Minor issue with Society GM. Waved off whenever I bring it up. What do?


Starfinder Society

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I am not sure if I should post this here or the advice/pathfinder forum. I decided on this one. I want to be clear that this is a relatively minor issue.

There have been several instances where I go to use a minor ability that isn't just attacking something. I pull up all relevant rules for what I plan to do on the turn before it comes to me. The issue that has made me decide to post here was bizarre from my end at least. I don't really do social interactions well so I might be missing something.

I won't post spoilers but we were in a cave area and everyone except our Soldier had darkvision. I was going to spend an action to activate the flashlight built in to the personal comm unit built in to every armor. He began asking why I had a flashlight in my hands. I just flipped the device I was using with my pdf around with the section highlighted and said that every armor has a built in flashlight.

He responded with a groan and said in a deadpan, "No". When I asked why he just kept saying no.

It has slowly developed like this. The general theme is just ignoring mechanics that aren't just basic attacks. In pathfinder 2e lifting a light object using mage hand doesn't work because reasons. In pathfinder 1e chill touch wasn't allowed to sneak attack because reasons. It was all minor things that had clear cut rules but he just ignored direct rules quotes.

Whenever I brought this up with the person in charge of the lodge it was always waved off. Oh it is no big deal that's just how he is. Am I missing something? Is there anything I can do to address this?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

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Frankly, if you've already brought it up to the Venture Officer who coordinates activities at that lodge and they did not do anything about it, you should take it up to the next Venture Officer above them. Make sure to keep all records of interactions that you can, dates/events, etc., but definitely do hold GMs and VOs to account.

Our job is to make sure our players are having a fun and fair experience at the table, and if somebody isn't doing their job, their "boss" needs to know so they can help the situation.

Edit: And if you need to find who that is, the list of VOs and their areas can be located Here. I hope that helps!

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5 *

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You are not missing something. Whether we agree with rules or not, in Society they are there and GMs cannot ignore them. That is what makes organized play work.

So far you have gone through the right channels. The person in charge of the lodge is the correct person to go to. The venture officer volunteers operate in a tiered system. Where you are at now, your next step is to work your way up. This is a link to the list of the ladder. If your local venture officer waved it off, then you probably should look for the closest Venture Lieutenant or Venture Captain.

Sorry that is a little tedious of a process but it is the most efficient as all of those peeps are volunteers.

1/5 5/5

If it is tied to the fact that the person who was your GM is ALSO the venture officer in question, then escalation is the proper order. It is nigh-impossible to get someone to act against themselves.

Things for consideration Do not need responses in thread here, just for your own documentation purposes:

Is it only for your character that these calls are being made against to the best of your knowledge?

Are there any uncomfortable moments while sitting at the table that you may not have been previously aware of?

Did you feel like you were being treated with any level of courtesy or respect when the GM made their decisions?

'That's just the way he is' is not an acceptable answer, imo. We all grow as GMs when we learn things we missed previoiusly.

Failing to remember this or not having shortcomings addressed weakens all of us.

EDIT: Possible groundwork:

If you sit at this GM's table again, try to discern why the decisions are being made.

It may be a rules lack, an urge to keep things moving, or a desire to not deal with the headache that comes up when someone triggers a given encounter by 'having hands-free light', etc.

There are some GMs who feel the time-pressure acutely and feel that any sort of rules discussion is a distraction from their running, but my experience has been that very few will blow off a player who is prepared and has the material ready to answer the question.

When a player takes ten minutes to look up a power that breaks the game? That's where the irritation arrives, and the knock-down effects of having a twenty minute delay ten minutes to find, ten minutes for the GM to read and examine the impact of the ability every time a rules question comes up can quickly result in a slot not ending on time.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/5 **

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I mean, not letting you turn on the flashlight that’s built into your armor? I mean, as a GM, I. . . I mean it’s not even that I would allow it, I wouldn’t even give it a second thought. You’re turning on your armor flashlight? Okay cool.

Now, I might say “It’s likely you would have already have your flashlight on. You can have already had it on and do something else with your turn.” But like, just. . .

Now to be fair, GMs are people too and they might have been stressed out or in a bad headspace, that has happened to me before, so I wouldn’t be overly antagonistic. I’d report to your VO, and if they do’t respond, shoot off a quick message to your regional coordinator saying something like “Hey, this happened in a game, not sure why, but my concerns were brushed off. Could you use this as a teaching experience?” Sounds like this GM just needs someone to sit down with him/her and re-align how they GM.

And this tactic does work, there was a fairly bad GM in our region for a while, and it took something like three VOs confronting him at the same time to get him to change his attitude, but he eventually did and, apparently, he’s doing a lot better. So, I would say keep at it, the tactic has worked in the past.

Keep the faith!

5/5 5/55/55/5

Using the flashlight built into the com unit built into your armor is slightly problematic, as you need to bounce rules from all over the rulebook. (All armors have com units is way in the back in the society and communications section, Com units have built in flashlights is in equipment)

If they insist the com unit in the armor doesn't have one, buy a flashlight and a weapon rail, or a flashlight and some ion tape.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

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If I understand this correctly, we’re talking about the rulings of a particular person, not the rules themselves. Ordinarily, the advice would be to (1) take tour concerns to the GM, followed by (2) take your concerns to the local organizer. Sounds like you’ve done that. The next step would be to escalate it to the next higher VO. You can also discuss the issue with other players at your lodge. If they are experiencing the same problem, maybe they can add their voice. People sometimes respond to group peer pressure. If they are one of the few people that just do not care about how their GMing is having a negative affect on the players, then I would choose not to play with them. If enough people do that the person either improves their style or quits. Either way the community is improved. Worst case, you might have to find a new group to play with. Life is too short to be unhappy laying a game.

BTW, Starfinder is an advanced game with technology. It’s pretty ridiculous for a GM to stress over a flashlight when we can literally replace all your body parts with cybernetic replacements.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 *

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mike Bramnik wrote:

Edit: And if you need to find who that is, the list of VOs and their areas can be located Here. I hope that helps!

Minor note: the updated list of coordinators, I believe, lives here: http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/volunteer-coordinators/


Xalxe wrote:
Minor note: the updated list of coordinators, I believe, lives here: http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/volunteer-coordinators/

Linkified

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

CrystalSeas wrote:
Xalxe wrote:
Minor note: the updated list of coordinators, I believe, lives here: http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/volunteer-coordinators/
Linkified

Unfortunately, that list hasn’t been expanded to include below the RVC level yet, so the list on Paizo is still the way to go for now. Hopefully, updated NDA and VO appointments will be a present early in the new year and then the OPF page can be further updated.

Dark Archive

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Thanks for the handy links and advice. I am gonna follow GM Wageslaves groundwork and gather up answers for those questions about motivation.

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