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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 630 posts (634 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.

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Grand Lodge

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OK, long post time to discuss a favorite topic of mine. Bows.
I am going to approach this productively using house rules I created and modified to fit into the rules presented in the playtest. This will impact on a lot of elements of the game, from weapons, to encumbrance, and to actions. I will start off with the concept and goals first before going into the rules.

Concept and Goal To add realism, limitation, viability and uniqueness to all types of ranged weapons.
Too often, ranged build characters have provided safety and limitless versatility in combat to the point where some characters forgo the use of a melee weapon entirely. Shooting adjacent opponents and doing the 5ft step dance around the battlefield to avoid AoO (Step action). By providing definitive rules on how you prepare for ranged combat, and limiting the amount of ammunition you have access too provides for a much more realistic

We know the D&D weapon categories have been simplified since the earliest days, forums have been filled with heated discussions about katanas, bastard swords, morning stars and the like. But one that has always bothered me is the bow. People say all a katana is is a keen longsword and people argue both should be unique. But why do we have two categories for bows when the only difference is the shape and materials for which it is made?

Why does composite bows have propulsive and normal “self” bows do not? The difference between self and composite bows is simply a method of construction. Neither deserve their own stat blocks which has baffled me since the early days of D&D. Compound bows however are much more interesting. The idea of cams on compound bows is to provide more damage with less effort. When a compound bow reaches maximum draw, the cams take over the strain providing better accuracy for weaker users. It doesn’t matter how much father you pull a compound bow string; the velocity of the arrow would not increase. Not so with the self or composite which is 100% dependent on the strength of the user. Compound bows may not fit some players in terms of technology but as pathfinder has firearms (although missing from the play-test) compound bows would likely be available in some parts of the world.

To help with confusion between composite and compound wording, for this write up, I will refer to composite bows as Laminate. Also, I don’t really like the volley trait as it doesn’t make any sense to what its trying to do. Instead I turned the ability on its head and called it aim. So, any reference to volley in the rulebook instead refers to aim.

Ok so on with the rules.


Archer Prep
These actions involve preparing for the use of your ranged weapon. Each use comes with advantages and disadvantages and some may not be available in all scenarios. Once you have prepared your ammunition for use, you can use the matching ranged weapons normally until the prepared ammunition is depleted.

2 actions>> Quiver Prep: You position your quiver and release the string to allow you to draw your arrows to reload your bow. This often involves moving the quiver from your back to the side or hip to reduce the time it takes to grab the arrows. When a quiver is prepped for use any sudden movement not initiated by you runs the risk of the contents of your quiver spilling out. When you are the victim of a critical success action that causes your character to move or fall prone (such as critical success from the Shove or Trip attack action) the contents of your prepared quiver spill out at your previous location. A crossbow rack mounted on your crossbow is automatically considered prepped.

1 action> Ground Prep: If you have soft ground cover such as wet soil, sand or similar at your feet, you can take an action to thrust a rack of arrows into the ground. This is often a good choice of range prep for longer fights to provide additional arrows when the quiver runs empty. Since the ammunition is placed in the ground, if you move away from the location the arrows are considered dropped and unattended.

3 actions>>> Load Quiver: This action requires loading a quiver or archery bag with a loaded rack of arrows or bolts.

3 actions>>> Load Rack: This action involves loading an archery rack or crossbow rack with arrows.

Longbow The longbow is a long piece of material with a string attaching two ends causing tension. Laminate Longbows are made by gluing various resistance materials together. These create more tension and often retain the curved shape of the bow when unstrung making them bulkier. A longbow is too large to use while you are mounted.
Shortbow A shorter version of the longbow, this bow can be used while mounted.
Crossbow The traditional crossbow or hunter’s crossbow, consists of a horizontal bow mounted on an arm with a nock and trigger. The sting is pulled back manually into the latch to “arm” the crossbow. The bolt is placed in a groove along the arm. The trigger is pulled to release the string and fire the bolt. The draw weight is generally less than 100 lbs.
Heavy Crossbow The heavy crossbow is identical to the light crossbow but with a much stronger draw weight (normally around 150-200 lbs). The heavy crossbow cannot be “armed” with 1 hand and requires 2 hands to arm. Most come fitted with a foot stirrup for better leverage, while others include a winch mechanism to slowly draw the string back with minimum effort.
Hand Crossbow also referred to as the pistol crossbow, this crossbow can be fired with one hand but still requires 2 to load.
Repeating Light Crossbow This modified light crossbow uses a self-loading lever mechanism and vertical magazine that holds 4 bolts. This is the only crossbow that can be reloaded and fired in the same action (reload 0) however due to its construction the repeating crossbow was far less deadly and had a shorter range than its counterpart.

Bow Benefits
There are 3 types of bows and crossbows, self, Laminate, and compound, while all are identical in use, they are constructed differently which provides advantages and disadvantages.

Self bows can be repaired in the wild if the string breaks, with a successful survival check a makeshift bowstring can be fashioned if you do not have a replacement.

Laminate bows can be repaired in the wild if the string breaks, with a successful survival check a makeshift bowstring can be fashioned if you do not have a replacement. Due to their construction laminate bows are much more resistant to damage, they are treated as thin iron or steel giving them a hardness of 5.

Compound This bow requires a bow press to restring or the assistance of someone else due to the torque strength of the bow. Compound crossbows generally have a built in or detachable winch. Like laminate bows their construction is much more complex however due to the many moving and intricate parts they only have a hardness of 4.

Simple Weapons
Crossbow; 30 sp; 1d8 P; 120 ft.; Reload 1; Bulk 1; Hands 2; Bow; Deadly d6, aim 30
Compound Crossbow; 120 sp; 1d10 P; 120 ft.; Reload 1; Bulk 3; Hands 2; Bow; Deadly d8, aim 30
Hand Crossbow; 25 sp; 1d6 P; 60 ft.; Reload 2; Bulk L; Hands 1; Bow; Agile, aim 30
Heavy Crossbow; 40 sp; 1d10 P; 120 ft.; Reload 2; Bulk 2; Hands 2; Bow; Deadly d6, aim 30
Compound Heavy Crossbow; 180 sp; 1d12 P; 120 ft.; Reload 2; Bulk 3; Hands 2; Bow; Deadly d8, aim 30
*NEW* Repeating Crossbow; 70 sp; 1d8 P; 80 ft.; Reload 0; Bulk 2; Hands 2; Bow; aim 30

Martial Weapons
Longbow; 60 sp; 1d8 P; 100 ft.; Reload 0; Bulk 2; Hand 1+; Bow; Deadly d8, propulsive, aim 50
Compound Longbow; 200 sp; 1d10 P; 100 ft.; Reload 0; Bulk 4; Hands 1+; Bow; Deadly d10, aim 50
Shortbow; 30 sp; 1d6 P; 60 ft.; Reload 0; Bulk 1; Hands 1+; Bow; Deadly d8, propulsive, aim 50
Compound Shortbow; 140 sp; 1d8 P; 60 ft.; Reload 0; Bulk 2; Hands 1+; Bow; Deadly d10, aim 50

Shoulder Quiver 4 sp; Bulk 1; Hands -
Archery Bag 3 sp; Bulk 1; Hands -
Archery Rack (3 capacity) 1 cp; Bulk L; Hands -
Archery Rack (12 capacity) 1 cp; Bulk 1; Hands -
Archery Rack, battlefield (50 capacity) 10 cp; Bulk 5; Hands -
Crossbow Rack 1 cp; Bulk L; Hands -
Wrist guard and finger tabs 2 sp; Bulk -; Hands -
Bow Press 120 sp; Bulk 8; Hands 2
Bowstring (10) 1 cp; Bulk -; Hands -
Silencing kit 1 sp; Bulk -; Hands -

Shoulder Quiver This quiver has a long strap suitable to placing the quiver holding 12 arrows onto your back. The quiver can be turned around to hang under your arm allowing you to draw arrows from the front instead of having to reach over your shoulder to pull out an arrow. However, in this position, with the draw string untied, sudden movement or falling can cause arrows to fall out of the quiver. You can only wear one shoulder quiver. The shoulder quiver can store arrows but not bolts. Capacity 1 Bulk

Archery Bag This smaller quiver has a large loop instead of a strap that can be attached to your belt or other waist strap. The bag contains 3 small tubes that can store 3 ammunition (or 3 capacity rack) in each. Unlike the shoulder quiver, you can wear 2 Archery Bags on each hip but can only prepare one for use at a time. The archery bag also comes with a detachable shoulder strap, so it can be stored on your back when not in use like a traditional quiver however the smaller length of the quiver prevents the user from drawing from this position. Capacity 1 Bulk

Archery Rack Racks are discs of soft material that are used to store arrows inside quivers or bags. They provide spacing to allow easy draw of the arrows or bolts. racks come in 3 and 12 slot sizes. A Shoulder quiver holds and includes 1, 12 slot rack. An archery rack holds 3, 3 slot racks. Archery Racks can also be used to store arrows in other containers such as backpacks allowing for easy reloading of quivers once they have been depleted. (this requires a full turn to complete) Bulk an empty rack weights nothing, a full 3 capacity rack is L and a full 12 capacity rack is 1 Bulk.

Archery Rack, Battlefield These Racks are wooden or iron stands made to hold large quantities or arrows, some even have hangers for bows. Found on many castle walls and stationed along the battlements to provide defending archers plenty of ammunition from attackers below. A battlefield rack holds as many as 50 arrows at a time. Providing ammunition for up to 5 archers.

Crossbow Rack This bolt rack holds 3 crossbow bolts and can be mounted on the underside of a light or heavy crossbow providing quick access when reloading. You do not need to prepare these bolts unlike a regular quiver. Capacity L Bulk

Wrist guard and finger tabs These pieces of protective clothing are used by archers to prevent friction and chafing while using the bow for an extended period.

Bow Press A table mounted device used to bend a bow to release the string enabling the user to replace a bowstring on a compound bow without the assistance of someone else.

Bowstrings Historically, bowstrings are made of hemp, linen, sinew, plant fibers and animal hides. Almost any fiber may be used in an emergency and can be made in the wild with a successful survival check.

Silencing kit using animal fur, leather pads and cotton, a ranged weapon with the aim trait can be modified to operate near silently, improving your chances of remaining undetected when hunting. Attacking a creature that hasn’t seen you would normally render you seen. Using a silenced bow allows you to make a stealth check to remain unseen assuming you have cover or concealment nearby. If you hit your target, they have a rough idea where the shot came from, due to the arrows trajectory, but cannot pinpoint your exact location. You cannot hide from targets if they are in your weapons first range increment. For Example. you can hide from shooting someone with a shortbow at 65 feet or more, but not at 60 feet or less.

New Trait
Removed Volley and replaced with Aim

Aim Ranged weapons with the Aim quality require you to spend time lining up the shot before firing. The number indicated on the aim indicates the minimum distance a target must be to you to aim correctly. Shooting at targets closer to you imposes a -2 circumstance penalty to your attack rolls.

You take aim and hold your weapon to pick off nearby enemies quickly. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to damage rolls on attacks made within the weapons first range increment. When using a ranged weapon with the aim trait, you don’t take the circumstance penalty to attack rolls made versus targets closer than the weapons aim limit.

Requirements You are wielding a ranged weapon with the aim trait and reload 0.
You fire a volley at all foes in an area. Make a Strike with a –5 penalty against all enemies within a 10-foot-radius burst; this burst must be centered at or beyond your weapon’s aim limit. You can only strike a number of foes up to the number of ammunitions u have prepared.

New Magic Item: Endless Quiver
1 action> Activation Focus
Activating this item instantly replenishes its ammunition. The endless quiver is always considered prepped and does not run the risk of spilling if you are forcibly moved.

Well that’s it for this post. I probably missed some things out but at least the concept is here ready for scrutiny. I would love to hear play-testers thoughts on these rules and don’t worry if you think its all a load of bull, I have broad shoulders and can take the criticism.

Grand Lodge

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OK, so disclaimer first. I downloaded and read most of the Rule book and bestiary but have yet to play-test the game.

The main approach I had was to build my favorite characters from 2nd Edition, as many have been shelved due to changes in the rules since 3.0 (specifically looking at the old kit books). I did the same with the original PF play-test.

One particular character I had was the Dwarven Rapid Response Rider [Complete Book of Dwarves] that charged into battle on the back of a grizzly bear (for which I commissioned Jeff Easley to draw me a portrait of many years ago and is framed above my computer desk). So I started putting together this character with PF2 rules. Especially after seeing Cavalier in the Archetypes.

Each attempt got me close to the 2nd Edition version with just one problem. None of them could ride the bear until at least 12th level due to the fact that the bear is size small!!!!

A simple fix would be to make the bear young companion Size Small or Medium. The problem is the dwarf size category of medium. This only really gives them the ability to ride horses. A Medium bear could thus be ridden once it is fully grown, giving the bear size large as early as 4th level for a druid, or 6th level for a cavalier.

I also think the mount special ability needs some extra clarification as to what it means.

Rulebook Page 283 wrote:
The Special entry, if present, lists any other special abilities your companion has, including whether it ordinarily serves as a mount and is appropriate for mounted classes, such as the paladin.

This just tells me if I'm a paladin I should select a horse animal companion. Seems pretty obvious not to need a defined rule for it. I noticed the work together clause about not using it while riding a companion but I think it needs more expansion, like adding rules for barding, saddle use, etc.

A similar problem also arises with boars, wolves, and cats, but these are generally far smaller than bears and more suited to small races. The largest cat (Siberian tiger) stands 3-1/2 ft at the shoulder, while a polar bear can exceed 5ft!

Other issues discovered while building this post...

The following creatures are all referenced as possible mounts but are not clearly indicated for choices as an animal companion mounts (goblin paladins riding goblin dogs?).

Camels (bestiary 37), Riding Dogs (bestiary 53), Goblin Dogs (bestiary 74), Nightmare (bestiary 90), Wargs and Winter wolves (bestiary 114)

I think it would benefit to add the following 2 abilities;

Bestiary creature ability

Animal Companion [Mount] (Companion Type [beast])

This creature can be used as an animal companion using the companion type specified in its description.
If the entry includes [Mount], Add Special mount, to the animal companion entry.
commentary wrote:
This allows for mount specific versions of animals to be identified for paladins and cavaliers and could be used to indicate proficiency in barding and handling a rider.

If the creature type indicates [beast], this type of creature can be selected as an animal companion if the character uses the Beast Companion specialization ability. Obtaining rare or intelligent creatures as animal companions is subject to GM approval.

The creature retains all special abilities when used as an animal companion (a camel can spit, a boar can charge, a tiger can pounce and wrestle, a nightmare keeps its smoke aura, fly speed, resistance fire 10, divine innate spells and flaming gallop, etc.).
Commentary wrote:
retaining special abilities is just a consideration for clarity, I'm no rules master so this might be unbalanced and might need further clarity/justification for each creature but it certainly needs addressing.


Camel: Animal Companion [Mount] Horse
Elephant: Animal Companion [Mount] Horse?
Nightmare: Animal Companion [Mount] Horse [beast]
Riding Dog: Animal Companion [Mount] Wolf
Tiger: Animal Companion Cat
Winter Wolf: Animal Companion Wolf [beast]

Rulebook specialized companions ability

Beast Companion

You may select a beast creature with the Animal Companion [Beast] ability as your animal companion instead of choosing a specialization. Treat this new companion as if the previous one had died, requiring 1 week downtime to obtain. If the beast companion dies you can acquire a normal animal companion within 1 week. To obtain a new beast companion requires 1 month downtime. Some GMs may require special side quests to be completed before replacing your beast companion if the creature is particularly rare (obtaining a winter wolf while in a desert).
The new beast companion starts off as Full-Grown and does not apply any modifications for full-grown companions (do not increase strength, dexterity, constitution, wisdom, increase its unarmed damage dice, proficiency rank for perception, saving throws or size). apply modifiers normally for nimble and savage companions.
Obtaining rare or intelligent creatures as companions is subject to GM approval so you should check with your GM what creatures are available before choosing this specialization.

Other Considerations...
It would be good to see arachnids, fish and insects included as animal companion types which I imagine you may have already considered but excluded from the play-test due to size issues (pun intended). Many of these also have beast counterparts which would work as companions and mounts (Ankheg, Giant Spider and shark mounts anyone?)

Thanks for listening! I look forward to seeing what more PF2 offers as the months go by.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Heralds of Callambea

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

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Here's some images and video of our recent holding and outpost placements.

Trading Post as featured in the recent Kickstarter Email

Lumberjack Outpost Sporting the Gold and Brown colors of the River Kingdoms Trading Company.

Sanctum Holding

Library Holding and a short Library Construction Video

I will be uploading more images into my websites gallery as we build them!

Beyond the Grave Gallery

Join us today and make full use of our new training facilities!

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Please visit beyond-pfo.com for more info.

Beyond the Grave has risen from the quiet streets of Callambea. We are now recruiting all players interested in crafting, gathering, refining and PvE. Our Goal is to create a thriving trade community where everyone can buy and sell goods.

Callambea is silent no more. Callambea is Open for Business and business is good!

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Today I am proud to announce that Golgotha and the Xeilias Empire are changing.

Frequent visitors may have noticed a little re-structuring going on with the websites and forums. Now the dust is settling I can officially announce that the Xeilias empire as you know it is no more.

All Hail the raise of 'The Empire Orderly's'.

Our Goal in PFO is one of Order and the dismemberment of civil unrest. Golgothans will be frequenting many settlements ensuring law an order is kept in all settlements across the river kingdoms.

Fairness of Tower distribution will be another priority. If another settlement claims one of your towers then contact a member of The Empire Orderly's and we will ensure the thieves are dealt with and your tower is re-claimed.

Find out more here

Grand Lodge

Hi all I been mulling over my first ever PFS character and I have one main concept but cant choose between 2 builds.

The concept is a Swordmaster Tengu that uses feint.

I have come up with 2 concept builds the first is a pure rogue, the second is a 50/50 split rogue/samurai.

Any advise, comments, or complete reworks on the builds is much appreciated.

Rogue (Swordmaster) Version
Duel wield Wakizashi.
Rogue (Swordmaster) 1
Tengu: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, –2 Constitution
Medium, Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Str 12
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 12
Feats: Combat Expertise
Traits: Swordsmans Page, Threatening Defender
Abilities: Sneak Attack 1d6, Trapfinding, Sneaky, Gifted Linguist, Swordtrained, Natural Weapon bite 1d3
Feat/Ability Progression:
2 Evasion, Rogue Talent (Finesse Rogue)
3 Sneak Attack 2d6, Trance (Serpent), Two Weapon Fighting
4 Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent (Combat Trick: Improve Feint)
5 Sneak Attack 3d6, Piranha Strike
6 Trance (Tiger), Rogue Talent (Bleeding Attack)
7 Sneak Attack 4d6, Two Weapon Feint
8 Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent (Honeyed Words)
9 Trance (Monkey), Sneak Attack 5d6, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 Advanced Rogue Talent (Deadly Sneak)
11 Sneak Attack 6d6, Improved Critical
12 Trance (Dragon), Advanced Rogue Talent (Crippling Strike)

Samurai (Sword Saint) /Rogue (Swordmaster) Version
2 Handed Katana
Rogue (Swordmaster) 1
Tengu: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, –2 Constitution
Medium, Low-Light Vision (Ex)
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 12
Feats: Combat Expertise
Traits: Swordsmans Page, Threatening Defender
Abilities: Sneak Attack (1d6), Trapfinding, Sneaky, Gifted Linguist, Swordtrained, Natural Weapon bite (1d3)
Feat/Ability Progression:
2 (Sam 1) Challenge 1/day, Resolve, Order (of the Warrior), Iaijutsu Strike 1d6
3 (Rog 2) Evasion, Power Attack, Rogue Talent (Furious Focus)
4 (Sam 2) Honor in All Things
5 (Rog 3) Sneak Attack 2d6, Trance (Serpent), Improved Feint
6 (Sam 3) Weapon Expertise (Katana), Brutal Slash, Iaijutsu Strike 2d6
7 (Rog 4) Uncanny Dodge, Wave Strike, Rogue Talent (Bleeding Attack)
8 (Sam 4) Challenge 2/day
9 (Rogue 5) Sneak Attack 3d6, Greater Feint
10 (Sam 5) Terrifying Iaijutsu
11 (Rog 6) Trance (Tiger), Rogue Talent (Honeyed Words)
12 (Sam 6) Vital Strike, Bonus Feat (Long Nose Form)

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Ok so I looked at the new video today in my email and while overall it looked amazing, but one thing gave me the sad face :(

at 2:29 in the video you see a female character ascend some stairs to the wall, notice how her movement is never interrupted as she moves, she simply continues running up the stairs.

Now it may seem trivial but I noticed a few other Z-Axis type posts floating around discussing climbing, swimming, and even flying.

This is a big deal in the roleplaying element of the game and for immersion. The last thing I want is to feel like I'm running around on a flat surface that simply uses camouflaged ramps as stairs, hills, rocks and mountains.

I want to see characters pause when they approach a stairs, their hand reaching out for the handrail, and then ascending the stairs. If they choose to run up the stairs they would still use the handrail but leap 2 or 3 steps at a time. Fighting on stairs should be dangerous, risking falls as you move about on the uneven surface.

while we are at it what is the mechanics for falling damage? many games have superhuman abilities to jump and fall 100's of feet with minimal injury. I would prefer to see falling become lethal after 2 or 3 stories, making magic such as feather fall a valuable asset. likewise making jump a spell that allows quick traversing of large areas that would otherwise require a character to climb up/across.

Another thing is Ladders. Physically climbing a ladder (or rope, knotted rope, etc) to ascend a wall is one of the things I love about DDO. It makes the game feel like you are exploring.

Please Devs, get the immersion right on all levels and you will keep players like myself hooked for many, many years, knowing each new area provides new challenges, not just another pretty flat plain to run across at top speed.

Grand Lodge

Now I'm not affiliated with this in any way, shape or form but my god does this look good!

Tabletop Connect Kickstarter

Grand Lodge

I been considering a Tengu Monk build but have constantly fallen flat when trying to incorporate the Tengus swordmastery with monk levels.

So I though what about developing a Feat/Archtype that I could put towards my GM.

Before I do that however I have decided to post it here for some feedback and balancing.

Heres the ideas

Feat Version: One with the Sword

Requirements: Tengu, Swordtrained Racial Trait, BAB +1
Your Swordtrained Trait counts as Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of feats and class abilities, including pre-requisites. You may substitute any unarmed strike with a melee attack with your sword.

Special: If you have monk levels you also treat your sword as a monk special weapon.

Archtype Version: Kendo Master (monk)

Kendo Masters are proficient with light and medium armor.

Sword Mastery (Ex): You treat swords as monk special weapons and gain weapon focus in a sword of your choice. You are considered to have the Improved unarmed strike for the purpose of feats and class abilities, including pre-requisites and may substitute any unarmed strike with a melee attack with your sword. This ability replaces Unarmed Strikes.

Kata (Ex): Kendo Masters learn patterns of movement that, unlike regular monks involve avoidance of the blows, instead rely on attacking and counterattacking with the sword. at 1st level a Kendo Master gains combat expertise but uses his wisdom modifier instead of his dexterity modifier to determine the number of attacks of opportunity he can make in a given round. at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter a Kendo Master gains an additional attack of opportunity up to +5 at 20th level. This ability replaces a monks AC Bonus.

One with the Sword (Ex): Starting at 5th level, Whenever a Kendo Master
attacks with a sword, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a Kendo Master becomes further trained in swords and increases this bonus by
+1 each. A Kendo Master also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with swords. This bonus also applies to the Kendo Master’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against swords. This ability replaces the monks unarmed damage increase.

Personally I'm leaning towards the Kendo Master over the feat but would appreciate peoples thoughts/input.

Grand Lodge

The only thing I see being readied in that photo is the quickly emptying pizza box!

Glad you guys have your priorities right ;)


Grand Lodge

Hi all, I have been pouring over the Ultimate Campaign Rules to see if it would work for my character in a friends campaign.

The campaign uses a mix of Pathfinder (predominantly classes races, and feats) and 3.5 rules.
The campaign is set in the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting.
The characters are evil or neutral alignments including 2 drow, a half-hobgoblin and a hobgoblin.
The campaign uses a hugely extended xp system that has required us to complete (on average) 3-4 adventures to obtain one level!

My Character:
My character is a cleric of the house of shackles (The Overlord) whose portfolio is oppression and slavery.
At character creation I purchased a number of slaves with starting money to begin my career.
Where possible, strong opponents defeated in combat on missions have been procured as slaves to sell to local mines and other labor intensive revenues.
Currently I have 3 Courtesans who ply the local town for information while I'm out "acquiring more slaves" (adventuring), a porter who accompanies me on quests to carry excess gear, and 6 bugbear warriors that I recently acquired in the last adventure to use as pit fighters in a local underground fighting ring.

The character concept is loosely based on the Spartacus TV series. my character fulfils the roll of Batiatus the owner of a Ludus (gladiator training school).

Ultimate campaigns downtime system has provided the DM with a much more structured ruleset as many of the PCs have plans to create hideouts, businesses, and training schools.
For most of the players, the rules work pretty much as written, however there is no clear definition of how to use slaves as workers in a business.
I would like to know what other peoples thoughts are on this matter and how best to expand on the downtime system to include slaves or as a simple houserule.

The other concern is CR/HD of higher level slaves and the effect they would have on the downtime system. Having a storm giant slave will likely fill the role of many laborers for example.

Current thoughts;
My thinking is that slaves count as laborers but cannot be acquired through anything other than gold or rewards.
Acquired slaves through adventures count as 1 person per HD of the creature. since laborer teams include 5 people a 5 HD creature would fulfil the role of 1 laborer team.
upgrading follows the existing rules but the (slave) prefix remains in place. for example you could upgrade a slave laborer team to a slave driver team.

Using slaves reduces capital attrition for 14 days like a manager, and you MUST have a slave master (4gp/day manager) to operate the slaves at all times. If you fail to pay your slave master you lose the manager AND all slaves revolt.
Slaves used in a business increases the risk of detrimental downtime events providing +1 crime and +10 danger modifier. A slave manager does not prevent business attrition although you may employ an additional manager for the business to prevent it.
If you fail a leadership check against a business run by slaves the slaves revolt and are lost.
Any buildings using slaves must provide 1 cell per slave team or 1 bunks per 2 slave teams.

Grand Lodge

Many years ago I built a campaign for d20 Rokugan.

The campaign spanned 15 levels from 1st

The Emperor has recently died and the clans are looking to present a replacement. The main plot involves an evil force who are trying to infiltrate the empire by replacing one of the clan heir's with a sleeper agent. With much finger pointing it is up to the PCs to first discover deception, then they must discover who is behind it, and then finally uncover the agent before the ceremony to crown a new emporer.

As you can imagine the campaign was heavily dependent on the interaction of the clans presented in Rokugan. In its first incantation I had 3 PCs from the scorpion Clan (2 of which were brother and sister) and 1 from the Dragon Clan, but I had built the campaign to allow PCs to choose characters from any clan.

What I'm looking for help on is rebuilding this campaign on Golarion.

Is there any way to represent the clans and their holdings in Tian Xia?

I have ordered the Dragon Empires Gazatteer and have the Jade Regent AP for which I want to run first before launching this campaign, that and it gives me some time to rebuild it before playing.

Currently I'm looking at 2 main approaches.

The first is to scale down the campaign into one area of Tian Xia. This won't be too hard as Tian Xia is alot larger than the Rokugan in terms of scale.

My second idea is to replace the clans with smaller families and placing the campaign on a remote island.

My last option, and probably simplest, is to place the struggle on a parallel world that maintains the core campaign.

I don't like doing parallel world clichés but it's a last option as I enjoyed running this game so much due to its strong dependency on the players making key decisions to shape the campaign.

Any thoughts and input you guys have is most welcome.

Grand Lodge

Please could you cancel my Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription. I have no need for the character folio set as I store my characters digitally.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

many games come with voice chat but for some reason they all sound terrible. I play DDO and alright its not the best voice chat example its certainly typical of poor chat implementation.

As a result I use Skype running in the background to chat with a regular group.

Voice chat should be linked into gameplay too. One word commands to broadcast chat strings, actions tied to voice, even chat linked to NPC interaction!

Grand Lodge

Please could you cancel my Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription. I have no need for the beginners set.

Grand Lodge

For the Past few weeks I been pondering over the concept of the Cavalier as a mounted fighter yet I'm always left with the same concern, A cavalier rides a mount why does D&D require a dedicated class to make mounts viable beyond 5th level?

So it got me thinking that mounts for along time have been only viable for the low end game unless your either a druid or a paladin.

What I propose is that within the Advanced players guide the Cavalier's abilities are tied in with a revamped rule-set for mounts.

Proposed Rule
Mounts are a template that can be applied to any animal or magical beast. The ability to teach a creature to be used as a mount is tied to Handle animal which sets the DC based on the CR of the creature plus the levels of mount.

The Mount Template (Simple) CR +1*
Creatures with the mount template are trained to bear a rider for extended periods of time and are trained for control during battles. The creatures name is often prefixed with the Title of War such as Warhorse or Warpony.

Quick Rules: Gains Run feat and Endurance Feat; +4 to AC and +2 CMD; +2 hp/HD, +1 to all saves; Gains Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Heavy Armor Proficiency if it does not already possess it;

Rebuild Rules: Creature Gains Run feat and Endurance Feat; AC increase natural armor by +2; Ability Scores +4 to Dex and Con; +1 Will Saves; Gains Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Heavy Armor Proficiency if it does not already possess it.

Handle Animal is required to train an animal with the mount template. The DC is 20 plus the CR of the base creature. *For every 5 the DC is increased the modifiers to the creature can be applied again further increasing the creatures CR. A trainer can take a 20 on this check.
The check may be improved on (and thus more templates added) as the characters handle animal skill improves (generally every 5 levels).
The cost of a basic animal trained in this way is multiplied each mount template applied to it (100gp mount would cost 200 for 1 mount template, 400 for a second mount template, 800 for a 3rd template, 1600 for a 4th template etc.).
For Magical Beasts the CR is doubled before being added to the base DC. If the Magical Beast has greater than animal intelligence it will only gain the mount template if it is willing to devote itself as a mount for a single person or cause. A Magical Beast with greater than animal intelligence may abandon the mount template at any time it chooses.

Key Abilities for the Cavalier A cavalier could further build on the mount in the following ways...
While being used as a mount, use riders saving throws instead of own.
Add the mount template again at 1st level and again at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th.

Now I know these templates aren't perfect but the main principle behind them is to enable players to improve their mounts AC, hit points and saves (thus increasing the mounts survivability) without having to maintain a complex creature or introduce a creature that a DM would deem too powerful. The idea is that, if applied to a particularly powerful creature such as a large dragon the player can improve the creature using the mount template without having to go through the standard monster advancement (or age increase for dragons) and does not have to change his mount just to keep it in line with the game.


Grand Lodge

I like the changes suggested by Jason but I think losing the standard action summon could prove overly detrimental to a summoner. The biggest drawback for summoned spells is their cast time of 1 full round. It locks out the options for the summoner for the whole round and offers little diversion from that. Its also not very reactive to a situation since the summoned creature doesn't appear till next round. Quicken spell is an option for a conjurer but for a summoner and his reduced spell progression its not an option at all until very high level.

Personally I been wondering how to make the summoner better than a conjurer and I think I have an idea...

Firstly the spell progression

1 - Summon Monster II
2 - Summon Monster III
3 - Summon Monster IV

4th level ability - instant summon: The summoner can cast a summon monster spell as a standard action. If cast as a standard action the summon monster spell uses up a spell slot 1 level higher than its actual level.

10th level ability - metamagic summoner: The summoner reduces the level cost of metamagic feats he applies to any summon monster spell to a minimum of +1 level per metamagic feat applied.

----- Analysis -----
I first thought about making SM I a cantrip but that would be too abusive I think so I dropped this idea.

The metamagic summoner I'm also not 100% ok with but I think this has potential maybe as a specific feat (perhaps releasing other feats for bards specialising in enchantments or specialist wizards and metamagic feats). The principle idea behind this ability is to make metamagic feats viable to classes with reduced spell lists, making them less flexible than a standard metamagic feat by restricting it to certain spells (or perhaps to a specific subschool?).


Grand Lodge

Reposted from another thread as requested by Jason:

I find myself agreeing with others that perhaps eliminating gear from the eidolon is the best route to take. While limiting it to certain items (i.e. no armor) solves the immediate problems visible, the issue could reoccur as the development and imagination of new magic items become available will have a knock on effect towards the power of the eidolon and the summoner.
It's very much like the polymorph problem (although a little less crazy) in that with each new monster created polymorph became more powerful.

There may well be a solution to the no equipment at all route though. What if the summoner had access to a unique list of spells that armed and armored his eidolon. A spell line like summon armaments that would conjure a single weapon , armor, shield, or misc magic item from a specified list that only the eidolon could use. As the spell line increases more powerful times can be summoned but at a cost of spell slots for the summoner. You could even specify a broader range of summon spells (one for each item slot) so the choice becomes more of an issue for the summoners limited spell selection.

I think this will put the control of the summoners power back into the hands of the class itself. and doesnt stray beyond the abilities of the summoners field. You could also add the spells to the sorcerer/wizard spell list so they could arm an eidolon for the summoner, or open multiclass possibilities for the summoner/wizard(conjurer) strangeness! :)


Grand Lodge

Only really scratched the surface of the PDF before going to bed but what struck me as odd was the summoner gaining proficiency in light armor and the ability to cast in light armor without penalty.

Looking through the rest of the class he gets abilities to share hit points with his eidolon, can take aspects of his eidolon to improve AC and gain damage reduction as well as having the staple wizard protections like mage armor and shield on his spell list. he even has more hit points than a mage (d8 over d6) so why does he need light armor? and more to the point why is he trained to overcome its penalty to casting?

Also how will this ability work with the existing arcane armor feats? can a summoner take arcane armor mastery and apply it to his summoner spells only? if not why must he waste a feat learning something he already has (although limited to one class)?

My personal feeling is that this should just be dropped for 2 reasons, A) its not really that useful and B) it could cause more head-aches and miss-interpretations with existing rules.

Grand Lodge

On first read I'm not enthusiastic about the Cavalier for a number of reasons...

I'm with the others and you can add +1 against the Cavaliers automatic flank during a challenge. Flanking opens up the cavalier for some serious pain for relatively little gain. Put a cavalier in a room with a 5th level warrior and his 4 3rd level rogue thugs and see just how fast the cavalier dies. One volley of attacks from the thugs shortswords could see the cavalier taking 12d6 damage before he's even reached his challenge.

If this was the intent then consider increasing the cavaliers HD to d12 and grant the class some form of damage reduction or increased armor class because most cavaliers will likely be trying to charge their opponents suffering AoO to reach their foe.

The Cavalier seems very skills and saves based on his other abilities but neglects his attack rolls, damage rolls and AC unless specifically dealing with a single foe per combat. while this is more relaxed than the paladins smite evil I get the feeling the cavalier misses the mark as a tank. I know its unrealistic to simply provide him with the abilites already outlined by other classes for fear of destroying their niche in the combat but what about granting the cavalier more specialised abilities like increased AC while using combat expertise or increased CMB? I could see a market for a warrior who compensates his lack of damage and AC by using abilities like sunder and disarm, The drawback of such attacks is the need to use them in place of an attack, why not give the cavalier the ability to disarm or sunder and do a follow up attack as an immediate action? this could also help the cavaliers weakness against sneak attacks if he could disarm those who threaten the flanks. At the end of the day a cavalier is likely to be in heavy armor and his movement around the battlefield restricted unless he is mounted. This should be reflected in his abilities to soak up damage instead of trying to avoid it.

The Cavalier has a lot of abilities that require him to be mounted. In many situations a mount is not of use in a campaign. most typical dungeons, city based adventures and the like will not see the use of a mount. However, this does make him the only viable mounted build granting him bonuses beyond other typical mounted characters such as the paladin. I posted a modification to the knight class that took the rangers fighting style approach. This gave the knight the choice of being a mounted specialist or a foot infantry specialist. The same doesn't fit too well with the cavaliers name but at least it provides more options within the class especially if the campaign might restrict one or the other. You have done the same with the paladins mount by adding a boned weapon and with the wizard/sorcerer familiars and druids animal companion/domain specialisation.

I don't have a problem with the mounted angle of the cavalier but I find it very restrictive and stereotypical. The attention leans more in favor of a prestige class... Let me elaborate on why;
I can see a fighter paladin or ranger taking on the mounted combat angle and multi-classing into a cavalier to gain those benefits but I could not see a cavalier multi-classing away from the goal of the class to pick up abilities from another class more easily.
Also its easy to consider a prestige class for a fighter ranger or paladin but what about a cavalier themed prestige class? short of specialising in a specific mount a cavalier will lose everything his core class has in favor of existing prestige classes like the eldritch knight? This makes the cavalier a one trip pony in my eyes and short of race, oath and order differences every cavalier will likely play out the same.
Ability Analysis
Challenge (Ex): Overall a nice ability that provides the cavalier with a goal during combat to confront the biggest threat and take it down as quickly as possible. However, the flanking leaves him far too open to use this straight away. Perhaps when the rest of the battlefield is clear the cavalier will issue a challenge against the last foe but by then the arcane artillery has probably been dealing a lot of damage to that target already so is precision damage really enough?

Mount (Ex): Having a strong mount is pivotal to its survival and I applaud the use of the cavaliers full class level as his effective druid level. My only concern is its utility in small confined spaces like dungeons and city streets.

Oath (Ex): I like the Oath ability very much, its unique and provides a lot of roleplaying opportunities. I could also see DMs awarding additional rewards from encounters designed specifically towards a particular oath. The problem is some oaths don't offer realistic goals in certain situations. the oath of chastity seems like an easy one to pick if your spending two months hiking through monster infested mountains with little chance of meeting a female. I think there needs to be more oaths too, as well as clarification on whether certain oaths can be taken multiple times (like taking oath of protection for two party members.)

Dark mistress had a nice idea in the Rules thread about having lifetime oaths and task oaths. That sounds like a nice deviation and I think it would help define the amount of effort applied to achieve these oaths.

Order (Ex): These to me are the main aspects that define one cavalier from another unfortunately it also appears to the the only thing. The only confusion I can see appearing from this is the skills section. When a cavalier abandons an order he loses all abilities of the order but how does this affect his skills from that order? does he loose the bonus class skills? does he retain the bonus from class level to a specific skill use?

Bonus Feat: This is far too broad allowing all combat feats to be selected. I would much rather see a restricted list based on the cavaliers order, however, they would also need clarification regarding order abandonment.

Cavalier’s Charge (Ex): This is a nice boost to the cavaliers mounted combat but its very restrictive in its use by being mounted only. I couldn't see a problem with making this affect the cavalier whenever he charges, mounted or not.

Expert Trainer (Ex): This ability is nice but a little abusive. given small characters almost any creature can be a mount and while the ability states it works on an animal that serves as a mount the ability doesn't stop you from teaching non-mount related tricks and this really makes them better animal handlers than druids or rangers which doesn't rest right with me. Perhaps restricting it to the mount purpose or a specific list of tricks would be in order.

Banner (Ex): This is a nice ability and I cant see any problem with it.

Mighty Charge (Ex): I like the thought of this ability to increase the threat range of weapons while mounted. The free CM attack is very nice and does make more use of non-lance weapons while mounted (trip with a flail) however its still only while mounted and only while charging.

Demanding Challenge (Ex): Now this is seriously underpowered to almost worthless. What your saying here is a cavalier issues a challenge at a target and only your allies get a bonus to hit that opponent as long as the cavalier is avoiding meeting his challenge?!?! That seems very backwards considering the only reason a challenge would be issued is to deal additional damage against that target. I could see it being used while mounted and using ride-by attack but beyond that its not worth the -2 AC to keep running away from your challenge target. I would at least increase this penalty and make it so that the challenge is considered flanked at the very least.

Supreme Charge (Ex): As a 20th level ability this seems a little weak. A Capstone ability limited only to charges and only while mounted is a heavy restriction for a capstone ability. I cant see many cavaliers sticking out 20 levels just to do an extra 1 to 2 dice of damage on a charge while mounted plus a change to stun on a critical hit. The Orders 15th level abilities will likely see the top Cavaliers leaving for another class at 15th level and in some cases for greater benefit (5 levels of rogue adds 3d6 sneak attack)

Supreme Charge with Spirited charge clarification would be useful. As it does involve multiple multiplications it can become cumbersome to calculate. I could see some players mistaking a spirited charge and supreme charge with a lance and having it dealing 27d8 on a critical hit!

According to the damage multiplication rules in the core rulebook the base damage is multiplied only, so the calculation should be.

Charge (Longsword) x1 (1d8 or 2d8 on a critical)
Mounted Charge (Lance) x2 (2d8 or 4d8 on a critical)
Spirited Charge or Supreme Charge (Longsword) x2 (2d8 or 3d8 on a critical)
Spirited Charge or Supreme Charge (Lance) x3 (3d8 or 5d8 on a critical)
Spirited Charge and Supreme Charge (Longsword) x3 (3d8 or 4d8 on a critical)
Spirited Charge and Supreme Charge (Lance) x5 (5d8 or 7d8 on a critical)

Overall its a nice attempt but I think it stretches a little thin on abilities to fulfill the role of a 20 level class. I think it would be much more suited to a prestige class still as there is not enough unique and broad coverage abilities to warrant it replacing a fighter, paladin, ranger, or barbarian in a 4 man group. The Cavalier definitely fits a more martial bard by providing bonuses to his allies however so at the least it fits well into the 5th wheel party slot.

Grand Lodge

The rules don't state if its possible to "handle an animal" on more than one animal with a single action, however I personally think its perfectly reasonable to allow multiple animals to respond to the same command.

For example a dog handler uses simple commands like sit, come, stay, lie down, etc and as long as the dog considers the person issuing the commands as "his master" he will act appropriately to the issued command. If their are 4 dogs then all 4 should follow the commands from the same master. the dog trainer doesnt have to call each animal out and in fact to do that would require a higher level of training.

The only indication of more than one animal being treated by a single check is "rearing an animal".


Grand Lodge

I been playing DDO the past few weeks and I notice that with solo play consideration melee combat has a few alterations to what we know in the PnP equivilent.

It got me thinking though, would it be thesible to have an iterative attack at level 1?

The Attack would be with your primary weapon at -5 and usable only as a full round action. This would ideally provide a fighter using sword and shield a reason to use the full attack action (which atm he has no reason to use until he gets iterative attacks unless hes using his shield as an offhand weapon)

Some considerations for balance that I can see first off. Additional attacks like this could have a huge impact on monsters, and the bogging down it would produce with the DMs dice rolls, so first rule I considered is that it only applies to the 11 core classes. NPC classes do not gain this extra attack neither do monsters (unless they have class levels).

Second thought was the impact this would have on TWF / Sword n Shield / 2 Handed. Simple enough to solve, if your using TWF you lose your iterative attack in favor of an offhand attack until your BAB is +5 (at which point you gain interative attacks as normal). 2 Handers can only use the interative attack against another opponent in range, much like how cleave works, this is considered a glancing blow and does Str X 1.

I think its certainly worth playtesting this to see how it works in play - it does appear at first to boost the melee strength over casters at lower levels. I dont know how it would affect higher end play given the fact that as monsters AC climbs so too does the chance of those iterative attacks missing, however a chance at hitting is still better than no chance at all.

If anyone else see any glaring problems with this idea please post and discuss :)

Grand Lodge

For the first time in probably 4 years I have started a game where a character has spell resistance. One of my players has requested to play a drow for my CoT AP.

I'm assuming that for a character with spell resistance to receive the effects of a beneficial spell (such as cure light wounds) from another party member, they must first spend a standard action to lower their spell resistance or risk it failing due to a failed caster check.

Grand Lodge

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Simple Question - What would be the best bloodline to give Xanesha when converting her to PFRPG?

Grand Lodge

I was chatting with a player of mine the other night about the lack of rules in dealing with the costs of maintaining armor and weapons compared to the inflated costs of a wizards spellbook.

For along time now we have always felt that the costs imposed on a wizard to maintain his spellbook has always been unfair compared to most classes who can use the same 2gp dagger from 1st level right up to 20th level with no loss in power or upkeep. Yes I know wizards get 2 free spells per level but that isnt often enough to please the appetites of most wizards planning on a life of adventure.

Anyway, going over the pathfinder rules it dawned on me that the new broken condition might provide a nice side-effect to add an upkeep cost to armor and weapons so I quickly threw these house rules together...

Critical Fumbles with Weapons
On any attack roll that the dice lands on a natural 1 (automatic miss) the player must make a second attack roll with that weapon against his target if the attack roll misses he has scored a critical fumble smashing his weapon into a solid object and giving it the broken condition; the weapons hit points are halved. Further fumbles with the weapon do not destroy the weapon completely and do not reduce the weapons hit points but may still be destroyed by a sunder.

Damaging armor with critical hits
A successful critical hit against you deals 1 point of damage for light weapons, 2 points of damage for one handed weapons and 4 points of damage for a two handed weapon to your armor plus the creatures size modifier x the weapons critical modifier. Hardness applies as normal to this damage.

The size modifiers are Fine -8, diminuative -4, tiny -2, small -1, medium +0, large +1, huge +2, gargantuan +4, colossal +8.

For example and ogre scores a critical hit on a paladin in fullplate armor with a greataxe. The armor suffers 4 + 1 x 3 for a total of 15 points of damage, minus the armors 10 hardness means the armor uffers 5 hit points of damage from the blow.

Thoughts comments and suggestions welcome.

Grand Lodge

Im planning on starting to run CoT in 2 weeks time with a character creation session. I been printing off the players guide and reading through the campaign setting and tBoE and it got me thinking about what sort of alignment restrictions I should impose (if any).

The location of Cheliax has a strong tie towards the diabolic pantheon and I'm not sure if I like the idea of controlling a potentially evil party.

The Adventure summary portrays the PCs as "rebels" but I'm wondering if this is enough of a restriction to force the players to make non-evil characters. The AP is definately portrayed on the good side but the info available for the players may lead to questions from my players about being evil.

Has anyone else dealt with this issue ?

Grand Lodge

I been preparing for my first Pathfinder game using the Crypt of the Everflame module with some relatively new players. On one particular encounter there's a requirement to calculate a creatures stealth check.

This particular stealth check had a lot of variables to consider and wanting to make sure I used the Pathfinder rules 100% without fudging it I started to research into how stealth and perception interact.

I'm putting together a small spreadsheet to help with the calculations but I'm left a little confused by the maths so wanted to run this scenario past you all to check I'm adjudicating it correctly...

According to the rules a creature is spotted on a successful DC of 0 increased by +1 per 10 ft distance (+2 in forests) first made at the maximum distance allowed by a given terrain. For this example we will go with a medium forest and a maximum spotting distance of 140 ft.
Medium forests have light undergrowth which provides a creature with concealment, allowing the use of the stealth skill and providing a +2 bonus.

The DC to spot a creature in the daytime in a forest at 140 ft. is 28.
If the creature is using stealth he adds his DC to this check.
Given a typical wolf with a stealth of 6, taking 10 provides the wolf with a DC 44 to notice him.

Now lets say its night time. Firstly the concealment increases to total concealment because of the darkness. The rules do not state if this provides a bonus to the creatures stealth check or simply makes the Perception check impossible. I'm leaning towards granting a +20 bonus on the creatures stealth check if its moving and a +40 if its stationary when in darkness as if the creature where invisible. As the wolf is advancing this brings the Perception DC to notice the wolf to 64!

Now the wolf advances on the parties campsite. this campsite is in a 25ft. wide clearing and provides illumination equal to 30ft (60ft dim) and moving stealthily the wolf covers 50ft (double move, hampered movement, taking a -5 to check) bringing it within 90ft. of the campfire.

The creature is now within dim light radius of creatures with lowlight vision meaning the wolf now has concealment from dim light and light undergrowth. according to the rules dim light only provides concealment (20% miss chance) but doesn't grant a bonus to stealth checks unlike light undergrowth (+2). However going by the perception tables I would be wise to consider dim light an Unfavorable condition adding a +2 to the DC of the perception check. The DC to detect the wolf is now 18 (distance) + 16 (stealth check) -5 (normal movement penalty) +2 (light undergrowth) +2 (unfavorable condition) = 33 vs creatures with lowlight vision.

Now it gets interesting. Undetected the wolf advances 50ft again bringing it within 40ft foot of the campfire. He now falls into the normal light category for the characters with lowlight vision but still has concealment from the light undergrowth. The DC to be spotted is now 8 (distance) + 16 (stealth check) -5 (normal movement penalty) +2 (light undergrowth) = 21 for characters with lowlight and 23 (+2 for unfavorable condition) for characters with normal vision due to the lack of good light.

Finally the creature moves to within 30 ft. of the campsite (the outer edge of the clearing) and hes no longer rushing movement so drops the -5 penalty. The DC to be spotted is now 6 (distance) + 16 (stealth check) (normal movement penalty) +2 (light undergrowth) = 24 for characters with lowlight and normal vision.

Does this look correct to you all?

Grand Lodge

I‘ll kick the thread off with some of my own thoughts on psionics.
For me psionics is about the power of the mind being used to shape and alter the world around you. It is not magic and not magical in nature although many powers and spells overlap.

The Iconic psionicists from television and movies for me are what I would like to portray when I build a psionic character; from Babylon 5’s Psi Corp to the Star Wars Jedi Council, these are what psionics is all about for me.

I don’t view psion’s as weak mages either, rather more roguish types who use their powers to enhance their skills beyond human limits. I don’t see powers being limited to uses per day like spells, but rather they put a strain on the users mind to achieve greater effects.

Of all the systems I’ve seen for psionics, abilities like psionic focusing, overchannel and power points have been the most flexable but restricting it to the “Vancian” spell system makes me feel a little cheated and wizardy. For me the system should encourage specialisation in key disciplines over exclusion of others making one psion unique to another. The system should also show greater flexibility for younger powers as the psion grows in power providing unlimited use of simple powers.

Lastly I think that psionics should be limited to only a gifted few while having an untapped ability (wild talent) can be taken by all. Wild talents shouldn’t be restricted on taking levels in psionic classes but they should not be able to rise to the heights of power as one who has been trained in the gift from a young age.

Grand Lodge

Like some people I love the idea of psionics in D&D but like many find that the way they are incorporated into the system causes more problems than their worth. As an avid fan of Darksun I'm looking forward to what 4e can bring us next year but I also love pathfinder and 3.5 over 4e.

With pathfinder ruling out psionics in the core rulebook with any form of description rather than simply ruling out psionics I think this actually leaves psionics open enough for a complete rework...

So on to my question...

What does psionics mean to you in the typical D&D universe, what system over the many versions from AD&D to 3.5s expanded psionics handbook do you like the most, is there things you would like to see changed/added/removed in particular and most of all what would make you play a psionic character over the other core classes?

I'm asking simply to get a feel of what the general Paizo audience would like and whether the work im putting into redesigning psionics for my home games fits that general vision. I know what I like but others may vary and its others I'd like to mostly tailor for.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Grand Lodge

Couple of Questions...

Are these printed versions of the cards or is this just the PDF as offered by RPGNow?

If they are printed what card stock are they on and do they come with a reusable box/packet?

Grand Lodge

MY order arrived today but is heavily water damaged :(

multiple pages of Decent into Midnight are stuck together from the damage while ALL of the pages are stuck and the cover discoloured with Clash of the Kingslayers :(

both products are unusable and this is a first for my orders from Paizo.

Please is there any chance of a replacement?

Grand Lodge

For years I have considered the basic assumption of a Paladin as a core class but what is always apparent is that the Paladin is just too much of a specialist class compared to the rest.

My suggestion was to turn the paladin into a prestige class along with the blackguard and instead have a knight class that would lead into these two. however from experience trying this, most people simply go fighter (mainly for the feats) and then paladin or blackguard.

Today though after reading over the comments on the prestige class document I thought about another option...

Why not turn the Paladin into a Knight class based off alignment?

At 1st level knights would choose an Oath of Allegiance to either a Good Church, an Evil Church or a Monarchy. Those that follow the Church of Good gain paladin spells and abilities while the Evil Church gains blackguard spells and abilities. Those who follow the Monarchy are effectively neutral and gain a different selection of abilities and spells.

I would also strongly recommend the shift from wisdom to charisma for Knights spells so that the neutral knights spells would reflect leadership and battle prowess, spells such as aide, bless, etc. would make a knight stand out from basic fighters.


Grand Lodge

I was talking to a friend the other day and we both agree that its better for a wizard to ready to cast daze instead of using counterspell. with the fact that in pathfinder daze is now a spell-like ability this makes disabling single opponents a breeze at low levels, sure its not so effective at high levels but it could still be problematic and against low will save creatures very deadly.

I think this spell needs to be addressed anyway but as the title of this tread reads I think Pathfinder has an opportunity to make counterspelling a viable tactic for spellcasters.

As it stands, and with so many new spells being added to the game, counterspell is almost completely useless unless you have dispel magic. Even improved counterspell feat is almost entirely useless since most BBEGs are casting spells above your parties level.

I had a suggestion that might help...

Counterspell requires an opposed caster level check to work which is a standard action that you must ready. This caster level is modified by certain factors.

Modifiers Table wrote:

Spell you sacrifice to counter is... modifier to level check

Different type (e.g. using arcane spell to counter divine spell) ... -2
Different school (using divination to counter evocation) ... -2
Same spell (using fireball to counter fireball) ... +2
An opposed spell (using haste to counter slow) ... +2
Higher level (using 4th level spell to counter a 3rd) ... +2 per spell level difference

You cannot counterspell another spell with any spell that is lower level than the spell being countered. (exception see Greater Counterspell below)

If you succeed on a successful Spellcraft check to identify the spell (as a free action) you can choose the spell you sacrifice after making the check and identifying the spell.

Using dispel magic to counterspell requires the standard dispel check as normal except that the dispel check counts as a spell of the same type it is counterspelling, in effect granting the dispel check a +2 modifier. In addition, dispel magic can dispel a spell of any level even one thats of a higher level.

Improved Counterspell [general]
Benefit: You can make a counterspell as an immediate action meaning you do not have to ready to use it. you gain a +2 bonus to caster level to resist having your spells being countered.

Greater Counterspell [general]
Prerequisite: Improved Counterspell, ability to cast dispel magic
Benefit: You gain a +2 caster level bonus when counterspelling or being counterspelled (stacks with improved counterspell) and can counter spells with a spell one level lower than the spell you are countering.

Grand Lodge

I know its close to the release of Alpha 3 but having read the minions excerpt on the wizards site I think this is well worth bringing into the pathfinder alpha test ASAP so we can see if it actually works to improve on the game.

My initial thoughts are that unlike the 4e version minions should be made backwards compatable via a minion template. simply put if you have an existing encounter with 4 kobolds and a 3rd level kobold sorcerer by turning the 4 kobolds into minions you would increase the number by a X (probably 1 +1 per 5 CR or some other funky table) so an existing encounter would become 8 kobolds and a 3rd level sorcerer.


Grand Lodge

Perhaps an interesting way to approach ability score boosting items and spells is to change them into modifiers like circumstance, deflection, and morale called Ability (XXXX).

heres my thinking.

You wear a belt of strength, have bull strength cast on you or gain some other ability that increases your strength. Instead of granting you an enhancement to strength the spell or item instead grants an Ability (strength) bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, strength based skill checks and combat maneuver rolls.

To incorporate this you would have to edit all spells and items that provide these sorts of bonuses but it would make book-keeping easier. you could even add in clauses stating that the bonus from intelligence does not affect skill selection.


Grand Lodge

My thoughts on the Paladin.

Detect Evil could be reworded to better facilitate its use in a game. When I play paladins its easier to ask when a paladin isn't detecting rather than when it is. I would feel much more happier if a paladin could sense the presence of evil within a 10ft radius rather than actually homing in on the first thing he detects. Another option would be to give the paladin the effect of blind-sense while combating evil creatures making a paladins evil detection more potent than the 1st level spell but also reducing its effective range so it doesn't affect every single combat. This would also give paladins a reason to use detect evil. in fact thinking about this a little more why not remove detect evil[sp] at will and replace it with an Aura of Detection that grants the paladin blind-sense against evil opponents with 10 ft. and also provides the paladin and allies with 10 ft a a +4 bonus on perception and sense motive checks to against evil creatures?

Smite Evil I would like to see the removal of a missed attack still causing the ability to be used. The way to look at smite in this instance would be that the paladin charges his attack with divine power which is unleashed against the first evil creature he strikes. The useage per day is limiting enough but having the ability wasted really does leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Lay on Hands is fine as is but I would like to see the damage to undead doubled to make it more useful as an attack, however this should grant the undead affected a saving throw for half damage.

Spells need to be charisma based, I'm in agreement with others that paladins suffer with regards to stat dependency. out of the 4 groups I play with they all now use a stat creation system I created that we refer to as the Hero Array. Each character gets the Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) and rolls 2d4+2 adding them to stats on a one for one basis. This system (like the point buy) makes it difficult for characters reliant on more than 3 stats to make effective characters. However I would prefer to see spells go completely since I often use either the non-spellcasting paladin from Complete Warrior or the Holy Warrior alternate class feature from Complete Champion in most of my builds (my current character in one game is actually a Holy Warrior Paladin who will be going Divine Crusader at 9th level).

Divine Bond is a nice addition to combat the uselessness of a mount in a dungeon environment. I'm not sure I agree with the duration of 1 minute per paladin level because In my experience by second level the 2 minute duration will last an entire encounter of almost any size while most DM's agree that between each encounter (unless specifically designed to be continuous) the party generally spends 10 minutes looting and recovering before moving onto the next This makes abilities that last more than 2 minutes pointless (and the same goes for all the spells that have the same duration). I would rather see the use set up as 1 minute fixed duration usable 1/day per plus you can assign (maximum 6/day) and at the paladins choice the weapon radiates light as a torch for 1 hour per paladin level (enhancing a paladins ability to lead the party into dark dungeons for more than just a few minutes a day).

Aura of Resolve, Aura of Justice, and Aura of Righteousness I love these because they do what I feel is sorely missed from all classes, the ability to enhance the entire party. I've said it before and will repeat it here, the base classes need more abilities that help create a party by enhancing each others abilities both in and outside of combat. Encounters are designed to challenge a party and so too should a parties abilities to defeat that encounter be shared. A barkskin spell is far more effective cast on a fighter than the druid, a monk benefits more from a mage armor spell than the mage does but the effects do not reverse very well. a fighter who can parry blows against weaker allies would be very useful for example.

Aura of Faith I'm not sure where to go with this. it reading is a little confusing. the first sentence indicates that the paladins weapon is good aligned while the second sentence indicates that all allies attacks within 10 feet of you are considered good aligned. given that the ability is an aura I would imagine the second sentence is the defining rule and that all weapons are considered good aligned while they ally is within 10 ft of the paladin and that the paladin is included in this bonus. however since the wording say attacks would this also apply to any attack form an ally has such as spells like spiritual weapon?

Holy Champion Well done in providing another final ability that makes staying single classed a viable concept for the base class. This theme must continue throughout the classes. [Applause]

Grand Lodge

The issue of backwards compatibility is probably the most crucial aspect of the Pathfinder RPG.

While some people hope that the backwards compatibility should be maintained entirely, others, like me, don’t mind a little bit of paper work if the result is a more fluid game.

So I figured I’d come up with a ranking system for Backwards compatibility in the hopes that someone at Paizo could produce a poll that could be filled out by the playtesters on the forums. People can then use this same ranking to give their opinions on how backwards compatible other people’s ideas are on these forums.

***** The suggestion requires no change in the rules and utilizes existing mechanics with a slight tweak to make them better. Example modifying DCs of skill checks.
**** The suggestion requires minor changes in the rules and utilizes existing mechanics applied to another area of the games structure. Example using flat DCs instead of opposed rolls for grapple or the new undead turning in Alpha 1.
*** The suggestion requires minor changes in the rules and utilizes new mechanics applied to one area of the games structure. Example introducing defense values to classes or the combining of skills like in alpha 1.
** The suggestion requires major changes in the rules and utilizes new mechanics applied to one or two areas of the games structure. Example restructuring the spell system or using static saves.
* The suggestion requires major changes in the rules and utilizes new mechanics applied to multiple areas of the games structure; restructuring the level system or complete reworking of the CR system.

Grand Lodge

Quoting myself on another thread

Quijenoth wrote:
How many people honestly take wizard at level 1 when they decide play a 10/10 rogue/wizard? I bet almost none! The 8x4 skill points as a first level rogue and 6 hit points over 4 are far to huge a bonus to ignore.

This idea suddenly popped into my head while i wrote this and I have done my best to develop it now.

The choice of 1st level abilities is dependent on race instead of class.

Racial Hit Dice
The racial variant of starting hit points was a good idea from the alpha document.

Alpha Document wrote:

Racial: Maximum hit points for 1st level plus your Constitution modifier and any other bonuses. In addition, you get a number of bonus hit points based off your race.

The frail races (elf, gnome, and halfling) receive 4 hit points.
Standard races (half-elves and humans) receive 6 hit points.
The hearty races (dwarf and half-orc) receive 8 hit points.

So using these as the default 1st level hit points:

Frail races get 4
Standard races 6
Hearty races 8

Class Hit Dice bonus
Instead of maximum the class simply provides a small bonus.
Wizards and sorcerers get +1 hit point at 1st level
Bards, clerics, druids, monks, and rogues get +2
Fighters, paladins, and rangers get +4
Barbarians get +5

Result: a 1st level dwarven wizard with a constitution of 16 (+3) would have 12 hit points at 1st level. An Elven cleric with 10 Con would have 6 hit points. Maximum possible: Dwarven Barbarian with 20 Con would have 18 hit points.

Racial skills
I liked the idea of providing a fixed progression to skills so i will go with that in my rules presented here (it wouldn’t be too hard to back process anyhow, just say each race gets the indicated amount in skill points x4). Skills are assigned based on race. Instead of providing a bonus to skills races provide a default skill list.
Skill level (whether the skill is a class or cross-class skill) is still determined by class.

Dwarves: All dwarves begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills
Appraise, Craft, Disable Device, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Engineering), Perception, Profession.

Elves: All elves begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills
Acrobatics, Appraise, Climb, Craft, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Perception, Profession.

Gnomes: All gnomes begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills
Appraise, Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Perception, Perform, Profession.

Halflings: All halflings begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills
Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (history), Perception, Profession, Stealth

Half-Elves: All half-elves begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills; they may select any one of these to be a class skill
Acrobatics, Craft, Deception, Knowledge (Any), Linguistics , Perception, Profession

Half Orcs: All gnomes begin play knowing any 3 of the following skills
Climb, Craft, Deception, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Nature), Perception, Profession, Survival

Humans: All gnomes begin play knowing any 4 of the following skills; they may select any one of these to be a class skill
Acrobatics, Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Any), Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Survival

Class and Bonus Skills
In addition, all classes get 1 skill + 1 skill per point of intelligence bonus chosen from their class list. In addition characters gain 1 bonus skill from their class list if that class is the characters favoured class (humans and half-elves get this bonus skill point by default). A negative intelligence modifier cannot bring this below 1 and has no effect on skills gained from race.

Note these rules only apply to 1st level, future levels still use the existing rules. i.e. a 1st level Halfling rogue would get 8 hit points (plus con modifer) but a 1st level wizard who took 1 level in rogue at 2nd gains 1d6 hit points. (or 1d8 if you use the alpha document).

Grand Lodge

As a more realistic approach to starting ages adult-hood for all races should be brought down to a more reasonable level to remain in line with humans. Elves over 100 years old before they start their adventuring careers is a crazy idea IMHO.

I propose the following starting ages...

Race - Adulthood - 1 - 2 - 3
Human - 15 years - +1d4 - +1d6 - +2d6
Dwarf - 20 years - +3d6 - +5d6 - +7d6
Elf - 25 years - +4d6 - +6d6 - +10d6
Gnome - 20 years - +4d6 - +6d6 - +9d6
Half-elf - 15 years - +1d6 - +2d6 - +3d6
Half-orc - 14 years - +1d4 - +1d6 - +2d6
Halfling - 15 years - +2d4 - +3d6 - +4d6

1 = barbarian, rogue or sorcerer
2 = bard, fighter, paladin, or ranger
3 = cleric, druid, monk, or wizard

This does not, however, affect their ages of other maturity and all other aging effects are applied as indicated.

Grand Lodge

This may seem a bit premature since the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer isn't due till March. Still, I have seen many people talk about converting Savage Tide to the Realms, Age of Worms to Eberron, and the like but what I would like to see is conversions for those adventures into the World of Golarion!

I would love to see likewise conversions for Modules such as the Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and the like into Pathfinder. Such conversions would likely fall into the realms of the Fans but even a brief commentary from Paizo on suggested locations of said campaigns would be really useful.

Grand Lodge

I was going over the various optional rules that I will be allowing or disallowing for my Pathfinder Games and I got thinking about the Specialist Wizard Variants in the Unearthed Arcana (SRD).

Is it wise to consider the Sin Magic traditions outlined in Burnt Offerings and later in Sins of the Saviors as the main approach for specialist wizards? I was planning on linking each specialist school variant to its relevant sin magic tradition but after researching Sin magic it appears to be an older and evil tradition. I have trouble picturing a Lawful Good Specialist wizard of Greed, Envy or Lust but if the specialist traditions original roots had become blurred or even lost over time perhaps those names would not be known. Either that or Specialist wizards are totally unknown except for a few wizards who have studied the Thassilion Runes?

I would like to think that the runelords magic was a way to add uniqueness to the specialist wizard. any thoughts?

Grand Lodge

I was wondering how people are applying the multitude of splat books to their Pathfinder campaigns?

Are you sticking with the core SRD? if not what sort of rules are you using?

If your using things like the complete series etc. how do you intend to handle requests such as eastern themed classes such as the ninja, samurai or wu jen?

Will you allow the warlock? and if so how do you see it fitting into the world?

It would be great to hear about peoples own Class modifications? I'm looking at modifying some flavor based prestige classes from the forgotten realms to make them fit into Pathfinder.

Grand Lodge

I was wondering if it would be at all problematic to run CotCT and then run RotRL after for the same group? The rumors that CotCT contains a number of links to RotRL sounds like it could ruin the plot of RotRL if they where run in reverse.

My main reason for asking is that a friend in the group I play with has already started RotRL with another DM and I don't want to give away spoilers through the CotCT AP.

Grand Lodge

Recently I purchased the combat pad, along with steel squires spell templates and a back order of the first few gamemastery modules I missed. These items where held over by the UK postal service and required additional payments upon collection to cover additional import charges.

I noticed that the Pathfinder Chronicles Subscription includes the item cards product range and I was wondering if this will be an issue regarding UK imports? It would be extremely annoying if my combined shipping was held over by the postal service with an additional charge.

Paizo do so many great (non-book) products that are really difficult to obtain in the UK (and likely in other International countries too) and the additional import costs and collection issue has always made me think twice about ordering them.

Grand Lodge

RPGXplorer version 1.8 is released and with it the official datasets for the Rise of the Runelords Players Guide and Pathfinder #1: Burnt Offerings.


Grand Lodge

I was wondering what type of leveling system would be best for RotRL and indeed Pathfinder in general?

My personal preference as a DM is to use training rules for leveling but would it be better for the fluidity of the game to handle leveling instantaneously (or after a night of rest)?


Note: If your interested, my house rule requires characters to train with a master (or at a training college) for a Period of 1 week every time they gain a feat from their character level (3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, etc)

Grand Lodge

If in doubt go right to the source ;)

Gamerzer0 has his own acciount on you tube which he hosted the videos seen so far.

In the past hour 2 new clips have gone up with a behind the scenes interview fron gencon with Andy Collins




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