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Yes. I figure this was overlooked when quick repair got updated. As it is, I would prepare any other first level spell instead.


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1. Let’s lock up the inflammable goblin with the gunpowder.
Any chemist would agree this is not a good idea.
Goblins must be clearly labeled as dangerous!

2. I’ll leave this here...

Begging the Question at xkcd #1
This is a good discussion. Also, Magical Striker is nifty.

ikarinokami wrote:

the game plays phenomenally. love it

2. there needs to be a section that summarizes what things have changed

A million times, yes. It added about 10 hours for my first character trying to figure out how to do things that didn't need to be done now. Oof.

I confess all the math threads on the forums made me afeared of playing characters that aren't super-optimized. However, playing a fourth-level half-orc cleric of Shelyn with 2 16s, a 14, and a 12 ability scores for a couple of sessions tells me I have not much to worry about. It's fun. It feels like Pathfinder, but it also feels a bit to me more like AD&D what with the silver economy, the swings of the dice, and starting out as a squishy with dreams in a lethal world.

"If the overwhelming response from playtesters was that we we needed to rethink the entire action economy, we would."

Thankfully, the decisions will be based on playtest data, not on the passionate cries of the forums.

Two copies? One read only and one that can be edited.
Or, one read-only copy and a discussion thread for changes...

One hero point to you, O Draco (upon delivery of course)!

I also think it would help if they included a one page sheet to help orientate existing Pathfinder players and GMs to changes. Like, size doesn't matter, and other expectations from building characters in PF1.

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I recently watched this video by Smarter Everyday about learning to ride a bicycle where the handlebars turn the bike opposite to what's usual.

I literally spent about 12 hours creating my first level druid for Doomsday Dawn. This was 12 hours starting with a printout of pages 12-20 of the playtest rules, and then building the character using the book. For me, character creation goes from ability scores all the way through equipment and picking spells (even for prepared casters). This was not me taking 12 hours to read the book. I've only managed to read through various parts of the book after playing DD. I hadn't expected so much relearning, and I expect that there's a correlation between more experience and more relearning...

For part two, I created a cleric and fighter. The fighter took 90 minutes and the cleric took 2.5 hours. I'm glad to hear from Jason's Youtube video that I'm in the ballpark now.

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Kigvan wrote:
Also it seems to me that most people are ignoring generally how easy it is to fix a shield. Takes an hour, but that drops to 10 minutes with Quick Repair (gained by the Warrior background at 1st level), and gets even faster as your crafting skill goes up.

So, this lines up nicely with the Shield CANTRIP. One action gives you a flat bonus to AC. If you use shield block, it gives you a one-time reduction in damage but the spell is dismissed and you can't cast it for 10 minutes.

Draco Bahamut wrote:
I am so proud to be one of the 34 people that decided to drink from the polluted fountain. I wonder if someone that wasn´t a goblin with Eat Anything Ancestry Feat did it.

Our party also had two drinkers, but our goblin didn’t drink!

Thanks! I had trouble figuring out what classes could get it.

My characters are taking Nimble Crawl, so they can get away if they get downed (including Step, which is available if movement speed is 10 or better).

Maybe I missed it, but how can one qualify for the Expeditious Search feat, that is, get Master level perception?

AD&D said metal armor interfered with natural energies. I recommend googling AD&D rules. I forgot some really wacky stuff...

Nice. I'm impressed you all managed to get your characters together in 30 minutes! I got it down to 90 minutes for creating a 4th level character for the second chapter.

One of our players delivered this song before going underground in Lost Star:

The Tale of Kresh (sung to the tune of Gilligan’s Island)

Just sit right back
And you’ll hear a tale,
A tale of the Mudchewer Tribe
That started from Absalom,
My adventure I’ll describe.

The leader, Drakus the Taker,
A hobgoblin slaver cruel and stern,
Ten goblins set out to raid that day
To sack, steal, and burn!
To sack, steal, and burn!

Under Drakus things were getting rough
A coup we goblins planned,
The courage of Talga and Kresh saved us
When things got out of hand,
When things got out of hand.

Drakus murdered most of us
With bludgeon, stab and slash!
First Kegglebob,
Then Ripper, too.
Hellbender, and his wife (Doomscream)
DogScar, Grage, Krort, and Vark—
He killed them all!

So Talga and Kresh we ran away,
And hid for a long, long time.
We had to make the best of things
And agreed to pay for our crime.

The Star of Desna to return to Keleri,
We will do our very best,
Go to the Ashen Ossuary and find it in a chest.
But the Magnimar Sewers are dark and dank,
Not a single luxury,
A very dangerous place,
It’s as primitive as can be.

Please let me join your party, friends!
Let’s kill Drakus and save the day
With all my talents as a rogue
Well, what do you saaaay?
(Kresh smiles toothily and give a nervous goblin giggle)

KingOfAnything wrote:
Yes, it says all that under Skill Increases. Are you not seeing the second paragraph, or do you not think it answers your question?

Thank you, found it. I was leveling a character for Doomsday Dawn, and I saw the table and the various headings after that. I missed the level-by-level breakdown following that (because I was adding a mass of increases and feats at a time). The level breakdown does make sense by introducing new players to concepts gradually.

KingOfAnything wrote:
Freder1ck wrote:
Skill increase. I still haven't found the text for the limits of master and legendary.
That's under Skill Increases in your class advancement table.

Yes, that's where skill increases are listed. What I haven't found is where it says you can't increase a skill to master until 7th level. Or legendary until 15th...

It may be as well that all of those monsters (and Pharasma forbid) undead agree are disrupting the peace of the dead. And a cleric would not go amiss for putting them to rest and looting the denizens. But yeah cleric of Pharasma may not be a solid choice for certain adventures.

So,a goodberry lasts a day and provides healing. With four resonance, that's 4 healings a day for first level characters. I would like cool plant powers too, but may look at multiclassing...

Skill increase. I still haven't found the text for the limits of master and legendary.

Got it, thank you!
Magical +1 Shortbow. 2d6 damage, deadly d10
Normal 2d6, Critical 4d6+d10

So, a short bow with deadly d10 does:
1d6 + Str

Then, on a crit it does

1d6 + str + 1d10 + str

Then as a magic weapon:

2d6 + str

Then, as a magic weapon and on a crit:

4d6 + str*2 + 1d10

I would add that the bard and druid fought at a -2 for most of the fight due to misunderstanding the penalty from being sickened...

Open an incognito tab do that survey monkey does not block you

We just finished it as well and enjoyed it, for the most part. Our player who usually plays a fighter instead played a sorcerer (demonic bloodline) and did not feel very useful.

The other players were goblin rogue, human bard, and gnome druid. I played the druid and prepared 4 goodberries before going in (they last one full day). We fought the initial goblins pretty quickly (but forgot to loot them until after everything else, oops).

Our bard used telekinetic projectile to throw the statue from the fountain, which was something that the book did not anticipate. So our GM adjudicated that the quasits appeared, replaced the statue, and vanished again. Three of us drank the water and two of those got sick.

We then fought Darkus, which was a pretty tough battle. Our GM elected to do a combination of drain and longsword damage instead of just min/maxing for damage. Three of the characters dropped down to zero in the Drakus fight (hero points, yay). My druid took no damage at all. What turned the battle was a crit with a deadly d10 weapon (short bow) that had magic weapon cast upon it.

I like the Holly Bush Feather Token for Leaf Druids.

The cool part will be names: Elmo, Oakmont, Lief, bramble, sticky, and Chad.

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I LOVE it. Clearly, some tweaks are needed, but character creation takes me right back to Keep on the Borderland days. Maybe it's buying everything in silver and starting out with limited items. It also feels like it's encouraging a deeper role playing experience. My son's GMing our game on Saturday, so I'm looking forward to that!

I put this one together. CrOVsNjs/edit?usp=sharing

It's pretty basic, without any specific content for ancestry, class, etc. However, it does check to make sure that you're doing it right.
2 boosts from ancestry (net), 2 from background, 1 from class, and 4 free boosts. Four columns and a total for each row.

We figured it out. New GM for the main sections, and our regular GM and another new GM for some other ones.

Your familiar has either a Speed of 25 feet or a swim speed of 25 feet (choose one when gaining the familiar). It can gain other movement speeds from familiar abilities. (287 for all this).

"Your familiar's saving throw modifiers and AC are equal to your own, before applying any circumstance or conditional bonuses or penalties. Its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers are equal to your level plus your spellcasting ability modifier. If it needs to roll any attack roll or skill check, it uses your level minus two on its modifier. It never benefits from ability modifiers or item bonuses.

Hit Points
Your familiar has 4 points for each of your levels.

For flavor, I looked up Leshy on d20pfsrd.
This looks good, even if it's not full on character generation...

Leaf druid packing a Holly bush feather token... Also, having a familiar with dark Vision and 40' speed.

So disappointed to see spoilers outside the GM forums!

Wait! Holly Bush Feather Token. 5 gp.

Cool. Now, if only leshy familiars could get the ability to grow three fresh berries every day!

Leaf Order: "If you are a druid of the leaf order, your familiar has three powers instead of two."

Does this refer to Familiar and Master Abilities?

If so, does it mean a total of 3 abilities every day from both of the lists (so not 3 from each list)?

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* Your background (or class feature) can give you specific skill as trained.
* Your class says you get x+Int skills (druids get 5+Int).
* Are the class skills in addition to the background skills?
* And also, can you use the x+Int skills to advance skills received as trained from a previous source?

Would it work for one group to have different GMs for different parts of the story?

Also, what part of Doomsday Dawn corresponds to the typical AP Player's Guide? Page 3 or what?


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I saw that about wands also! A bit closer to the Harry Potter (or Ancient Magus Bride) approach. Staves look a lot more interesting than in P1e.

1. Do you currently like pathfinder 1e? (I know it sounds loaded, but please bear with me.)
* yes, sort of. P1e + Tax Exempt / Elephant in the Room.

2. Did you once like pathfinder 1e but now find it troublesome? (feel free to give details.)
* like, still like.

3. Do you like 4th or 5th edition D&D? (Also sounds loaded but again no judgments)
* never played, don't care.
Played AD&D 1e.

4. Which are you looking for class balance, smoother high level play, more options, or even all of those things? (Small edit: these weren't meant to be mutually exclusive-- I just want the gist of what you're looking for, so feel free to add additional thoughts/desires as well.)
* cognitive load of fiddling with P1e's vast array of source material along with the Tax Exempt schtuff.

5. How do you feel about making the game more accessible in general?
* cool.

6. Are you willing to give up on accessibility if you can still gain all of the benefits listed in question 4?
* since I don't own or work for a game company, I'm not terribly interested in accessibility. I just want something that's easier for me to play.

7. Would you be willing to play an alternative rules system then what we have been presented? (A different version of pathfinder 2nd edition if you will).
* I'm not a game designer, so I accept what's given. I may or may not be interested in something completely different, like a possible Angry GM RPG.

8. And if you said yes to the above question what would you like to see in that theoretical game? (Most of you will see what I'm doing here, I'm finding common ground)
* less cognitive load. I create reports for a living, so I can handle a high cognitive load but I also strongly prefer "a single source of truth", if you will.

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Kalindlara wrote:

The baseline for humans etc. is "average" (a somewhat odd term under the circumstances).

"...all the children are above average." (Lake Wobegon)

haha. It would be interesting to know how the fort went without much opportunity for stealth...

As a PC, we just finished this book. Stealth did come in very handy, but we used invisibility and bluff. Our monk went up Karguk's side and set fire to his tent, sowing discord among the orcs. The rest of us went up the other side and freed Umlo and Droja. We ended up meeting at the sewer. We sneaked past the oozes. We had been through a lot at this point so we wanted to find a place to rest. Some of us sneaked past the giant guards with invisibility to the treasure room (without lights). The remaining two bluffed the guards. In the morning, we discovered that we had been sleeping in a room with Manticores, who it turned out had resentment toward giants and orcs. We allied with them to kill the giants. And then they remained there until we spooked the ogres in the courtyard with the ghost; the ogres retreated into the fort, where they were also killed by the manticores (apparently the ogres rolled very poorly). To get rid of the manticores, we cast invisibility on them so they could get out. On their way out, they freed the bears who started gnawing on orcs.

The encounter with G. went well. We started with a bluff, but this collapsed quickly when our tiefling fighter came in enlarged and wearing G's dress. Droja cursed G, and G. fell to hideous laughter and many blows. We have all been investing in stealth. In the future, we may use the locket to borrow stealth and facilitate scouting.

All the original party members died in the first book, so we brought on replacements. The second tiefling (different player) is Oni-Spawn (+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Cha). The armor is +1 mithral full plate with light fortification (that character came in at level 4).

I expect that the Stone Warder sorcerer archetype will be useful for most of the campaign. The stonelord paladin dwarvish archetype looks impressive also.

First party was
Bax, a tiefling Magus (hitting first was great, but getting hit and stomped upon was not);
Reha, a half-elf Oracle; was replaced by her sister, Vinnita an alchemist who left the part at the end of the first book.
Levi, a dwarvish ranger;
Belladonna, a halfling rogue.

Second party:
Bipozar: Gnome draconic stone warder sorcerer (love the long range on acid arrow);
a mysterious woman who looks like a Changeling monk;
Suremoth, a tiefling fighter with OP full plate armor (bought first, then enchanted) and a special warhammer;
Cinderheart, a catfolk who is a swashbuckler with a level of bard.

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