As far as I can tell, the design team hasn’t clarified how the Blood of Dragons ability from Dragon Disciple interacts with the Bloodrager class. I decided to do a little number crunching on a Bloodrager (Draconic Bloodline) multiclassing into the Dragon Disciple Prestige class (for PFS so I stopped at level at 11). This was using the revised version released earlier today (although I don't know if it makes a difference here)
Basically, I wanted to compare 3 things:
1) A straight Bloodrager level 11
2) A Bloodrager 5 / DD 6 assuming that the Blood of Dragons ability from DD did not stack with the Bloodrager draconic bloodline determining powers
3) A Bloodrager 5 / DD 6 assuming that the Blood of Dragons ability from DD did stack with the Bloodrager draconic bloodline when determining powers.
I did not do full builds since you could probably make the choices in feats etc. for each of the three possibilities.
So here is how things ended up breaking down (Note I am not posting full builds for brevities sake and I wanted to highlight the *differences* between the three):
Bloodrager/DD (5/6) IF they DONT stack
BAB: 9
Raging: STR +4, CON: +4, WILL: +2,
Claws: 1d6,
Resist Energy: 5 (Note doesn’t stack with the 5 gained from DD)
Natural Armor: +4 (+1 from BR and +3 from DD)
Breath Weapon: 6d6 energy 1x/day
Blindsense: 30’
Ability Boosts: STR +4, CON +2
"Sorcerer" Claws 1d4 and Bite: 1d6+1d6 Energy (3+CHA Rounds)
Base Fort/Ref/Will: 7/3/4
*Spells only as a 9th level Bloodrager* (no 3rd level spells)
Bonus Spells: Mage Armor (1st ? do you get this since its not on the Bloodrager spell list, I don't know), Resist Energy (2nd)
Bloodrager/DD (5/6) IF they DO stack
BAB: 9
Raging: STR +4, CON: +4 WILL: +2,
Claws: 1d8 and Bite: 1d6+1d6 Energy
Resist Energy: 10
Natural Armor: +4 (2 from BR levels (including the stacking from DD) and 2 from DD itself)
Breath Weapon: 11d6 2x/day
Blindsense 30’
Ability Boosts: STR +4, CON +2
Base Fort/Ref/Will: 7/3/4
*Spells only as a 9th level Bloodrager*
Bonus Spells: Shield, Resist Energy (I assumed that if the bloodlines “stack” then you would use the bonus spells listed in the BR class rather than the Sorcerer Draconic bloodline)
All right so that is it.
Looking at the differences, they are notable, if not terribly powerful.
If you multiclass into Dragon Disciple (regardless of stacking)
You lose 2 levels of spell casting, resulting in no 3rd level spells but no difference in the # of spells known, or, oddly, the # of first or second available per day.
You lose 2 BAB (loss of third iterative if using a manufactured weapon)
Your raging bonus to STR/CON is 2 less, but you gain base stats, net your CON doesn’t change and your STR is actually 2 higher (still at net -1 to hit stuff since you lost 2 BAB). Advantage to base stats since you won’t always be raging, but lower chance to hit while raging.
Your Raging bonus to will saves is -1, but your base Will save is +1 so basically a wash (minor advantage to having a higher Will while not raging in case you are caught flat footed)
You gain +2 Natural Armor
Loss of DR 2/-
You get the same number of bonus feats but get them a level later (6/9 if straight Bloodrager and 7/10 with multiclass) and have a slightly different list (no cleave but added quicken spell and skill focus: knowledge arcana)
You gain access to a bite attack that does 1d6+1d6 Energy (this probably more than offsets the loss of the third iterative attack)
Your breath weapon will change (see below)
Comparing the Stacking to not stacking the changes are a little more significant:
If they stack:
Your 1st level bonus spell is shield rather than mage armor (shield is more useful since you will probably be wearing actual armor).
Your Energy Resist is +5 greater
Your claws do 1d8 instead of 1d6
Your breath weapon will change: either do -5d6 damage (not stacking) or you will be able to use it +1 time per day (stacking).
In order to get the bite attack if they don’t stack you might have to reduce the damage of your claws. Dragon disciple says you only get the bite when you manifest the bloodline claws which do 1d4 damage (not how I think it should work, but a possible interpretation).
Personally, I feel that allowing the Blood of Dragons ability to stack with the Bloodrager Draconic Bloodline results in a more powerful character than not. However, doing so would also prevent any shenanigans of taking a non-draconic Bloodrager Bloodline and still getting some dragon peanut butter in your abyssal or aberrant chocolate (I didn’t look to see if anything really jumped out at me as being an overly powerful combination if they don’t stack)
Thanks for sticking it out!
What are your thoughts on combining the Bloodrager with the Dragon Disciple?
One thing: unless I am reading the description wrong the armor only increases the damage TO 2d8+6 not BY (which is how I assume you arrived at the 3d8+12 damage).
Not a bad build.
Just shooting from the hip here but, I think that staying with Rogue levels may be the best idea after 5.
Since you have already invested so many resources into getting that doubled sneak attack dice vs. flat footed foes it is probably a good idea to stack as many sneak attack dice as possible into the build.
Also, you can grab cleave at level 7, surprise follow through as a rogue talent at level 8 and that would synergize nicely with the skirmisher ability (move 10 ft, sneak attack 1st foe and cleave sneak attack into the second although the second would just be a "regular" sneak attack since it denies their dex bonus but doesn't make them flat footed)
Lastly I'd go with an Earthbreaker over the Tetsubo, you only have a x3 crit but the 2d6 damage is about a point (or two?) higher than the 1d10 tetsubo and crits don't multiply the sneak damage anyway.
Here is the problem you have to take attacks in order of highest bonus to lowest.
I don't see this in my CRB. Was it clarified in a FAQ somewhere?
I think you and I were in the same game, funny how that works. :)
Personally, I am also leaning heavily towards the interpretation that a monk can choose to spend the Ki (or not) after resolving all of their flurry attacks, as long as the monk's turn has not ended.
I was just hoping that somewhere there was a faq or clarification to tie this (admittedly corner-case) into a nice package.
Since no one has pointed to a ruling, perhaps this is worth a faq click?
Can a monk who is using Flurry of Blows wait until rolling all of their normal attacks before choosing to spend a Ki point for an extra attack? Or must the monk declare the use of this ability at the start of a flurry?
Spending a ki point for the extra attack is a swift action which can only be used when a monk is doing a Flurry of Blows. I have done a little bit of searching but can't seem to find anything one way of the other on this.
Hi ya'll.
First let me lay out a quick sketch of what I am talking about.
xZxxx
O|y|O
O|x|O
The player is in position "y", and the end of a corridor, with an open door directly in front of them and walls to either side. Can the player take a 5 foot step to position "z"?
Until about a month ago I thought the answer was "no!" but then I had a late night where I remembered reading a rule clarification that seemed to allow movement like this.
However, my local PFS group recently posted that movement like this was not allowed (my original thought).
My question: Was I temporarily on the crack?
*edited for spelling error that made me look like I was *currently* on the crack*
Thanks for the replies so far, I really appreciate the help.
I just realized that I failed to post the race of the character as Human. Hopefully that makes my feat choices legal (Crane Style as human bonus then Crane Wing a monk bonus).
Also, where do I find Open Palm of Irori? It sounds like a great trait.
The reason I hadn't taken threatening defender was because of the later synergy with Steel Net (which would make fighting defensibly have no penalty, I think)
So, if I go Snake Style I cannot take it at level 1 (using monk bonus feat for Crane Wing). What should I replace Snapping Turtle Style with?
So I have been looking onto joining the local PFS group and decided (recently) to go ahead and take the plunge. I haven't ever played pathfinder before, but I have done a lot of 3,3.5,4, and other non-d20 games.
So here is my first attempt at a character. A human monk raised in a Temple of Irori (after being abandoned as a baby, of course)in Katapesh, who if he survives will pursue his destiny as a descendant of the Aldori swordlords.
Eli
Male Monk (Master of Many Styles/Hungry Ghost)1
Init +1; Senses Perception +6
==DEFENSE==
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 dex, +2 monk bonus)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +4
Defensive Abilities AC Bonus (PFCR 57)
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
Melee Unarmed Strike +4 (1d6+4) 20/x2
Melee Temple Sword +4 (1d8+4) 19-20/x2 monk, trip
Ranged Shuriken +1 (1d2+4) 20/x2 monk
Special Attacks Unarmed Strike (PFCR 59)
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 7
BAB +0, CMB +4, CMD +17
Feats Crane Style (PFUC 93), Crane Wing (PFUC 93 - 94), Improved Unarmed Strike (PFCR 128), Punishing Kick (PFAPG 167), Snapping Turtle Style (PFUC 120)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Climb +8, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception +6, Profession (cook) +6, Swim +8
Traits Fencer (Combat) (PFAPG 328), Wisdom in the Flesh (Religion: Irori) (PFAPG 333)
Languages Common, Vudrani
So my questions are thus:
Is this legal, have I missed anything for PFS?
and
Is my plan to take a few levels of monk before going fighter (swordlord) madness?
Ok, here goes...
Vambraces of the Second Lesson Aura strong evocation; CL 15th
Slot wrists; Price 25,000 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
Description
Closer inspection of these gray woven arm guards reveals the "cloth" to be interlaced threads of iron and adamantine. When both vambraces are donned by a character with a Ki Pool, the powers of the vambraces of the second lesson become available.
Striking the air in front of them as if attacking an imaginary opponent, the wearer may project a line of force. By spending 2 points from their ki pool as a standard action, the character makes an attack against all creatures in a 5ft wide 30ft long line. The attack roll is at the characters highest bonus and rolled once then compared to the armor class of all targets in the area of effect, those targets who are hit by the attack take damage as of struck by of of the wearers unarmed attacks. This is considered a force effect.
Alternatively, the wearer may strike the ground at their feet as a full round action. Spending 2 points from their ki pool to send waves of concussive force through the earth. All creatures standing on the ground within a 20ft radius of the wearer are knocked prone (Reflex DC 22 negates)
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, earthquake, magic missle; Cost 12,500 gp
awww man, now I am gonna be afraid my Reese's is gonna level drain me, thanks Clark!
I was getting a little down, hit a streak of monsters That really didnt do "it" for me. This one definitely does it, well done!
As promised I am now home from work, and after a final edit, may I present.
** spoiler omitted **
Okay, you take your time to get there, and don't give much detail, but that's an 'Oooh, shiny' idea. A little bit more description on what they do and if there are alternate ends other than violent combat to them (can they 'fulfill' themselves out of existence?) would have been nice.
I assume they are some sort of aberration and/or elemental. They remind me a little of revenants, but operate on a different level altogether.
My overall impression is that there isn't much to go on, but boy is there the core of a humdinger of an idea here. This has great campaign potential such as PCs who wipe out a goblin village at first level being haunted a dozen levels later by the great goblin warlord who didn't arise as a result.
Thank you for posting that, Luckless One. :)
Yeah I realized that after trimming it down to what I though the "core" of the idea was that it was now a little bit light on meat. I hadnt really thought of having a non-violent end to them, could be cool though! I was initially unsure if they fit better as an elemental, aberration, or outsider, but after some reflection I think aberration fits the "twisted from what their original purpose/form" idea the best. I am grateful for your feedback. After the feedback on my item showed that I needed to at least turn it up to "11" I tried to crank it a few notches!
As promised I am now home from work, and after a final edit, may I present.
spoiler:
Neverborn
Description:
Sometimes, powerful magics alter the very fabric of reality. The unintended consequences of altering the world are like waves in the ocean, vast and unknowable until they come crashing onto the shore. Some beings are killed before they can achieve a great work; others lives are never created when a death is reversed for one who goes on to kill hundreds. This untapped destiny usually disperses for a time, harmlessly awaiting another who will achieve greatness. However, occasionally the unrealized potential instead becomes corrupt and self aware, thus are the Neverborn created. A Neverborn is the twisted essence of unfulfilled fate. Appearing like a translucent humanoid barely discernable as a distortion in the air, a Neverborn has no identifying features on its blank rounded head.
Powers and Abilities: The first and most disturbing power of a Neverborn is its immunity to all powers that would alter its destiny or discern its future. Most divination magics react as if the Neverborn simply did not exist. Neverborn are often drawn to those who wield powers capable of altering the world. They are intelligent compassionless hunters, striking with surprise and then fleeing as soon as the situation turns against them.
Aura Strong illusion; CL 13th
Slot none; Price 31,200 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
Description
This smooth-carved diorite statuette depicts an eyeless humanoid man with a predatory smile, sitting in a lotus position, hands cupped. The item can be activated once per day through a brief ritual, requiring burning of a small amount of incense while repeating a droning mantra for at least 5 minutes. At the conclusion of this ritual, creatures within 10' of the statue must make a Will save (DC 16). If any creature within the radius passes this save or is immune to sleep effects, the statue has no effect. However, if all the creatures in the radius fail the save, they fall asleep for 8 hours. During this period, the sleeping creatures are magically obscured. No random encounters will occur and even creatures actively searching for the sleepers will suffer a -10 penalty on checks to find them.
However, this item carries a risk if used too often. For each consecutive day that the statuette is used it carries a 10% cumulative risk that the statuette will feed upon the dreams of the sleepers. This prevents restful sleep and causes 1d10 points of damage. The sleepers are also left fatigued and are unable to regain arcane spells for the next 24 hours.
Construction Requirements Craft Wonderous Item, nightmare, veil Cost: 15,600 gp
Ill take a stab at that.
I think its a neat idea, but I believe that the price for what it does is a little high. Having safe sleeping conditions can be a literal life saver, but a group of adventurers who have 30k in group funds kicking around would probably invest it in items without drawbacks (especially since elves and half elves cannot benefit from the item). I dont have a pathfinder core book in front of me so I cannot even guess if the pricing is correct by the rules but assuming that everything is kosher there, I would drop the whole drawback aspect, (allowing the removal of nightmare) and replace veil with maybe illusionary wall (which is only 4th level and being disguised as the "floor" is fine when sleeping I think) that would bring the cost of the item down to a range where I think more PC's would shell out the gp for it.
But still that just my humble opinion.
Oh one last thing to note, the second level wizard spell rope trick can provide a safe sleeping area with no drawbacks for up too 8 creatures starting at caster level 8 So I was using that as a guideline when I was looking at your item.
Maybe someone can do my Bandolier of Hidden Purpose from back on page 4 next? <hope hope>
Wow, some pretty cool items here I think. I'll have a comment or two later today when I get off of work. But for now, my item for comments! (and I welcome all comments, its the only way to get better)
Bandolier of Hidden Purpose
Aura: Faint Illusion (special see description)
CL: 3rd
Slot: Belt
Price: 2,500gp
Weight: 1lb
Description
Upon casual inspection this belt appears the sort that any enterprising adventurer would own. Well made of sturdy material, the belt contains several clasps, pockets, loops, and small pouches that serve to hold any number of small items such as coins, keys, thieves’ tools, dusts, potions etc. In total the pockets, pouches and compartments of the belt can hold 1/2 cubic foot of items, and there are 4 clasps and 2 loops for affixing other small carried items (coin purse etc). Additionally, the largest of the loops is designed to hold the scabbard of a dagger or similarly sized weapon. The magical aura and properties of the belt and any items held within its compartments, pouches, and hanging from loops or clasps, are undetectable by detect magic, identify, or any similar divination magic of below 6th level (analyze dweomer or higher level divinations would function normally on the belt and any items it conceals). While the magical auras of any items are concealed, the items are not rendered invisible, nor immune to divination magic that reveals or tracks the location of an item. Additionally the actual magical properties of an item are not suppressed, thus a glowing magical dagger would continue to emit light, a howling coin emit sound etc.
Construction:
Requirements:
Craft Wondrous Item
magic aura
Cost: 1250gp
What a funny coincidence. I was just telling a coworker about the contest last week, and got his feedback on my item, and then he got all interested in submitting...
Just clicked "submit".
I have a confession to make, I didn't even know about this contest until a week ago, when a co-worker mentioned he was going to submit, and the discussion about the item he was designing got my creative juices a-flowin'.
Whoo!
