Salder's page

Rules in question for discussion.

SFS Standard
Networked Android
Source Player Core pg. 43 Winter 2025
Your body was modified to network seamlessly with other tech creatures. You gain shortwave, allowing you to communicate wirelessly with any creatures within 30 feet, as long as they have shortwave or are a construct with the tech trait. This doesn't give any special access to their thoughts or programming and communicates no more information than normal speech would. You can attempt Computers checks to Hack systems, Combat Hack, create a Digital Diversion, Disable a Device, or Pick a Lock without a hacker's toolkit or free hand at a range of 30 feet.

Source Player Core pg. 225 Winter 2025
Prerequisites trained in Computers
You've learned how to hack using alternative methods. You can use Computers to Disable a Device or Hack a system using any computer, comm unit, or terminal instead of a hacking toolkit. If you're an expert in Computers and the equipment you use is at least 3rd level, you gain a +1 item bonus to Disable a Device or Hack.
Special If you have the Combat Hack or Digital Diversion skill feat, you can use this feat to Combat Hack or Create a Diversion without a hacking toolkit.

It seems like Networked Android is better than the Phreaker skill feat in every situation I can think of.

This comes up for androids since the Artificial Scion Android heritage seems strictly worse then networked android.

Can any of yall think of edge cases I missed?

Drones have low strength scores.

If you toss an industrial backpack on one does this apply to it?

When wearing a properly fitted industrial backpack, you treat your Strength score as 2 higher for the purpose of determining your carrying capacity.

I haven't found anything that would stop it and wanted to check.

Every armor has a comm unit built in to it. Comm units are treated as tier 0 computers. By default they have no upgrades or modules. Say you want to install an artificial personality into your comm unit. How much should that cost?

The comm unit itself came free so is the cost 0 credits?

Does the armor used matter at all?

I was leaning towards free for things that rely on a percentage of the cost of the computer, but I wanted to hear different perspectives. Any input?

I am not sure if I should post this here or the advice/pathfinder forum. I decided on this one. I want to be clear that this is a relatively minor issue.

There have been several instances where I go to use a minor ability that isn't just attacking something. I pull up all relevant rules for what I plan to do on the turn before it comes to me. The issue that has made me decide to post here was bizarre from my end at least. I don't really do social interactions well so I might be missing something.

I won't post spoilers but we were in a cave area and everyone except our Soldier had darkvision. I was going to spend an action to activate the flashlight built in to the personal comm unit built in to every armor. He began asking why I had a flashlight in my hands. I just flipped the device I was using with my pdf around with the section highlighted and said that every armor has a built in flashlight.

He responded with a groan and said in a deadpan, "No". When I asked why he just kept saying no.

It has slowly developed like this. The general theme is just ignoring mechanics that aren't just basic attacks. In pathfinder 2e lifting a light object using mage hand doesn't work because reasons. In pathfinder 1e chill touch wasn't allowed to sneak attack because reasons. It was all minor things that had clear cut rules but he just ignored direct rules quotes.

Whenever I brought this up with the person in charge of the lodge it was always waved off. Oh it is no big deal that's just how he is. Am I missing something? Is there anything I can do to address this?

First a bit of background for context. I semi recently moved my isolated library group into the normal PFS lodge in my area. Things are fine in that regard. There is one player from the PFS lodge that has been playing since to quote him "before I was born". When playing first edition together he would drag combat to a crawl because he would only play pregens and then never read anything about his character. I am not exaggerating here is some incidents to illustrate that point.

I don't mean to sound harsh here but it happened every session nearly every time he took a turn. He plays the Ezren pregen and just ignores that wizards have to prepare spells. Plays Valeros and refuses to understand opportunity attacks. Plays Harsk and ignores that crossbows need to be reloaded. It was a drain to have him at a table for the entirety of first edition and he never bothered to learn the rules or even listen to anyone. The rogue spots a trap and tells the group to stay back? He is to busy chatting about Magic with some randos in the game store to pay attention and triggers it. Then complains that we didn't warn him. Any rules discussion he would just loudly declare that it doesn't make sense and scoff at us for caring about the game.

I have played one game with him in second edition. He was playing the cleric pregen. We played a 5th level pregen special with the sheets thoroughly describing every ability and spell. Not sure if the scenario comes with those or if the DM added some notes for his printoffs. I thought it would be great finally all his questions have answers right in front of him. It was just more of the same.

First combat was mostly him being confused about the bless spell and being upset it doesn't instantly give everyone on the map a bonus to hit. After combat the rogue goes to use medicine because why not free healing? He asks the rogue "Why would you do that when i can just cast heal?" He casts it as the 3 action version. His healing amount seemed high so the dm asked him how he got that. What followed was a 20 minute conversation about how you don't get the bonus healing from the 2 action version on the 3 action version. It said so right on the sheet. We have a section were we do some skill checks so that 2 people doing the same thing is pointless. The rogue uses an ability that makes it take twice as long for a minor bonus. He does the same skill check completely removing the point of the rogue having done that. Then acts all surprised when everyone calls him out on it. During a later combat he kept trying to use a focus spell every turn. Despite being shown directly on his sheet where it says he needs 10 minutes of rest to regain a focus point.

I hope I have conveyed my frustration with the situation. I am looking for advice on how to deal with a player who just has a history of refusing to learn rules. We organize sessions via warhorn and I really can't turn people away, but I dread whenever I play with him and have managed to avoid having him as a player by pure luck only. Has anyone else had a similar situation? How did you deal with it? Does anyone have advice in dealing with this issue?

Let me set the scene here. I run and dm for a small starfinder society group with some friends at the public library. I occasionally play at the local game store which has rotating GMs. One of them is aggressively bad at rules and imposes houserules for society play. One of which that is particularity irksome is a natural 1 is an autofailure for skill checks.

The core rulebook has you automiss on a natural 1. I can't find anything to support autofailing skill checks on a nat 1. He makes players roll for everything since, "you could roll a 1"

That isn't in the rules so I can't for the life of me figure out why he keeps doing this. This is the main issue but here is a variety of smaller problems in decreasing importance.

He is doing readied actions wrong. As an example he has an enemy ready an action to shoot me if i cast a spell. Per page 249 that should occur immediately after the spell is cast. He has it shoot me before I finish casting and breaks concentration losing the spell.

Not understanding anything about environmental protections in armor. He makes players roll for inhaled poisons even when they have their armor on and the environmental protections activated. Once when we went to activate out suits before entering a radiation filled area he wanted us to make life science checks to activate them.

He keeps "forgetting" how withdraw works for enemies. They not only ignore the square they start out in for opportunity attacks but for there whole movement. Withdraw past 3 melee vesk, "they don't get opportunity attacks he withdrew."

He doesn't apply flat footed to enemies when they run away. They still get 4 times movement but they can turn and duck into areas out of line of sight. Which they couldn't see when they started to run.

He fills out chronicle sheets wrong. Like he just tells us the fame we get and signs it. Nothing else. This is just a nitpick though.

I have tried broaching this with him but it seems like I am the only one in the group who cares about rules. He isn't a new GM. He ran pathfinder games and made similar mistakes. The skill check issue was the same then so he knows it isn't in the rules. I don't know how to broach this with the group at large. He is breaking the rules for society play willfully and repeatedly. The only reason I don't bail is that he is the only one who does this. I don't always know the GM since sometimes it changes from the person on warhorn the day of.

Does anyone on the forums have advice on how to deal with this? Or what repercussions campaign leadership can use to discourage such behavior? I am at the end of my rope regarding this.

I was reading through the Armory and found a curios little magitech item called Morphic Skin. It has 3 tiers and allows you to alter your appearance.

My little rules question is in regards to androids and how they interact with the basic version of the item.

The relevant section from the android race section

"Nearly all androids feature a humanoid body shape and tattoo-like circuits that glow through their skin when operating at full power, but beyond this commonality, variations in physical appearance reflect an android’s design, role, and personality. Some take pains to blend into human society, while others deliberately display their mechanical nature. Though some androids are constructed or customize themselves to look like other races, such models are relatively rare."

So my question is can you use morphic skin to look like an android modeled after a race other than human? You can only alter your appearance within the normal bounds of your race. So could a human choose amber eyes? Can an android have elf ears?

The crux of the issue is relatively rare normal? I think it is normal for humans to have amber eyes. Having amber eyes is relatively rare. It is rarer than blue eyes. Barely anyone has red hair and that is still a normal hair color. So do we consider android's that look like catgirls within the normal bounds of an android race?

I am looking for both opinions and how you would rule it in your games.

I noticed something peculiar about aeon stones. They don't have a clause , as far as I can tell, saying they can't hold additional weight. This got me thinking about buying a little costume for it using the 5 credit item from armory. I am thinking a little model ship that makes noises with some clear glass to the center.

Looking through the rulebook this might have some wonky interactions with gear clamps. Am I missing a rule that stops this from working?

Also if this does work what plushies should I get to orbit around my characters head?

I am going to explain the situation as thoroughly as I can before asking questions so everyone has context.

I am GMing for new players for starfinder soceity. They are all playing mechanics since one of them found a guide online. They decided to all pick up drones and to qoute them "run a robot fighting ring while shooting who the starfinders tell us to." It was working out as about as well as I can manage when a player threw a grenade at an enemy that was flanked by 2 other players drones. I hide dice rolls from the party so they thought this mook was some kind of boss since it hadn't gotten below a 16 on the dice during combat. Consistently rolling high damage for it made them think that they needed to put as much damage on it as possible.

This started an argument.

The player who threw the grenade said that the no pvp rules only meant he couldn't attack their characters. It didn't say anything about their drones.

One of the players was ok with the grenading. The other was not ok with it. The player who grenaded insisted he didn't need permission. The player who didn't agree threatened to destroy all his gear while he slept. The resolution at the table was bribery with some soda and temporarily extending the no pvp rule to drones for that session.

The only clarification on pvp that I have found is about arc pistols.

Here are the questions I hope I am just misreading something and it is real simple..

Does a mechanic's drone count as the player's character for the purposes of the no pvp rule?

Does a drone a player has purchased (aka armory stuff)count as the player's character for the purposes of the no pvp rule?

Does a player's unattended personal possessions count as the player's character for the purposes of the no pvp rule?

Does a character's equipment (aka aeon stones floating about) count as the player's character for the purposes of the no pvp rule?

For my table I am tempted to rule yes for all of these but I can't find anything to back me up on this. Is there other rules I am missing?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

I think I have found an incredibly minor reason you might want to upgrade your gear using the rules from the armory page 8.

If you want to upgrade an existing weapon to be more effective, you can do so by selecting a weapon of the same type and category with a higher item level. You then pay the price of the new weapon, minus 10% of the price of the original weapon. You can do this yourself if you have the skill ranks to craft the new weapon, or have a professional do the work at the same price. If the weapon had one or more weapon fusions, an additional price must be paid equal to the price to move such a fusion from the original weapon to the new weapon.

Now upgrading it means it is still the same weapon unfortunately weapon fusions don't give any price savings or mechanical effects. But there is one thing that keys off price that isn't updated.

Computer Control modules cost 10% of the device being controlled. If you slap one of these on your level 1 gun you have a computer that can control it as you upgrade it.

Now downsides of this is that since it isn't mounted it can't aim the weapon. It can't really do anything except discharge it wildly by hit the on off switch of a trigger.

Really the only things this gives you is an inexpensive ammo tracker for energy weapons. But there is an incredibly minor and next to useless reason to upgrade your gear.

Any objections or campaign clarifications I am missing that prevent this from working?

I am currently reading through the first Alien archive. Leafing through the marooned one entry sends chills down my spine. A creature that can only really exist in a scifantasty setting and uniquely using both of those elements. But it doesn't stop with that one monster.

If we take a look at Nihili we find another most that has those same elements but in a lsightly different mesh. Instead of just an intelligent undead that died of effectively starvation a Nihili died of decompression and has gravity control.

I think this makes the settings default monsters pop and makes running a starfinder game different from simply running pathfinder in space.

Anyone else find monster that combine these elements or use them as a DM?

I have just started playing starfinder in society play and I was wondering if you could use the option in the core rulebook to start with lower stats than normal. I know there is no benefit to doing so but I just wanted to see if it was an option. I can't find anything in the guide or FAQ that prevents this.

Anything I am overlooking or can you play 9 in all stats man?

This isnt some sketchy grey paladin no this is a straight up core paladin who coats his blade in stuff like opium and worships Asmodeus.

You start by picking up the Pact Servant trait which lets you treat Papa as lawful neutral for worshiping. So now he is no worse than Abadar. Then you just buy some opium. It isn't a poison since poison immunity doesn't protect against them so no code of conduct issues there. What if anything causes this to break down and make the paladin fall?

A previous thread has revealed a glaring hole in the rules. This is a discussion page to help patch this hole in the rules.

I cracked open inner sea magic and the shadow caster gets this abilitity

Shadow Spells (Su): At 1st level, a shadowcaster uses his shadow to prepare additional spells. He must spend his entire period of spell preparation in dim illumination to use this ability. He may prepare a number of additional spell levels of spells equal to the level of the highestlevel wizard spell he can cast. For example, if he can cast 6th-level wizard spells, he could prepare six 1st-level spells, two 3rd level-spells, or any similar combination that adds up to a total of six spell levels. These spells are stored in his shadow. He can only cast these spells when he is in an area of normal light or dim light. He gains Shadowtongue as a bonus language. This ability replaces arcane bond.

Now this lacks any text dissallowing cantrips or saying to treat them as half level spells. So does this mean infinite cantrips?

Secondary question. Penumbra the cantrip seems like it could interact with this.

This spell keeps the creature or object touched slightly in shadow. The target of this spell does not suffer any penalties or blindness caused by bright light, such as those from light sensitivity or light blindness.

Not being able to cast spells is certainly a penalty. So would penumbra and shadowcaster allow infinite cantrips?

I am getting a character together for a fallout based campaign. Full casters are not allowed but unchained rogue and every archetype but eldritch scoundrel is allowed.

So far the character is a light bringer elf with underground chemist knife master and sanctified rogue archetypes. Plan is to take bookish rogue asap and use all my favored class bonuses on minor and major magic increases.

1st level feat is two weapon fighting.

3rd is deific obedience pharasma OR bookish rogue

after that it is open.

What other options are their to increase my ability to sling utility magic or even just get some reusable rays?

Also any advic eon getting as close to possible as being a wizard.

So I am in a campaign where we play as mice and squirrels. Those races are just the new medium and it is normal.

I am getting leadership soon and was interested in Ion wyrd followers for shenanigans that don't really matter. So they would be a huge construct with -4 strength -4 to charisma and a dex+2 with a fly speed of 60ft.

Any suggestions that keep it in the power level of normal pc races?

I am in a campaign with limited access to magic items. The stat generation is weird and i have a racial climb speed.

Stats so far
16 dex
27 cha
14 con
5 everything else

No I am sorcerer 3 oracle 1 with a custom mute curse.

I have a free silent spell and plan on making a guild.

I plan on getting the esoteric training from being a guild member.

I want to go into mystic theurge and am wandering what spells i should choose.

Since I am a spontaneous caster what spells are the best for me?

Nothing third party but anything else is allowed.

Now I dont think anyone should do this but my question is is there any rule against it.

Can a player make a character that is a straight wizard with and int of 8. Gaining next to nothing from the class and being a terrible character.

Is there any rule preventing this?

I am looking at making a heavy crossbow using alchemist that uses the explosive missile discovery and a true strike extract. I would like to stay full alchemist but i want sneak attack to use snipers goggles with. Any archetypes or ammunition or weapon abilities that would be useful for this?

I am thinking from a fluff perspective a cold blooded sniper firing his crossbow from as far away as possible (preferably against flat footed touch ac) And hitting with bomb damage and sneak attack. Then moving off to reposition.

I am not set on a particular race or class but i would like a long ranged bombing sniper.

Ok i am soon going to level up to 4th level as a sorceror and i have false focus. I found storm of blades and it seems to be an ok spell.

1. Now can i use false focus to not need the material component for the spell?

2. If i can, can i use it to get a larger sword to deal more damage?

3. If i can do that can i say it is obsidian to get it for half price potentially giving me bigger swords?

What is your opinion?

I found some old 3.5 rules for falling object damage but i cant find anything in pathfinder that is similar.

For example I cast mount which summons a horse of a 1000 pounds. I tell it to go drop of a thirty foot cliff onto an orc below. What happens? In 3.5 it dealt damage what happens in pathfinder?

I can only choose a core animal companion, but i have access to any book for anything else. What would be the best animal companion form from core only and what can i do to make him more effective.

I am interested in boosting his AC without getting proficiency in armor.

Any ideas?

I am a player in a campaign with several new players. We are second level and the difference in skill is apparent. The biggest issue is we have a fighter who religiously won't "minmax"

To him "minmaxing" apparently means having stats above 13. He has a twelve or thirteen in every stat. He is two handing a greataxe. He has power attack and furious focus. He has no armor but enough gold to buy armor.

Our party composition is a rogue with dervish dance a blaster witch and me a fey sorcerer with false focus. Is there any way we can help him? As it stands he has only a +3 to hit. His damage is 1d12+4 since he is always power attacking.

The rogue is already trying to flank as much as possible.

Is there anything the rest of us can do to make him not so terrible?

I am in a campaign with a dm allowing custom crafting options and a rogue in the party interested in crafting using the master craftsmen feat and profession blacksmith as his skill.

Giving him invisibility is preferred.

We will strictly be following the formula for crafting items. What would be the best use of around 5000 gold.

He is a dex based dervish dance rogue using a scimitar.

So this is alter summoned monster
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/alter-summoned-monster

And this is mount
https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/magic/all-spells/m/mount

Mount doesnt have the restrictions on spell casting that summon monster has. So if you heigthen mount to 9th level and cast alter summon monster to turn it into a glabrezu demon.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/glabrezu

So without the restrictions of spell casting what stops this from giving free wishes?

I only want to hear a RAW reason, I understand this is effectively pulling a Pun-Pun.

I am looking for build advice on a build for a character. Preferably usable low level and gets lots of natural attacks. Half orc is favored race but it is mallable. Prefer an outdoorsy kinda feel but that can be changed. Any advice?

This is a simple question. Can a creature with a burrow speed use spring attack to attack through a wall and leap backwards?