Knick's page

It's been a few years since I've had a chance to run this one, but I could throw in a few things that I did. Some of my CotCT advice has been considered pretty good on this forum in the past, so maybe I can help. I'm going off the dome so forgive me if I'm fuzzy on the details.

I have the escape from Korvosa seem like a real escape. I have the Red Mantis ravage Harse if the PCs so much as talk with a townsperson or buy a drink there on the way to Blackbird Ranch. They will see the smoke on the horizon and a survivor can tell the PCs what the attackers were looking for. I harass them with Red Mantis all the way to the Kaer Maga--at least two attacks to show that the queen is serious.

If there isn't a Skar-Klah? (whatever the moon clan with the truthspeakers is) Shoanti PC, I emphasize the need to find a good native scout in Kaer Maga. Feel free to borrow my inn run by a Korvosan expat, The Crimson House, complete with sassy gargoyle above the entrance making fun of everyone in a bad Boston accent. The best scout, the Cinderlander, is currently out on assignment, but they don't want him anyway because he kills Shoanti instead of helping people drop in to say hi. They are going to need an actual Shoanti scout. So far the three times I have run this campaign, Rolth is still alive at this point (if he isn't, you can still bring him back for fun--necromancy being what it is), so I have him try to get his revenge on the party in Kaer Maga as well, celebrating the weirdness of the city along the way.

I like to get them into some deep trouble with a Kaer Maga faction and/or Rolth so that Sial can bail them out. This is a much better meeting than originally written, so that the party has SOME reason to not just kill the evil cleric guy. Sial needs them if he wants to recover the fangs, and he knows it. So he will play nice with the heroes so that he can get what he wants in the long term. I like to use the Havero encounter in the depths of Kaer Maga, since it fits there so well. Usually not with Sial unless they need him to show up and save teh day. I hate Deus Ex Machina in most situations, but if it sets up a questionable alliance with a villain I make exceptions. Normally, I use it as a mission to sooth a faction or to right a wrong or the creature is being awoken from its slumber by Rolth or to get an actual Shoanti scout to help them find the Shoanti truthspeaker clan. Either way, I spend half of this book in Kaer Maga because I love Kaer Maga. City of Strangers is a great book. There are a couple adventures set in Kaer Maga as well to pull from. If you aren't planning on running the Shattered Star AP, there is a Kaer Maga book there to get ideas from for sure.

As they travel the plateau, I have them find signs of the Cinderlander (Shoanti heads on sticks with crossbow bolts in the eyes iirc), whom their scout will speak of the devil tshamek with fear and respect. It makes the last encounter at least a little interesting, at least. I also like a distant red dragon sighting just to get their minds working.

With all of this extra stuff in the beginning, I cut out most of the Shoanti chain quest (well, I move up the havero so that isn't "skipped"). I have them going straight to the moon temple to find a truthseeker and use the Red Reaver encounter as enough to get the Shoanti to be friendly. Because it is cool, I have them do the Cindermaw quest to solidify their worthiness. I skip the other test with the bulettes. So, to get the truthspeaker to help, they just have to kill the Red Reaver and do the Cindermaw thing. I still have Cinnabar show up to die in a few rounds without the players ever learning any of the bajillion words of text written about her (classic Paizo). This way, even if they fail the Cindermaw test, fighting admirably and helping save the Shaonti from a Red Mantis assault get them the assistance anyway and keep the plot moving.

I know the newer version has a disjointed return to Korvosa to free the Grey Maiden dropouts, but I do not like how it was hamfisted in (wasn't there in the original version). I have that event happen in Book 6 when the heroes get back to Korvosa and need to help lead a rebellion against Ileosa. Seems weird to learn of the weapon that will save Korvosa and then go all the way back to the city without it so they can go all the way back to Belkzen.

Anyway, that is what I've got off the top of my head. Hope it inspires!

SO, the thing about the Harrow Deck of Many Things is that it is a double-edged sword. With the end goal of having fun being the most important thing in any game, and with the party so close to the end that campaign fatigue could definitely be a real thing, plus, if a character gets ripped out of the campaign by a bad draw, the player will likely not be excited or into their brand new high level character who is shoehorned into the party for only the last leg, and you have to waste time you should be spending on racing to the conclusion to instead justify a random high level character who just happened to show up and not like Ileosa...

I would let them know everything that is going to happen. No reason to take your campaign off the rails when you are so close to the end. Ultimately, it is about having fun. If you want to mess with your players, give Beirawash Mobility and Spring Attack like he had in the original books, read up on how hilarious low visibility (dirty, stirred up water once characters and giant fish start moving around) underwater combat is, and lay waste to a high level group if they aren't the type to be prepared for every scenario--including underwater stuff that hasn't happened AT ALL during the entire campaign. Hilarious.

But that way, they get wrecked by a sneaky fish, and not an unlucky card draw. In my experience, most players would rather die fighting.

Just my two cents

Just gaming the other night my gm was wishin for a landscaped screen, and I couldn't agree more. I feeel like it enables you to see so much more of t=your players and the battle matt. The portrait style screen is just so tall! It really feels like it cuts you off more from the gm/players (whatever side of the screen you are on.)

Come on PAIZO, any plans!?! Don't tell me WotC was able to copyright the landscape thing, but if not what arn't we getting our landscape screen?

(Now I just need to convince everyone of the benefits of the landscape character sheets!)

I use this one for lots of games. You can also put some more useful tables on the back. I mean, I don't know how a GM would survive without Table 12-5: Treasure Values per Encounter at their fingertips all of the time, but some will find a way.

Just put whatever artwork you want in the front sections... like PC obituaries!

For those that already got their product, how good are the pictures of the young planar dragons? And for the four horsemen steeds? Thanks for the reply!

The horses are alright. The Pale Horse is definitely the best one.

The young dragons are cool. Three of them are downright cute, which I think is great for a young dragon. Infernal, Paradise, and Rift look like children. Big, scary, winged children, mind you, but the artist(s) captured "young" dragon very well.

One of the small bases that came in my box is red. My guess is that this is by design. For the Combusted, maybe? Or maybe it is a fluke and I got the one weird red base.... or I won a trip to the pawn factory where I get to meet the oompa loompas!

All of that aside, pawns are the greatest thing ever. This set does not disappoint. You may even get a red base... which means I might even break the seal on this bag. After a few boxes I stopped opening the new ones.

Getting out of the Donjon in Scarwall ought to be hilarious (although I suppose PFRPG forbiddance is weak sauce compared to 3.5e)... and how on earth can the party hope to use the prize they find there? Depending upon how far away from Lawful aligned they skew it's hard to justify Kroft ever trusting them after a job or two in the first book, and (as Ian Bell stated) it seems extremely unlikely that they will endear themselves to Orisini. So, the written hook for Book 3 is out the window and the hook for Book 4 and Book 5 is killed by association. Hard to imagine the rebellion rallying behind a group of terrible people aiming to take the throne for themselves who only MIGHT be better to them than Ileosa. NobodysHome's point concerning Book 2 is also very valid. Hell, the initial hook for book 2 is also a tough sell for evildoers... Why should they give a damn about Grau's niece?

What it really boils down to is: how much work are you interested in doing to bend this AP to an evil party? The above paragraph highlights several things that have to be rethought and, likely, rewritten to accommodate an evil party--and it is far from complete.

In CotCT, like all APs, the characters have to be built by the players to make sense for the AP. They have to come up with their own motivations and ties to the city. The campaign traits certainly help, but they are not a cure all. I see that you mentioned restricting alignment to a point, but alignment is only two words on a piece of paper. Are they going to play Lawful Evil characters? Or just write it down and play NE or CE as it pleases them? You know your players.

If you are determined to rework CotCT for an evil party, it can certainly be done, but you will likely have to come up with entirely new adventure hooks throughout the entire campaign. Everything in the books assumes a party that is dedicated to the city of Korvosa and willing to do whatever it takes to save it (and their fellow Korvosans). If you don't have "Heroes of Korvosa," the fabric of the story is sort of lost, and it becomes a VERY different story. If you're cool with that, than go for it. My best advice is to carefully examine all of your hooks and NPC attitudes. As written, these will all be strained by an evil group.

If you have any specific questions about adapting any of the adventures, I'm always happy to revisit my favorite adventure path.

Hope that inspires!

P.S. In my personal opinion, you're running the wrong AP. I'm not saying don't do it, but there are other APs that are much better suited for an evil group. APs that don't end up being a different story when run with evil players. Just my opinion, of course.

I did one reading for the whole party. To make it run smoothly I did the harrowing ahead of time, subbed in any cards I thought were thematically appropriate, and then stacked the deck. This way I had a prepared reading and it didn't take forever to muddle through card meanings and what they might all mean (which is exactly what happened the first time I did it--lesson learned, that was a terrible half hour of gaming.

I remember one of Lem's jokes: What's the difference between a dwarf and a bag of otyugh puke?

THE BAG!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Mechanically I find it interesting, and the card thing is very cool. I appreciate all of the work it takes to throw this kind of thing together, and I'm happy that you have shared it. If I am ever lucky enough to find a third group of players to run this game for, I will strongly consider doing this (obviously, the players' interest in a mini game would be the biggest determinant).

I have a few questions: Approximately how long does it take to play? Now that you have played through it, is what did you like most about the game, and what did you like least?

From a story perspective, I have an issue. You are very possibly removing Sabina's redemption story, which also means every Grey Maiden dropout stays locked up, and the party doesn't have as much information about Castle Korvosa itself (although Neolandous can give them a lot of info from before he fled). In that spirit, if I were to make one suggestion, it would be to allow a city card (if you like random) or maybe a turn count (if you don't want the event happening too early or too late) to trigger Sabina's desertion of the Queen and destruction of Zarmangarof--to that end, you can make the dragon a much deadlier and dangerous card with the knowledge that it will be removed at some point. It could even be the major turning point of the game if suddenly the party had to maneuver their armies to free the half-trained (but still better trained than peasants) Grey Maiden prisoners. I suppose now that I've thrown that out there, maybe secondary objectives would be a neat idea, possibly incorporated into the decks somehow--or maybe they would just over complicate things...

Anyway, the whole thing looks pretty neat, and I like that fact that you thought big and avoided the d20 system for a type of scenario it is clearly not well built for (not that it was ever supposed to be, of course).

Did you mean this one?

I know that I personally added more urban elements to my CotCT games. I expand the first module a LOT, the second module quite a bit, and the third module a little. I also do some urban adventuring in Kaer Maga, which is a fun contrast since they aren't famous, local, plague-curing heroes there. I then expand upon the first part of book 6 a lot.

So while it still ends up being 1 3/4 worth of books outside of Korvosa, I expand enough to make it less than 20% of the campaign.

Obviously, this is a bit of an undertaking, and not supported by the books as written.

I have a feeling this is never going to happen, and, in my opinion, Curse of the Crimson Throne doesn't really need it. If they are going to re-release an Adventure Path, I'd much rather it be one that seriously needs a revisit. Second Darkness would be my vote. That AP screams of unfulfilled potential. I can't know this, but I'd bet that is one Mr Jacobs would love a second shot at (no pun intended)--especially considering how much he likes his elves.

All of that said, there are some changes I would like to see for the sake of future GMs (I've resolved these my own way the times I've run it, and I need to find a whole new gaming group for a chance to run it yet again). As usual, I only speak in giant text blocks! The changes I would like to see are:

--Expand the "prologue" part of Book 1. I already recommend this to every person that comes on these boards asking what they should do when they run this game. The party needs a chance to "meet" Eodred's Korvosa.

--Clean up Book 3. Seriously, I love me some Arkonas, and I've had an absolute BLAST running this module, but I feel as though it is in SPITE of the book itself. The whole Emperor of Old Korvosa part is not organized very well. Unless your entire party is constituted of sneaky gits or masters of disguise, and they can bestow all of that to Laori, there is only one way to get to the Emperor. I admit, it has been a few years since I read it, but I remember a lot of space dedicated to how they get to Pilts. May as well save some time and write up every location as if the place is on full alert, because that is almost certainly going to be the outcome. Additionally, the entire Palace Arkona is tediously mapped out and then populated by challenges that should be VERY difficult for a party of appropriate level when taken as a whole. I suppose in 3.5 they give you the silver bullet in Glorio's vault (if you can get there first and know enough about my favorite fiend), but that rule didn't make it to PFRPG. I'm completely fine with leaving Glorio around for Book 6 myself, but when you do the party isn't getting enough loot to keep up with WBL. I don't want to sound all negative here, so let me add in that the Vivified Labyrinth is fantastic, and maybe a sidebar on how to run this somewhat complicated area at the table would be welcome. They can copy/paste my post on it. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but kinda...

--Rewrite Book 4. As a Shaonti sourcebook, it is an overwhelming success. As an adventure, it is not so much. The mega-railroad was so bad they added a sidebar in the original printing (at least, I think I remember that). The Sial intro is also weak, and it does not set up a future alliance very well. As written Cinnabar (sp?) has as much impact on the story as Darth Maul in Star Wars--show up for a fight and die. At least the book gives the GM tools to foreshadow the Cinderlander, or else that would be yet another Paizo character that gets a thousand words of background that the characters will never know or care anything about. I think this book is salvageable, but it requires a lot of massaging to make it work. I have heavily converted this book in my games, while attempting to keep the spirit of it intact... which has resulted in all of Book 4 being converted into half of an adventure and the journey to get to it taking greater prominence as the first half.

--Expand the Rebellion. Book 6 dedicated a lot of print to Castle Korvosa, and, while it is a very neat location, the cost of that was a very condensed set of encounters that involve the PCs breaking the chains of Ileosa's rule. The Grey Maiden prisoners get saved off screen? The blooding is a footnote? Old Korvosa is still quarantined and NOBODY CARES? I realize that last one is dependent upon the PCs' actions in Book 3, so the little sidebar they give us is understandable.

As for what NPC ends up as what class? I'm not that picky. There's a couple obvious ones like Vencarlo the Swashbuckler, Devaulus the Alchemist, and Cinderlander the Hunter, but, ultimately, these sort of things don't impact the story or its telling that much. All I ask is that they don't give seemingly every villain levels of Monk and/or Rogue... or at least don't consider that the same CR adjustment as some other classes with abilities that really show up in a 4 round bout.

Just a few thoughts.

Knick wrote:

I've got a couple notes jotted down for this AP, but I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by NPC reference list.

Here is what I have come up with so far (please excuse the references to the PC's and their backgrounds). Basically just a list of the major NPCs involved in the adventure with a short blurb about their background.

** spoiler omitted **...

Oh, OK. As you can read around here, I don't know the meaning of "short blurb," at least not when it comes to major NPCs. My short blurb list starts the campaign as a list of generated names for people that I expand upon when I assign the name to an NPC during the game. The ones for my two CoCT games got pretty large since it is a big city and I really wanted to land that point with the players. I'm afraid that is only minor NPCs though, and none that are mentioned in the books (although the one group's favorite MPC of the campaign was a gargoyle in Kaer Maga that had NOTHING to do with the story).

Sorry.

I've got a couple notes jotted down for this AP, but I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by NPC reference list. So I must answer with a definitive "perhaps!" I'd be happy to share anything I've got, so if you want to explain to me what one is I'll get it to you. Although I must warn you that a lot of my notes are old school pen and paper so I can't guarantee timeliness.

It's a fine backstory, but without having the hook it is difficult to see how the adventure will run. As I mentioned above, what hook you use can drastically alter the way this adventure plays out. I do have a few things that you may want to consider. I'll get through some of the quick ones first before I go into my usual mouse wheel crushing comments.

ON XANESHA AND ANDAISIN
I don't know exactly what level your party will be when they get to this point, since you are running 3 books before this one, but I think you could totally do the lovers thing and put them both in the room together. Lady Andaisin by herself is only a challenge to the party because of the meatgrinder they went through to get to her. Having run this twice, she hasn't been a major problem (although I did do very well with a hold person the first time around). You'll obviously know your party well by this point. You can have a lesser version of Andaisin statted up if you fear they might be in over their heads. You also have the Daughter of Urgathoa in your back pocket. If the fight is going badly for the PCs, Andaisin stays dead. If it is going well for the PCs, go forward with the transformation. This is one of the easier fights to manage on the fly.

ON THE RIVAL PARTY
I like the rival party idea, as that can always be a fun, recurring foil for the group, but, as explained so far, I'm not really seeing how they come into the story. Saving Ileosa's city from a plague doesn't seem to warrant any negative attention. It would be more sensible that thwarting her Maidens' mission at the Lady's Light gets her attention (maybe even have a confrontation or two in plague-ridden Korvosa?). Being known to have sihedron shards would also be a good reason, but that might logically demand Ileosa's personal involvement. Of course, the rival party could just be hunting the same shards and keep bumping into the PCs--eventually putting them on the Queen's radar by being two steps ahead of her minions.

ON HOW THE PARTY APPROACHES THIS WHOLE THING
If the plan is to send the party to Korvosa with the clues: Xanesha, Vorel's Phage, and "something awful to Korvosa," expect the PCs to immediately pin the plague on Xanesha and forego containment encounters in an attempt to find and stop Xanesha. There will be no reveal. Additionally, nobody with a mark that says they aren't infectious is going to hide that during a plague. As soon as the party bumps into one of these people, they are going to ask where they got it from. This will IMMEDIATELY point the party towards the doctors, whom they will very correctly surmise are working for Xanesha.

Your adventure still has lots of potential to be very entertaining, but it is a little too simple for the PCs to unravel, and this approach effectively scratches out other encounters. Ask yourself this: would you go stop the impending conflict between Korvosa and the wererats caused by the population's suspicion that the lycanthropes are helping spread the plague, or would you go stop the person who is spreading the plague? This is the question you will be asking your party. Both the immediate good and the greater good lean towards saving the city from the plague, which would naturally ease tensions between the wererats and Korvosa without the PCs even getting involved--not to mention it saves many lives and (more importantly) souls.

With the information you have Brodert revealing to them from the journal, you are effectively sending the party to Korvosa with the knowledge that they have to stop a plague. They also know by this point that those killed with the mark have their very essence funneled towards awakening Xanesha's master, whomever that may be. Consider your party's motivations carefully.

Now, if that is the straightforward adventure you want, then have at it. It does fall in line with some of your comments:

The story becomes the PC's effort to stop the plague, thwart the Red Mantis/Urgosans and finally defeat Xanesha. Oriana will remain behind to fight to free her sisters from their torturous existence under Queen Ileosa while the PC's resume their search for the Sihedron shards. Meanwhile, during their time in the city, the PC's will have drawn the attention of a rival faction, possibly the Queen herself, again acting under Sorshien's influence. A group of Chelaxians will be sent after them, including an ambitious young noble (Cavalier, Order of the Peacock), two Hellknight loyalists, his Inquisitor mentor (Asmodeus) and a vengeful Red Mantis assassin gone rogue. From this point until probably SS#5 or RotRL#5, this rival party will dog their steps in their efforts to recover the Shards first, replacing its membership as appropriate.

A little misdirection, however, goes a long way. It also helps you guide the PCs along a different, more circuitous path. I'm gathering from your comments that you want to have some fun in Korvosa (and who doesn't want to stage an encounter during imp vs psuedodragon fight?) and tie in Vorel's Phage. I mean, put yourself in the players' shoes. Is it better to have the tie in handed to you? Or would you rather "earn" it? Would you rather a book or movie that spelled the plot out for you at the beginning? Or one that kept you guessing until the moment when everything suddenly comes together and it all makes sense? Only you can answer these questions for you and your group. It should be fairly obvious by now that I personally like the less direct approach.

IDEAS ON HOW TO HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO
So here are a few thoughts on how you can keep your adventure from immediately becoming a mad race to shut down Xanesha, while still incorporating all of the elements I think you want in the adventure.

IRONBRIOR'S JOURNAL
My strong suggestion is to not give away too much at this time. All the PCs need to gain from the journal is where to go next. So make sure Ironbrior mentions Xanesha's trips to Korvosa, the fact that she has allies and schemes in Korvosa, and that he is becoming jealous of a mystery person he thinks may be a lover of Xanesha in--you guessed it--Korvosa. That ought to do it. No need to bring the Phage in just yet, they'll get that fun reveal later. Also, there is little need to go on about something awful planned for Korvosa, since your PCs will likely get the hint. If you think the hint needs to be stronger, have Ironbrior's journal talk about the sihedron rune and how it steals away the recipient's soul upon death for Xanesha's greater purpose, which Ironbrior suspects is some sort of fiendish power grab that will allow her to rule all of Varisia. Very shortsighted, I know, but does your Ironbrior even realize that Xanesha is a lamia?

If the PCs decide that they need to go to Korvosa and find out what Xanesha is up to, you have a grand success.

WHAT EXACTLY IS XANESHA UP TO?
Obviously Xanesha is collecting greedy souls and using the plague to sow enough chaos that she can work freely. Stealing souls, however, has a basic, known, visible requirements: the sihedron rune. Assuming you don't want the PCs to immediately know that the plague is Xanesha's scheme (keeping in mind that it will immediately be suspect numero uno unless you throw them off the scent--see previous comments for ideas on this), you can't have people walking around with sihedron runes given to them by the doctors. Queue up the Hospice! This is where all infected people come to be treated. Here's the best part--some people receive successful treatment, lending credibility to the place. Conveniently, they aren't the greedy ones.

The doctors can screen everyone that comes in, and use some basic questions or offers to determine the greediness of the person. If they aren't very greedy, they end up receiving real, bonafide treatment and have a chance at survival. If they are greedy at all, they are marked with the rune and hastened to Karzoug's service. Nobody is carefully inspecting plague-ridden corpses, so the rune should go completely unnoticed unless a clever, macabre PC thinks to check a mass grave.

THE PLAGUE IS VOREL'S PHAGE!?
You still get your Phage reveal, only the players have to get it from the paperwork on the Direption just like all of the CotCT groups do. Hopefully, you have done enough that the party still has doubt about the plague being caused by Xanesha, and they get the fun "AHA!" moment. Then you can procede dwith your kick-Xanesha's-butt adventure.

ENCOUNTERS THAT DON'T INVOLVE KICKING IN XANESHA'S DOOR AND MISSING OUT ON ALL THAT KORVOSA HAS TO OFFER
These encounters can now hold some serious weight. If the party is kept guessing what Xanesha's involvement is, you can send them around the city chasing rune carved murder victims--preferably plague-free ones. You can let them think that the wererat conflict might be part of her plan. You can keep the party pointed in the direction of the runes that Xanesha is putting around the city to distract the PCs that she has to know might be after her. I mean, if she was foiled in Magnimar, it only makes sense that she takes greater precautions in Korvosa. You have a chance to run the adventure much closer to as written, with a rogue's gallery carving stars into people while the city panics.

THE BEST PART
By not handing the party the plot at the very beginning, they get to "figure it out." They can save hundreds or thousands of lives, prevent a major conflict between the city and its lycanthrope community, stomp through any part of Korvosa you want them to, and achieve a sense of accomplishment thwarting a devious villain who went to great lengths to throw them off her trail. Compare that to knowing exactly what they are getting into and steamrolling to the conclusion. Better than that, you don't have to scrap 2/3 of the book!

Now, all of this is my personal opinion, but doesn't that cake sound delicious?

Hope that inspires!

You can do better than presume. The Cerulean Society is absolutely based in Old Korvosa. The Guide to Korvosa does not give any more information than that though. I'd like to think it is somewhere on Garrison Hill, away from the destitution of Bridgfront and the Old Dock.

b) Once they connect with an NPC or two kill them off (7-days is a great way to knock off NPC or PC family members / friends) or injure them in someway. This serves two purposes. First, it endears them to the city and her citizens and second furthers their dislike for the villain.

I am just going to remind you to be cautious with this tactic, as the end result of every NPC the party gets attached to being killed is a party that doesn't attach themselves to NPCs.

You really don't need the party to LOVE any of the NPCs, so much as you need them to be acquainted with them. Random dude getting caught up in the riots and killed is one thing. When it's the nice lady that lives two doors down from you? Maybe you only talk to that person once in awhile, but the event hits closer to home, as it were. You can also pull on the usual heartstrings and make the elderly or children suffer--it usually doesn't matter if the characters know them in this case. Murdered dogs can also provoke a pretty strong response, and I used that in book 3 as a cheap trick to help the party hate the Emperor of Old Korvosa... and Laori.

Most of the examples listed in my previous post were delivered by NPCs that the party was aware of, but had not built strong relationships with. The baker showering them with muffins had never even met them, but the PCs had a huge impact on his life and he needed to thank them. That two sentence encounter not only celebrated the party's accomplishment, it also reminded them that their actions in Korvosa affect many, many people. This is just one way that quick and dirty NPC acquaintances can be used to create the backdrop of your story.

I should have mentioned before that you can get the same storytelling advantages by killing off NPCs that the party doesn't particularly like. That weaponsmith that overcharged the group because of the Shaonti PC getting killed by the plague still hammers the point home that people the characters know are dying around them. It also conveys the "state of the city" just as well as killing off NPCs that the party really likes. It also shows the players that no NPC is safe, and that you as the GM aren't "picking on" the ones they like.

Anyway, if a group is really attached to a NPC, think carefully before you kill them off. You only get to play that poker chip once, so make it worth it. I'm not advocating that you should never kill off an NPC that the party really likes, of course. I just believe that you should have a strong story reason to do so before you pull the trigger. Your players care about that NPC--don't waste that story element.

Hope that inspires!

Well, I agree with the other posters here, but I also disagree to an extent. I will always agree that a player has to bring their own motivation, and that a player is responsible for assisting the development of any story, I also strongly believe that a GM has to make those tasks easy (and entertaining) for them. A good group will helpfully latch on to your hooks because they know it is in everyone's best interest, but as the GM you owe them good hooks.

This does not obviate the great advice given by others this post, and I highly recommend that you take it. I believe, however, that putting it all on the players is a little unfair--especially if you don't get the results you are hoping for and cast blame upon them. Basically, don't stop there.

My best advice for this AP has been, and always will be, to expand the intro. Take a little time adventuring in King Eodred's Korvosa. Establish as many NPC relationships as you can, and then exploit them like crazy to give the party news and rumors--but, most importantly, to convey the plight of the common Korvosan. It may be obvious to you that Korvosa needs heroes, but sometimes the heroes need to be reminded.

As an example, I expanded Lamm's organization and had the PCs taking it down piece by piece, focusing a lot on the shiver dealing the book suggests he's involved in. This gave the party almost two weeks of game time to "meet" Korvosa and allowed me to casually introduce lots of NPCs. The Old Fishery was a bit anti-climactic after a fight against alchemists in a shiver lab with only thin glass separating everyone from hundreds of dream spiders, but Gaedren is out of his prime anyway.

All of those NPCs (neighbors, shopkeepers, etc.) were a multitude of storytelling outlets. A few sentences can say a lot:

--A barmaid proudly telling the party it's her last night before she joins the Grey Maidens (late book one or early book 2)

--The keeper of a shop the party frequents bemoaning the loss of his wife to plague (book 2).

--A baker showering thanks and muffins on the characters for saving his children from the plague. (early book 3)

--A child, scared and alone, because his parents were taken away for resisting the Blooding (book 6).

--A mother, heartbroken since her daughter was "conscripted" for the Grey Maidens (book 6).

Of course, an NPC can do more than talk! Once you have a bunch of NPC acquaintances, the storytelling opportunities are endless:

--Have a few die in the plague.

--Have a few survive the plague because of the PCs.

--Have a few lose loved ones that the PCs have never met in the plague. It still counts because they will share their favorite bartender's pain.

--Have some be injured/killed/lose property during the riots.

--Have some be saved by the PCs during the riots.

--Have the super-grateful, unluckiest one that had to be saved in the riots, and then had to be saved from the plague, and then had to be saved from the Emperor of Old Korvosa turn out to have been killed by Grey Maidens while the group was romping around the Cinderlands and too far away to bail their friend out one last time.

You get the idea. These incidents can still help drive home the evil of Ileosa in a vacuum, but if they come from NPCs that the characters are familiar with, it will build attachment and motivation (beyond XP and loot). A city is a place where lots of people live. Make Korvosa a place where a lot of people the PCs know live, and heroes will rise to save them.

Hope that inspires!

I'm always happy to help! The quality of the help, however, cannot be guaranteed...

Well, I'm not THAT up on Shattered Star, but I have run Rise and Curse (twice) so I have a little to stand on.

Based upon what I've read in the thread so far, here are a few thoughts that might help keep 7DttG in line with your game and prevent your primary plot from being derailed by the Crimson Throne plot. This is less about the overarching story of the AP, and more about how to work it into what you are trying to accomplish while focusing on the Rise and Star plots.

This post will be less of a suggestion than a couple points for you to consider. If you have any follow up questions, I am always happy to drone on for long, meandering posts.

THE PLAGUE
A big part of 7DttG is the reveal that the plague is, in fact, not naturally occurring. If the characters know it is an attack on the city, they are immediately investigating the source and who is behind it. In the book as written, the Direption gets a passing mention, but the adventure steers the players towards containment and dealing with the consequences of contagion before unleashing them upon the good doctor. If the players know that the plague is an attack, you will have to work hard to convince them to spend time on the "containment" encounters when they know that there is a source to crusade against.

Keep in mind that if the players aren't given some kind of red herring to work with early, being sent to Korvosa to thwart Xanesha just as the plague hits is hardly a coincidence. Maybe have some obviously murdered and not plague ridden victims with the rune carved in them turn up? Maybe they arrive in Korvosa and there are already WANTED posters asking for information about the "Star Killer."

Essentially, if you make the connection between Vorel's Phage and Blood Veil too obvious and too early, you have a very different adventure on your hands.

THE HOOK
A lot of 7DttG abuses the relationship that the party has already established with Field Marshal Kroft in Edge of Anarchy. The adventure itself begins with the party being asked to help a plague victim related to a character they meet in the first book. Oriana being a way in seems to be a little bit of a stretch, unless you use her background in the Korvosan Guard to make her a previous friend of Cressida. Kroft is already a bit seditious by the time the Grey Maidens are rolled out...

Which reminds me! You may need a different reason besides the plague for Ileosa to roll out her Grey Maidens as the premier fighting force of the city. Or not. It is likely your players will never ask--you know them best. You could also decide that they were a large royal guard who is only now being given expanded power because of the plague...

Where was I? Ah yes! The hook. So to run the adventure closely to the book, you need a reason for Kroft to trust the PCs enough to elist their help (Oriana and desperation probably work fine here), and a reason for the party to volunteer their aid instead of hunting down Xanesha. If your party is particularly altruistic this shouldn't be a problem, but as soon as one person decides that stopping whatever Xanesha's grand, soul-stealing plot is advances the greater good far more than what little they feel they can do against a plague (how many times can you cast remove disease in a day, Sir Tanksalot?), it gets harder.

Perhaps there is a way for the PCs initial investigations to reveal that Xanesha has skipped town once she heard the PCs arrived? I mean, she has set up the Urgathoans, ritually murdered a few people to keep the PCs off the scent, and used her guile to make the bureaucracy convince Ileosa that Dr Davaulus is the best man for the job of fighting the plague (which, to be honest, she probably doesn't care much about anyway so the recommendation is easy to accept). After this she moves on to her next plan, wisely deciding after last time that tangoing with the PCs is better left to her new allies. Hopefully, you have thrown the PCs off the scent of the plague being her machination, but that means it is very possible they decide to leave town and chase Xanesha--only the quarantine just went into effect and the players are stuck dealing with it. I'll be the first to admit it is a cheap trick, but the players won't mind once they find out that they foiled her plan by stopping the plague. Having Jolistina carve sihedron runes into all of the guests at the Carowyn Manor would also serve to keep the party interested. Just a thought.

Of course, Xanesha could have just let it be known that she left the city in an attempt to get the PCs out of the city before the inevitable quarantine makes getting back in to stop her impossible, only for the party to not learn the information until the quarantine works against her. This way you can still have the showdown with her occur naturally in this segment of your campaign.

QUEEN ILEOSA ARABASTI I, MAY HER REIGN BE LONG AND PROSPEROUS
I think you are wise to keep Kazavon and his influence out of your campaign entirely. If the Sorshen whispering in her ear thing advances your plot, run with it. If it doesn't, than I would probably just have Ileosa be her usual, evil self all on her own. Either way, it is probably best to have her maintain a low profile in this one. The enemies are instead the agents and allies of Xanesha. This will keep the party firmly in the Runelords plot instead of skipping rails onto the Curse plot.

AFTER THE DIREPTION
Here's where things might need a little more massaging, and possibly a few cheap tricks. On the Direption, the party should discover the document implicating that the plague was sold to Davaulus by "B7." At this point, the PCs know that the doctor the Queen hired to save her city is, in fact, the man who plagued it in the first place. Naturally, they will go to Kroft, and this is covered in the book. That said, the party might still want to tell Ileosa. Unlike in the written adventure, Ileosa would probably be pretty pissed off if she discovered she was being conned by Davaulus and would be more than happy to crush him like a bug. Not so much because she cares about the city, of course, but more because nobody pulls a fast one on the Queen and lives to tell of it. So in this case, you just have to keep the party from informing the Queen. Maybe she has absconded to a villa outside of the city while the plague is rampant. Or maybe she is refusing to let anybody in the castle. Either way, you have to keep this problem in the PCs' hands so that they end up being the ones cleansing the temple of Urgathoa. On a side note, there probably shouldn't be any Grey Maidens inside the building. I'm sure you considered that already.

That's all I have off the top of my head. If you have any questions or want some more ideas, let me know.

Hope that inspires!

Optional resources include the legitimate Harrow Deck from Paizo. Adds a little extra awesome to your harrow readings.

The Guide to Korvosa is a pretty fantastic book. I can't recommend it enough.

As Lakesidefantasy said, this AP is not written for Pathfinder, so a little conversion is necessary, and a lot is encouraged. Knowing ahead of time which PFRPG skill checks are going to replace 3.5 skill checks as written, for example, is very important. I know if you poke around these forums, there are some excellent conversions that are ready to go. You still may want to convert a few bad guys yourself to get a feel for the new system. I don't know what kind of prep time you have between sessions, of course.

P.S. My one best piece of advice for this AP is to expand the intro. Give the characters a chance to "meet" Korvosa before everything goes to hell. It gives you great storytelling and foreshadowing opportunities, and it give the characters a glimpse of what they are fighting for.

Wild west/fantasy seems pretty broad. I suppose it depends upon which aspects of a wild west setting that intrigue you. To create an environment similar to the wild west, you need a few things:

1) An established civilization "back east," or, better yet, competing established civilizations.

2) A large expanse of land unsettled by said civilization(s).

3) Some valuable resource that drives the civilizations and individuals to colonize this large expanse. Think gold rush--or ghost rock, which might be more fantasy appropriate.

4) A native population that was perfectly happy until those civilizations started paying attention to the land they live in.

That pretty much sums it up. In a fantasy setting, it helps if you create a few obstacles that prevent magic from making it all too easy. I'd probably have some sort of reason for teleportation magic to not work over any sort of distance in this expanse to make other methods of getting the resource back more important. This also keeps all of the classic travelling through the west tropes alive.

Really, once you have those elements the other wild west stuff writes itself.

That's as much as I have off the top of my head. I hope it inspires!

Hey Laric!

How is your game going? I haven't heard from you in awhile. Not going to lie, I'm looking forward to Book 3. Love me some Arkonas!

Knick, I'm especially impressed by the depth of your response.

That was pretty short compared to most of my posts...

You are very welcome, of course!

But seriously, I'm happy to go on and on about this particular AP. I also specialize in out-metagaming experienced players. So if any more questions come up just throw them up on the board!

MrVergee makes a very good suggestion. What you should do depends upon how you want your characters to feel about the Queen at this time, and it also depends upon how your Ileosa sees the PCs.

To the PCs, she presents things exactly the way MrVergee suggests. The one thing I might add, however, is some dialogue to show Ileosa's faith in Davaulus as a doctor. Suspicions are not facts. The "proof" is just a piece of paper. She doesn't discount the PCs' discovery, but she also doesn't immediately take it as fact. Basically, the PCs are accusing Davaulus of starting a plague so that he could charge Korvosa a king's ransom to cure it. Seeing as how he is a leading expert in his field and has done similar work stopping plagues in other cities (that may or may not be a lie--your choice), he is either a savior or the worst kind of person imaginable. Look at it this way, Ileosa can't come out seeming like a moron for hiring this guy. She asks the PCs to be discrete in their investigation, if only for the people of her beloved Korvosa. Right now, Davaulus is the only hope they have. If it turns out that the PCs are wrong, spreading rumors now will make it impossible for him to do his job. Obviously, if they are correct, then Davaulus will be executed and a new solution will be pursued. Either way, there is no reason to get the people any more worked up until the facts are made clear--for the sake of the city, of course!

Option 1: Ileosa decides to go all in on eliminating the PCs now.
Obviously, a move right then in the castle is dangerous. The characters have probably been building a positive reputation, and in order to get to the Queen a LOT of people had to see them. No need to make a move immediately. Instead, she informs Davaulus that he's got a group of adventurers on his tail, negotiates a better rate over the slip-up (every gold piece counts when you're subjugating a city), and has the defenses of the Hospice increased significantly.

Since the most obvious tool of Ileosa's "justice" right now is the Grey Maidens, and she can't very well trust anyone else to be in the Hospice, they are the weapon of choice. Obviously, the Queen's betrayal will be revealed, but since the PCs aren't going to live to tell of it, their revelation will be short lived. It ought to be fun when the party thinks they're doing the Queen's work, only to have their path of escape from the temple blocked by Grey Maidens. This can occur as soon as they get downstairs, or wait until after they have defeated Andaisin.

Springing the trap early means less potential damage to the plague operation, but it also means that the party will be more capable of escaping once the Queen's direct involvement is revealed. The deeper they are in the temple before the Maidens are committed, the more likely they will be forced to stand and fight--they will also be less difficult for the Grey Maidens to defeat.

If you decide upon the Maidens waiting until they party is battered from the fight with Andaisin, you will have them in a tough spot. If it goes south for your group, you have the convenient deus ex machina of Blackjack, which also helps set up great motivations for the party in Book 3. Normally I avoid those types of situations like the, well, plague, but since they get to return the favor pretty quickly I don't think it ruins the game experience much at all.

In this scenario, I would probably have a bunch of Grey Maidens waiting
in a building next door, only to be deployed if Davaulus fails. Davaulus would be informed that the PCs are on to him, and to prepare accordingly. Obviously, the Queen's involvement must be hidden, so no Grey Maidens can be deployed to help him defend the temple. What is she paying him for, anyway? To help with the ruse, have two Grey Maidens at the front door. They will act as if they are expecting the PCs (they are), and let them in with a nod and a wink (how hard is it to see a person wink in that helmet?).

The end of Book 2 is where the party becomes convinced the Queen is the enemy in most cases anyway, so having the PCs be made VERY aware of it isn't so bad. If you would rater keep the game running into book 3, try out Option 2!

Option 2: Ileosa decides to hedge her bets.
In this scenario, Ileosa isn't completely sure her Grey Maidens are ready to handle a group like the PCs. At least, not able to handle it quietly. Ultimately, it doesn't matter to Ileosa what the PCs think, so much as what the city at large thinks. She informs Davaulus of his incompetence, and demands to know what the Red Mantis are going to do about it. She isn't paying them a king's ransom to bungle the plan and ruin her reputation. She pulls the Grey Maidens out of the Hospice, if only to minimize her apparent involvement. She lets the doctor know that she will throw him under the donkey cart if this scheme goes public--so don't let it go public.

Now, Davaulus didn't get to where he is today by being timid. The man has a fair amount of confidence in his own abilities and the backing of the Red Mantis. I would treat the whole temple as on alert, really making the PCs earn it. Add some more physicians to make up for the Grey Maidens, or maybe just some mercenary thugs with surprisingly similar stats...

In this way, you can basically run the adventure as written, with a simple "I was wondering when you would show up" line added to a Davaulus or Rolth or Andaisin monologue.

If Davaulus succeeds and the PCs are defeated, Ileosa can continue as normal. If the PCs succeed, she has no direct involvement and can pin it all on the doctor. Rolth is also a nice target here. The two times I ran this AP I played Rolth up as a little unhinged, and in his own mind he thought the plague plot was all his anyway. I conveyed this to the PCs by having him scream to the clerics to stop the group from ruining his work. It ultimately didn't stop either party from determining that the Queen was behind it all, but it was a noble effort and I'll try it again if I am ever so lucky to run it for a third group. Also, do yourself a favor and let Rolth get away--he can be a lot of fun.

Anyway, in this case Ileosa makes sure that she can't lose either way the PCs' investigation turns out. Having hired the plaguemaker is a black mark on her decision making, but not nearly as bad as being the person who had the plague created to cull the city of offensive poor people. Obviously, whichever bureaucrat that is resisting the new order most will be executed for passing along the Davaulus recommendation, since he/she was obviously in league with the doctor. Maybe you can throw the PCs off the Queen's scent with this, maybe you can't. Honestly, you need the Queen-as-enemy to be revealed soon anyway, if only to drive the PCs out of the city at the end of Book 3.

Hope that inspires!

Well...

If Mom and Dad had eloped at some point, making Caelus a disenfranchised scion as opposed to a bastard, I could see things going easier. Especially with the very lawful Korvosan types. If you wanted to make it a bit less black and white, they could have had a Shaonti ceremony instead of a Chelish one, which might be looked down upon by some family members or completely unrecognized by others.

Either way, my guess is that becoming legitimate Korvosan nobility at the end of this fantastic AP shouldn't be too much of a struggle for a character with a mind to do it.

So I guess the answer is, basically, yes.

Well, I never got that multipack, but I have over 30 flipmats and they are all exactly the same size and thickness.

Hope that helps

Good stuff

I agree. I mean, I probably like to mess with players' heads and assumptions more than the average GM, but they appreciate the mind job when they get fun reveals and surprises. They even get to have the fun of knowing it all along sometimes, although I do my best to avoid that (which makes it more satisfying to the player when they earn it).

It's all a song and dance by the Queen to win the people over long enough to sacrifice all of them for her eternal youth. Well, at least that's the plan once she learns about the whole eternal youth option.

Anyway, Ileosa was a devious, manipulative woman BEFORE she found the Fangs of Kazavon. Play her that way, and your players won't know what to believe until they search the Direption. Having run this twice, I've had two tries at keeping the party off of the Queen's trail after that ship, and I still haven't been able to do it. I don't want to brag, but I've had both of those groups not realize Glorio Arkona was a rakshasa during book 3. No matter how much I tried to pin the plague on Rolth, I just can't make it stick. If I'm lucky enough to have a third group to torment, er, run this game for, I'll try to emphasize Rolth a little more a little earlier so that they might believe he's behind everything for a little while.

Honestly, if you aren't messing with your players' minds what is the point of running a game? The whole point is for everyone to have fun--GM included.

My initial idea was how a socially and economically charged protest swirled and churned into riots against the Queen. So this protest for the Justice against this slain guy and the guards overreacting their attempts to protest then turns into demonstrations against the guard for overreacting and the government sanctioned authority. But now with the king dead.. Well now it's the perfect time and all sorts of people to protest.

To me, the death of the King was more like the reason why this incident went massive. The lack of confidence and uncertainty of future with the Queen and pent up frustration is really what caused this... Which is what I wanted to have the original protest be about. An outlet for pent up frustration.

That was my plan but perhaps this is too complex for the game.

I think the big problem with this idea is that the party may become less inclined to align themselves with the guard. It isn't necessary for the party to be super guard friendly, but it sure does help a lot. I mean, your players might be all on the side of the analogous Ferguson police department, but if they're not you are just setting up the Korvosan Guard to be one more problem/antagonist. It also takes some of the thunder out of the Grey Maidens approach to riot quelling. Part of the reason that the riots get so bad and the Korvosa guard is stretched so thin is their unwillingness to kill Korvosan citizens. There aren't too many protests once the Grey Maidens institute a brutal martial law.

If you really want to take this approach, you should make the incident involve Hellknights. They are more likely to use deadly force in the name of law and order, it doesn't make the Korvosan guard seem like bad guys, and Ileosa can kick them out of the city as a PR move.

Hope that inspires!

Technically you are both correct. Zellara's links to the living world are both her cards and her home, although the cards are the primary focus for her anguish and despair.

I like it a lot.

I'm not entirely sure how much I would stress the At War bit or Eel's End in general, but everything else looks fantastic to me.

If you've read these forums at all you probably know how much I love the Arkonas. I like using the warehouse for Gaedren's operation, and I especially like how you have Glorio handling the fallout. I suppose my only concern would be Gaedren's lack of affiliation with the Cerulean Society, but that is easily explained if this is Vimanda's game.

The reason I suggest against incorporating too much of Eel's End is that it connects too many dots. Korvosa is a big place. There is plenty of room for lots of criminal scum. It also let's the written Eel's End encounter have some novelty when it comes up. Lastly, I think it behooves you to come up with your own, similar meeting place for the party that they won't possibly end up trashing so you can develop some basic NPC relationships to supply exposition on the state of Korvosa at any given time.

The only other tweak I might mention is to not introduce Kroft too early. Let the players be little fish for just a little bit. Grau and Niffe should be plenty. Besides, Kroft sort of IS the bureaucracy. In my mind, the only reason she starts financing vigilante justice is because she is undermanned and undersupplied during the biggest crisis Korvosa has known in the century since thousands left to found Magnimar.

Anyway, I think it is pretty neat, and foreshadowing Verik's desertion is a good play. I like it a lot.

There's a lot of good stuff bouncing around this thread. I have a soft spot for this AP, so I can't help but comment with long, boring paragraphs. Obviously, it should go without mention that this is just one person's opinion--what works for your game may vary.

In response to the Mr Vergee prelude approach: I like what MrVergee is going for there, but if somebody wants to play an elf or some other slow aging race the whole thing needs to be overhauled. Also--and this is just a personal opinion--I feel as though he is playing through and letting fate (dice) determine some of the character background stuff that I want to develop for my hero. The campaign traits provide several reasons to hate Lamm, and that accommodates more character archtypes than Mr Vergee's (in my opinion very good) planned out prelude.

In response to Gaedren as a recurring villain: Let him die. Let the players win. Don't steal that sense of accomplishment. Besides, too many recurring villains get stale. Save that card for the showstoppers like Laori and Rolth (I also highly recommend introducing Sial in a very different way than the book). Letting Gaedren die allows the players to switch gears and give the post-Eodred anarchy their full attention. Can you blame characters with a built in vendetta against Lamm for completely abandoning the city's needs to chase down yet another lead on Gaedren so they can finally make their revenge stick?

In response to linking Gaedren to Rolth: I'm not entirely against the idea, but when everything is linked together it all seems contrived and also makes Korvosa seem like a smaller place. If I were to link them in any way at all, I might have Rolth know who Gaedren is/was. More than likely, the necroterrorist has little use for a criminal who feeds bodies to a croc or chops off their heads, leaving nothing good to work with.

In response to characters with homes: The first group I ran this AP for was not as interested in worrying about where in Korvosa they came from, and they were more than happy to live at the inn on Kressida's dime. This gave them a convenient base of operations, and so the hooks were simpler and the group stayed together. When I ran the campaign a second time, I was determined that the party would have roots in the city and know why they were fighting for it. I made a point to make the Guide to Korvosa readily available, and I encouraged them to have roots in the city (this was also when I expanded Lamm's operation). In this case, I forced them to have a place to live and let them know that I would charge them the rent per month that was listed in the book for whatever home they chose.

Whether or not that is an owned house with upkeep or a rental is up to you and your players--3 out of 4 characters I had were renting, and the fourth would die before parting with his family's estate. I ended up with some great characters who used this to help flesh out their backgrounds and status. The two characters living in Bridgefront were very different from the scion of a wrongly dishonored noble house from North Point, who was different from the widower son of nouveau riche South Shore merchants living in Midland. It was more complicated to get the whole group in one place for certain encounters as they slowly overcame class boundaries to unite against the threats to Korvosa, but we all had a lot of fun just getting from home to Citadel Volshyenek during the rioting. The noble not understanding how to get across town without hired carts was a hilarious episode. If I am ever lucky enough to run this a third time, I will make them decide where to live again. Not every player will use this as attachment to the city, but if just one does that makes it worth it.

This doesn't preclude giving the party a line of credit at the inn or a Chelish ambassador's house. I know that my two characters from the shingles decided to move into Zellara's place once they discovered she was dead--taking advantage of the 2 year escrow that Gaedren always used to.

My thoughts on characters with jobs: The jobs thing is entirely harmless. Let's face it: adventuring is much better money, so it is likely that the jobs are very temporary. I've had a rehabbed shiver addict working a bar in the shingles over Bridgefront (The Flying Anchor, named so because someone got a very large anchor up there. Renamed to Anchor's Away after it got dislodged and fell to the streets during the riots), I've had a working con-artist, a guitarist, a private eye, I've even had an exterminator (someone's got to get the rats off of his dad's small merchant fleet), and some others. I've also had characters without jobs. A priest of Sarenrae who gave away his spellcasting to the poor and they all contributed to keeping him fed and sheltered, a disenfranchised noble who played escort to several wealthy widows so that he could maintain his lifestyle, and some others. Ultimately, the jobs don't stick after they are getting more money in one of Kroft's tasks than they used to make in months. And if the jobs are getting in the way, there is a combination of rioting, looting, customers too afraid to leave home, and plague to put their place of employment out of business. I never had to go that route. I did get two very funny "I QUIT!" encounters though.

Some thoughts on Rolth: I like him as a necromancer a lot. Evil necromancers are classic trope, although I prefer to take more of a necroterrorist spin on it. His plots are grand, if not always well thought out, and his obsession with destroying the PCs after they ruined his grandest plague scheme of all (in his own twisted mind the idea was all his), killed his elf, and ransacked one of his hideouts rivals the party's hatred of Gaedren. In the second run, some good saving throws by the party meant he was still in his gem during a magic jar that was thrown into a pit far away from his body during a battle in Kaer Maga. Normally, I like to let the players have their day since this was their third Rolth encounter (where I let him lie the first time I ran this), but I couldn't help myself. I had Togomor put that gem into an advanced, flying cannon golem hellbent on recovering his spellbook. Dutifully serving Ileosa to guard Castle Korvosa only because he knew the party would show up eventually. That fight was so much fun that I had to let the players have their victory and leave him dead--if only because I couldn't top it.

A final side thought on Jolistina: I was very leery about overplaying this NPC because I wanted Laori to be my batshit crazy elf exemplar. I'm not against keeping her around as a fun part of Rolth's character, but I didn't go out of my way to save her to make future appearances. I thought she might survive the second time I ran the game, but the gunslinger was so horrified and infuriated at the callous and unrepentant way Jolistina murdered everyone at the masquerade that he put one in the back of her head as soon as he was left alone with her. I considered zombie bride type stuff, but instead used it as more reason for Rolth to hate the group. If she ever makes it out of Carowyn Manor, I'll obviously have a decision to make. It will very likely be to bring her back with Rolth, just not in book 2.

Hope that inspires!

There is a god chance I'm woefully late to help, if anything I say would actually help, but just in case I'm not, or for the sake of others reading the forums, I'll throw in my 2cp.

You are absolutely right about the opener, and expanding the beginning is the number one best advice I can give to anybody running this game.

The solution I would offer, however, doesn't require Zellara to forget where her body is at all, she just needs to fib a little. Why? Because killing Lamm isn't good enough. She wants to tear down his life just like hers was and then kill him.

SO, just have her tell the party that she doesn't know exactly where Gaedren is (not a complete lie if we cling to the literal definition of exactly), but that she DOES know where one of his lieutenants is. If they could bring back a personal item of the henchman, she can use that connection to aid in her divinations. Then you send them to as many shiver labs and bad bookies as you like, where the vindictive group will likely take those personal items from cold, dead hands--destroying Lamm's organization in the process. I made them Lamm's actual children, which made it more fun for everybody involved. Then they ultimately take down Gaedren and the city goes to hell. Of course, the old fishery was kinda boring after a battle with alchemists in a small underground room with only a thin pane of glass separating everyone from thousands of dream spiders, but I guess there is a price for everything.

Hope that inspires!

On a side note, it has been a long time since I read and ran this game last, but, as far as I recall, he son died trying to get the cards back and Zellara died trying to get her son back. I'm guessing Gaedren has killed lots of people, why he chose to put her head in a box when he doesn't seem to collect lots of bodies I don't know.

My best advice is to expand Lamm's operation and give the party time in Korvosa during Eodred's reign. I did this by using the brief mention of Lamm being involved with Shiver to build a mini drug empire for the players to bust up. I had Zellara sell "total revenge" to the players and had her point them to cogs in Gaedren's machine, and the players collected personal items from the main henchmen to help Zellara guide them to the next spot and ultimately Gaedren. As long as they end up with the brooch when the city starts burning, you're probably doing alright. Why I suggest doing everything before the anarchy is so that the party gets to "meet" Korvosa and know what the heck their fighting for. This was the biggest change I made when I ran the AP for a second group, and it made a world of difference.

There are a few things you should consider when taking your Grey Maiden approach.

1) Be careful with the timeline. The Grey Maidens aren't getting formed before Eodred dies. Also, Queen Ileosa's power (and with that her ambition) are still developing. All this means is that it isn't likely she begins forming the Grey Maidens immediately upon gaining the throne. Besides, there are bigger concerns to occupy her initially, like reining in the great families and turning Korvosa's giant bureaucracy to her will.

2) Be careful with Ileosa's reputation. Part of the fun this AP provides is being able to sell Ileosa as the good person in a tough situation all the way until they determine the true nature of blood veil. If you tie anything to her being bad early, your players lose that fun reveal. The first way to get around this that comes to mind is to set up some rumors that imply Rolth is behind it, then when they ransack one of Rolth's warrens, they will start to think the BBEG might be the necromancer. Sort of deflecting blame from the queen. Honestly, if I ever get the chance to run this a third time, I will play up Rolth even more than I did the second time. He has been a lot of fun for me.

As long as you keep these things in mind, you will do just fine.

Because I'm half drunk and your post is making me nostalgic, I'll give a quick share of my Grey Maiden take. It's a bit different, and by no means better, but maybe you can take some ideas from it. Keep in mind that I played Ileosa as the good guy (er, girl/demon/dragon) to the hilt for as long as possible.

My approach to Grey Maidens was to foreshadow them as a good thing, or at least not a bad thing. I did this a few ways:

1) Have the barmaid they were flirting with all the way through book 1 proudly tell them that she was getting out of that tavern and joining the new queensguard. This paints it as a path out of the lower class.

2) Someone talking about their cousin joining up, being proud of the status they think they'll have and the great paycheck--three ties what he makes as a Korvosan Guard! This paints it as a high paying, enviable position.

3) I had Kressida bemoaning that her best and brightest women were leaving her for Ileosa's personal guard at a time when she needs all the help she can get, but that she doesn't blame them considering the pay and equipment bump. Same as before, and it reinforces why she is working with the party in the first place.

4) Have the weaponsmith tell them it will be a little longer before they can fill any orders because they have a rich contract from the Queen herself! A good thing, too, since things got so bad with the riots he was afraid he might have to close. Economic stimulus? An armorsmith could even show off a completed suit of armor to them.

Enough stuff like that makes it seem like a good deal. The reason I did it, though, was to make killing Grey Maidens a little more personal. It never stopped any of my players from doing it, of course, but they offered surrender a lot more than in any other campaign I've run and they did feel kind of bad about it. It also ratchets up the tension when they return to the city in book 6 and then hear about how it became conscription. Then they meet parents sobbing because their daughter was "drafted." Keeps the hate for Ileosa strong, and makes killing minions a little more interesting. Finally, it helps sell Sabina's scheme to free a bunch of Grey Maiden rejects in book 6 (which is done off screen, but totally worth writing up for the PCs to do).

Anyway, I hope that inspires!

Knick, bane of your mouse wheel

Well, as written? There isn't a ton of good options. Minus book 4, every major end-of-book-battle happens in a place where it is a little tough to justify/accommodate a large mount.

There are certainly opportunities in the streets of Korvosa, book 4 has plenty of open space, and you could argue that a person on horseback could ride around Castle Korvosa pretty easily.

Basically you are going to have to alter or invent some encounters to help this character shine if they go with a heavy focus on mounted combat.

In my opinion, if the paladin learns that the Queen is evil, the oath is pretty much null and void. There is no way a paladin will commit an evil act just because they swore an oath to an evil person under false pretenses (misdirection). Breaking oaths is still bad, and so some minor penance should probably be required, but I wouldn't be too hard on the character.

You've got questions? I've got answers! No guarantee on the quality of the answers...

1) No big deal. Instead of a cheating wife, he has a black mark on one of the great families (literally) of Korvosa. He can instead bemoan the shame of it all and wonder aloud what their parents would have thought if they were alive to see it (probably roaring in their grave).

2) This is probably easier with the brother/sister angle. Glorio can complain to the party that he no longer appears to have any control over his wayward sibling. She has become very willful and is busy off spending the family fortune on who-knows-what? Glorio doesn't even know if she is in the city half the time. He would, of course, be more than happy to arrange a meeting, but he doesn't think Melyia will be so agreeable. Hard to predict since her last trip to Vudra, that one.

3) Yeah, I wish that had come up either time I ran it. There is a wealth of opportunities there, and the party can end up doing some ambiguous things as they are slowly caught up in Glorio's web. All to save Korvosa from the evil queen! Perhaps switch some of the quests from Kroft in book 2 over to quests from Glorio. Just make sure he gets a little more than good will out of it.

Hope that inspires!

So, they managed to chase down Verik and find out about Melyia Arkona's involvement? These folks are diligent. You are blessed to have this group (and maybe cursed as well).

I think it would be best if they did not get an opportunity to meet Melyia and talk about the dagger at this time. It is, however, an amazing opportunity to introduce Glorio Arkona and plant the seeds of him becoming a prisoner in his own home (well, lying about it anyway). Assuming, of course, that you were taking that approach in book 3.

Let's consider a few things (like most of my work, it is long):

1) The party knows that the dagger was a fiendish spy given to Verik by Melyia (or at least that is what the traitor guardsman is saying).

2) Glorio Arkona is the kingpin of the Korvosan underworld and undoubtedly knows all about Kroft's new "not-exactly-lawful" assistants (if I recall correctly about how Eel's End sank, then I am certain Glorio paid attention).

3) Glorio Arkona does NOT like Ileosa. Not one bit. He isn't in a position to do anything about that yet, but one has to believe that he is keeping his eye open for opportunities. For example, he has enough underworld contacts to know that Salvator is tapping some of them for unusual favors that might involve a certain VIP...

4) In Balor's mind, having Kroft's vigilante team come to his house with accusations of his sister having possessed a Raktavarna is clear evidence of her incompetence and the risk she poses to his style of living in Korvosa. Clearly, the battle for supremacy of the family will have to be resolved sooner than later. If anything, the PCs could be the catalyst for the extreme level of family infighting that they later encounter in book 3 by delivering this news. I mean, if the party did any serious research on what a Raktavarna is (beyond what Vimanda-as-dean told them) they might discover it is itself a rakshasa and then it is only a short dotted line to Melyia is a fiend and so must be Glorio.

5) It is clear that the PCs must be somewhat capable to have Kroft forgiving arson and tracing the dagger back to Melyia. This means they might be useful in the future, and Glorio is always looking for useful people. There are also a few things they could have done that makes Glorio think they are worth considering as the right pawns for use against the queen. Giving Trinia to Kroft instead of the Queen or interfering at the execution, for example.

Got it? Good. Let's continue.

There should be NO WAY that Glorio owns up to knowing ANYTHING about raktavarnas. The less they are thinking about the dagger and him in the same thoughts the better. If there has to be a fall guy, it certainly won't be Bahor.

Consider this: the party is about to tell Glorio, one of the most respected and imposing men in all of Korvosa, that his wife had a thing going on with a traitor guardsman (only a sergeant!?) and gave him some sort of evilmagicknifespything. Now, on the inside all he can think is "how stupid is my sister?" On the outside, however, the rakshasa guile goes to work.

This is a cause to show some sincere (looking) emotion to the party. He should appear to be in a state of shock and disbelief. The party will likely forget all about the implication of infidelity while they are pursuing the dagger, so the reaction ought to compel at least a little polite backing off of the topic for a moment. If the party waits it out for a minute or so, he will eventually start talking as if they aren't even there. Almost just thinking aloud (or, you know, pointing any implication of guilt away from himself). Remarking about how odd she has seemed since her last trip to Vudra, just before coming back around to talking about how it doesn't make any sense at all--Verik is a measly sergeant! He then comes back to his senses (rather, finishes his exposition) and apologizes to the PCs for his break of etiquette. Surely they could understand how this comes as a shock to him? Maybe it wasn't even her, but an impostor using the Arkona name to manipulate Verik? Either way, he should thank the PCs kindly and explain that he will have a serious conversation with his wife. If they are ever in Old Korvosa and need a favor, they should feel free to come to him. This way Bahor can keep abreast of their shenanigans. If they try to cash in the favor immediately, have Glorio seem slightly offended that they would ask him in his current state, and that they should come back another day.

All of this sets up book 3 rather nicely, and the group is even less likely to try running in guns-a-blazing if they have had peaceable discussions with Glorio in the past. It also sets up the "Melyia has made me a prisoner in my own home" approach very well. And since they will never seem to be able to catch Melyia at a good time, they will be more likely to believe that she is spending all of her time renovating the dungeons when Glorio tells them as much later in the AP.

The only real risk you run is that it doesn't definitively solve the dagger mystery. Glorio instead attempts to obfuscate it. Future attempts to go after Glorio about the dagger should start being received as offensive and maybe break some of the good will. The group may not be satisfied. Hopefully a relationship with one of the most powerful and important nobles of Korvosa is suitable replacement.

The reward for this encounter is that the party might start using Glorio as a resource, and Glorio will likely use them back. He would be happy to help out in many situations, I'm sure, as long as the party kept it between them and didn't include Kroft (and if it served his interests in the city, whether that be his criminal underworld, political machinations, or upsetting the Queen).

My apologies to your mouse wheel. Hope that inspires!

I officially introduced the Grey Maidens in Seven Days just as the AP suggests. I did, however, let the PCs know Ileosa was assembling a Queensguard of sorts through some quick and dirty NPC interactions. I began dropping these stories right around Eel's End in my timeline. Figured I would give Ileosa a few days on the throne dealing with the Korvosan bureaucracy before she started up her personal army.

The examples I remember off the top of my head:

-->The barmaid they spent some time with while eliminating Lamm's operation proudly telling them it was her last night and that she was joining the Grey Maidens.

-->I had a weaponsmith let them know that he was backed up with work from the Queen and that any orders would be a little while. I would have gone for an armorer and given the party a sneak peek at the uniform, but both times I ran this I didn't have anyone looking for plate mail (Inquisitor / Ranger / Rogue / Sorcerer followed by Gunslinger / Monk / Priest / Rogue).

-->My second party had two characters from bridgefront, including the priest who took care of the destitute who could never afford a Cleric of Abadar. This was a golden opportunity for women to start enlisting as a way out of poverty.

-->Just as Olondir suggests, I had Kroft lament that so many of her women guards were taking the opportunity to join Ileosa's new elite bodyguard, but she didn't really blame them for taking the "better" job (hindsight is 20/20).

-->Proud parents seeing their daughter off along with concerned parents who don't want their child in the military.

Anyway, I absolutely went with the positive approach early. Ileosa could start out with conscription and press gangs, but why? Who wouldn't leave the drudgery of the guard to be an elite, well-equipped soldier with more prestige? At this time, there hasn't been a chance to notice that nobody comes back from training whether they make it or not, and families can't know that they will never speak to their daughters again. Obviously, this eventually becomes apparent and new tactics are utilized to fill the Queen's ranks. Then you have mothers crying because their daughter was conscripted and stories of women drawn and quartered for resisting "enrollment." Clearly, they must have been traitors.

All of this made fighting the Grey Maidens much more interesting, as the characters knew they were fighting innocent , brainwashed citizens of the city. I suppose it didn't stop them from killing any in the path of the greater good, but if there was an opportunity to avoid it they took it (hard to do with fight-to-the-death zealots). They also worked hard to get the majority of the Grey Maidens pardoned in the aftermath.

Tels' approach is certainly valid, but I feel that it puts Ileosa into BBEG a little too early. Twice now I've had parties not suspect a thing before the Trina execution, and even then they weren't completely against her until they learn about Devaulus. I did try to pawn that off as Devaulus making business for himself, but it was weak and the party knew it. By that point though, the group is heading into Escape and need to be anti-Ileosa in order to motivate the trouble they go through to save Neolandus.

Hope that inspires!

The condition cards are FANTASTIC, especially for new and/or forgetful players (the effects are all on the inside of the GM screen, but handing a player a card has worked better for me than explaining all of the time). They also have fun goblin artwork! You can also throw a die on the card as a "countdown" to more easily keep track of how long that condition is affecting you/them. This is hands down one of the best purchases I have made.

I have used the chase cards several times and they are always a hit at the table. You have to plan ahead for them usually, since not every adventure will have a chase involved, but it is worth it. Lots of fun here.

I personally love face cards when I'm running a game, especially since I'm not very good at voices. In those scenarios where you have more than one NPC interacting with the party, these cards can help the players determine who is saying what. Admittedly, my main group doesn't like them nearly as much as I do, but I think they would miss them if I didn't use them.

I personally don't see a lot of value in item cards. I suppose I have never used them, but I just don't see it being a big boost to the game. Not that I'm against the idea, mind you. My RPG budget is blessedly pretty high, but, even so, I can't quite justify the purchase.

Have you checked out Wayfinder #7? It is free on this website and has a couple ideas that might help you out.

They also have a great situation in Korvosa, which they most certainly want to maintain. If the "Arkonas" had to go back to Vudra, they would be very low on the totem pole. If they went to some other city, they would be starting over completely. Plenty of intelligent people have fought against the odds and died to protect what was theirs.

The best case scenario after an escape from the PCs is that they can somehow help Ileosa defame them. Since the PCs are assumed to flee the city directly from Palace Arkona, they don't have a lot of time to get the family secret out. If Balor and Vimanda can aid in assassinating the PCs' characters they might be able to survive the PCs attempting to out them upon the party's return to the city. If anything, the Arkona family is forced into siding with Ileosa until the PCs are out of the picture, which could possibly have ramifications on the rebellion in CoF. Ultimately, they hate the Queen just as much as the PCs, so this is not desirable. Add this all together and you can begin to see why the Arkonas might push all of their chips in now and fight to the death.

All of that is just one GM's opinion, of course. Hope it inspires!

Sounds like Wizard might not be the class for you, and it especially sounds like a control wizard is not for you. As for being the wrong character for the group you are in? I don't see how the group has anything to do with it. Wizards have limited resources, and that is especially true at lower levels. You are also playing an Illusionist, which takes a sideways approach to a lot of opponents/obstacles. Seems to me that you would be happier with a more direct approach. Also, the things you point out about the character concept that you really like seem to be entirely based upon alignment, and have nothing to do with being an Illusionist. I see no reason why you can't play the same character concept as almost any other class.

My suggestion: stop playing a Wizard. I think if you like the idea of being a caster, supporting the group, and having a lot of things to do, I'd recommend asking your GM to let you reroll as a Witch. You can probably keep the same stat line and familiar, too. At least when you don't feel like casting spells you can lay down hexes and still feel like a caster instead of a pitiful archer (and you are still a pitiful archer if that floats your boat). Keep in mind, however, that you are still watching the GM roll dice to see if your actions resolve or not.

If you want to try keeping the Illusionist and making it work you could try multi-classing Rogue and maybe work towards Arcane Trickster.

Otherwise, you might just want to play a martial character. At least then you get to roll your own fate.

Bhaene wrote:

I have a first edition bard that was loads of fun to play.

Fighter 8 (Ambidextrous - Two Weapon - plate wearing intimidator)
Thief 6/Thief Acrobat 3 (Total Thief levels 9) More an acrobat, performer than an actual burglar, or cutpurse)
Bard 15 Dervish dancer in combat, and a storyteller, musician-singer out of combat. Adept with healing.

Can such a character be converted to Pathfinder and still feel the same?

So is that a singular level 32 multiclassed bard?

Yes. It would have to be.

Once upon a time you couldn't just make a Bard, it was kind of like today's Prestige Classes. And if this character was a human, I commend you for mucking through the dual-class insanity while you leveled from Fighter 8 to Thief 8, since that was absolutely crippling. Have to assume you were a demi-human (or non-human for you young folk).

As for converting that character to PFRPG, there are sacrifices that must be made. You could potentially multi-class as a Fighter/Bard, (although that has little to no synergy) and invest some feats into arcane armor training so you have a chance of casting bard spells in full-plate. There should be little issue slanting the Bard towards an acrobatic character, making Rogue levels pretty irrelevant... which I suppose is how they usually are on any character. By level 32 I'm sure that character would be just as crazy.

As for anything similar in the lower levels? Well, you know what you had to play through just to get to Bard in 1e, so I imagine you're up to being sub-optimal for the early going.

Ohhhh.

Yeah that isn't going to happen. Best you can do for that is a 5ft. step which doesn't provoke anyway. Would be nice for my Imp Stalwart IR Dragon Totem Barb though...

Why can't you "attack" an empty square? If you think there is an invisible opponent in that square you can do this, so why not even when you are pretty sure there isn't an invisible foe? Probably a little dumb from a roleplaying perspective, but you can play it off as dashing swordplay or some such.

Chapter 1 would wrap up just fine so long as you aren't introducing the plague with that Death's Head Coffer.

There could be issues in Chapter 2, however. I don't know how the players perceive Ileosa at the moment, but mine had no reason to suspect a thing as horrible as launching a plague to kill off a large portion of her subjects. The Trinia episode could certainly sour them on the Queen, but It shouldn't be enough to think she is spreading the plague in her own city. With that said, Devaulus doesn't need to be presented in a suspicious way. Even if the Physicians in their masks are kind of creepy. Remember that Devaulus has this description:

A calm man with a polite demeanor and deeply analytical mind, Dr. Davaulus greets the PCs warmly and welcomes their questions, saying that he hopes to ease the concerns of as many of Korvosa’s people as possible in this trying time.

and:

Dr. Reiner Davaulus heads Korvosa’s efforts to combat the blood veil plague preying upon the city. A Chelaxian in his mid-40s, the doctor is deliberate in his speech and conducts himself like a concerned father, seeming to take genuine interest in assuaging the concerns and maladies of those around him. He claims to have served Queen Ileosa’s family in Egorian, the capital of Cheliax, for many years. When she contacted him several days ago, begging for his assistance on her city’s behalf, he couldn’t refuse. After accepting her gracious offer of magical transport to Korvosa, he’s spent his time assembling a group of the city’s most talented healers to help stem the tide of the spreading plague.

and, my favorite:

Dr. Davaulus does not lie when he doesn’t have to

Doesn't seem bad enough to warrant immediate suspicion, so until they search the Direption there shouldn't be any reason to think the doctor is anything more than what he claims. You should be selling Devaulus as the good doctor, and the Grey Maidens as necessary evils for dangerous times. I mean, even if the party doesn't think much of Ileosa, they certainly can't think that she wants to kill off her tax-paying subjects at this point. So Rolth should not be required to keep suspicion off of Devaulus. Use Kroft to back up this opinion, also. The party probably trusts her, and she believes it at this time so it is all "truthful." you can let her be disturbed at the authority given to the Grey Maidens, but also point out that times are incredibly bad, and the Queen is just doing what she thinks is best for the safety of the city. Maybe even point out that while the Maidens' methods aren't ideal, they have done a pretty good job of quelling the riots.

So the two questions are:
1) Do you want your party hell-bent on hunting down Rolth, who is in a secret temple the party won't find until they have given up on the plague being caused by Rolth?
2) Do you want your party to know immediately that the plague was purposefully inflicted upon the city, or would you rather that they think it could be natural for awhile?

It does add some flavor to the Carowyn Manor episode, and if you want to lead the party on a merry chase I say go for it. If the party knows that the plague is absolutely an attack on Korvosa, most likely by the necromancer Rolth, how might they behave during the adventure? Only you know your group well enough to try guessing this answer, and then only you can decide if that is what you want for your campaign.

Hope that helps!

Tengu Transmuter who enhances self with spells and fights people in melee with a greatsword or elven curved blade... definitely not optimized, but I've been meaning to try one some day.

I expanded Gaedren's operation significantly the second time around, and it went much better. I added some shiver labs and drug dealers into the mix. Decided that Gaedren didn't really trust anyone so I made up some sons to run those operations. The battle with the alchemists in a shiver lab with nothing but a thin sheet of glass separating the fight from thousands of dream spiders was great... although after that the fishery was a little bit of a letdown.

More importantly, I took the time between busting the various cells of Gaedren's operation to build up Korvosa and establish some friendly NPCs that I could mine later for storytelling purposes.

--Killed off some in the plague, or killed off family members of known NPCs.
--Had one badly injured in riots.
--Had a few saved from the plague because the players came up with the cure.
--Had one proudly sign up for the Grey Maidens at the beginning of book 2.
--Had one bemoan that her daughter had been taken away to become a Grey Maiden at the beginning of book 6.
--Etc. etc. etc.

I just sort of set them up to help the PCs early and grant them boons that would assist in taking down Gaedren, and then told the story of Korvosa going to hell through their accounts.

Absolute best recommendation I can make to anyone starting this AP.