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I had a check from a player this week. They were playing a barbarian fighting a Swarm. They didn't use their main two handed weapon as they thought it would not be effective against swarms of little creatures. I had to inform him it would work fine. In fact the bigger weapon is better as it powers through the resistance. Then he of course critted and did 60 damage destroying the Swarm.
But he was right. It should have been ineffective. Swarms are just done wrong. They should have a damage cap, not a resistance.
What do other people think?


What is the nearest equivalent of a ring of wizardy for occult/primal/divine casters.
I know we have staves, wands and for some grimoires. But are there any with open slots like the ring of wizardy?

I'm not aware of any but one of my players asked so I'd thought I'd check.


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I am getting upset with the remastered stun rules. It is all in one handy page 446 of the remastered rules.
The box in the top left in the second paragraph says
Other conditions say you can't act... Unlike slowed and stunned...
In the colum right next to it is the condition Stunned. It says
Stunned. You've become senseless. You can't act.

Please Paizo stop writing directly contradictory statements.

Please remember that Stuned has two different implementations. Stunned with a number of actions lost, and Stunned with a time duration.

Note that this is different to the problems cleared up in the errata with the 4th printing of the CRB
Page 460, 462, and 469: The text on Gaining and Losing actions on page 462 and for the last step of starting your turn on page 469 indicated that if you had a condition that said “you can’t act,” you wouldn’t regain any actions on your turn, rather than merely being unable to use them. This conflicted with the sidebar on page 622, which was correct. Conditions and other effects that cause you to change the number of actions you regain (such as quickened, slowed, or stunned) say so.


Some changes I noted to the general damage rules in the remaster. Aside from the well known Void, Vitality and Spirit changes. I picked up a couple of things. Only the first is significant:

1) Bleed Damage ends when you are healed to your full hit points.

2) You don't add a attribute modifier with spells and bombs. Unless noted. Which seems redundant.

3) They put in a rule about counting damage dice. No change.

Unfortunately Extra and Additional Damage are still not clear at all. Nor are the terms instance of damage or pool of damage that they use.


The wording has changed. In the remaster it now says:
Unlike with other spell slots you can't use 10th level slots with abilities that give you more spell slots or that let you cast spells without spending spell slots
Which means that taking another 10th level slots via a level 20 feat eg Archwizards's Might, no longer undoes this rule.

I've been looking back over the rules for this. There were plenty of people saying that the wizard had some exceptions to this. They clearly don't.
Arcane Bond, Spell Blending, Arcane School all clearly don't work. It doesn't matter if the wording says bonus or extra it is stopped. Abilities like the Sorcerers Primal Evolution doesn't work here.

AFAICT the exceptions are Focus Spells and Cantrips which heighten based on your level.
There are some wierd things like a 20th level Druid with the Plant Shape feat having a 10th rank effect if he has wild shape, but a 9th rank effect if he does not.

The Divine Font would be stopped from this by the rules text, but they still have that asterisk against the 10th level slot in their spell chart. Which to my mind counts as a specific exception.

It still leaves open the general question of what happens if you have an ability which gives you an extra top level slot when you have level 10 slots. In general the right outcome would seem to be that you get a 9th level slot as you can't consider your 10th level spells for this purpose. Though I lack confidence this is expressed well everywhere.


Finally. Just home from work, and my Player Core Book has arrived.

I've had it ordered though a 3rd party retailer for ages.

A month later than everyone else. Serves me right for living in Australia.


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This is the remaster change I am most excited about. Ghost Sound becomes Figment. It can be visual. Now with the errata it gets Subtle.

This means by default the casting is not noticed. There are going to be all sorts of shenanigans with this. At last a caster can easily distract and misdirect. It final works how it was always intended but in a rules clear way.


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Well I'm pleasantly surprised by the remastered Rogue.

For the optimizers out there Rogue build used to be totally dominated by building around the feat Opportune Backstab. Which allowed you a no MAP Strike triggered when an allies Strike hit. I was half expected this to be slightly nerfed. But no Paizo doubled down by providing another competing reaction.

Nimble Strike (Feat 10) When you use your Nimble Dodge Reaction, you can make a melee Strike against the triggering creature.
Given that Nimble doge triggers on an attack or with Nimble Roll a Reflex save this is going to happen a lot.

So there is now no longer one optimised path for the Rogue. We have two and all the hydrids in between.


The main question I have with the Animist is the flavour. What sort of character is it based on? What myths and stories should I be looking at for inspiration? At the moment I am a blank.


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The comment has been made that casters can do everything:
Since a wizard very much can have a spell for every situation that targets every possible defense, the game has to assume they do

I don't want to rehash that discussion in another thread. But I would like to pose the question what is the most flexible martial you can build?


This thread from reddit on Animist seems like a better Wildshaper than Wild Order Druid
Just making sure it is noticed and considered in the playtest.

No I'm not the original poster. If it had been me I'd have banged the drum about being very clear on how handwraps with a few different runes affect wild shape too.


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The Elemental Barbarian has a real problem.
All the impulses get the Rage trait.

Which means all impulses can't be used outside of combat, and they end when rage ends. This is a big problem for utility impulses.


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Question.
The way I read these is that Unburdened Iron still works with Tenacious Stance. Is that how other people see it?

Stalwart Defender Dedication

Tenacious Stance [one-action] (stance) Requirements You are wearing armor; Effect You steady yourself, as tough and immutable as stone. You gain a number of temporary Hit Points equal to half your level (minimum 1) and a +2 circumstance bonus to DCs against being Shoved and Tripped. However, you no longer negate your armor check penalty or Speed penalty for having a high Strength while in this stance.

Unburdened Iron

any time you're taking a penalty to your Speed from some other reason (such as from the encumbered condition or from a spell), deduct 5 feet from the penalty. For example, the encumbered condition normally gives a –10-foot penalty to Speed, but it gives you only a –5-foot penalty. If your Speed is taking multiple penalties, pick only one penalty to reduce.


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I've been really impressed with the new spells in Rage of Elements. It is 95% arcane and primal. These are my highlights:

Best Spells

Rust Cloud good damage in a burst (1/2 a point under fireball) but conceals your targets. Which should be a disadvantage. But not much, as you can prepare by taking Blindfight or Goz Masks so you don’t take the concealment penalty. But where it is really strong is the damage area continues for a minute and triggers on start of turn so your enemies can’t avoid it if you push them back in. You do have a wrestler on your team don't you?

Personal Ocean your own personal swimming pool. A nice defensive buff. Especially good if for some reason you have a high swim speed. Here are the rules for Aquatic combat. A lot of enemies are going to be -2 to hit you. Personally I want to wild shape into a sea serpent then zoom around raking enemies with this .

Cave Fangs fireball piercing damage plus difficult terrain that lasts for a minute.

Field of Razors damaging terrain. Yes I do like the forced movement game

Shock to the System brings someone back from the dead who just died. They are hasted. Finally a revivify type spell.
Heatvision a new PRECISE sense.

Cantrips

There are some rivals for Electric Arc: an area of effect damage cantrip with Timber, a two target damage cantrip Slashing Gust. People are probably going to prefer Electric Arc still but these cantrips are getting closer.

Plus a damage cantrips for Divine casters with Needle Darts. Everyone else gets it too.

A shield cantrip for primal casters - Glass Shield

Elemental Counter enables counterspelling an elemental spell with another spell slot. Which leads on to -

Reactions

So many good reaction spells. Obviously for when you have few encounters in a day and you probably wouldn't do them out of your top slots but these really get the effects out fast.

Cloud Dragon's Cloak missed me.
Wooden Double negate most of a critical hit.
Brine Dragon Bile extra damage to an allies attack.
Blastback fall into a Blazing Dive. Definitely some manoeuvres and special entry techniques you could do with this.
Propulsive Breeze extra movement.
Interposing Earth create a shield that lasts a bit.
Zephyr Slip can't touch this.

Long Running Buffs

Thermal Remedy temporary hit points for the party.
Entwined Roots party damage resistance.

More Debuffs for Primal Casters to use

Coral Scourge clumsy and slow.

Frost Pillar save or be restrained. Very useful. Certain types of creatures will need an ally to get themselves out. For others it will waste a round or two.
Grasp of the Deep ranged grapple with modest damage. Just stay there thanks.
Grasping Earth ranged area grapple.
Pressure Zone long range, good area, short term clumsy debuff. Great if you have a horde coming at you.

Immunities

These have always been very restricted so far. but now you can get quite a range

Ferrous Form a lot of immunities like you were a construct, including healing unfortunately. None the less you should be able to exploit this. This is not a battle form, you can still cast, plus you get physical resistance as well.

Glass Form is just weird you'll have to check it out. Useful if you want to be permanently concealed so you can hide even in plain sight, or if you are being tracked by scent and very certain damage types but not others.

There is a lot more. I have updated my full Spell Guide. It is aimed at general adventuring with spontanteous not prepared casters. I am still yet to update some of my secondary comments. Feedback about spells is most welcome.


Conductive Weapon
You channel powerful electric current through the metal of a weapon, zapping anyone the item hits. The target becomes a +1 shock weapon. If any target of an attack with the weapon is wearing metal armor or is primarily made of metal, the electricity damage die from the shock rune is 1d12.

What happens if you cast it on a +1 striking weapon - I assume it just adds the Shock on. But what if the weapon has a property rune does it stack or not?


This ancestry feat Conductor's Redirection
.

You conduct the damage through your body, taking damage as normal (if applicable) and redirecting it at one target within 10 feet that you can see. The creature must make a Fortitude save using your class DC or spell DC, whichever is higher. On a failure, they take the electrical damage; on a success, they take half damage.

Questions:
1) Does the Talos character take the damage?
2) Is the damage redirected the damage of the original spell or the damage the Talos character took?

The problem I have is the word redirect. The object of the sentence is the damage.


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Just cross posting from The Magic Sword for those that aren't on reddit. Full details on the primal previews
The Kineticist looks cool. I like the page of powers they show.

Large Minotaurs and Centaurs.

But mostly the Spellsong Lyrebird. Love the concept and it is based on a local bird.


Maybe.

A Bards best ability perhaps the best ability in the mid game, is Dirge of Doom.

Area effect 30ft emanation, no save, no timing out, frightened 1 on all enemies.

Why is it so good?
* Frightened 1 is -1 to all enemies attacks and -1 to all their defences. It is basically like giving everyone +2 to everything --- and people complain about fighters?
* In PF2 very few things are immune to fear. It is typically only Oozes and Mindless creatures. This is nice BTW as I am tired of large common categories of monsters being immune to illusions, or fire or fear like previous editions.
* It works with Lingering Composition so on a moderate roll plus a focus point it only cost 1 action and will last for 3 or 4 rounds.

Other Bard focus cantrips give a benefit of 1 not 2. You can Harmonise them to get a second cantrip for a net plus 2 but then you are spending 2 actions per turn. You can't do this and Linger them because of the metamagic and action restrictions. Yeah I think I'll just spend one action once thanks.

Likewise Inspire Heroics costs a focus point to get a larger bonus, but you can't also linger that.

Net result the Action Economy wins and Dirge of Doom is the best Bard cantrip in most common situations.

Then there is the knock on effect. Dread Striker which becomes worth multiclassing to get, not just for the Rogue.

Paizo should have a look at this situation and see if this is what they intended. but Dirge of Doom is so strong it is crowding out other Bard options.


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What do people thing about these as items to help alchemists?

These are alchemical laboratory items that can be repurposed as weapons by many a budding alchemist. These items are advanced weapons but can not have weapon runes etched on them. Alchemists treat these weapons as simple weapons, and may use their crafting skill modifiers instead of their ranged weapon attack modifiers with these weapons. These weapons cannot be used beyond their base maximimum range.

Greek Fire Dispenser
Bulk L; Hands 1; Range 20 ft.; Reload 0
Category Advanced
Group Alchemical (on a critical hit the target is blinded until they spend an action wiping their face).
Item 1. Price 5gp; Damage 1d8 fire damage
Item 3. Price 15gp; Damage 2d8 fire damage
Item 11. Price 80gp; Damage 3d8 fire damage
Item 17. Price 1625gp; Damage 4d8 fire damage

Acid Squeegee Bottle
Bulk L; Hands 1; Range 20 ft.; Reload 0
Category Advanced
Group Alchemical (on a critical hit the target is blinded until they spend an action wiping their face).
Item 1. Price 5gp; Damage 1d6 acid damage, and 1 point of splash damage to every creature in a line between the alchemist and the target.
Item 3. Price 15gp; Damage 2d6 acid damage, and 2 points of splash damage …
Item 11. Price 80gp; Damage 3d6 acid damage, and 3 points of splash damage …
Item 17. Price 1625gp; Damage 4d6 acid damage, and 4 points of splash damage …


My conception of the Bard as a caster is not that of studious reseracher but that of a widely learned artist who has picked up tricks and bit and pieces from everywhere on his travels. Every bit of his knowedge and magic has a story behind it. Where he picked it up from who and how they met.

You are a PF2 Bard with some changes.

You gain abilities normally however you have Hit Point and Spell slots like a Psychic. All your spells are adapted into music. Your Muse is the Polymath. Modify the Esoteric Polymath feat. Your Spell Repertoire is recorded in a book of spells (though you refer to them as songs) These spells can be of any tradition of magic and don’t all have to be the same tradition but they must have a verbal component. During your daily preparations, choose any one spell from your book of spells. If it isn't in your repertoire, treat it as though it were until your next daily preparations. If you have too many spells in your repertoire then choose which ones to forget. You can expand your collection of spells by recording it in your book.

From level 2 you gain skill feats and skills at the same rate as a Rogue.

I'm sure someone will be able to break this. But this is the other character that is a bard to me.


This is a different martial bard in the tradition of the norse skald. This is not the PF2 skald, but a historian bard and poet typically in the service of a noble of a warrior culture.

Start with a PF2 Bard. Remove all the regular cantrips and spell slots that a Bard gets. You retain access to the composition cantrips and composition spells as per a normal Bard. You can choose the tradition of this magic. You are Trained in it and know 2 cantrips of that tradition. A skald knows their compositions so well that they do not require concentration. Hint.

You have Hit points as per a Ranger
Replace the Initial Proficiencies for Saving Throws, Attack and Defences with the Rangers. As your character goes up levels you gain the increases to these abilities as if you were a Ranger. That is:
* Iron Will
* Ranger Skald Weapon Expertise except that you gain access to the critical specialization effects of all simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks while singing or while under the effect of a composition spell.
* Evasion
* Weapon Specialization
* Ranger Skald Expertise
* Juggernaut
* Medium Armor Expertise
* Weapon Mastery
* Greater Weapon Specialization
* Improved Evasion
* Second Skin

Your Muse is the Warrior Muse but you gain no other benefits from it. You gain Bard feats and Skill and General feats as normal for a bard. Plus
* Expert Spellcaster at level 7
* Vigilant Senses at level 11
* Master Spellcaster at level 19 (yes it is late)

You are forbidden to take the Bard Multiclass Archetype like other Bards are. But you can gain some Bard spellcasting ability by taking these feats as if you had taken the Bard Dedication feat. There is no skill requirement and the tradition of this magic is whatever you chose before
* Basic Bard Spellcasting at level 4
* Occult Breadth at level 8
* Expert Bard Spellcasting at level 8
* Master Bard Spellcasting at level 18

In summary Bard compositions on a generic martial chassis.


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Here is the link
Holy and Unholy are going to be damage relevant traits not damage types

Focus point feats will be clarified to ensure they all give a focus point.

Some changes to shields.

Lots of general clean up is happening but he doesn't give much in terms of specifics.
I hope a number of the list of issues I maintain are going to get cleaned up.


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So what changes do people want to see for the Core 1 classes?

These are: bard, cleric, druid, fighter, ranger, rogue, witch, and wizard. But lets set aside witch as it has several threads already. We know about weapon proficiency changes to the rogue and wizard, alignment swap out for the cleric.
Is there anything else people want besides more feats and options?

Bard. Is in a good state. It really looks like someone slipped the designer a few extra dollars to make sure it got the best deal. My only real gripe is the Warrior muse could do with a little something extra.

Cleric. I like where it is at and think many people bag the War Priest too much. Obviously there will be alignment changes.

Druid. In pretty good state. Just clarify the battle form rules and do something with high level animal companions - they seem too weak.

Fighter. No problems. Plenty of people like the feats that I don't like and it has mulitple ways to play.

Ranger. The OutWit ranger gets ignored too much by the community.

Rogue. I am fairly happy with the Rogue. Maybe more love for ranged options. Eldritch Trickster is not very popular.

Witch. Discussed elsewhere

Wizard. Is fine. Many people find the feats a bit flat. Please reword Staff Nexus for clarity - some people read the charging rules in a way that makes their staff use terrible.

What changes do people think are important, because I don't have a lot?


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While you doing some tidying, I thought it would be helpful to list some of the major things that aren't clear in the rules.

I don't like having to look up 3 different rules sections and the glossary to understand the rules. Long lists with multiple conjunctions and commas might save page count but it confuses people.

The damage rules. Please be clear about what and instance of damage is. Consider a critical strike from a flaming sword. There is slashing damage, additional fire damage, and persistent fire damage. How does that interact with a Champions reaction that does resist all? Is it one two or three instances? Is a shield block with item hardness different? There are similar concerns with multiple weaknesses.

Battle Forms and wild shape. Please reword it all. Many peope are confused about how to calculate the Druids unarmed attack modifier. There were long arguments about whether or not item bonus was included. Can the Druid choose to use Dexterity or Strength? How does Additional Damage interact with the Battle Forms damage numbers. Many people do mistakenly add the wild shape +2 status bonus to attack all the time.

You recently created the Shapespeak mask to allow a wild shaped Animal to speak. But it misses the fact that other Battle forms like Avatars, Righteous Might, and Dragons aren't animals and traditionally do speak. This is very similar to the problem with all the familiar rules being written for animals - but we have rock, plant and undead familiars now.

Minions. You clarified quickened and slowed recently but there are a stack of conditions that are affected by the start and the end of the turn. Can you be clear about how these are resolved. I just let the player choose and do that in the minions controllers turn.

10th level spells. Can you delete the rule please its confusing and is not important. Or tell me what a 19th level Cleric has for a Divine Font: none, 9th rank, 10th rank? Because I think the rules say none and that doesn't seem fair. Loving your nomenclature change already.

Divine source and Deity rules make sense as is for Clerics and Champions, but not for the classes that don't have to worship the source of their magic ie Oracles, Divine Sorcerers or Divine Witches. While you are redoing alignment mechanics can you make it clear what applies if an Oracle who worships a holy deity but gets their magic from an unholy deity.

Recall Knowledge. Please make it clear how to handle Unique creatures and just reword it so half the community doesn't write off the ability as useless.

Hostile actions. Is not clear as the term Indirect is open ended. Please can we be sure how Sanctuary, Charm, and Calm Emotions work.

Traits: So many of these are not cleanly overwritten and they should be. Please fix up.
a) Poppets and the Construct trait. I don't want to see Poppets claiming they have immunity to bleed, or immunity to unconsciousness
b) Undead trait and Healing. It is just quite clear the whole positive and negative healing, but the Undead trait still has blanket immunity to healing. Seems like a clash. Please ensure that the Negative Healing rules have priority
c) Incorporeal mentions immunity to strength checks 4 times. Note that swinging an axe is a strength check. That was Ok till players got Incorporeal options.

Eidolons re-manifesting and persistent conditions?

I have more collected here but above are the major things.


I am working on a summoning build. I haven't tried this yet. It is just a mechancial concept at this stage. Thoughts?

Sorcerer Bloodline Phoenix

Starting ability scores:
STR 10 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 18

Background
Cultist, fascinated by fire but fleeing a goblin cult that wanted to purify everything with fire.

Ancestry Feats
Charhide Goblin
Burn it
Goblin Scuttle
Very Sneaky
Skittering Scuttle
Very Very Sneaky

General Feats
Armor Proficiency for a while then from level 10 Toughness
Fleet
Incredible Initiative
Canny Acumen
Feather Step

Skill Feats
Intimidating Glare
Battle Cry
Scare to Death
Bon Mot
Evangelize to debuff when I can’t demoralise anymore
Terrain Stalker underbrush
Foil Senses
Quiet Allies
Legendary Sneak

Skills
Intimidation, Diplomacy, Stealth, Nature, Occultism, Arcana, Religion
Ranking the first 3

Feats
2. Summoner Dedication for Psychopomp Eidolon
4. Primal Evolution for an extra top level summons
6. Basic Synergy for Meld into Eidolon so I can be Ostentatious whenever I want.
8. Crossblooded Evolution for another summon spell from another list. The best part is I can change which one every level if I want.
10. Bloodline Resistance a nice bit of extra defence that is always on.
12. Advanced Synergy for Ostentatious Arrival for bonus damage on every summon.
14. Advanced Synergy for Master Summoner for an extra top level summons
16. Effortless Concentration because actions are more important than spell slots
18. Greater Vital Evolution for an extra top level summons and one just below
20. Ruby Resurrection just because it is who we are

Note that this build has 3 extra top level spell slots, an extra slot one level down and we still have all our normal slots. Too bad for Spell Blending.

If you have Free Archetype then pick up Basic Summoner Spellcasting and a lot of summoner abilities.
Take the opportunity to get Bloodline Focus and Greater Crossblooded Evolution from the Sorcerer class.

Psychopomp Eidolon a Grim Reaper with black robes, a skull mask, a scythe, and flames
STR 12 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 12, CHA 10
The Eidolon might strike once or twice but its value is mostly dramatic and won’t stay out long. Out of combat it will assist with a few skill checks.

Equipment
Handwraps of Mighty Blows are useful as its runes will affect your Eidolon and you don’t have to waste time drawing it like you do any other weapon. Maybe at early levels you might use a sling occasionally.
Leather Armour then Bracers of Armor
Warding Statuette for Shield the level 7 one is good enough.
Bloodline Robe
Shadow Signet
A staff: Staff of Fire, Animal Staff or Staff of Healing are all good.
Bag of Holding
Insistent Door Knocker
Soaring Wings
Healer’s Gloves
Boots of Speed
Cat's Eye Elixir x 10
Elixir of Life

Spells listing Bloodline Spells first
Not quite right yet.
Cantrips : Detect Magic + Electric Arc, Ray of Frost, Guidance, Scatter Scree, Light
1st: Burning Hands + Lose the Path, Heal , Summon Animal, Gust of Wind
2nd: See Invisibility + Longstrider , Summon Fey, Obscuring Mist, Dispel Magic
3rd: Fireball + Wall of Thorns, Fear, Gasping Marsh, Animal Vision
4th: Remove Curse + Fire Shield, Summon Elemental, Air Walk
5th: Breath of Life + Acid Storm, Wall of Stone, Grisly Growths, Magnetic Repulsion, Synesthesia from Crossblooded Evolution
6th: Disintegrate + Chain Lightning, Scintillating Safeguard, Nature’s Reprisal, Slow
7th: Contingency + Energy Aegis, Frigid Flurry, Haste
8th: Moment of Renewal + Horrid Wilting, Burning Blossoms, Deluge, Stoneskin
9th: Meteor Swarm + Implosion, Banishment
10th: Summon Kaiju

Signature Spells
Heal, Dispel Magic , Summon Animal, Summon Fey, Summon Elemental, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Chain Lightning, Summon Giant, Acid Storm


Dutiful Retaliation wrote:

Eidolon Occult Transmutation

Source: Secrets of Magic pg. 63
Trigger: An enemy within 15 feet of you hits you with a Strike and deals damage to you.
Requirements: Your eidolon is within 15 feet of you.
Your eidolon instinctively flashes with ectoplasmic energy, allowing them to strike back against an enemy who dares to harm you. Your eidolon makes a melee unarmed Strike against the triggering enemy, even if that enemy isn't within your eidolon's reach.

and

Meld into Eidolon wrote:

Source Secrets of Magic pg. 67

Your physical form can combine with that of your eidolon, granting benefits but limiting your capabilities. You Manifest your Eidolon, but instead of summoning it into an adjacent open space, you become it. While Manifested in this way, you use its statistics, and you can't act except to direct it to use Manifest an Eidolon to unmanifest it. Since you can't act, you can't Cast Spells, activate or benefit from magic items that normally benefit you and not your eidolon, perform actions that have the tandem trait, or use other abilities that require you, and not the eidolon, to act. Your can't be separately targeted while you are melded into it. When you reach 0 HP, your eidolon unmanifests, leaving your body behind, unconscious and dying.

Question: Can your Eidolon use Dutiful Retaliation while you are melded? Thus striking back when the Summoner ie the Eidolon is hit.

I'm thinking yes.


I'd like to note that Tempest Oracle now have another spell they can use to get their bonus electrical damage
Briny Bolt. Unfrotunately it is arcane/primal and on no deity list yet. So you can only get it via human or elf ancestry feats at the moment.


A quick example from my game last night, on line of effect versus line of sight.

Names removed to avoid spoilers.

The PCs travelling in a forest, came across a nest of animals in the middle of a stream. The animals attacked to defend their territory.

The animals had good movement and stealth powers so they climed up the bank and hid in the forest. Attacking players with darting attacks, retreating into the undergrowth each turn with their excellent stealth.

Yes I gave the animals a special movement power so I could stride, attack, then stride and hide as a single action. Why? Because they needed it tactically to make their powers make sense and the players certainly had that.

This forced the PCs to make seek checks, point out, attempt flat checks versus hidden targets. The animals got in some good damage while the PCs got their tactics together.
Eventually the PCs goblin sorcerer landed dazzled and 5 persistent fire damage on the last creature.

Being an animal, it ran wildly and jumped into the river. I ruled that is was visible to the PCs as the water was clear, but it was also 10 ft down, that is at least 5 foot of water between the PCs and it.

Not willing to let anything escape the PCs continued to hunt it. Arrow shot failed. Electric arc hit the water and fizzled. Line of Sight but not Line of Effect.

The creature rolled a 1 and a 2 on its flat check to remove the ongoing fire damage. I was giving it huge modifiers but I felt I had to let the sorcerers napalm keep working in that situation. Other GMs may have just had the fire automatically go out.

Next the Magus tried Magic Missile. Blam blam the missiles hit at precisely the right place on the surface of the water. None reached the creature. The player was a little surprised that Magic Missile wasn't a magic bullet.

Finally the Sorcerer tried Summon Animal for a Snapping Turtle. Yep the turtle could attack and did hit and hold. But the turtle was promptly eaten.

Then then rogue leapt in for an underwater strike at penalty, missing.

Then the inventor leapt in next to the creature then exploded. As the GM I could have gone either way on that effect. But I decided to let it the range 0 blast to work, ruling less than a foot of water was not an effective barrier. The creature was cooked and floated to the surface.

Post encounter the players checked the rules - sigh yep this is my home group. They agreed I got the line of effects rules right. Plus they all said it was fun.

Hope this example is useful. Cheers.


This build surprised me. Now you can't add damage together like this so it doesn't work. But at level 1 it does seem to. Because bleed damage is technically a damage type. Thoughts?


One gap in my strategy guide is how to use persistent damage.
Are there reasonable tactics for inflicting persistent damage and hiding or running away?
I ask because I really haven't used or seen used persistent damage successfully as a player (only as a GM). Because monsters just don't really last long enough. AFAICT it is just a nice little bonus for a round or two at best. Has anyone had better success with it as a player?


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I've put together a Strategy Guide

I'd really appreciate some more ideas about strategy and synergies in combat. I have a fair bit down but I know I am also missing much. Any thoughts?


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In case you missed the news. Look here to find the announcement of new Open RPG Creative License (ORC)


People have been suggesting using Psychic Dedication to get Imaginary Weapon via Intangible Dream to use with SpellStrike as a Magus.
The problem is Imaginary weapon is a Unique Psi Cantrip and Psychic Dedication says you gain a standard psi cantrip.
So in essense you need to take Parallel Breakthrough.
Which means it doesn't work till level 12 at the earliest as an archetype.

Are people actually using this in builds?


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I've seen a lot of people dissing alignment of late, so I thought I might lay out the case for why we have alignment, and why it is likely to stay.

Everyone agrees the alignment system is not a realistic description of morality. So do I, it is far too simple. It is just a quick heuristic that we can hang mechanics on.

Regardless, the alignment system persists why? Possibly tradition. But I think it is more likely that most people understand the 9 alignments - it has even seeped into the non gaming community. Ultimately heuristics survive because they are useful.

Pathfinder defines alignments very simply. D&D has similar but different definitions. I’m going to provide my own definitions that cover much the same space.

Good means that you are willing to help people outside your immediate community at significant cost to yourself.
Evil means that you are happy to harm people, even those of your community, especially if there is some gain in it for you.
Lawful means that you value structure and order, and are comfortable in large societies with strong rules.
Chaotic means that you value personal freedom and individuality and aren’t comfortable or strongly connected to any group larger than an extended family or tribe.
Neutral is what lies between. Most people are neutral

It provides a framework on which to hang the struggles of society. Good versus Evil. Civilisation versus the Wilderness. It is a useful axis to tell a story.

It is not complex or deep but then again most people don’t want it to be. Most people don’t really think a lot in terms of Good and Evil. It is more us and them. My group versus the other group. If it comes to mind it would be merely that my side is right.

The game needs to appeal to teenagers, the well educated, and those whose life has been tough and long. So it can’t be too deep at its base. That depth has to come from the participants and the story itself as it evolves.

Good and Evil are not well defined. Deliberately so. We would never agree if we tried to do so. Good and Evil are determined by your personal ethos, philosophy, religion, culture and history. What we think of as right is not the same as what was thought 100 years ago. We also don’t want the same thing. Some people like to roleplay within the ethics of another culture, another time, or a strange religion. Some people prefer to game with more mainstream modern ethics, while others find that anachronistic and aim at something they see as historical. We just want to tell different stories.

Some people argue that Good and Evil don’t really exist, it is all relative. Others see it as a hard truth and how they live their life day to day.

In this game we have actual deities as well. Polytheism is standard simply because it gives us more variety. Having overarching threads of Good and Evil gives us ways to group these deities together and share mechanics. Good and Evil are cosmic forces much the same as gravity is. The mechanics we get out of alignment are unique. Alignment damage that only affects one side is cool and cinematic. A protective barrier against Evil is a classic of many stories. But how far we go into these mechanics is up to us.

Alignment is a step in characterisation. It is not the best tool for this but it is very pragmatic. The GM needs to know how to motivate the party. Is it good deeds, or is it a reward? Are the PCs likely to fight to the bitter end, or will they cut and run? If you define at least your alignment the GM is going to know where to start. So in a sense it is the most minimal step of characterisation.

Where alignment goes off track is when people use it to define their characters, or justify their actions by it. Don’t do it. There is not enough depth to it. Most people won’t find it a good excuse to commit party suicide by being stupidly brave, or betraying them just because you were secretly evil. That is a poor game experience. People are more complex. Chaotic people don’t have to have low self discipline, Evil people can still be cooperative and have long term goals, Lawful people might still choose to subvert laws they are opposed to, and Good people can have other priorities and choose not to help. People also don’t always 100% fit inside an alignment box. Sometimes different parts of their personality will conflict.

Instead describe your character and play it how you want. Your alignment should somewhat fit your description. To help you get started you are far better off thinking about
* your background. Where have you come from and what was it like? PF2 does really well with a lot of backgrounds.
* any personality quirks and traits - and how you got them. D&D5 did better here with their Ideals and Bonds. Try this random generator until you feel inspired.
* your anathema. If you took one of the options that gives you one
* your religion. If it is important to your character.
* or you could start with a person, fictional or real, you are trying to emulate or parody. My current party has the Witcher, Buffy, a former Prime Minister, and more besides…

Develop and define your character as the game progresses. It is much better to do than to merely say.

If you go for a religion then PF2 has a brief description of each deity so you know what you are in for. The details are very open for you and the GM to get into if you want. Keep it light or fully engage, it is up to you and your group.

Alignment is sitting there if we want to use it. But we don’t even have to. Healing is no longer just the domain of the divine. If you leave out Clerics and Champions from the center of your stories then alignment doesn’t have to come up at all. There are optional rules to not use alignment at all, or to only use it for extreme cases.

If your world is really just shades of gray, then perhaps alignment is not right for you. But not everyone wants to play in that world.


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It’s a really complex class with a lot of flavour. The implements enable a lot of different styles. There are two guides out there
John R's Thaumaturge Guide and VampByDay’s Thamaturge Guide. But they are obviously early days. I’m seeking feedback on some suggestions I'm putting together. How would you build a Thaumaturge?

My thoughts:

The Thaumaturge is built on a solid martial chassis but it is an odd, build your own, character class. It looks a little bit like a Striker that uses weakness as its schtick, but you can build almost anything with it by selecting different implements. It pays for this flexibility by having a low for a martial d8 hit dice. Your main mechanic is Esoteric Lore, a special Charisma based Lore and annoyingly you need to make lore checks not Recall Knowledge to get it to work - so your item bonuses are limited to things like Wardrobe Stone and Cognitive Mutagen. Guidance and Heroism are particularly good for you. It suffers from Multiple Attribute Dependency. Strength is useful as melee is favoured, but you also have other Recall Knowledge abilities so you do want Intelligence as well. Obviously you can't do everything.
You get three implements in total. The second at 5th level the 3rd at 15th. You get the Initiate and Intensify benefits from all three, the Adept benefit from two (levels 7 and 11, a feat at level 18 can get a third), and the Paragon benefit from one at level 17.

You should get one of the good reactions on offer early: Amulet, Bell, are very reliable and you will use them almost every round. Weapon is OK.
Tome, Weapon get very nice attack effects from level 9. These help to overcome the fact that you are a martial class attacking with your secondary ability score. Importantly they work together.
Wand is Ok as an offensive option which combines well with a weapon attack. Its real cost is the actions required.
Regalia gives you a strong bonus to some great skills
Chalice is healing, Lantern is good utility, Mirror is just odd and its purpose seems to be dangerously exposing yourself for a flanking bonus, or a complex short range teleport.

Here are three build outlines I’ve pushed strongly into a role. A more equalised build might be better in play.

Slayer
The slayer really leans into the offence to slay evil with the best chance of landing critical blows.
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Breastplate, WarHammer or Pick
General Feats: Toughness
Implements: Weapon, Tome, Wand.
Class Feats: Level 1: Scroll Thaumaturgy, Level 2: Talisman Esoterica, Level 4: Breached Defenses, Level 6: Scroll Esoterica, Level 8: Cursed Effigy, Level 10: Share Weakness, Level 12: Elaborate Scroll Esoterica, Level 14: Trespass Teleportation, Level 16: Implement's Flight, Level 18: Grand Scroll Esoterica, Level 20: Ubiquitous Weakness
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation, Deception

Protector
A cautious warrior and healer, the protector concentrates on keeping his flock alive.
Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Rapier and Hand Crossbow
Implements: Amulet, Chalice, Lantern
Class Feats: Level 1: Ammunition Thaumaturgy, Level 2: Esoteric Warden, Level 4: Breached Defenses, Level 6: Scroll Esoterica, Level 8: Cursed Effigy, Level 10: Share Weakness, Level 12: Shared Warding, Level 14: Esoteric Reflexes, Level 16: Sever Magic, Level 18: Intense Implement, Level 20: Ubiquitous Weakness
Skills: Intimidation, Diplomacy

Wily Leader
An experienced leader, quick to seize any opening, your team trusts you to have a plan.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Rapier and Hand Crossbow
Implements: Regalia, Bell, Weapon
Class Feats: Level 1: Diverse Lore, but you want Ammunition Thaumaturgy as well, Level 2: Marshal Dedication, Level 4: Inspiring Marshal Stance or Dread Marshal Stance, Level 6: Sympathetic Vulnerabilities, Level 8: To Battle, Level 10: Share Weakness, Level 12: Thaumaturge's Demesne, Level 14: Esoteric Reflexes, Level 16: Target of Opportunity, Level 18: Intense Implement, Level 20: Wonder Worker
Skills: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Deception, various knowledges
Unmistakable Lore is worth picking up with Esoteric Lore


So following on from the RAW discussion
Example the Golem Antimagic of the Wood Golem

A golem is immune to spells and magical abilities other than its own, but each type of golem is affected by a few types of magic in special ways. These exceptions are listed in shortened form in the golem's stat block, with the full rules appearing here. If an entry lists multiple types (such as “cold and water”), either type of spell can affect the golem. For the wood golem its vulnerability is of course fire.

Which means no attack rolls or saving throws the Golem just takes damage if you target it with its vulnerability.

Area effect spells mostly don't target so by the rules a Fireball does no damage to a Wood Golem

Its unclear where spell immunity ends, probably permanent effects don't count for spell immunity. What about indirect enviroment effects, sensory illusions. What should the Golem actualy immune to?
Wall of Stone
Darkness
Illusionary Object
Illusionary Creature
Invisibility (on a 3rd party)
Stoneskin (on a 3rd party)
Mudpit
Black Tentacles
Fire damage on a Flaming Sword?

How do you play it? How should you play it?


Following on from the Golem harmed by thread I realised I still wasn't playing everything strictly by the rules. So I just want to lay out the strict rules for Golems using the Wood Golem as my example.

Please critique my rules arguments. Lets worry about balance and what you should actually use till after we have the rules technically correct. This is a technical discussion if that bothers you, look elsewhere.

This first post is just definitions, skip to the next if you know all this:

CRB page 628 defines ability as basically anything specific described in the rules that is not a general rule. So it includes feats, skills and spells, and is very broad.

Effect being defined as the result of an ability, CRB page 631. Further, anything you do in the game has an effect.

So both are very broad game terms. To clarify the difference between an ability and an effect, note that the result of an ability is an effect.

Damage is just one type of effect, there are other effects like a condition can be imposed.

Traits and damage types are enumerated in the rules.

Targets. Spells that affect multiple creatures in an area can have both an Area entry and a Targets entry. A spell that has an area but no targets listed usually affects all creatures in the area indiscriminately.

Line of Effect. When creating an effect, you usually need an unblocked path to the target of a spell, the origin point of an effect’s area, or the place where you create something with a spell or other ability.
And
In an area effect, creatures or targets must have line of effect to the point of origin to be affected. If there’s no line of effect between the origin of the area and the target, the effect doesn’t apply to that target.

I’d like to note that there are some gaps here. Area of effects do not necessarily target. There are area of effect spells with no targets and no saving throws e.g. Darkness and MudPit. Fireball has a saving throw and an effect but not targets - which is important as you don’t have to know exactly where your enemy is hiding to use it.

Here's the immunity rules
When you have immunity to a specific type of damage, you ignore all damage of that type. If you have immunity to a specific condition or type of effect, you can't be affected by that condition or any effect of that type. You can still be targeted by an ability that includes an effect or condition you are immune to; you just don't apply that particular effect or condition.
If you have immunity to effects with a certain trait (such as death effects, poison, or disease), you are unaffected by effects with that trait. Often, an effect has a trait and deals that type of damage (this is especially true in the case of energy damage types). In these cases, the immunity applies to the effect corresponding to the trait, not just the damage. However, some complex effects might have parts that affect you even if you're immune to one of the effect's traits; for instance, a spell that deals both fire and acid damage can still deal acid damage to you even if you're immune to fire.

Also check the rules for subordinate actions The subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. Similarly note that Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. Basically what the rules say is that traits aren’t inherited.

So this means that a Strike with a magical weapon is not a magical ability, but the damage and the effect is still magical because of the fundamental rune on the weapon.


I want to discuss the effectiveness of Animal Companions after the errata
Before I do I just want to check I have my numbers right. Is this spreadsheet correct? Has someone else like Gisher done a better one?

They of course show a fairly strong divergence from level 14.


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This old problem has come back again with avengence in the Book of the Dead. The Incorporeal trait. The problem being that
An incorporeal creature can’t attempt Strength-based checks against physical creatures or objects—only against incorporeal ones—unless those objects have the ghost touch property rune. Likewise, a corporeal creature can’t attempt Strength-based checks against incorporeal creatures or objects

Its completely clear in the rules that swinging an axe is a strength based check and so that effect just fizzles and fails unless a ghost touch rune is in play.

Yes a check is everything read here and here. It is the title of two rules sections its not undefined or unclear in the slightest.

Its also clear that a majority of GMs play the game as if that isn't the case they read it as Strength-based Skill checks ie Athletics checks. Only a minority of GMs like myself stuck strictly to the rule as we were happy for there to be a relatively strong monster immunity in the game.

In the base game it was all fine. All incorporeal creatures only had finesse attacks. The rules were applied consistently.

Clearly this interpretation on the part of GMs has now been adopted for the Book of the Dead.

Why? Because of the Ghost Archetype and the Ghost Undead Companion

These of course are fundamentally broken by the rules. They trivialise a large portion of encounters.


Is there a way to get doubling rings to work with two ranged weapons, or an alternative item that does the same job?

I'm thinking of a Pistolero with two hand crossbows or two Dueling Pistols

Would adding a Reinforced Stock help at all?


This is a level 11 goblin gunslinger with Burn It and an alchemical flavour. Done by a gamer not that familiar with the PF2 system.

Problem is he is trying to use Alchemical Shot and its just not good value. There is a Fighter in the party with Eldritch Archer doing an Eldritch Shot for 2d8 Long Bow+1d6Rune+6d6 cantrip (TKP)+ weapon specialization making the damage comparison very stark.

Character looks like

Str 10, Dex 20, Con 16 Int 19 Wis 8 Cha 18

Way of the Sniper
Munitions Crafter
Alchemical Shot
Advanced Shooter
Munitions Machinist
Precious Munitions

Weapon is Drake Rifle (Electricity)

Hasn't filled in his free archetype yet.

Yeah I know the stats are odd.

So keeping the flavour, what should I suggest to this fellow player he does to be a bit more competitive?


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This is the Sorcerer Builds and rounds my build collection.
I have basic builds in varying states for each class in the game and all of their subclasses.
Feedback and new ideas are welcome
Please feel free to use this as a discussion thread for any of them.

Sorcerer
A pure caster class with similar spell numbers to the wizard. They can be of any tradition and have a great selection of bloodline options. If you want to be a caster this is the class for you.
Because they have Dangerous Sorcery available many people automatically think of Sorcerers as blasters but that is only true if you want it to be. While it's a good idea to take a spell like Magic Missile as a signature spell so you can always use every spell slot effectively, you could just as easily take Heal or Fear or Befuddle or Illusory Object and combine it with a few spells of different levels so you have good coverage

The Natural
Studying and hard work is just overrated. It’s much better to just come from the right Noble family. I mean you have a spellbook. So you could look things up if you have to. But you can fake it if you need to (Deception/Diplomacy) Why bother learning skills when you can just remember with a trivial bit of magic (Ancestral Memories)?
The Imperial sorcerer is a well balanced arcane caster. With great skill options, it's effective with illusions because it has a great deception skill. It can counterspell. It's great against any other caster.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry
Bloodline: Imperial and also take the Noble background.
Ancestry: Kitsune, Dark Fields Kitsune, 1st: Star Orb, 5th: Shifting Faces, 9th: Natural Ambition for Widen Spell, 13th: Killing Stone, 17th: Heroic Presence
General Feats: Armor Proficiency retrain when you get Bracers to Adopted Ancestry Human to pick up Widen Spell
Class Feats: Level 2: Counterspell, Level 4: Arcane Evolution for a spellbook, Level 6: Energetic Resonance, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Heal or any other spell you want, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Arcane Countermeasure, Level 12: Blood Component Substitution, Level 14: Soulsight, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Deception, Diplomacy, Stealth, Intimidation, Arcana

Child of the Dragon
The blood of dragons runs in your family, magic comes to you almost unbidden and is always on your finger tips.
There is a lot more tweaking you can do, but this is the best balanced arcanist in the game. You have a good utility focus power in flight and a good attack spell in damage breath. Yes, damage is not always the right tactic but it is the most reliable. It effectively gives you a couple of extra spell slots every encounter, which puts the wizard to shame. Plus you have effective Charisma skills and a spellbook for when it's important to get a particular spell.
When choosing your dragon type consider the resistance that you get through Dragon Claws (I prefer fire, piercing and bludgeoning) and the range and damage type you get with Dragon Breath (60ft line is good for staying out of reach and is easiest to use, a 10ft burst at range 30ft is effective, a 30 ft cone is a larger area but you are more vulnerable).

Str 8 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry
Bloodline: Draconic
Ancestry: Elf, Cavern Elf, 1st: Ancestral Linguistics, 5th: Ageless Patience, 9th: Nimble Elf, 13th: Elf Step, 17th: Wandering Heart
General Feats: Armor Proficiency retrain when you get Bracers
Class Feats: Level 2: Dangerous Sorcery or Familiar if you aren’t going to take many damaging spells, Level 4: Arcane Evolution for a spellbook, Level 6: Advanced Bloodline for Dragon Breath, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Heal or any other spell you want, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Dragon Wings, Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Bloodline Resistance, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Deception, Diplomacy, Stealth, Intimidation, Arcana

Holy Angel
The embodiment of a holy angel sent to earth the Angelic sorcerer is a great healer.
Angelic Halo is a nice bonus to healing. It's got a lot of quality spells known. The blood magic effect +1 to saving throws is very nice.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Heavy Crossbow - reload between combats, Staff of Healing
Bloodline: Angelic
Ancestry: Human, Versatile Heritage, 1st: Adapted Cantrip for Electric Arc, 5th: Cooperative Nature, 9th: Adaptive Adept , 13th: Natural Ambition for a Familiar, 17th: Heroic Presence
General Feats: Armor Proficiency retrain when you get Bracers
Class Feats: Level 2: Blessed Blood for anticipate peril, resilient sphere, wall of force from Grundinnar (The Peacemaker) [LG], Level 4: Divine Evolution for an extra Heal, Level 6: Advanced Bloodline for Angelic Wings, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Phantasmal Killer then next level Synesthesia, Level 10: Bloodline Resistance, Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Level 16: Greater Vital Evolution
Skills: Intimidation, Diplomacy, Stealth, Medicine,

Vampire Spawn
Your father was a vampire and your mother was a duskwalker and somehow you survived. You are full of power like an undead but your heart has not been corrupted.
Your first signature spell should be Harm. You are very good at it thanks to your blood magic. Likewise Drain Life is very strong for a one action spell. You can even protect an ally from it if you prepare with Undeath's Blessing. You can pour out a lot of spells very quickly thanks to one action Harm. Just be careful to pace yourself - to help you have some good cantrips and focus spells. Note the Clerical magic uses your normal Divine DC so you can mix it in freely if you have more space.
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 18 (Voluntary flaw)
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Crossbow,
Ancestry: Human, Duskwalker , 1st: Natural Ambition 5th: Adapted Cantrip for Scatter Scree, 9th: Multitalented, 13th: Calaca's Showstopper, 17th: Lifesense
Deity: Uvuko (The Diamond Ring) [CG]
General Feats: Armor Proficiency at level 3
Bloodline: Undead
Class Feats: Level 1: Blessed Blood for Fleet Step, Haste, Dragon Form, Level 2: Dangerous Sorcery because it stacks with Harm and your Blood Magic, Level 4: Divine Evolution for an extra Harm, Level 6: Advanced Bloodline for Drain Life, Level 8: Cleric Dedication, Level 10: Domain Initiate for Winter Bolt; Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Greater Bloodline for Grasping Grave; Level 16: Greater Vital Evolution
Skills: Intimidation, Stealth,

Horror Cat
Your limbs are a bit loose because you got too close to an abyssal portal in your youth. You were pulled away but some hidden scars remain.
Thanks to your stretchy Tentacular Limbs you can get very good value out of touch spells that everyone else ignores e.g. Imp Sting and Vampiric Touch. Also True Strike may be handy.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows,
Ancestry: Catfolk, Clawed Catfolk, 1st: Natural Ambition 5th: Adapted Cantrip for Scatter Scree, 9th: Multitalented, 13th: Calaca's Showstopper, 17th: Lifesense
General Feats: Armor Proficiency at level 3 retrain when you get Bracers, Toughness
Bloodline: Aberrant
Class Feats: Level 2: Dangerous Sorcery, Level 4: Cleric Dedication of Shyka (The Many) [N], Level 6: Withering Grasp via Domain Initiate - this doesn’t work till you get more focus points so retrain to this at level 12 and make do with Occult Evolution till then, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Fireball then Wall of Stone, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Unusual Anatomy; Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14:; Level 16: Greater Vital Evolution
Skills: Intimidation, Stealth,

Shadow Sorcerer
Darkness is your friend. You have always had a natural ability slinking and hiding in the dark, you can even bend the shadows.
This is a very powerful ability to play with Darkness especially heightened to level 4 where it gives you Concealed even against creatures with darkvision. It will wipe the board against a good portion of enemies. Make sure your allies can cope or coordinate with you. Darkvision, Blind-Fight and Defy the Darkness help and they are good picks anyway.
With Dim the Light you have some pretty good options to Stealth away. This type of Sorcerer would play well in a stealthy party.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Bracers of Armor,
Ancestry: Fetchling, Liminal Fetchling, 1st: Shadow Blending 5th: Clever Shadow, 9th: Shadow Sight, 13th: Skirt the Light, 17th: Slink
General Feats:
Bloodline: Shadow
Class Feats: Level 2: Familiar, Level 4: Occult Evolution, Level 6: Advanced Bloodline for Steal Shadow, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Fireball then Wall of Stone, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Consuming Darkness; Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14:; Level 16: Greater Vital Evolution
Skills: Stealth, Deception

Princess
The animals are your friends. In fact everyone loves you. You sing to them to keep their spirits up.
Blinding Beauty is very strong. It's a single action which means you can ready it to use as a reaction. It’s a 30ft cone that blinds or dazzles only your enemies. So you can use it safely. This is a primal sorcerer built as a summoner.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Crossbow
Bloodline: Nymph ask the GM for the Royalty background
Ancestry: Gnome, Umbral Gnome, 1st: Empathic Plea 5th: Razzle Dazzle, 9th: First World Adept, 13th: Instinctive Obfuscation, 17th:
General Feats: Armor Proficiency at level 3 retrain when you get Bracers
Class Feats: Level 2: Bard Dedication, Level 4: Primal Evolution for an extra top level summons, Level 6: Advanced Bloodline for Blinding Beauty, Level 8: Inspirational Performance, Level 10: Crossblooded Evolution for Summon Entity or Summon Dragon, Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Bloodline Resistance, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Diplomacy, Stealth, Intimidation

Fire Sorcerer
The pure power of fire speaks to you.
This is the most damaging blaster in the game. Elemental toss gives you a single action attack spell to squeeze the most out of your turn. Your blood magic gives an extra +1 damage per spell level which combines with Dangerous Sorcery , and Burn It covers a few gaps.

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of Fire
Bloodline: Elemental
Ancestry: Goblin, Charhide Goblin, 1st: Burn It 5th: Goblin Scuttle , 9th: Skittering Scuttle, 13th: Very Sneaky, 17th: Very Very Sneaky
General Feats: Armor Proficiency at level 3 retrain when you get Bracers
Class Feats: Level 2: Dangerous Sorcery, Level 4: Primal Evolution for a top level summons, Level 6: Familiar, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Illusory Creature, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Elemental blast, Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Overwhelming Energy, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Intimidation, Stealth, Deception

Phoenix Reborn
Reborn through the Rejuvenating flames of a Phoenix you spread it everywhere. The pure of heart are renewed and the foul burn.
This build is a good compromise between a healer and an offensive caster.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of Fire
Bloodline: Phoenix
Ancestry: Human, Skilled Heritage, 1st: Natural Ambition, 5th: Burn It, 9th: Cooperative Nature, 13th: Advanced General Training, 17th: Heroic Presence
General Feats: Armor Proficiency at level 3 retrain when you get Bracers to Adopted Ancestry so you can learn the mystical Goblin cultural technique of Burn It
Class Feats: Level 1: Widen Spell, Level 2: Dangerous Sorcery, Level 4: Primal Evolution for a top level summons, Level 6: Familiar, Level 8: Crossblooded Evolution for Circle of Protection, Level 10: Greater Bloodline for Cleansing Flames, Level 12: Bloodline Focus, Level 14: Overwhelming Energy, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Intimidation, Stealth, Deception


Has anyone got ideas to do with the Witch class?

The witch class has a lot of flavour attached to it. Each witch has a Patron which determines the type of magical tradition the witch's spells are. A witch can cast spells from any one tradition Arcane, Divine, Occult or Primal. It's got two other main mechanics. A familiar that teaches the witch magic rather than a spell book. It comes back every day even if it's destroyed. Also Hex magic which are a collection of focus spells and cantrips that define the witches unique powers. The Lessons that a Witch can learn are not tied to anyone one patron, they also include a spell which can be a good add to another tradition.
The compulsory feats are Level 1: Cackle because it's an extra action, Level 12: Hex Focus to recover focus points, Level 16: Effortless Concentration because you have many sustains. The witch has so many focus powers available via its lessons. But you can only use so many till you get Hex Focus.
Familiars are useful and thanks to phase familiar and getting free replacement every day, witches familiars can take risks. A familiar is good for scouting, aiding skills, and bonus bits of magic. The special familiars are not generally worthwhile but Calligraphy Wyrm and Faerie Dragon have useful powers in combat.

Arcane Witch
The only arcane witch is the Rune patron. Their Hex Cantrip is to discern secrets which the witch casts on themselves to get a bonus to recall knowledge, sense motive or seek. This lends itself to a recall Knowledge build.
Str 8 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 8 taking a flaw to boost Wisdom
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry
Class Feats: Level 2: Basic Lesson (Dreams, Life, Vengeance or Elements), Level 4: Loremaster, Level 6: Cackle, Level 8: Loremaster's Etude, Level 10: Major Lesson (Death or Frozen), Level 12: Hex Focus, Level 14: Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Lore, Arcana, Society, Medicine

Divine Witch
The only divine witch is the Fervor patron with Stoke the Heart. It's a broadly useful damage buff that works best on things that attack often like two weapon Fighters or Rangers. I’ve gone for a weapon here as this witch could do with another option.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Composite Short Bow
Class Feats: Level 2: Archer Dedication, Level 4: Cackle, Level 6: Greater Lesson (Shadow), Level 8: Enhanced Familiar, Level 10: Major Lesson (Death or Frozen), Level 12: Hex Focus, Level 14: Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Lore, Religion, Stealth, Society, Medicine

Occult Witch
Lots of options for an Occult Witch. Baba Yaga can do cute animate object tricks, Fate for some minor dice manipulation in Nudge Fate. Night is interesting as it can interfere with the vision of anyone without Darkvision via Shroud of Night. But the best is Curse with Evil Eye.
Witches can make magical potions (not alchemy) and there is some support for it in class.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor,
Class Feats: Level 2: Basic Lesson (Dreams or Life), Level 4: Cackle, Level 6: Greater Lesson (Blizzard), Level 8: Cauldron, Level 10: Temporary Potions, Level 12: Hex Focus, Level 14: Major Lesson (Death or Frozen) Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Occultism, Stealth, Crafting, Society, Medicine

Primal Witch
Several primal options. Mosquito Witch for Buzzing Bites and Winter for Clinging Ice are great, less so Wild for wilding word it's too narrow.
Alchemy is stronger than the witches own brewing but is thematic enough it may be a better choice.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor,
Class Feats: Level 2: Alchemist Dedication, Level 4: Cackle, Level 6: Greater Lesson (Shadow) or Basic Lesson (Elements), Level 8: Expert Alchemy, Level 10: Major Lesson (Death or Frozen), Level 12: Hex Focus, Level 14: Master Alchemy, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Nature, Stealth, Crafting, Society, Medicine

Familiar Witch
If you want to get a special familiar early you can do it like this. You should have a Faerie Dragon by level 6. I recommend it with the Curse patron with Evil Eye and you will be a great debuffer.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor,
Class Feats: Level 2: Basic Lesson (Dreams or Life), Level 4: Enhanced Familiar, Level 6:Improved Familiar, Level 8: Cackle, Level 10: Major Lesson (Death or Frozen), Level 12: Hex Focus, Level 14: Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Stealth, Society, Medicine


Some basic ideas around Bards. No complex builds. Just to get people started.
Linked version is here

Bard
It really seems like the guy who wrote the book wanted to play a Bard. When you look at all the little details of their features the Bard has the pick of the crop. It’s got a good selection of weapons by default, enough armour, the best buffing in the game, it has extra skills, the best ability score for skills and innate magic, features to help with action economy, plus it's a full caster on a great spell list, including healing, better perception than other casters, all this before you dive into their specific features. A lot of the other classes need to take extra proficiencies to cover gaps. It's just not required for the Bard.

There are 4 muses, but one, the Maestro, is clearly much better than the others. But it doesn’t matter so much as they can all take Multifarious Muse as a level 2 feat and grab off each other anyway. The difficulty being there are a lot of good low level feats to take.

I’ve put some front line Bards builds because the Warrior muse demands it. Bards aren’t martial characters, but they are tougher than wizards, buff yourself and be careful how you play.

Instrument use is totally optional, just keep a hand free and you are fine.

I haven’t done any ancestries here but just a note that Songbird Strix get a nice bonus to perform.

Balanced Bard

Most bards look like this. It just works, every round you Inspire Courage, then for your two actions you Shield and fire your bow, or Telekinetic Projectile, or cast an actual spell. Then there is Bon Mot which you’d probably use before a Will based spell. It's an embarrassment of riches and that's before taking any class feats. You could take more options but you only have so many actions in a turn.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18

Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Shortbow, Rapier

General Feats:

Muse: Maestro

Class Feats: Level 1: Lingering Composition, Level 2: Hymn of Healing, Level 4: Inspire Competence Aid any skill, Level 6: Dirge of Doom, Level 8: Inspire Heroics, from here on its optional … Level 10: House of Imaginary Walls, Level 12: Inspirational Focus, Level 14: Earworm, Level 16: Effortless Concentration

Focus Spell: Hymn of Healing is healing, Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds. Inspire Heroics scales some compositions up.

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Inspire Competence is a very flexible Aid. Dirge of Doom is really useful as it automatically makes your enemies afraid, and if other characters have their own status bonuses it's needed.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics

Maestro
The Maestro gets so lost in their music that they forget that they had spell slots at all. They are constrained to one composition at a time, until they learn to Harmonize. This approach to the Bard is very strong in larger parties. Note you do still have all your spells if you need, you just will do other things in combat, and probably will use more precombat buffs

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18

Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Shortbow, Rapier

General Feats:

Muse: Maestro

Class Feats: Level 1: Lingering Composition, Level 2: Inspire Competence, Level 4: Inspire Defense, Level 6: Harmonize, Level 8: Inspire Heroics, Level 10: Dirge of Doom, Level 12: Inspirational Focus, Level 14: Earworm, Level 16: Soothing Ballad, Level 18: Eternal Composition

Focus Spell: Soothing Ballad is impressive healing, Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds, Inspire Heroics scales some compositions up.

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Inspire Competence is a very flexible Aid. Inspire Defense and Dirge of Doom just give you stackable options.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics

Enigma
The Enigma bard is very interested in stories. Bardic Lore gives them a chance to know just about anything. It’s a bit awkward to find the space for the extra intelligence score but you need to for this feature.

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 18

Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Shortbow, Rapier

General Feats:

Muse: Enigma

Class Feats: Level 1: Bardic Lore, Level 2: Loremaster's Etude, Level 4: Multifarious Muse for Lingering Composition, Level 6: Dirge of Doom Level 8: Inspire Heroics, Level 10: Know-It-All, Level 12: Inspirational Focus, Level 14: Earworm, Level 16: Soothing Ballad, Level 18: Deep Lore

Focus Spell: Loremaster's Etude is roll twice on Recall Knowledge; Soothing Ballad is impressive healing, Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds, Inspire Heroics scales some compositions up.

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Dirge of Doom is hard to pass.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics

Polymath
The Polymath bard is into some flexible skills. Versatile Performance saves you investing much in Intimidation, and Diplomacy

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18

Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Shortbow, Rapier

General Feats:

Muse: Polymath

Class Feats: Level 1: Versatile Performance interpretative dance at its finest, Level 2: Esoteric Polymath a spellbook which is amazing even though it's only for only one spell, Level 4: Multifarious Muse for Lingering Composition, Level 6: Dirge of Doom, Level 8: Inspire Heroics, Level 10: Annotate Composition if you have an ally who has spare actions, Level 12: Inspirational Focus, Level 14: Earworm, Level 16: Soothing Ballad, Level 18: Impossible Polymath

Focus Spell: Soothing Ballad is impressive healing, Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds, Inspire Heroics scales some compositions up.

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Dirge of Doom is hard to pass.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics

Courageous Leader
The Warrior bard likes to join his men in battle. Well sometimes at least and perhaps on the flanks. Will use Shield a fair bit or could even consider a physical shield. It's not as strong or as tough as an actual martial character so it really needs to get some buffs up and be careful. Think about BattleForm spells like Fey Form and Ooze Form if you want a change of pace.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 16

Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Shortbow, Rapier (nothing you actually need Martial Performance for, but you might like some other options)

General Feats: Toughness

Muse: Warrior is needed for the feats in this build

Class Feats: Level 1: Martial Performance, Level 2: Multifarious Muse for Lingering Composition, Level 4: Courageous Advance, Level 6: Inspire Defense Level 8: Courageous Opportunity, Level 10: Courageous Assault, Level 12: Inspirational Focus, Level 14: Soothing Ballad, Level 16: Courageous Onslaught,

Focus Spell: Soothing Ballad is impressive healing, Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds,

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Inspire Defense will be needed if you find you need a bard in your front rank.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Intimidation, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics

Mighty Leader
The Mighty Leader likes to join his men in battle. But it's tough going so this is a very defensive martial build.

Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 16

Basic equipment: Breastplate via Armor Proficiency, Longsword, Sturdy Shield

General Feats: Armor Proficiency, Toughness, Shield Block you may want to be Human so you can do this early on.

Muse: Maestro yep not actually a Warrior build.

Class Feats: Level 1: Lingering Composition, Level 2: Bastion Dedication, Level 4:Inspire Defense, Level 6: Nimble Shield Hand to help with casting with your hands full, Level 8: Inspire Heroics, Level 10: Quick Shield Block, Level 12: Sentinel, Level 14: Inspirational Focus, Level 16: Effortless Concentration

Focus Spell: Lingering Composition gives you your composition spell at no action cost for a few rounds. Inspire Heroics scales some compositions up.

Composition Spells: Everyone gets Inspire Courage. Inspire Defense will be needed if you find you need a bard in your front rank.

Skill Feats: Bon Mot

Skills: Performance, Intimidation, Diplomacy, Deception, Occultism, Stealth, Acrobatics


Ok I'm sure no one has an opinion on the humble wizard. Here is my attempt at making a few wizard builds. The point of the builds is to explore the class and subclasses as I think they were intended to be used. Its not really about finding all the cute builds just covers the basics. Though I will digress. I often find I'm missing good feats like Spell Penetration just because there is something else more on theme I want.

I'll copy the details into this thread to for you to make it easier to see. But the live document will change.

Wizard
Traditionally one of the power classes at high level. Magic has been watered down a lot in PF2, but still a wizard can be very effective. The wizard is a prepared caster and is the strongest caster if they are prepared. If you find you are only casting the same few spells each time, then you’ll be better off as an arcane sorcerer. To be better a wizard needs to know what they are fighting. Knowledge, planning, reconnaissance, and a variety of options is important.

There are too many combinations of Schools and Theses for me to want to do them all. I’m just going to talk about some.

Illusionist
Illusions work really well in PF2 because they start off by being believed. Your enemy will have to send actions interacting with them to get a saving throw, or perhaps will just change what they were going to do. Wasting your enemies time or bluffing them into an alternate course of action is what you are trying to do. It's an intelligent and rewarding way to play.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 12

Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of Illusion or Staff of Evocation you’ll have many over your career, Ring of Wizardry

Arcane Thesis: Staff Nexus a very effective thesis enabling you to group your spells together to get more higher level spells, or to get spells of the levels you need. It is also great to get a charge efficient, always useful level 1 spell onto a staff. True Strike fits the bill but maybe not here, Summon Animal for lots of trap detection, but the one I like best is Befuddle

Arcane School: Illusion, Focus Spell: Warped Terrain which is a very useful barrier.

Class Feats: Level 2: Conceal Spell, Level 4: Silent Spell, Level 6: Convincing Illusion, Level 8: Advanced School Spell for Invisibility Cloak, Level 10:, Level 12:, Level 14: Bonded Focus, Level 16: Effortless Concentration,

Skills: Deception, Stealth, Arcana,

Some spell suggestions: Illusory Creature,

Counter Speller
Counterspelling is quite difficult, which is good or it would be too easy to shut casters down. But the wizard has some particular features for it. So this is how I would go about it. But don’t forget that this is still a regular wizard, counterspell is just a part of it.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10

Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry

Arcane Thesis: Spell Substitution just to help you have the spells you need.

Arcane School: Universalist, Focus Spell: Hand of the Apprentice - its single action.

Class Feats: Level 1: Hand of the Apprentice from Universalist, Level 2: Counterspell, Level 4: Linked Focus, Level 6: Loremaster, Level 8: Universal Versatility, Level 10: Loremaster's Etude, Level 12: Clever Counterspell, Level 14: Reflect Spell or Superior Bond,

Skills: Stealth, Arcana, lots of Lore skills because you need to be able to recognise all types of magic.

Skill Feat: Recognize Spell, Quick Recognition required, Unmistakable Lore is good for Loremaster Lore

Some spell suggestions: Quench has broad counterspell potential

UltimatePower
It's all about having the most top level spells in the game. That's where the true power lies. I’ve taken a secondary Arcane caster class and a focus spell so that you don’t feel the loss of the lesser spell slots so much.

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10

Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry

Arcane Thesis: Spell Blending for as many top level spells as you can.

Arcane School: Enchantment, Focus Spell: Charming Words which is ok for single action.

Class Feats: Level 2: Witch Dedication any arcane, Level 4: Basic Witch Spellcasting, Level 6: Enhanced Familiar, Level 8: Advanced School Spell for Dread Aura, Level 10:Patron's Breadth, Level 12:Expert Witch Spellcasting, Level 14: Bonded Focus, Level 16: Effortless Concentration, Level 18: Master Witch Spellcasting

Skills: Stealth, Arcana,

Toolbox
A professional wizard, you've done your research and equipped yourself with everything you need. No problem is insurmountable. It's all about the right tool for the job.

Str 10 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10

Basic equipment: Breastplate, Staff of Evocation, Ring of Wizardry

Arcane Thesis: Spell Blending for as many top level spells as you can

Arcane School: Evocation, Focus Spell: Force Bolt which is a good damage top up.

Class Feats: Level 2: Sentinel, Level 4: Enhanced Familiar (Valet ), Level 6: Alchemist Dedication, Level 8: Expert Alchemy, Level 10: Scroll Savant, Level 12:Master Alchemy, Level 14: Bonded Focus, Level 16: Effortless Concentration,

Skills: Arcana, Crafting

Skill Feats: Steel Skin, and Armor Specialist effective and gets out of the archetype faster, Inventor, Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable just seem to fit the concept too.

Some spell suggestions: You can afford to use cones a bit more than the average wizard as you are better armoured, but don’t think you are front line material. The familiar is to help hand you scrolls and potions efficiently. Try to pick up one in your ancestry eg Gnome or Ratfolk. Not really planning on using alchemical bombs much prefer healing and minor buffs.

Warden
A faithful old ranger dedicated to the knowledge of nature and the animals therein. He's been around for a while and his knowledge is much deeper than many suspect.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10

Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Ring of Wizardry, Shortbow

Arcane Thesis: Improved Familiar Attunement just to argue over your lore rolls, your familiar always has a Second Opinion, sometime he might even fetch a scroll or two Valet

Arcane School: Conjuration, Focus Spell: Augment Summoning - not great.

Ancestry: Ancient Elf for Ranger Dedication, Elven Weapon Familiarity and Ancestral Longevity

Class Feats: Level 2: Enhanced Familiar, Level 4: Basic Hunter's Trick for Monster Hunter, Level 6: Basic Hunter's Trick for Monster Warden, Level 8: Loremaster, Level 10: Loremaster's Etude, Level 12: Scroll Savant, Level 14: Superior Bond, Level 16: Effortless Concentration,

Skills: Stealth, Arcana, lots of Lore skills because you need to be able to recognise all types of monsters.

Skill Feat: Unmistakable Lore, Orthographic Mastery

Some spell suggestions: Summoning Spells are your focus because you know all about creatures, refer to Exocist’s guide to summoning or Tarondor’s Wizard Guide for specific suggestions.

Enter The Dragon
Some people just want to blast and for them the best way to do it is to dabble in other classes. It's pretty hard to get a major damaging focus spell that you can use every encounter as a Wizard. But you can do it by level 12 via multiclassing into a Draconic Sorcerer which keeps everything Arcane and on your spell DC.

Str 10 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 14

Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Staff of ?, Ring of Wizardry

Arcane Thesis: Metamagical Experimentation mostly you want Widen Spell because you are a blaster but there are options. Check out what the illusionist uses.

Arcane School: Abjuration, Focus Spell: Protective Ward - an AC buff. Note that you can do multiple sustains in a turn to pump up the radius.

Class Feats: Level 1: Widen Spell from Thesis, Level 2: Sorcerer Dedication, Level 4: Basic Bloodline Spell for Dragon Claws take Sea for bludgeoning resistance , Level 6: Basic Blood Potency for Dangerous Sorcery, Level 8: Advanced School Spell for Energy Absorption, Level 10: Scroll Savant, Level 12: Advanced Blood Potency for Dragon Breath, Level 14: Bonded Focus, Level 16: Effortless Concentration,

Skills: Stealth, Arcana, Intimidation, Deception


Here is my attempts at putting some Oracle builds together. I really couldn't get anything I liked for Ancestor or Lore. I've had a go, but I think if I was actally forced to play those subclasses I would bascially multiclass out and never trigger the curse. Does anyone have any idea how they are supposed to work?

Oracle
The Oracle is a spontaneous Divine Caster but each of its Mysteries has different advantages and benefits and thus each plays very differently. The Mysteries have benefits but also problems as your Curse progresses when you cast Revelation spells. There are limits on your Curse and you can lower the level to minor with a ten minute refocus, but you only remove it with a long rest. The result is you need to think carefully about your Revelation spells as you can’t always use them, so getting too many is a mistake. You will have an optimal level of Curse where your character functions well. Be that; no curse - so never using Revelation spells till you need to long rest, minor curse - using your revelation spells out of combat and refocusing back to minor, moderate curse - using your revelation spell once each combat, extreme curse is only possible from level 11 but it stops you from using other revelation spells till level 17. Note that unlike other classes your refocus ability automatically improves at level 11 - you don’t have to pay a feat for it.
Choose your deity and their alignment carefully as it impacts on your spell effects, typically LG is best. Your alignment can be different.

Ancestors
The Ancestor Mystery is one of the worst. You do get a couple of free ancestry feats which is nice, but having a failure chance for the main thing that your character does of 20% and higher is intolerable. The benefits are not worth the cost. The best way to play this mystery is to never ever advance your curse. Which of course means this seems like a design failure. To make it work you would need more control over your ancestral influence or much greater benefits. You need options for each ascendant ancestor so magic (already a full caster), strikes, skills. Options which you can always do would be: move, sustain a spell, command an animal companion or familiar, raise a shield, or give your action away as a Marshal.
I’m going to suggest a specific ancestry because this kind of demands it. So here is a Catfolk build. There is so little in Oracle Feats that I like there is plenty of space to take a better revelation spell. Vision of Weakness is actually seriously great but I don’t want to be tempted to screw over my character by using it.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, 1d6 Agile, Finesse Claws, Handwraps of Mighty Blows, with options for Composite ShortBow, Whip Claw, and maybe Sturdy Shield
Ancestry: Catfolk, Clawed Catfolk 1st: Cat’s Luck, Catfolk Weapon Familiarity 5th: Expanded Luck, 9th:Wary Skulker, 11th:Silent Step 13th: Catfolk Weapon Expertise and Black Cat Curse, 17th:Reliable Luck
Deity: Chohar (The Golden Lion) [LG]
General Feats: Weapon Proficiency, Toughness, retrain something into Ancestral Paragon at level 13
Class Feats: Level 2: Cantrip Expansion, Level 4: Divine Access for Burning hands, Fireball, Fire Shield, Level 6: Marshal Dedication, Level 8: To Battle, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:, Level 14: Target of Opportunity, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Ancestral Touch seems quite reasonable until you realise you have lost control of your character for the rest of the day.
Skills: Intimidation, Stealth, Diplomacy, Acrobatics, Society

Battle Melee
The battle mystery is not great because it tries to force you into combat even though you are primarily a caster. Your Minor curse is something you can mitigate and cope with, the Moderate curse has pluses and minuses, and the Major curse is a bonus as long as you aren’t casting offensive spells. At least you get the armour proficiency to help. So as long as you adjust your tactics to go with the flow it’s mostly workable and reasonably effective. You can lean into your curse and embrace it fairly well. This particular build really needs Spiritual Weapon to be able to deal with the curse if your enemy is at range.

Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Guisarme
Ancestry:Lizardfolk, Frilled Lizardfolk, 1st: Bone Magic 5th: Guided by the Stars, 9th:Terrain Advantage, 13th:Primal Rampage, 17th:Scion Transformation
Deity: Falayna [LG].
Class Feats: Level 2: Glean Lore, Level 4: Divine Access for True Strike, Ghostly Weapon, Cloak of Colors, Level 6: Vision of Weakness, Level 8:, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:, Level 14: Target of Opportunity, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Call to Arms an initiative bonus you can use every combat. It's a major boost to your party.
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation, Deception

Battle Archer
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, LongBow
Ancestry:Elf, Cavern Elf, 1st: Otherworldly Magic maybe Electric Arc 5th: Ageless Patience, 9th:Otherworldly Acumen for Illusory Creature or Mirror Image, 13th:Wandering Heart, 17th:Elf Step
Deity: Ragathiel [LG],
Class Feats: Level 2: Domain Acumen for Zeal Domain and Weapon Surge, Level 4: Divine Access for True Strike, Haste, Fire Shield, Level 6: Archer Dedication, Level 8: Point-Blank Shot, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Call to Arms
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Deception

Bones
The Bones Curse is largely reduced hitpoints and healing with some good bonuses against poison, disease and death. It's not great but it is workable. There is no pressing need to advance the curse as it is quite bad. This Oracle must stay out of melee range as they are vulnerable. So I have built this one as a full caster. It should be specialising in the necromantic side of the divine tradition.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Sling
Ancestry: Gnome, Fey Touched Gnome for Electric Arc, 1st: Animal Accomplice 5th: Empathic Plea, 9th:First World Adept, 13th:Instinctive Obfuscation, 17th:Homeward Bound
Deity: Dammerich [LG], the only good god of this mystery.
Class Feats: Level 2:Sorcerer Dedication for an arcane bloodline, Level 4:Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting, Level 6:Basic Blood Potency for Dangerous Sorcery, Level 8: Enhanced Familiar, Level 10: Advanced Blood Potency for Arcane Evolution, Level 12:Expert Sorcerer Spellcasting, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Master Sorcerer Spellcasting, Level 20: Divine Effusion
Focus Spell: Soul Siphon, a great single action spell, use it often or hardly ever and don’t bother to get another. Advanced Revelation for Armor of Bones is Ok if you must.
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Deception

Cosmos
Finally an Oracle that can fully embrace their curse. You can build the Cosmos Oracle as a ranged caster and be quite happy with it’s limitations.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Composite Short Bow
Ancestry: Tengu, Skyborn Tengu, 1st: Storm's Lash for Electric Arc 5th: Tengu Feather Fan, 9th:Wind Gods Fan, 13th:Thunder God's Fan, 17th:Favor of Heaven
Deity: The Prismatic Ray [NG] the only good god of this mystery that has a spell worth taking.
Class Feats: Level 2:Archer Dedication, Level 4:Divine Access for Sleep, Fireball, Creation, Level 6: Advanced Revelation for Interstellar Void, Level 8: Vision of Weakness, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:Enhanced Familiar, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Spray of Stars is ordinary. Take some better ones Vision of Weakness and Advanced Revelation for Interstellar Void - note that fatigued is a penalty to AC and saves and they have to critically save to avoid it.
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Deception

Flames
Another Oracle that can fully embrace their curse. Things being concealed from you more than 30ft away is not a major problem as Fireball doesn’t care about concealment.You get Produce Flame from your Mystery. The main thing is to get Burn it even from Adopted Ancestry if you have to. If you run up against things that are immune to fire, then you need to look toward other magic, of which the Divine list has plenty. Goblin Scuttle and an independent familiar who can trigger it for you every round is a lot of mobility.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Alchemist's Fire, Staff
Ancestry: Gnome, Charhide Goblin it doesn’t help you versus your curse but take it anyway, 1st: Burn It 5th: Goblin Scuttle , 9th: Skittering Scuttle, 13th:Very Sneaky, 17th:Very Very Sneaky
Deity: Sarenrae [NG] because Fireball is too hard to go past.
Class Feats: Level 2: Domain Acumen for Dazzling Flash or Fire Ray your choice, Level 4:Divine Access for Burning Hands, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Level 6: Familiar Master Dedication an independent flying raven seems good, Level 8:Enhanced Familiar, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Incendiary Aura is very nice when you can add to it with Burn It, Fire Ray is just nice damage every encounter.
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Deception

Life
A Life Oracle is a great healer with extra hitpoints. Your moderate Curse is a big bonus to Heal, but the Major Curse will kill you.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather,
Ancestry: Elf, Duskwalker, 1st: Elven Weapon Familiarity, 5th: Ageless Patience, 9th: Otherworldly Acumen, 13th:Calaca's Showstopper, 17th:Yamaraj's Grandeur
Deity: Uvuko [CG], .
General Feats: Ancestral Paragon for Otherworldly Magic for Electric Arc
Class Feats: Level 2: Domain Acumen for Healer's Blessing for even more ridiculous healing, Level 4: Divine Access for Fleet Step, Haste, Dragon form, Level 6: Vision of Weakness, Level 8:, Level 10: Quickened Casting, Level 12:, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Life Link is terrible. Yes you have the hitpoints to do it but you are harder to heal than anyone else. Doubling down on healing with Healer's Blessing is nice, is that enough to make LifeLink worth it? I doubt it. Anyway, Vision of Weakness is solid. Alternative: Dammerich [LG] for Death's Call and True Strike, Paralyze, Stoneskin,
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Deception

Lore
The Lore Mystery is very bad. You do get an extra spell of each level (bringing you up to where a Divine Sorcerer would be) which is very strong, but losing initiative is a huge penalty. Maybe you could take Oracular Warning and get some value out of it. Then it advances to permanent flatfooted which basically means you suffer +30% damage. The major curse is actually useful for out of combat investigation, The best way to play this mystery is to never ever advance your curse. Which of course means this seems like another design failure.
Then there is the problem that Vision of Weakness is actually seriously great so you don’t actually need or want to waste so much time on Recall Knowledge. Here it is. Please don’t play this. It plans on spending most of its turns buffing and healing and hiding under sanctuary.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather,
Ancestry: Kitsune, Empty Sky Kitsune 1st: Star Orb 5th: Kitsune Spell Mysteries for Sanctuary once per day, 9th:Fox Trick, 13th: Killing Stone 17th:Kitsune Spell Expertise
Deity: Kurgess[NG]
General Feats:
Class Feats: Level 2: Loremaster, Level 4: Divine Access for Ant Haul, Enlarge, Haste, Level 6: Loremaster's Etude, Level 8: Vision of Weakness, Level 10: Oracular Warning, Level 12: Quickened Casting, Level 14:, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Brain Drain is OK if you can pick up a useful clue..
Skills: Stealth, Diplomacy, Deception

Tempest
The tempest Oracle also lends itself to being a full caster. It starts with Electric Arc and its curse is a reasonable set of ranged defences providing your enemy doesn’t have lightning bolt.

Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Basic equipment: Studded Leather,
Ancestry: Sprite, Luminous Sprite 1st: Corgi Mount 5th: Evanescent Wings, 9th: Energize Wings, 13th: Invisible Trickster 17th:Hero's Wings
Deity: Ranginori [NG]

Class Feats: Level 2: Domain Acumen for Tidal Surge is a nice single action push spell, Level 4: Divine Access for Liberating command, Fly, Chain Lightning, Level 6: Advanced Revelation for Thunderburst, Level 8: Familiar Master Dedication, Level 10: Oracular Warning, Level 12: Quickened Casting, Level 14: Mysterious Repertoire, Level 16:, Level 18: Divine Effusion, Level 20: Oracular Providence
Focus Spell: Tempest touch is fair for a single action spell but its range touch. Thunderburst is an area of effect damage which is not great but given that it is a focus spell and heightens for free it's not too bad.
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation


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Druid
The Druid is a prepared caster much like the Cleric but it is just better. It starts with medium armour (not metallic), it starts with good focus spells, it has a better spells list with buffs, healing, control, and direct damage, plus it has a combat path built into the Wild Order which you can take without compromising your spell casting ability - you just can do both at once. The down side is the free heals that the cleric gets, and absence of simple numerical buffs. But they are boring so we are all good.

Storm Druid
Because you want to zap out a blast of lightning with Tempest Surge every combat. It's always nice to have a good staple. Storm Druids start with two focus points. You don’t have to play a simple blaster - though you can, Sudden Bolt is very good BTW - I prefer to abuse Obscuring Mist as you can see through it. Don’t forget to take some wall spells and at least one moderate level Heal spell.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Studded Leather
Class Feats: Level 1: Storm Born free with your order, Level 2: Order Explorer for Wave Order Shore Step, Level 4:, Level 6: Advanced Elemental Spell for Pulverizing Cascade which is a little fireball every combat, Level 8:Wind Caller so you can fly and cast, Level 10: , Level 12: Primal Focus,
Skills: Nature, Stealth, Acrobatics, Survival, Medicine ….

Leaf Druid
A leaf druid is more of a healer and works best I think with a good mix including control magic. Goodberry is helpful in combat, but you should always keep a moderate level Heal spell just in case for a big burst. If you want to roleplay a more passive character an animal companion for support is very useful. A Wolf is reasonably good if you are defensively minded, Scorpion is nicer for offence, especially Grab, Shove and Trip, a Boar is useful as a mount and the odd attack.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Studded Leather
Class Feats: Level 1: Leshy Familiar free with your order, Level 2: Order Explorer for Animal Order => Animal Companion, later take Enhanced Familiar Level 4:Mature Animal Companion, Level 6: , Level 8: Incredible Companion, Level 10: Plant Shape, Level 12: Primal Focus, Level 14: Specialized Companion, Level 16 Effortless Concentration
Skills: Nature, Stealth, Acrobatics, Survival, Medicine …

Wild Druid
This Druid is a substitute Martial character that buffs and turns into an animal form to fight almost every combat. Retrain your old feats as you go as you don’t need them all. Soaring shape is a nice utility but its not combat worthy, but is required for Dragon Shape. You might want to try Insect shape for a while. If you can get extra hit points via feats or voluntary flaws its worthwhile.
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 10
Basic equipment: Hide Armor, Handwraps of Mighty Blows
Class Feats: Level 1: Wild Shape free with your order, Level 2: FighterDedication, Level 4: Form Control, later Thousand Faces, Level 6: Opportunist, Level 8: Ferocious Shape/ Soaring Shape retrain as needed Level 10: Plant Shape, Level 12:Dragon Shape, later Primal Focus, Level 14:, Level 16: Monstrosity Shape, Level 18: Perfect Form Control, Level 20 : True Shapeshifter
Skills: Athletics, Nature, Stealth, Acrobatics, Survival, Medicine ….

Balanced Druid
A more balanced approach that still gets the best focus spells but not all the Wild Shape options
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Handwraps of Mighty Blows
Class Feats: Level 1: Storm Born free with your order, Level 2: Order Explorer for Wild Shape, then Order Explorer for Wave Order Shore Step, Level 4:, Level 6: Advanced Elemental Spell for Pulverizing Cascade, Level 8:Ferocious Shape/ Soaring Shape retrain as needed, Level 10:, Level 12: Dragon Shape or Primal Focus, Level 14:, Level 16 :Monstrosity Shape,
Skills:, Nature, Survival, Medicine ….

Flame Druid
The forest burns and regrows its part of the natural cycle. Removing old forest makes way for fresh growth and improves diversity. A bit of back burning here and there is good for the forest. Just as long as it's not out of control. This philosophy does occur in some real world native cultures like Australian Aboriginal but it’s not going to be shared by all Druids.
To get this to work well you have to take the Goblin feat Burn it for this, even if via Adopted Ancestry. The key is the focus spell Wildfire, a sustainable area effect fire damage in an expanding area. To work well it requires you to invest in control powers to slow their movement. It’s better if you have room to move or have a choke point you can defend. Lose the Path becomes hilarious.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, Handwraps of Mighty Blows
Class Feats: Level 1: Fire Lung free with your order for Wildfire , Level 2: Order Explorer for Shore Step, then Order Explorer for Wave Order, Level 4:, Level 6: Advanced Elemental Spell for Pulverizing Cascade and Combustion , Level 8:, Level 10:Overwhelming Energy, Level 12: Primal Focus, Level 14:, Level 16: Effortless Concentration
Skills: Nature, Stealth, Acrobatics, Survival, Medicine ….

Rules Problems: Wildshape has lots of rules problems unfortunately. The rules for 1-4 are clear but some people do other things anyway. Check with your GM.
1) Technically a Druid in a WildShape Battle Form can only attack with the listed attack. Which stops Athletics skill checks that are attacks like Shove and Escape. Everyone ignores this limit on Athletics.

2) When you are working out your unarmed attack modifier to substitute into a Battle Form, you add up your Druids unarmed Proficiency bonus, your Strength or Dexterity modifier, plus your Item bonus. Then later when you are using it in the Battle Form you may apply Circumstance or Status bonuses, plus penalties.

3) You get the +2 status bonus if and only if your unarmed attack modifier is higher.

4) You can’t talk or cast spells in a Battle Form.

5) Nobody knows for sure how to do damage for Battle Forms. It is defined using terms that aren’t used anywhere else. A lot of GMs rule that you only get exactly what is in the spell. Many do it differently. You’ll just have to go with what your GM says. My best guess - and please note the levels of certainty here is deliberate - use the Damage Bonus and the Damage dice in the form; you can’t add in extra dice from Striking Runes on hand wraps, probably your Strength doesn’t add to damage as I think it's included in the standard damage equation in the total known as the Damage Bonus, most likely Additional Damage (Rage, Sneak Attack, Weapon Specialization, Flaming Rune, etc) does add as Paizo have said it's not a bonus but a separate lot of damage. For discussion goto the link. If your GM won’t let you add damage then use runes like Ghost Touch and Crushing on your Handwraps of Mighty Blows - they definitely work

I wait for Paizo to actually clarify numbers 1 and 5. So far they have only addressed number 2.

The document so far


Cleric
The Cleric used to be the reluctant compulsory party member in d20 games whose role it was to heal the party after the fighter. It hasn’t been that way for some time though. In PF2 healing out of combat is cheap thanks to the Treat Wounds ability of the Medicine skill and Continual Recovery. Healing is endless if you have enough 10 minutes breaks to recover. Similarly with a number of focus point spells like Lay on Hands, Goodberry, Rejuvenating Flames, Hymn of Healing, Life Boost, Nature's Bounty. So out of combat healing is not your main purpose, just an option. All clerics get free top level heal spells based on their Charisma bonus, which is the best in combat healing. So with the Medicine skill it has healing well covered.
The cleric is still a full caster. Divine is a good spell list even though it is the least number of different spells. A cleric has two main choices: remain an offensive caster, or become a buffing and utility caster giving it the space to do something else like say martial combat. This is the essence of the two doctrines (Cloistered or War Priest), though it's possible to go further along the spectrum with each one. There are two main builds for each - Strength based or Dexterity based.
A cleric's choice of weapons starts with only simple weapons and their choice of weapons is tied into their deity because of the Deadly Simplicity feat and their increase in proficiency. So simple weapons like Morningstar, Spear, Longspear, Fist, Sickle, Dagger, Light Mace, Dart, Staff are actually good with Deadly Simplicity. Other weapons are possible. Typically choose your favoured weapon, deity and alignment - then find the domain you like best, then check the extra spells that the deity adds to the divine list. Iterate till you are happy. You want at least one domain spell that you are likely to cast in most encounters, or why bother with having it as a Focus spell.

Useful domains for a cloistered cleric: Cold, Darkness, Decay, Dust, Earth, Fire, Indulgence, Magic, Pain, Sorrow, Soul, Sun, Wyrmkin

Useful domains for a battle cleric: Delirium, Destruction, Dreams, Freedom, Nature, Might, Perfection, Protection, Toil, Travel, Trickery, Zeal

Then setting aside the evil deities and checking out the spell lists for something good to add to the divine list I like these Inner Sea deities Erastil, Gorum, Gozreh, Iomedae, Irori, Nethys, Sarenrae. More recommendations here. Be aware that there are things like Splinter Faith that allow you to cherry pick domains.
Emblazon Armament is really only needed to cast a spell with material components, while having your hands full. Typically this is only the 3 action spell like a Summon or a burst Heal. So perhaps you can keep a hand free, or just take the extra actions to stow/draw your weapon as required.

Cloistered Cleric of Gozreh
I thought I’d start with a cleric with some different focus spells. Travel has some really useful nice little movement utilities, plus Cold gives you a reasonable attack spell, plus a nice defensive aura. With Diamond Dust you can easily wear a light giving item and always get the +2 status bonus to AC, then move away to attack.
Like every cleric this one really wants to take at least a 14 Cha if they can. It's often possible with voluntary flaws or the right racial modifiers.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12 Gozreh, Travel
Basic equipment: Studded Leather via Armor Proficiency later Bracers of Armor, Shield and Trident with a returning rune
Class Feats: Level 1: Domain Initiate free, Level 2: Emblazon Armament, later Healing Hands, Level 4: Expanded Domain Initiate for Cold, Level 6:, Level 8: Advanced Domain, Level 10:, Level 12: Domain Focus,
Skills: Stealth, Religion, Medicine

But really the most important point of any caster build is the spells. Ignoring necromantic (many are awesome BTW) and the boring ”remove bad effect X” spells here are some Divine spell suggestions if you have a good spell DC
Cantrips : Daze, Haunting Hymn, Divine Lance, but you should think hard about Adopted Ancestry Human and take Adapted Cantrip to get Electric Arc
1st: Command, Fear, Sanctuary,
2nd: Calm Emotions, Inner Radiance Torrent, Spiritual Weapon if you don’t have a ranged weapon,
3rd: Fear, Slow
4th: Globe of Invulnerability, Spiritual Anamnesis, Divine Wrath potentially party friendly
5th: Shadow Blast,
6th: Repulsion, Spirit Blast,
7th: Sunburst
8th: Canticle of Everlasting Grief
9th: Overwhelming Presence,

Further Spell Suggestions that don’t care much about your spell DC.
Cantrips: Forbidding Ward or Shield, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
1st: Bless, Heal, Summon Lesser Servitor
2nd: Augury, Faerie Fire, Darkness
3rd: Circle of Protection, Heroism
4th: Air Walk, Freedom of Movement, Silence
5th: Drop Dead, Prying Eye, Summon Celestial
6th: True Seeing
7th: Ethereal Jaunt,
8th: Antimagic Field, Discern Location, Divine Aura
9th: Crusade, Foresight

Cloistered Cleric of Sarenrae
With the addition of Burning Hands and Fireball to the Divine spell list, plus two good focus spells and a not terrible weapon there is no doubt that Sarenrae is rightly the most popular deity choice. The Sun domain spells Dazzling Flash, Positive Luminance are awesome but Fire domain is OK too. You can pick up a heavy armour via Champion Dedication and it does work well. Despite the excellent champion’s reaction you get, this cleric won’t be in the front line of combat deliberately, just close by.
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12 Sarenrae, Sun domain
Basic equipment: Full Plate,via Champion Dedication, Scimitar and/or optional Shield, or a LongSpear is nice from the second rank.
Class Feats: Level 1: Domain Initiate free, Level 2: Champion Dedication, later Healing Hands, Level 4:, Level 6: Champion's Reaction for Glimpse of Redemption, Level 8: Advanced Domain, Level 10:, Level 12: Domain Focus,
Skills: Athletics, Religion, Medicine
War Priest of Iomedae
If you just want to get into combat you might as well pick a deity with a good favoured weapon. The spells are good for melee True Strike, Enlarge, Fire Shield, and the domain spells are nice as well Weapon Surge and Zeal for Battle, even if you don’t have the best wisdom score for it. Instead focus on Intimidation and get into battle. With your Shield blocking and healing you should be tough enough. Buy a Sturdy Shield when you can afford it.
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 16 to get extra heals Iomedae , Zeal
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Sturdy Shield and Longsword,
Class Feats: Level 1: Deadly Simplicity free, later take Domain Initiate , Level 2: Emblazon Armament, then Bastion Dedication, later Healing Hands, Level 4:, Level 6:, Level 8: Advanced Domain, Level 10:Quick Shield Block, Level 12: Domain Focus,
Skills: Intimidation, Athletics, Religion, Medicine

War Priest of Irori
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12 to try to keep a Ok Spell DC Irori, Might or
If you just want to get into combat you might as well pick a deity with a good favoured weapon. The spells are good, Jump is useful early, Haste is an important buff that Clerics don’t otherwise get, Stoneskin is just tough, and the domain spells are nice as well. Athletic Rush is a useful bonus to an athletics manoeuvres like Trip or Grapple. Enduring Might is a good defensive reaction. The Fist is simple so it goes up to d6 damage for you.
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 16 to get extra heals Irori, Might
Basic equipment: Breastplate, Sturdy Shield and Fist, Handwraps of Mighty Blows
Class Feats: Level 1: Deadly Simplicity free, later take Domain Initiate Level 2: Emblazon Armament, then Bastion Dedication, later Healing Hands, Level 4:, Level 6:, Level 8: Advanced Domain, Level 10:Quick Shield Block, Level 12: Domain Focus,
Skills: Athletics, Religion, Medicine

War Priest of Erastil
Erastil gives you nice bonuses with archery and works well. Picking up a great little attack spell in True Strike, and a useful barrier in Wall of Thorns will keep you competitive as an archer. Nature domain has a nice defensive ability if you get caught in melee and focus point healing is good at saving those heals for when you need them. Yes technically you don’t have to be with Erastil for these feats to work, and cleric can use a bow like this, but this is on theme.
Str 10 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 12 to try to keep a Ok Spell DC Erastil, Nature
Basic equipment: Studded Leather, LongBow
Class Feats: Level 1: Deadly Simplicity free, later take Domain Initiate for Vibrant Thorns, Level 2: Archer Dedication , Level 4: Point-Blank Shot, Level 6:, Level 8: Advanced Domain for Nature's Bounty, Level 10:, Level 12: Domain Focus,
Skills: Stealth, Intimidation, Religion, Medicine

Todo: a Harm cleric


Continuing on. Looking at the Champion today. This is a fairly simple martial and doesn't require the more complex builds of some classes just to be reasonably functional. So these builds are mostly simple and many have lots of room to do other things.

Champion
A solid defensive martial character. It has the best armour proficiency in the game, it has good shield support. It starts with a good reaction that will trigger often. With the Lay on Hands focus spell you are really a complete package right from level 1. Perhaps it's only downside is that most of this is available to multiclass characters so it’s a common multiclass. Anyway it is very simple to build and hard to stuff up. Because it uses heavy armour it doesn’t have to have Dexterity. It needs at least 12 Charisma to use its divine smite, but more than that is a trade off.
Typically the best Divine Ally to choose at level 3 is Blade Spirit, Shield Ally is nice to take for better blocking, Stead Ally works for more mobility if you take Loyal WarHorse AND Imposing Destrier it’s a free move a turn. But that’s a bad idea as you can get it 6 levels sooner via Cavalier or Beastmaster. Either way a Lance is poor, if you are medium size don’t take it
Often your deity is only important for role playing value, so pick the one that suits.
Players should probably stay clear of the evil champions as they don’t get Lay on Hands. However Aura of Despair is very effective and will make you want to add to your Charisma for the Intimidation skill. Especially if you have friends with Dread Striker.

Paladin
The classic and best champion because the Paladin’s reaction is not just reducing damage to an ally but a counter attack. This champion is moderately effective as a damage dealer. Unfortunately you have to choose between Ranged Reprisal and a mount if you have a melee weapon - they just don’t work together.
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer. Note: Gnome Flickmace is a ridiculously good weapon here (get it via Adopted Ancestry + backstory about a Gnome colleague at the academy + Gnome Weapon Familiarity).
Class Feats: Level 1: Ranged Reprisal, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Second Ally or Quick Block, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit or Shield of Reckoning Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, ….
Optional Level 2: Dual Warrior Dedication your shield is a weapon with a shield boss but there are Champion options that are Ok as well.

Big Stick Paladin
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Maul or Guisarme
Class Feats: Level 1: Ranged Reprisal, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, ….
Optional Level 2: Fighter Dedication or Mauler Dedication, to pick up Power Attack or Knockdown but there are Champion options that are Ok as well.

Throwing Paladin
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate though you are ok in any type, Composite Short Bow, from level 3 you can put a Returning rune with your blade ally so Sturdy Shield and Light Hammer. Curiously this build can handle a mount where for the others it loses out to Ranged Reprisal.
Class Feats: Level 1: Ranged Reprisal, Level 2: Cavalier Dedication, Level 4: Impressive Mount, Level 8: Second Ally, Quick Block, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, Shield of Reckoning Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Acrobatics, Stealth….

Longbow Paladin
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate though you are ok in any type, Composite Short Bow, from level 4 Composite Longbow when the volley penalty is gone.
Class Feats: Level 1: Ranged Reprisal, Level 2: Fighter Dedication , Level 4: Point-Blank Shot, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Acrobatics, Stealth….

Redeemer
The Redeemer has a good area of effect defence from level 11. Better value if the enemy lasts longer. So on balance perhaps better in the boss fights, whereas the Paladin is better against the enemy hordes. Build it the same as the Paladin but reach for your reaction is less of a factor.
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer.
Class Feats: Level 1: Weight of Guilt, Level 2: Cavalier Dedication, Level 4: Impressive Mount, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Quick Block, or Second Ally, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, or Shield of Reckoning, Level 12 Lasting Doubt, Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, ….

Liberator
The Liberator seems weaker than the Redeemer or Paladin but offers more mobility for the team which is useful in its own way. No obvious differences to the build.
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer.
Class Feats: Level 2: Cavalier Dedication, Level 4: Impressive Mount, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Second Ally, Quick Block, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, Shield of Reckoning Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, ….

Tyrant
The Tyrant works with any of the melee builds. Uses Intimidation
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer.
Class Feats: Level 1:Iron Repercussions, Level 4 Aura of Despair, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Second Ally or Quick Block, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, or Shield of Reckoning Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation, …

Desecrator
The Desecrator is probably the toughest character in the game but is not much aid to his party.
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Sturdy Shield and War Hammer.
Class Feats: Level 4 Aura of Despair, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Second Ally or Quick Block, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit or Shield of Reckoning Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation

AntiPaladin
The AntiPaladin doesn’t work well, don't take it. It’s all about self harm, and takes too long to come good.
Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14
Basic equipment: Full Plate, Maul or Guisarme
Class Feats: Level 4 Aura of Despair, Level 6: Attack of Opportunity, Level 8: Second Ally, Level 10: Radiant Blade Spirit, Level 14 Divine Reflexes,
Skills: Athletics, Intimidation

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