be some Good or Lawful aligned ones designed in the pipeline? I saw somewhere there is scheduled a publication regarding the Elder Gods?
Now before anyone goes ape, I'm not suggesting an exact duplicate of the 3.5 version! However, I do genuinely think that with some tweaks it could solve 3 inter-related problem areas: 1) The general terribleness of channeling 2) The general boredom/blandness/underpowered nature of cleric class abilities 3) Paizo reluctance to do a decent cleric archetype! ;) For starters some ideas for feat pre-requisites to keep it harder to access: 1) WIS at least 18
The general gist is that your channel dice are converted into DMM points, so... eg) 6D6 channel = approx 20 points. This is determined afresh each day. Obviously the ability replaces regular channeling. You could then have at list of abilities that could be activated as a swift action.... differing abilities costing differing numbers of points.. Thoughts??
Lets say a Cleric with X domain spells come across a scroll of a domain spell from a Cleric with Y domain... Now being that when it comes to casting, domain spells are classed as divine irrespective of the class spell list they came from, what is the situation of Cleric X casting the spell from the scroll of Cleric with Y domain ??
I'm looking at DMing a PF campaign and I'm looking for a suitable starter... I have DMed previosuly but it was a few years ago and was 3.5. Any ideas on a good campaign to run for someone with a few DM cobwebs and a newbie to PF DMing ? Cheers
This Oracle Archetype is released LOL....Doomsaying ability?!!?!? "Oracle II - Revenge of the OP Heretic."
Dont know if any member of the Paizo team can answer this but how often is the above updated with the ongoing new material?
I think the changes in the errata were definitely justified but didn't I think go quite far enough. Quite simply... I see the Arcanist as an uber-geek, obsessed with the inner workings of spells and having little time for physical pursuits (much like the real life geek!). The equivalent of the IT hacker nerd (sorry if I offend anyone!) Thus... I think to truly be a hybrid class of Wizard and Sorceror, its spell save DC's should be CHA based. This ties in with its exploits being CHA based. I know this would mean fewer points available for physical stats but I see it as a good power balancer and thematically appropriate considering the class concept. As well having 2 casting stats is not unusual. Thoughts...?? Next PART 2: Shaman
Hi all Looking out for any gamers possibly interested in getting a regular PF game going in the above regions ?
First up I have to say I am happy Paizo decided to apply the nerf bat, but I will say in the never ending CASTER vs MARTIAL debate, the martials came off relatively much worse than the casters which I did think was unbalanced. I do think in the errata it didnt go far enough as regards the casters. BUT... I am not one for trying to create complete system balance as it was this IMO that was the undoing of 3.5 as it transitioned into 4e.... and nobody wants PF to go down the same path. So, sensible suggestions on tweaks to any casters,(focussed more on the 9th's than the 6ths probably but all ideas welcome!)...
I cant help but feel that since the Arcanist has been brought down a notch, the Exploiter should be too. IMO the Exploiter is a conceptually highly dubious archetype to begin with but yet is completely untouched in the errata. It was designed so that the wizard didnt get too upset by the new kid on the block not through any design/RP need. A decrease in Arcanist power should be matched by the Exploiter.
Hi all Is there a forum somewhere on the site dedicated to people finding groups/other gamers for PF/3.5 ?
Am putting together a build for a summoning specialist cleric using the Herald Caller archetype... Now with the bonus feats of Augment Summons and Superior Summons and using Sacred Summons, I am very tempted to go with the Dark Tapestry domain as my single domain to really go summoner specialist with being able to add the advanced creature template. However..... this ability is only 1/day so do you think its worth it? Is it too much of a specialisation? Balancing that the Void domain is generally pretty good and it would enable me to be a worshipper of an Outer God or Great Old One for some good RP and the Dreamed Secrets feat. In addition, are there any races that are better for summoning PC's than others? Cheers
Am putting together a build for a summoning specialist cleric using the Battle Herald archetype... Now with the bonus feats of Augment Summons and Superior Summons and using Sacred Summons, I am very tempted to go with the Dark Tapestry domain as my single domain to really go summoner specialist with being able to add the advanced creature template. However..... this ability is only 1/day so do you think its worth it? Is it too much of a specialisation? Balancing that the Void domain is generally pretty good and it would enable me to be a worshipper of an Outer God or Great Old One for some good RP and the Dreamed Secrets feat. In addition, are there any races that are better for summoning PC's than others? Cheers
Just noticed on d20pfsrd.... Could be a mistake as it says druid or is this a typo or is it available to both clerics and druids?
Can someone layout (or make a sticky) as to how you insert hyperlinks? Cheers
Is there any way for a cleric to gain access to the 1st level domain powers of another domain that he currently doesnt have? Via a feat or item ?
Quick query (I would hyperlink but for the life of me I cant figure out how!)... Using the guidelines set out under creating magic items, how much would it cost to buy say a +5 bonus (profane or luck) to intitaive on a ring? Would it be 5 squared x 1000 gp ?
I don't know whether the horse has bolted regarding the errata for the ACG and potential changes but I thought I'd put this forward... I am the first to admit that I have been critical of the ACG and its hybrid classes, and I do feel the Ecclesitheurge was a golden opportunity not properly taken.... BUT it is a step in the right direction towards giving the cleric class some badly needed life and rebalancing the power shift that has occured with the enhancement of the Oracle and Shaman. What I did like the look of however in terms of potential was 'Blessing of the Faithful'... in particular its ability to use channeling slots to assist in longer duration buffing. The ability was traded off for 1D6 channel dice. My idea is why not extend this? A significant part of the problem with the cleric class is that its class abilities are tied up in channels. Why not have the Ecclesitheurge trade more of them off for other abilities? After all the objective was to make it more "caster". Currently the Ecclesitheurge has a max channel of 9D6.... why not take this down to 6 or 7D6 and give back something in return? With a 6D6 channel say... it still has relevance in terms of BOTF or healing but now you have given the cleric class something that it sorely lacks... options and flavour! Example.... Higher Blessing = the bonus given from BOTF is increased to +4 - this is in exchange for the D6 increase in channeling at 11th level. OR channel dice could be traded off for bonus feats... a 3D6 channel trade off could equate to say a bonus feast at 8th and 15th? OR channel dice could be used for a short duration access to matamagic. I know there are space constrictions but I really do feel that something could be done with tweaking BOTF that would not increase the word count in a significant way AND give the class a real bit of life back.... it is looking very tired and downtrodden!!
I've made no bones that I thought several of the classes released in the ACG were poorly thought out and were very OP to the extent that a few of the core/base classes have now almost been made redundant. Character concepts could have been far more easily achieved with simply providing more archetypes and tweaks through feats.... with the added benefit that classes were enriched rather than eradicated. The question is.... in the future will we look back on the ACG as the point at which PF started on a downward spiral? Did character creation for the sake of character creation and profit hunger win out over common sense?
Since Paizo have been bizarrely reluctant to do the decent thing by the cleric and sort out his multitude of issues... I have a suggestion for a quick and easy fix..... the 3.5 Archivist! a) It provides a proper caster focussed cleric in a quick and easy fashion b) It gives a wealth of character options that are so gravely needed for the class c) It is already well balanced
Hello Paizo... I know you are the ones writing out the errata for the ACG but I thought you might be interested in some honest but constructive feedback regarding the Ecclesitheurge and some possible tweaking in the errata. I am not a designer or a writer but I do have 20+ years worth of RPG experience which I would like to think counts for something! I freely admit I thought the Ecclesitheurge was extremely poorly designed and is one of the worst cleric archetypes available which considering how bad the existing archetypes are, is saying something!
GAINS
LOSSES
Even viewing the above on a superficial level, it is clear that the cons definitely outweigh the pros. Viewed on a deeper level the problems are magnified. My rationale for this is as follows: • The ability to swap out a second domain is OK but nothing to get excited about since the domains in general are not that great. Some are good but many of them offer very little in terms of impact or flavour - lacking sufficient domain powers to make them of much worth. • The bonded item is OK again but I feel should have given the option to acquire a familiar. This could have been done and worded as a form of spiritual ally - potentially opening up some great ideas for adding flavour to the class. • The ability to prepare the primary domain in non-domain slots lacks impact. To be honest from the get go, the cleric should have the ability to prepare at least one of his domains in regular slots. Having 2 domains but only having the ability to cast one of them once per day is very underpowered and yet again robs the class of impact and flavour. • I am full agreement with the reduction in weapon proficiency and in actual fact think you only did half the job. If you’re going to create a more caster focussed cleric, then does it properly - give them the option of only using their deities’ favoured weapon and say a staff. This like the armour could state explicitly that any deviation from this results in the removal of all powers. This is more thematically correct IMO and would enable you to give more in return in terms of powers/skills and thus flavour. • The removal of armour/shield is correct but as stated previously is not compensated for adequately. By going down this path you rightly take away a significant chunk of not only the cleric’s potential melee capability, but also inadvertently its hugely significant role of being able to assist the party (close air support style) in combat via buffs/anti-buffs/heals/harms. If the intent is to distance the cleric more that’s fine but you don’t give anything in way of compensating for the fact that the cleric is now significantly more vulnerable. If the idea is for the cleric to carry on as before providing CAS (close air support) then you need to help facilitate this because as it stands this is a very poor choice indeed. • The reduction is channelling power on the surface seems minor, but it opens up one of the biggest problems with the class IMO...... channelling is fairly poor overall. As a healing tool it is moderately useful at lower levels but even then demands feat investment to make it work effectively - this being a significant problem for a very feat stared class. In addition since it keys off Charisma this only accentuates one of the Cleric’s biggest problems - its MAD nature. Realistically you have to have a Charisma of 16 to make it worthwhile which even in a 25 point game is a major issue let alone in a 10 or 15 point game. As the you level up is becomes significantly less worthwhile - being able to heal on average 35 points of damage at 20th level is to be honest a bit of joke. The joke is made even worse when you analyse the fact that the cleric is just about one of the only classes with no capstone ability.... truly a massive slap in the face. Negative channelling is more effective but again only with significant feat investment and realistically choosing half-elf as your race. This yet again significantly limits its impact and flavour to the class as a whole.
I hope you can see something patently needs sorting out. Here are some suggestions for the Ecclesitheurge. Some of these ideas are related as well to the ceric class as a whole and may serve to provide ideas for future developments. I am not suggesting necessarily that all should be implemented but I feel they are all certainly viable options: 1) As suggested above, reduce further the weapon capability so as to be more thematically correct but to also give the option of being more appropriate in compensation. 2) Grant a permanent 3rd domain. If you feel this would be too much to offer from the start (a point that I would disagree with giving the current power/flavour level of domains in general) - you could have the 3rd domain only kick in at a later level say 6th or 7th. Another related option would be the ability to prepare both domain spells in non-domain slots or alternatively give the class 2 domain slots instead of one. 3) You have to make your mind up what to do either in making sure that the armour starved Ecclesitheurge isn’t obliterated in attempting to assist party members or suitably compensated/changed for becoming more distance caster focussed, akin to wizard/sorcerers. 4) Sort out channelling. IMO this is overall a very underwhelming ability especially at higher levels... multiple wands of CLW + higher level heal spells in general is more often than not enough to solve most problems. Leaving this aside, the reduction of 1D6 is petty and pointless. A possible idea would be to have the Ecclesitheurge choose from a range of divine options at first level; one of these could be the ability to channel but with selective channelling thrown in for free. This would at least reduce the feat burden on the feat starved cleric. Giving a player the choice of opting in or out of channelling would open all kinds of possibilities for the class. Alternatives to channelling such as extra feats, spell options from other lists or special abilities would serve to provide proper balance but also add some much needed flavour.
5) 4+ skill points per level. Not only is the cleric feat starved but it’s also skill starved! This is something that has been apparent for years and needs sorting. For a class that is supposed to be the backbone of the party this is an area that has a gaping hole. 6) D6 hit points. At the moment the Ecclesitheurge is a D8 class but very vulnerable.... thus making the possession of D8 HP largely redundant. Give it D6 HP and some compensation to do the job properly. This should be combined with wizard BAB (possibly even worse a la the ‘Archivist’ from 3.5) which would be entirely thematically appropriate. A huge number of people have been clamouring for a D6 divine class for years.... it really is a gaping hole and as I keep on saying a great opportunity to add flavour. 7) I have been recently writing up a D6 divine class called ‘The Apostle’ which has as one of its special abilities - ‘The Stigmata’..... for the blood sacrifice of HP the ability to power up spells. Something along these lines could be thought over... To summarise, I completely understand issues regarding space in publications. But let’s be honest, a great many people have spoken at length on the forums over the validity and OP nature of several of the classes released in the ACG (the Arcanist being a prime example) and so to say as an excuse there wasn’t enough space for the Ecclesitheurge is a complete joke and indicative of how badly divine classes have been treated under Pathfinder. D&D 3.5 gave a much better and balanced representation of the divine classes and subsequently more people enjoyed playing clerics. Pathfinder has done (and continues to do) very little in this regard and so we are left with classes like the Ecclesitheurge which are very underpowered, and completely lacking in balance and flavour. As one of the 4 original classes, the cleric deserves more respect than it currently gets. It is a class that offers a vast amount of RP possibilities that is at the moment severely hampered. The Ecclesitheurge is quite possibly the poster child for highlighting this issue....... extremely poorly designed. Finally, 3PP have answered the calls of customers effectively and provided effective archetypes. Some do take up more space than others, but certainly in the case of the priest and theosophist, some excellent variation is achieved in not a lot of space. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/kobold-press /theosophist
As shown above.....The proof is in the pudding Paizo.... do what should have been done..... sort out the Ecclesitheurge (and by default, the Cleric) PROPERLY.....
What are your thoughts on a 1 level monk dip? I've got a caster focussed cleric but he's not a wussy stay at the back type... he's still truly in the mix buffing/debuffing etc... He will be completely unarmoured and will rely on pre-buffs and items to get his AC up... Hence my thoughts of the dip.... I know I will be behind a level on spells but.... Benefits: Bump on reflex save, couple of extra skill points, acrobatics as a class skill (using buffs I intend to be very speedy and bouncing in and out of combat), massive AC bump - Wis to AC and bonus dodge feat Is it worth the trade off?
Evening all! I don't suppose there is someone kind out there willing to post up any details of new divine spells from the ACG?
Evening all.... Much like the rest of you I am very excited for the release of the ACG.. should be interesting! BUT..... Can anyone give me a breakdown of the Ecclesitheurge archetype? As much as its good that they have given us what I'm seeing is an unarmoured priest type class... I have a feeling of dissapointment forboding!! I've seen a couple of bits and bobs but not the full picture of the archetype. The class has such huge potential IMO and with 3PP publishers showing what can be done with the cleric class (Priest, theosophist), I just hope they have done it justice but I fear NOT!! The cleric class IMO got seriously over nerfed from 3.5 and Paizo have done very little to address the imbalance.... from day 1 it has been clear that they really dont like the cleric at all! And from what I hear the Warpriest has been nerfed even more whilst the Arcanist is completely and obviously OP!!! Leaving aside the fact that neither class was necessary IMO....the Arcanist now OPs both the wizard and sorceror (2 classes that already dont need any extra juice!) I hope to be wrong but I dont think I am.... the D6 1/2 BAB divine class that offers so much potential both in gameplay and roleplay has not transpired. A bit tragic I fear.... :((
There's been some great discussion in the other thread but now its time from some proper quantitative feedback for Paizo... Simple... cast your vote... no comments.... Warpriest or Priest I haven't give 'Both' as an option because I think Paizo need to see decision making and not fence sitting. ;) Priest
In a quicky game at the mo with an Inquisitor and Warpriest in the party to see how the two fared in comparison... and I have to say things are going poorly for the Warpriest. He's desperately trying to fulfill a role that doesn't really exist and the Inquisitor is showing him how its done. The blessings just don't add up.... I do hate to go over this again Paizo but as predicted the Warpriest has IMO achieved zero. A D6 pure caster is the only divine class left worth exploring
First up... well done on creating the guide. I have been a fan since Day 1 and you have a truly quality product that has come a long way in a short time and I'm certain this will be another success. BUT... Although I obviously haven't seen the guide yet, I have to say the notion of the Warpriest disappoints and confuses me. I truly cannot see the need for this class when there are Paladins, Inquisitors, Holy Vindicators and basically several ways of easily creating more martial clerics/oracles within the current framework. I cannot see where the class fits in or how it will enrich the game?? HOWEVER... What is patently clear is that a more pure, casting divine class (similar in concept to the 3rd party - TOS Priest class) is absolutely cried out for in the current make up. It would complete perfectly the divine lineage from pure divine caster all the way up to Paladin and provide opportunity to iron out some issues within the divine classes. I know I am but one spawny toad but I know many others feel the same.... so come on gents make us a wizard BAB/HP/armour/weapons divine caster and complete the lineage! You know it makes not just sense.... but perfect sense! Any feedback from the 'Powers That Be' would be appreciated.
Am looking at building a Priest (Tome of Secrets) and was after some initial thoughts/feedback... My DM has agreed that I dont have to take the Knowledge domain but that to keep it balanced and logical I will lose the Bardic knowledge ability too. So Im thinking domains of Travel, Ash and Luck ??? In addition Im making his race Samsaran and using the Adept list for my alternate spells (or does anyone think Druid would be a better bet?) My big dilemma is whether to take a 1 level dip in fighter - thus generating 2 extra feats, a bit of extra HP and BAB but more importantly Heavy Armour Prof..... this I thought was critical as I did want survivabililty to compensate for my D6 HP and my slightly lower Con than I would have taken as a regular Cleric, plus as Im the only healer in the party, I will be finding myself in harms way from time to time. What do you think of the above potential (IMO it has some serious ass whupping potential) and is the dip worth it Vs being 1 level behind in my spellcasting? |
