SJMiller's page

It's been awhile since I posted on these boards. It's also been awhile since I looked at the Harrow deck. So, given that, I took a look at it to see if my initial thoughts on the product have changed. I think I can still say that I love the concept of the product. I can't say the same for the execution of the product. The card art still does nothing for me. I know a lot of people praise it, say it reminds them of stained glass, and think it is wonderful. I look at it and think that it looks like poorly drawn coloring book art. It's just not a style I appreciate. The backs of the cards aren't that hot either. One would hope for something more like the card being held in the illustration on the box. After all, the character on the box is supposedly using the deck that is inside.

It's a shame that the concept didn't work out in production. For me, at least, it was a wise pass on purchasing. If the art and card backs were changed, maybe I would get it. But, that practically means making a completely new product. Not something I expect any time soon.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

SJMiller wrote:

Sorry if I sound a bit snippy about this, it's just something that has bugged me lately, and has been intimately involved with Pathfinder and my dislike of the art.

If this is your biggest concern in regards to the art, then you likely have nothing to worry about.

Actually, the weapons are not my only concern about the art. As I said previously, I am really not a fan of Kyle Hunter's art style. The "look, I am trying to draw people that look like I carved them out of wood" style does nothing for me, and actually turns me off of a product. I really wanted to get the Harrow Deck, as it sounded quite interesting and could have lots of good roleplaying uses. When I saw the sample art from Mr. Hunter, and found he was the sole artist on this project, I went from being a guaranteed buyer to someone who is not buying it. I would really like the rules for the Harrow Deck and some nice art to go with it, but that is not happening.

I also don't like the giant chihuahua ears on the elves. I think they are silly, unnecessarily large, and make the elves look more cartoonish then they should. Plus, if the elves get a hearing bonus with their outlandish ears, shouldn't the orcs get it too? Their ears are nearly as silly as the elves. Were the ears on the elves done just to make them look different than the elves from D&D? Yes, I know the design of the elves are from products produced before the Pathfinder RPG was announced, but the question still applies.

I won't go into my complaint about most women portrayed in fantasy art needing to eat a sandwich, that's enough for a rant all its own.

Now, I will say that I like the look of the goblins. I think they are a good variant on the standard goblin. So, I do like some of the art.

SJMiller wrote:

. . .nor would I use any art that shows so-called weapons as ridiculous as the one shown on page 8 of alpha release 2. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but you can only stretch that so far before it becomes absurd.

Technically, almost all current fantasy artists create art featuring weapons like that at some point. However, such weapons are usually in the hands of giants or other similarly massive beings.

You need to remember that Amiri's sword was not intended to be used by a medium-sized creature, and that she had to undergo special training with it to use it effectively. By no means would such a difference in size be standard. I imagine the size of that sword was specifically requested when the art was commissioned.

Well, I will just say that I should not have to know the intimate details of some character or another when I am looking at the art in a core roleplaying book. Since the art isn't labeled, nor associated with some class/skill/feat of ridiculous weapon wielding, I will just reiterate my strong dislike of the art and the weapon depicted therein.

Oh, and for the record, this is the first time I have seen fantasy art of late (outside of some anime-influenced art) that depicts a weapon of such absurd dimensions.

Sorry if I sound a bit snippy about this, it's just something that has bugged me lately, and has been intimately involved with Pathfinder and my dislike of the art.

I am someone who has stated for a long time, back to the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, that I was not a fan of certain of the artists used for Pathfinder. I am not a fan at all of Kyle Hunter's style of art. His art is the one doing the "racial lineup" art most people seem to object to, as well as the Harrow Deck. His art is the reason I did not buy the Harrow Deck, which I was otherwise quite excited about getting.

I know that the folks at Paizo really love Mr. Hunter's art, which is quite fine with me. I know that everyone does not share my preferences in art, in music, and in fiction. It doesn't mean they are wrong, just different. Now, if I had my choice I would not use Mr. Hunter's art, nor would I use any art that shows so-called weapons as ridiculous as the one shown on page 8 of alpha release 2. Sure, it's a fantasy game, but you can only stretch that so far before it becomes absurd.

For me, and some of my group, if we want to do a point buy fantasy game we will play GURPS. For us D&D, and by extension the Pathfinder RPG, means rolling dice for attributes. That being said, as long as rolling for attributes is an available option and is not trumped by a default point buy system, we're happy. If rolling stats is not an option, I am just going to have to add it. If rolling for stats "breaks the system" then I guess it's not a system I want to play.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer & Curmudgeon
Slaying dragons and raiding dungeons since 1980

Well, I do editing work occasionally for a small game company, and I am helping on a d20 game right now. I have not had a chance to read through all of it yet, but I find parts of it quite interesting.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon.

I think the art somehow fits. It shows Fate's fickle humour. Fate never takes you seriously, and it's up to you if you take Fate seriously.

And I think we have enough Tarot decks out there if you want something more sombre.

I don't want something that is sombre. I just want something that looks less like a cartoon and more like something a character in a game might actually own.

Stephen

I have taken a look at all the preview art and tried to keep an open mind toward the project as a whole. I love the idea of the project, and of having an interesting prop to use. Try as I might, I just can't like the artwork. It looks too cartoon-like, too much like a kid colored it. The art really is not suitable for a fantasy game, or at least not for my game. I imagine that the rules for using a harrow deck will only be available in the deck. That's a shame, because I really do like the idea, and would pay for a pdf of the rules. Just thought you shuold know that there are folks out here who love the concept, but dislike the presentation.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

Well, I just had a player ask me if he could play a gnome illusionist in my 3.0 game. This was just last Sunday, in fact. I said sure, since gnomes are playing a key role in the current campaign. He's the only gnome in the game at this time, but he's not the only player who as played a gnome.

Of the ten people in our group (nine players and me, the DM) I think that all but 3 of us have played gnomes in the past. In the campaign that ended before this one, one of the current players played a gnome wizard. He's currently playing a faen sorcerer (faen from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved - think gnome, but smaller). Two of my most favorite characters are gnomes. One was a thief and the other was a fighter, but he really wanted to be a paladin (back in AD&D1e times).

For me, if I am playing or dunning D&D, gnomes will have a place in the game.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

As the DM in my game, I use the character's name when I talk to each of the players. The few times I use a player's name they know it is something outside of the game, or I really want their attention.

Stephen
Ancient gamer and curmudgeon

I am wondering what the store policy is on returning an inappropriate, unwanted, wrong, or damaged item. It hasn't happened yet, but it is always good to know these things ahead of time. I usually look for the info on a store's FAQ page, but I did not see it there. Thanks for the info!

Stephen Miller

As some of you may know, I am one of the folks who would love to get a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription without getting the item cards. Paizo, and some folks here, talk about committment, and wanting to make the subscription "deluxe" or all inclusive. The biggest thing seems to be this view that asking for something to not be included in the subscription is showing a lack of committment in the subscription program and in Paizo. Frankly, I do not see it that way at all.

To show Paizo my level of committment in wishing to purchase a subscription without the item cards, I am making the following offer. I am willing to take $150 right now and put it either in a Paypal account, or some other account where it can be used to purchase that amount of Pathfinder Chronicles material. When that money runs out, I will put up another $150 within 2 weeks. That's my part of the deal. Paizo, for their part, will send me all the Pathfinder Chronicles material that is produced that is not a card. As a subscriber, that would also mean making pdfs available for download.

So, basically, if it is for Pathfinder Chronicles, and it is not a card set, then I am buying it. Heck, you can even include a goblin t-shirt (XL) in the mix.

There's my offer. There is my level of committment.

Stephen Miller
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

Cintra Bristol wrote:

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I don't draw the same conclusions from your quote as you drew. I'm on the Quality team in a pretty big warehouse, and when I see the words "entire order will be held," I read that as the "order" being held (instead of filled), rather than the "merchandise" being held.

I didn't actually quote their entire policy on ordering and shipping, which is what could lead to the confusion. Elsewhere in their FAQ they state that they pull all available items for an order on the following business day. I will check with Shadlyn, the head honcho of Warehouse 23 to confirm this, but I am pretty sure the last time I asked that they do in fact hold the physical items of an order. I will let you know what she says.

I did actually hear back from the folks at Warehouse 23. Here's what they said:

Stephen,

You are reading the FAQ correctly: if there is an item on an order that is not in stock, the entire order will be held until we receive the item in question. The best way to be sure that you do not accidentally order an item that is out of stock is to check on the item's page on the Warehouse 23 website. Directly beneath the item's name towards the top of the page, there is an indicator of its status. It will say Available Now, On Order, Out of Print, etc. If an order is made that we cannot fill, we make a request for the missing item(s) from our distributor, and as soon as it arrives, the package is shipped out. If an order is made and the customer discovers that one of the items is unavailable and holding up everything else, he may always contact me to request that the item is removed, so that I may expedite the shipping process.

Thanks for the questions. We always prefer customers to read the FAQ and ask about anything that's unclear as opposed to learning the policies the hard way. Let me know if you have any further questions.

Ross Drews
Warehouse 23 Clerk
www.warehouse23.com

And I don't think Paizo wants cherry-picking in any way. They want commitments, so they know they can continue the line and feel confortable enough with the success of future products. That way, they can commission authors and artists for products due in 4-6 months with less risk, which means better quality products.

You know, I had a long, rambling, sometimes snarky sounding post to your previous comment, but I decided not to use it. I didn't think, after all, that it added any real substance to the discussion. This time, however, I think I can add something.

You say that Paizo wants committment to better judge their product lines. I agree, they do want that. They want to know what people desire and what they do not desire. Some people desire to give Paizo lots of money for Pathfinder Chronicles subscriptions. Some people would love to give Paizo lots of their money for a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription that does not contain item cards. Both are showing their committment to Paizo. Both are telling Paizo what they desire and what they do not desire. I do not see how either group is any less committed to showing their support to Paizo and showing what they want.

All of that aside, didn't Erik say he wanted to hear our thoughts on their decision? Didn't he say he wanted to know this for when they review their decision at an unspecified future date? That's all we're really doing here.

You know, if I was going to buy into the 4e hype and get the game, I would seriously have to dump their whole "deities in a blender" pantheon and the view that players should be able to seriously challenge a god. Without artifacts and a major, epic campaign setting, that just isn't how I see deities in a D&D game. Hmm, maybe I should come up with a set of pantheons for various editions of D&D. I know it would not be hard to come up with a good, usable pantheon of deities for a generic game world. Not only have I done it, but game designers from big name game companies have done it too.

Stephen Miller

Erik,
I would like to thank you and the rest of the folks at Paizo for considering all the options for a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription. While I respect the decision you made, I feel it was the wrong one. Since there is a fairly substantial number of people who want a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription, but do not want the item cards, Paizo is missing out on committed sales from this group of people. You would not have to set it up as an "opt-out" type of subscription. Rather, it would be an entirely different subscription, which just so happens to mirror the other one, but without the cards. Paizo would get even more people making a long-term commitment and everyone would be getting a subscription that suits their needs.

I believe I was one of the first people to mention subscribing until the cards come out, cancelling for that month, then restarting after the cards ship. It may have been taken as a joke by some people, but I am serious about it. I am still considering just that sort of action. I want to get all the maps, gazetteers, heck even the t-shirts would be great, but I just don't get the attraction of the item cards. I received a packet of cards with my Green Ronin Sale items. Those arrived yesterday, thank you. The cards would take up a lot of space in storing characters, plus there's the chance of players losing them. Let's not forget that once you write on them it's hard to change the card. I just can't wrap my mind around how these things are more than a novelty.

Since these cards, unlike just about everything else in the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription, do not come with a pdf, there's nothing really compelling about getting them. At least the maps and other items in the subscription come with a pdf, so you can print out as many copies as you want, altering to your hearts content. Everything but the cards, at least, comes with the bonus of an electronic version. That is the main reason, for me at least, to subscribe. I want the electronic version, so I can take it on my flash drive to work and read it there, or print out copies of the maps for the players. The electronic copies are what really make the subscription worth the cost.

The cards are, at least for me, useless. I would gladly spend money on the maps and gazetteers, using them in playing the adventure paths and later on in my homemade adventures. The cards, on the other hand, would just sit in a box unused. I might try selling them on eBay, or giving them away, but it would generally be a waste of money.

I think it's a real shame you decided against offering a cardless subscription. Instead of getting all those additional subscribers, and they money, Paizo just may get nothing out of those folks. People like myself now have to really think about what we want to do with our money. Do we: 1. just subscribe and figure out how to get rid of the unwanted cards; 2. buy the items and (possibly) their pdfs individually when they come out (a costly endeavour); 3. do the subscribe-cancel-resubscribe dance (which will surely annoy you folks); 4. or just not bother with them at all.

I know that I was hoping to be able to get the Pathfinder Chronicles stuff to build my own campaign after running the Rise of the Runelords adventures. Now I am trying to decide if I want to go through the hassle or should I just use some other setting when we're done. Currently I am a bit disillusioned by my recent experiences with Paizo. I am thinking I should hold off and make a decision after the holidays. There should be time then to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision.

Well, enough of me whining and complaining. Time to move on to more constructive things.

Stephen

I should note one thing for our non-Christmas celebrating friends and readers: Paizo does not send out Christmas cards. We send out holiday cards and nothing on that card indicated that it was for Christmas specifically. We like to honor all possible wintery celebrations for our customers and readers. :-)

Around our house we tend to call it a Solstichaunakwanzamas card/gift/holiday. I don't think we left anything out. We're an inclusive household. :-)

Let's seem, some off the wall books I would like to see printed:
Flash Gordon in the Caverns of Mongo by Alex Raymond (1936), originally published by Grosset & Dunlap.
There's also the 1973 series of Flash Gordon books by Avon, but those seem less likey a target.

Anything by H. Rider Haggard, especially the Allan Quatermain stuff.

The Carkacki stories by William Hope Hodgson.

I know these are totally inappriate for Plant Stories, but the Lone Ranger novels by Gaylord Dubois and later by Fran Striker.

I am sure I could come up with more, if I think about it enough, but those were the first that came to mind.

Stephen

Any news on this Lisa? It's been another 2 weeks...

Well, I can tell you that my order says it shipped on Tuesday, December 11. If the 3 to 10 business days shipping time is correct, I should receive it either sometime next week (since it didn't arrive on Friday, day #3), or as late as a couple days after Christmas.

Stephen

Vic,
You asked for people to come up with a method of order filling that makes everyone happy and doesn't make someone wait several days for what you cite as "no good reason." I believe that what I show below fits the bill. Now, you and I will obviously have a differing view on what is "no good reason." For you, it seems to me, any wait at all is "no good reason." For me, early ordering means less waiting, if you have to wait at all.

My retail and mail order experience is mostly, but not entirely, end user or customer based. That being said, here is what I have seen is the best method for handling mail order sales, which is basically what you are doing.

Among the many items in your warehouse are 10 copies of Widgets & Wonders Adventure A1. The adventure line is being discontinued, so the adventure is put on sale on Monday.

Customer #1, we’ll call him Alan, places an order on Monday for 12 items totaling $150 before shipping. His order includes the Papers & Paychecks Players Handbook, and Widgets & Wonders Adventure A1. You do not a copy of the P&P PH, so you order one from your distributor, which will come in on Friday. In your computerized inventory you mark that one copy of W&W A1 is sold but not shipped, pending additional items. At the close of business on Monday your inventories show 9 available copies and 1 reserved copy of the adventure.

On Tuesday, a total of 8 copies of W&W A1 are sold and shipped out. At the close of business on Tuesday your inventories show 1 available copy and 1 reserved copy of the adventure.

Customer #2, we’ll call him Bernie, also wants a copy of W&W A1, plus 6 other items totaling $55 before shipping. He places an order early Wednesday morning.

Customer #3, we’ll call her Corrine, hears about the sale on Wednesday. She has heard of everyone ordering W&W A1 at this great sale price, and figures she better get one now. Since that is the only thing she really wants, she just orders a copy of W&W A1. Her order is placed late Wednesday afternoon.

Late on Wednesday the items ordered on Wednesday are pulled, starting with the first order placed. Bernie’s order is filled, taking the last available copy of the adventure. When the stock puller gets to Corrine’s order, they note that the item she wants is out of stock, even though Alan’s copy is still on the shelf. You place an order for more adventures, which will come in on Monday. Your inventories are updated, and a message is sent to Corrine telling her the item she ordered is back ordered.

On Friday the P&P PH comes in, and Alan’s order is pulled, packed, and shipped.

On Monday the copies of W&W A1 come in, and Corrine’s order is filled.

Following this method, everyone gets exactly what they ordered in less than week with the least amount of disorder and the highest amount of customer satisfaction.

If I understand your current order fulfillment system correctly, this is how you would have handled it.

Alan places his order on Monday. The P&P PH is ordered and nothing further is done with Alan’s order.

Tuesday’s orders are all handled and shipped.

Wednesday, Corrine’s order is shipped, because you have everything in the warehouse for her order, and Bernie’s is also shipped, leaving you with no copies of W&W A1. You place an order for the adventure, which should be in on Tuesday.

Friday, Alan’s P&P PH comes in, but now there are no copies of W&W A1, so nothing is done with Alan’s order.

On Tuesday, eight days after placing his order, Alan’s copy of W&W A1 comes in. At this point, as long as nobody has ordered a copy of the P&P PH in the eight days since placing the order, Alan’s order is ready to be shipped.

So, in the end, it takes us eight days to fill one order, and one day to fill the other two. During that eight day period, Alan receives no notice that his order is taking so long.

Somehow I do not see how your system is fair or logical. With the method I give, which is used by countless mail order houses, everyone has their package shipped in less than a week, and everyone gets what they ordered. With your method, Alan has to wait over a week, and could wait longer if something else in his order goes out of stock while he waits for his missing item. That is inexcusable, and bad customer service.

Stephen

Something that my Cookbook of the Month club does is the option to "skip" this month's selection - if said selection was the aforementioned Item Cards, and you were allowed to skip said item, would that appeal to those that don't want the Item Cards? Or is going to the website and saying "Skip this item please" not an option?

I am all up for that sort of option. I want the books and maps, I don't want the item cards (I don't grok their utility), and I definitely don't want the Harrow Deck (don't like the artist's style). If I could opt out of the cards whenever they show up, that would be cool.

I think perhaps a mass mailed “Due to an inordinately high volume of sales we are experiencing holiday shipping delays, please be patient while we process your purchase in the order it was received. We apologize for any difficulties this may cause you.” might not have hurt for the people on the fence.

The only problem is that is not the order processing policy they were/are using. Currently it boils down to a "fill the small orders first, cannibalizing larger ones if necessary" arrangement. Just because you ordered early does not mean they will set aside/allocate/mark down (or whatever) that you get certain items and others after you have to wait. If your order is waiting on something they will not pull anything until everything is there. That is what has upset so many people.

Stephen

You know, while I like a lot of the Chronicles stuff, and would like the pdfs of all the books and maps, I really, really have no use for the item cards. Add to that the fact I do not like the art of the gentleman doing the Harrow deck, and you begin to see my reluctance towards subscribing. As it stands, since we can't elect to not get the cards, it looks like if I want everything else I will have to get a subscription, cancel it just before the cards ship, then start it up after that. That's really annoying, but appears to be the only alternative. Why not have a non-card subscription? There's obviously a market for it. It means you get more assured sales than if you do not offer it, plus it saves both you and us a lot of hassle with dropping and renewing subscriptions.

Stephen

It appears that your order shipped out to you yesterday. It is on it's way to you and should arrive in 3 to 10 business days.

thanks,
cos

The email I got said it shipped Tuesday about 2 hours after I posted that message. Thanks for checking on it for me, and I hope to see my books very soon.

Stephen

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I don't draw the same conclusions from your quote as you drew. I'm on the Quality team in a pretty big warehouse, and when I see the words "entire order will be held," I read that as the "order" being held (instead of filled), rather than the "merchandise" being held.

I didn't actually quote their entire policy on ordering and shipping, which is what could lead to the confusion. Elsewhere in their FAQ they state that they pull all available items for an order on the following business day. I will check with Shadlyn, the head honcho of Warehouse 23 to confirm this, but I am pretty sure the last time I asked that they do in fact hold the physical items of an order. I will let you know what she says.

I appreciate the information, and the waiving of the shipping fees on my order. I know that your ordering/pulling/shipping policy is to only pull items when everything is available. Currently it appears that the Advanced Bestiary is unavailable. This is the item that I really wanted the most, so I do not want to cancel it. However, I do not want to lose out on getting the other two. Is there any way you can hold copies of those two while we wait for Advanced Bestiary to arrive? I would hate for this order to develop into a death spiral of waiting for one book or another until they are all out of print and I do not get any of them. Thanks for your assistance!

Stephen Miller

As another person who has felt the sting of this sale disaster, I know my feelings on this are a bit biased. However, I did a bit of searching on the ordering policy of another large online game dealer. Here is an excerpt of the policy from warehouse23.com:

If any item on your order is not available, the entire order will be held until we either obtain the item or discover that the item is out-of-print. If you do not want to wait for the rest of your order, you can contact us with your order number to have the item removed.

If we discover that the item is out-of-print, we will remove it from your order and notify you of the revised total by e-mail.

Steve Jackson Games, who runs Warehouse 23, has been doing this online store thing for quite a long time. This has been their policy from the beginning. They update their stock status at the close of each business day. They also pull all available items for an order on the business day after it is placed. That means that within 24 hours you will generally know if all your stuff is going to ship immediately.

So, if this policy were in effect here, everything that was currently in the warehouse for Olaf's order would be pulled while you try to obtain the rest of the items. People order after Olaf would not get the items that were pulled for Olaf, and may have to wait for them to be restocked. If, for some reason, an item that is set aside for Olaf goes out of print while he is waiting for another item, that out of print item stays with Olaf's order, and is not given to someone else.

On rare occasions, such as the current sale, people ordering later in the sale will miss out on items that go out of print. That is how sales happen in brick and mortar stores, and it is how it should happen in an ecommerce store. It shouldn't be different. It shouldn't penalize people who need to, or want to, make large orders.

Stephen Miller

Erik Mona wrote:

You should see some of the art. My god this thing is beautiful.

I'd wager that depends on whether one likes Kyle Hunter's art... which I have to say I generally don't. A shame really, sounded like a cool thing to get.

I have to agree with GentleGiant here. I have checked out the art of Mr. Hunter, to see what to expect, and it is just not my cup of tea. I am hoping I can get the mechanics/card type/rules for a Harrow Deck without Mr. Hunter's art. I would prefer to make my own deck, to be honest.

Hey guys, don't feel bad, my order from this sale is on its 13th business day of pending status. In theory, according to my order, it should ship sometime before Friday. That is subject to change, of course.

I just went to check my current order, #837183, because I wanted to mark my calendar for possible arrival dates. Now, up until yesterday my order stated that it would ship within 9 to 14 business days. When I went to check what shipping method I picked (and thereby the length of time from shipping date till arrival date), I noticed that now my order says that it will ship with 8 to 17 business days. Why has this shipping window been extended even further? Why wasn't I notified of this change?

I know you guys said you got a larger than expected number of orders from the Green Ronin sale, but this is starting to become farcical, but in a not funny way. I had planned on giving two of the books as Christmas/Solstice gifts, and the other as a Chanukah gift. When I first realized the timeframe involved, and sent my first message about my order, I changed what I was giving as gifts because I could not rely on you sending them in time. Now I am beginning to wonder if they will ever arrive at all.

I haven't made a lot of purchases from you, and I must admit that this situation is making it tough to recommend you to friends or to use you in the future. Frankly, I am becoming quite frustrated with the whole thing.

Stephen Miller
One cranky customer

Is it at all a reasonable assumption that orders containing Green Ronin sale items ordered on or around November 16th will arrive before Christmas?

Let's see, if the things you ordered have 9 to 14 business days to process the shipment, like mine do, plus 3 to 10 business days for the actual shipping (as mine do), plus excluding November 22 and 23 as non-business days, then you could be looking at an arrival date as late as December 24, possibly later. I ordered mine November 20, and I am hoping to get it sometime before January.

Of course, I don't work for Paizo, and I am projecting the worst case scenario here.

Stephen

Well... I'm not really sure what "COB" refers to,

COB stands for Close of Business. The rest of the information is good to know. It's not that I have OCD, it's just I am anxious to receive this order.

Stephen
Semi-patiently waiting

So, as I was visiting my pending order to see if it was anything other than pending, I got to thinking: when does the status of an order actually change? Is it done once a day at COB? Is it done on an order by order basis? Is it done some other way that I am not coming up with right now? Just thought I would ask. It would save me the frustration of checking more than once a day if I knew it has a set order update timeframe.

Stephen

Lisa,
Thank you for realizing that I was not complaining just for the sake of complaining. I appreciate the honest and open responses you have made to my concerns. Part of my concerns was born out of frustration with not getting the products right away. Another part was because I do quite a bit of customer service work as part of my job, and I know how important image and customer satisfaction is in the retail market. I also grudingly admit that part of my concerns also came out of the fact that as I am getting older I swear I am becoming more of a curmudgeonly person than I have ever been in the past.

Stephen

The magic words for your delay are Green Ronin books. When Chris Pramas came up with the sale idea and asked Paizo to front the online store part, we never dreamed of the response we would get. The initial deluge caused our website to break.

Lisa,

We have been working long hours to get everything out as quick as we can, but the thing that is slowing us down is the ability to get enough product to ship out the hundreds and hundreds of Green Ronin orders that we have received. They are going out as fast as we can get them packed and shipped. Hopefully the cargo van load yesterday and the two pallets today will go a long way towards clearing out any waiting orders.

I know I am repeating myself, but if you know there are long delays on this, shouldn't the buyers know this too? Shouldn't it be big, bold, and obvious? Shouldn't it be easy to see that an item isn't going to ship within the same timeframe you tend to expect from online shopping?

I am going to patiently wait for my order, since I really don't have any other choice. I am not particularly happy about it, and I am a bit disappointed that the long delays were not as obviously shown as I think they should be. At this point, however, all I can do is sit and wait, and wait, and wait.

While I have to admit, I am quite happy with the packaging that is used to send the orders I have made with Paizo, sometimes the time between when I place my order and when it actually ships is amazingly long. Take my current order (837183) for example. I ordered the three Advanced series books from Green Ronin on November 20. I figured I might be pushing my luck with placing an order right before Thanksgiving, but I thought that at the very least the order would be filled by November 26, at the latest.

Only in the last day or so have I discovered that I have to wait nine to fourteen business days before the order is filled, then another three to ten business days for the shipment to arrive, for a grand total of twelve to twenty-four business days. That means, if I read my calendar correctly, I can expect it anywhere from December 10 to possibly as late as December 31. That's just not right.

Nine to fourteen days to fill the order? That's terrible customer service, even if you DO tell people ahead of time. My other online game store of choice, Warehouse 23, generally ships within a day or two if the items are in stock. The only time I have had an extensive wait from them is when an item was custom ordered.

My main question is, I guess, why is there such a long delay in processing the order? What takes so long for these items, but others in the same sale group take three to six days to process? I find the delay, especially this time of year, to be quite disheartening. If my plans were to give this as a holiday gift, I would have thought ordering that early would have been a boon, not the bane it appears to be.

Stephen

I haven't gone through and reexamined all the art, but I just so happened to be looking at PF#3 and have a comment on the racial "underwear lineup" art on pages 64 and 65. That comment would be: YUCK! I strongly dislike the "everybody has the skin texture of Ben Grimm" look. The Final Fantasy gnome girl is the worst of all of these, but for a different reason. I am really not a fan of video game/animation/cartoony styled art, and the gnome pushes all the "hate it" buttons I have. Of all the good, bad, and mediocre art in the books, this is only the second piece I have commented on, and if I had seen this one first I think I would have taken back my comments on the other piece.

Since I have not used a commercial setting since Greyhawk back in the 80s, I doubt that even the coolest of settings will make me switch to 4e. Heck, some of the things I learned in reading this thread has pretty much locked 4e into the "nope, not gonna even think about it" realm of things.

Yes, the one in the free Player's Guide is layered, so you can just select and copy the map in Adobe Reader without the labels. Only the Player's Guide one works for this; for some unfathomable reason, the map in PF #1 has been flattened.

I just downloaded the free Player's Guide again, just to confirm this, and I could not do anything with layers in the Sandpoint map. Sadly, that appears to be changed. Either that or I am doing something terribly wrong.

I guess I qualify as one of the new guys here. I have bought a few things over the last year or so from Paizo, but until October I never really looked at the messageboards. Now that I have subscribed to Pathfinder, bought the Dragon Compendium, and considering buying some of the GameMastery modules/accessories, I guess I might be here for awhile.

A scrag is an aquatic Erik Mona actually.

Thank you very much for that bit of information. Oh, and might I say that you have one disturbed mind Mr. Logue. I thought I was a bit twisted when I came up with game ideas, but I now realize I am not even close to as twisted as you are!

OK, so I am reading through Pathfinder #3, and came across Grazuul, a male scrag fighter 5. Now, I play and run a 3.0 game, not 3.5, so I occasionally have to adapt things or add things in from 3.5. I have no idea what a scrag is. Page 71 of PF#3 shows an encounter table with scrags listed, and says they are from the MM. They are not in the SRD, unless they are under another name. So, I am wondering, what the heck is a scrag? Will it become necessary for me to replace him with something else, and if so, with what?

Thanks for the assist on this one, it's got me stumped.

Even though I do not sit at the gaming table behind a screen, I like to buy them. I stand around and walk around the table quite a bit, and having a quick set of useful tables that also act as a surface to roll dice on, cool! Artwork is nice, but for me the tables are key.

When/if I decide to make my own character sheets, I actually am lazy and use MSWord. I can make a darn fancy sheet that way. I could use Illustrator (Adobe) or even PowerPoint. Usually when I am done I convert them to a pdf for others to use.

Well, I wasn't able to vote in the poll, but I will say that my group of nine people plan on playing 3.0 (not 3.5, but 3.0) for the forseeable future. I think 2009 or 2010 might see us switching to GURPS, but I can pretty well assure you that I will not be buying any D&D 4e books. About the only way I will end up with some is through a gift.

I suspect we'd all be a lot happier if we realized that 4E is not the continuation of the same game but effectively a reboot. It's Dungeons & Dragons 2.0 and will succeed or fail on its own merits, not whether it is true to the past. I wish it were otherwise, but it ain't.

You know, this is the first time someone has really brought this up, at least as far as I have seen. I have to say I can't find any fault in this line of thought. Now that I look at it this way, as a whole new game instead of a new edition of the old game, I can treat D&D 3.x just like I do DragonQuest, Traveller, and all the other out of print games I continue to enjoy.

I am still a bit miffed that a game I enjoy playing is going out of print, but that's happened to lots of good games in the past, and they still have plenty of followers.

Alrightee... I drew Ameiko.. I'm sure some of you aren't gonna like it (it's pretty different from the version of her in the book), but this is my interpretation of her, so... here ya go:

grantgould.com/art/pathfinder/gould_ameiko400.jpg

Well, the sleeveless cropped mesh blouse was an interesting choice. It's nice artwork. Not a clothing style I would have picked myself, but it is still a good piece of art.

You know, I said to myself earlier today that I was going to keep my mouth shut about this topic, as I saw I was not really communicating what I wanted to say. This time I mean it when I say I am going to shut up about this now. I appreciate Wesley's comments on the subject, and I understand the vaguries of working with fantasy art and artists. I have a number of friends who are fantasy artists, some people have even heard of. :) The picture just hit a nerve, and I felt I should say something about it. That's all. I am not a "realism" freak, or anything like that. Just someone who felt like commenting on the art.

I really am going to shut up now.

Have you ever seen the old viking swords? Those would classify as long swords but are huge and heavy. The weight doesn't classify the sword, it if it can be held with one or two hands and not every longsword is going to weigh about 4 pounds.

Yes, I have seen, and in a couple of cases handled, early (8th and 9th century) iking era swords. They are about 2" to 2.75" across, and generally under 36" in length. They range in weight from around 2 pounds to just under 4 pounds. Actually the way to classify a sword, according to Oakeshott's typology, is by blade form (including width, length, number of fullers, point style, etc.) hilt type (including pommel, crossguard and grip differences), and less commonly by general use (combat, ceremonial, presentation, etc.). Blade form and general use will determine a weapon's weight. Ceremonial weapons are heavier, and tend to be larger. Those are often times the ones that survived, as they were not taken out except for special occasions, so tended to not be lost, broken, or otherwise disposed of.

You know, all I was saying is that I thought the sword was too big to be a depiction of a longsword. Really, that's all I was saying. You know, just forget I said anything. Nothing to see here. Move along.