Oracle of Heavens Questions


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

Hello all,

I have a few questions regarding a current Oracle of the Heavens I have in PFS, and more specifically these three revelations [all in the spoiler below, for the lazy or link challenged].

1:Can you use Moonlight Bridge on a Moonlight Bridge, effectively doubling[or at least, increasing] the length?

2:Can a creature [such as one in a pit], pass through the bottom of a Moonlight Bridge?

3:Can the 5th level ability of the Lure of the Heavens be turned off, or do you always have to be levitating 6" off the ground?

4:Is there a minimum to the Awesome Display Revelations? Or could you theoretically reduce a creature to negative HD for the purposes of spells like Hypnotic Pattern?

References:
Moonlight Bridge wrote:
Moonlight Bridge (Su): You summon a bridge of shimmering moonlight. The 10-foot-wide span touches the ground at a point adjacent to your position. From this point it can extend in any direction for 10 feet per oracle level. The path persists until you have crossed over the bridge or for 24 hours, whichever is shorter. You may summon a moonlight bridge a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus. Should the bridge be attacked, treat it as a wall of force.
Lure of the Heavens wrote:
Lure of the Heavens (Su): Your connection to the skies above is so strong that your feet barely touch the ground. At 1st level, you no longer leave tracks. At 5th level, you can hover up to 6 inches above the ground or even above liquid surfaces, as if levitating. At 10th level, you gain the ability to fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to your oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments.
Awesome Display wrote:
Awesome Display (Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).

Thanks in advance.


I don't know about 1 or 2 but with 3, it says can, so I'd say it's a free action to activate or deactivate. As for 4, it seems like they meant to add "(minimum 1)", because that could really just lead to a lot of ridiculousness, especially if they were use eagle's splendor on themselves, or any other ability that adds to charisma.

Silver Crusade

Wow, tough questions. Here's my attempt to answer. Comments welcome.

1:Can you use Moonlight Bridge on a Moonlight Bridge, effectively doubling[or at least, increasing] the length?
I don't see why not. Casting a second bridge will not destroy the first bridge. I vaguely recall possibly seeing someone do just that in game.

2:Can a creature [such as one in a pit], pass through the bottom of a Moonlight Bridge?
I suppose the magical Create Pit spells would still work normally atop the bridge. I treat the Bridge much as I'd treat a force wall.

3:Can the 5th level ability of the Lure of the Heavens be turned off, or do you always have to be levitating 6" off the ground?
It would be a mighty cruel & eevill GM who wouldn't let you turn it off. The GM probably won't have considered it before. Don't curse your PC by making an issue of it. Instead, introduce the ability to your GM in a way that subsumes turning it on and off. That's just reasonable. Done.

4:Is there a minimum to the Awesome Display Revelations? Or could you theoretically reduce a creature to negative HD for the purposes of spells like Hypnotic Pattern?
I've always played it, and seen it played, with a zero (0) minimum. No hijinks with negative numbers. Otherwise exploit: catch two bunny rabbits (-5 HD with CHA 22) to cause the spell to affect +10 extra HD. Nope, allowing negative numbers here doesn't pass Reductio ad absurdum test. E.g. instead of the bunny there are 1000 gnats affected by Hypnotic Pattern at -6 HD each, causing the spell to hypnotize an extra 6000 HD. That will never fly ...

Shadow Lodge

Magda Luckbender wrote:

Wow, tough questions. Here's my attempt to answer. Comments welcome.

1:Can you use Moonlight Bridge on a Moonlight Bridge, effectively doubling[or at least, increasing] the length?

I don't see why not. Casting a second bridge will not destroy the first bridge.

2:Can a creature [such as one in a pit], pass through the bottom of a Moonlight Bridge?

I suppose the magical Create Pit spells would still work normally atop the bridge. I treat the Bridge much as I'd treat a force wall.

3:Can the 5th level ability of the Lure of the Heavens be turned off, or do you always have to be levitating 6" off the ground?

It would be a mighty cruel & eevill GM who wouldn't let you turn it off. The GM probably won't have considered it before. Don't curse your PC by making an issue of it. Instead, introduce the ability to your GM in a way that subsumes turning it on and off. That's just reasonable. Done.

4:Is there a minimum to the Awesome Display Revelations? Or could you theoretically reduce a creature to negative HD for the purposes of spells like Hypnotic Pattern?

I've always played it, and seen it played, with a zero (0) minimum. No hijinks with negative numbers. Otherwise exploit: catch two bunny rabbits (-5 HD with CHA 22) to cause the spell to affect +10 extra HD. Nope, doesn't pass Reductio ad absurdum test. E.g. OK, instead of the bunny there are 1000 gnats affects by Hypnotic Pattern at -6 HD each, causing the spell to hypnotize an extra 6000 HD.

I agree with all of these answers.

#2 has especially been answered before, in a variety of contexts. Extradimensional spaces don't interfere with the surfaces that they are cast upon.

Grand Lodge

Trapping creatures in a hole, by using Moonlight Bridge to close the top, was a favorite tactic of my old Heavens Oracle PC.

Shadow Lodge

Thanks for the input all! Figure I ought to explain why I was asking[beyond my PFS oracle has these], as I forgot to in the first post.

#1:I'd assumed that it could probably work, but I was seeing if there was some vague wording I was missing that said you could only have 1 at a time.

#2:I was checking to see if it meant I could take enemies out of fights with this as a 2-way wall, or if people thought it only worked one way because of some weird reason. I normally would have assumed so, but I was browsing other threads when I noticed this question was asked a few times and figured I'd see what the current popular answer was [I still expect table variation].

#3:This is only really pertaining to flavor, as I can't see a reason why mechanically it'd be better to not levitate, but will be taking it and wanted to see what weird tricks I could do.

#4:When I first read the ability I'd assumed Minimum 1 was the general assumption. Then looking back, I'd seen it didn't say that anywhere in the rules, so I thought I'd check and see if the general consensus was 1, Zero, or if the negative shenanigans weren't as shenanigan-y as I'd thought [its been this way before with things].


Personally, I would allow a minimum of one hit die.

Grand Lodge

Keep in mind for #1... if you cross the first bridge onto the second as the creator, your original one will then poof. Be sure this is a circumstance you want BEFORE you take that last step. :) Because most GM's will say if bridge 2 doesn't have an ending point anchor, it won't stay up. (And you need to be at the end of your first one if you're trying to build bridge 2 off of bridge 1... so watch out for Bull Rush behind you if a GM thinks you're making too free a use of the linked bridges bit.)


*Edit, Blah Ninja'd*

#1)I see a scenario where using Moonlight Bridge more than twice in a row could be an issue. The bride is summoned touching a point adjacent to the Oracle and the bridge also despawns after the Oracle crosses it, right?

Let's say you're trying to cross a canyon. You create Bridge #1 anchored on the side of the canyon you're on and other end is hanging off in space. If you walk to the end of Bridge #1, summon Bridge #2 onto the end of Bridge #1, and then cross onto Bridge #2, Bridge #1 vanishes. So, if Bridge #2 isn't anchored to the other end of the canyon, it's probably going to fall into the gap with nothing to support it.

|._._._.|
|._._._.|
|.1.2.3.|

Shadow Lodge

Farrindor wrote:

Keep in mind for #1... if you cross the first bridge onto the second as the creator, your original one will then poof. Be sure this is a circumstance you want BEFORE you take that last step. :) Because most GM's will say if bridge 2 doesn't have an ending point anchor, it won't stay up. (And you need to be at the end of your first one if you're trying to build bridge 2 off of bridge 1... so watch out for Bull Rush behind you if a GM thinks you're making too free a use of the linked bridges bit.)

Noted, though I don't think this will be too huge of a problem. After a while, the length of the bridge should become so large that it effectively is useless to link them together, or if I do need to, the other end will be anchored to the ground, so it would be as stable as the first.

Grand Lodge

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It's stability, is based of the fact that it is a floating sheet of pure force.

I doesn't even need to go anywhere.

You could use it at the edge of a cliff, and just extend out into the distance.

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