Flynn Walker's page

However, GMs that are aware of the item being reprinted in Ultimate Equipment and changed might feel that it is common sense that the change was made to clarify Rules as Intended and change the ability and may enforce the rules in Ultimate Equipment, but you are not responsible for bringing Ultimate Equipment even if they do rule this way as the additional resources say that you can utilize the Adventurer's Armory for that item.

I think this is the heart of it. I can see why a GM might instinctively want to do this. But, given PFS is RAW to a fault, can they do so?

More specifically for my purposes, can I use a Sawtooth Sabre with Weapon Finesse?

In the Adventurer's Armoury, a Sawtooth Sabre can be treated as a light weapon by a proficient user - it's finesse-able. In the later Ultimate Equipment,a Sawtooth Sabre is only a light weapon for the purpose of Two-Weapon Fighting - that is, not finesse-able.

The Additional Resources page for the Adventurer's Armoury says "Everything in this book is legal for play [except some unrelated things]." RAW, I can't find anything that says I can't show up with my copy of the Adventurer's Armoury and finesse those sabres, but fair to say there's been table variation.

There's some precedent. I understand there's two different "Agile" enchantments in two different sourcebooks, both of which are separately legal if you have that sourcebook. Though I appreciate this is a little different when it's pretty obviously meant to be the same weapon with an update.

(Can I also say it's a bit annoying to buy a sourcebook, see something cool which is explicitly called out as legal, create a character using it and then find out at a table one day your build is invalidated by a later sourcebook you've never heard of. Is a player expected to buy and scour every new release on the off-chance one of their toys has been quietly altered?)

Also, the Aldori Swordlord Fighter Archetype has the ability "Disarming Strike," where a successful disarm also does damage. Makes sense for that to be able to crit.

Right, so basically opinions differ and its one of those "expect table variation" items. Ah well, worth a try.

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer’s arms.

The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

Two questions about this useful little item, somewhat related. I've been using them in PFS and had mixed reactions from GMs, so I'd like some clarity if possible.

Firstly, do the clothes actually change or only appear to change? It seems to me that the word "transform," and the lack of any will save to disbelieve, means that there is an actual physical transformation of the clothes.

Secondly, what are the limits of what the sleeves can do? I've tried to use them to avoid having to buy cold weather gear, for example, and had a GM shoot it down as not working. Taking a more extreme example, could it change clothes into a Swarm Suit? Arguably yes RAW, given that it's a non-magical set of clothing, though some might quibble about the lack of a hat in that particular example.

My suggestion: Be a Ninja. You'll have every social skill you ever need while the ki pool lets you get some mileage from charisma. With weapon focus and weapon finesse both available as ninja ticks/rogue talents, it'll also go some way to making up for lost feats.

I was the ninja. Oh man, that second last encounter...

I'll point out that the Rogue will probably appreciate it if someone's willing to be his flanking buddy, whether that's a summoned creature, animal companion or melee PC.

Ah, my bad. Thank you.

I may be mistaken in my understanding of trained only skills. I thought you needed to have a trained only skill as a class skill before you could put ranks into it. Is it the case that you can't make a check without a rank in the trained only skill, but can put ranks in at any time without restriction?

The Aldori swordlord prestige class has as one of its pre-requisites 3 ranks in knowledge (nobility). You cannot put ranks into a knowledge skill that's not a class skill. Nobility isn't a class skill for Fighter, Monk, Magus or any other Aldori-friendly class and, as far as I can tell,there isn't a trait which makes nobility a class skill.

Is there an easy way to meet the pre-requisites or does every Aldori need to spend a level doing something odd?

After taking another look through, I think I'm on the whole underwhelmed by the prestige class. As Prototype has said, the main breakproint is level 1 - I don't know if there's a real point to more than a one level dip (which, in fairness, I would want to take as soon as possible at level 6). None of the other abilities are equal to bonus feats and the (in my opinion) superior abilities of the fighter archetype.

Were it not for the dex to damage ability, the fairly hefty pre-requisites would make me avoid the prestige class altogether.

On the plus side, at least the non-dex aldoris aren't really missing out on anything.

Having had a look through the PDF, the Aldori Swordlord prestige class is absolutely beautiful for a Dex swordlord. Dex to damage and the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat at first level - worth a dip for that alone.

I haven't thought enough about how it compares to further levels in the archetype though, or how it would stack up for a Str-focused build.

Thoughts?

What if a magus were to cast empty-handed, take a 5 foot step, quickdraw his greatsword and then attack?

WOW I really like the maneuver master build. Put in Blue in the guide, and added a build that uses it to the list at the end. The real advantage here isn't the just the extra disarm attempt, though that alone would rate it blue. It's that with the ability to pick up improved disarm sans prereqs, you've eliminated a feat tax and made INT a dump stat again.

The build I added showcases a Gladiator-based swordlord: the points from dumping INT go into Charisma, and we pick up Osyluth's Guile for even higher AC when using steel net. This build is a beast at performance combat. I like the build so much I think I'll use it as my backup character for Kingmaker!

Flynn Walker, Thank you for sharing the build! I'm super happy.

You're welcome. I know that I'm not nearly making the most out of it with what I'm doing (finesse and duelist getting in the way) so I'm interested to see where people go with it.

Maybe by using the "flat-footed" part of the feat to your advantage and going with rogue/ninja/vivisectionist? If you could reliably disarm enemies and get sneak attack damage the lack of enhancements on your weapons hopefully wouldn't hurt you too much.

I should also point out that the Cad fighter archetype may also be helpful: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fig hter-archetypes/cad

Yes its usable at low-level because of dual wield, but if your not dual-wielding the entire concept of Full Attack at low-level makes absolutely no sense

It's not so much that it makes no sense, just that without something like duel-wielding or flurry of blows there's no reason not to just use a standard action rather than a full attack action.

If, however, you get +1 AC from the Aldori ability, that's a good enough reason to use a full attack action.

Flynn Walker wrote:

The only problem with power attack is that using two hands means I lose most of the benefits of the Aldori Swordlord class. Power attack one handed would (at +8 BAB, as I'm not going to get to +12 due to my monk dip) be at -2 for +4. Decent, but precise strike is slightly better.

Nothing to say I can't take power attack with precise strike, though. I might get an odd look from my GM but RAW I don't think it's ruled out.

Exactly.

I pointed out the Power attack option if you felt the lack of feats. A BAB of 8 one handed would be -3/+6. (I think you meant 8th level, but I figured I'd ask.) It was more something to think about, as it would give you that bonus damage earlier than the Duelist.

Yeah, my bad. My maths failed me there...

The only feat I could possibly drop is the Equipment trick, and I'm loathe to do that. There's just something incredibly cool about being able to flip an enemy's sword out of their hand and into my scabbard.

I guess this is one of the reasons finesse and duelist are considered a trap. They're very feat intensive.

I usually GM, but one of my players has the Kingmaker AP and I am hoping he steps up to run it as I would love the opportunity to play a Sword lord and that would be a great setting for it.

That would fit quite nicely. Don't forget to post your build if you do!

Hmm, I was about to say "So it does", but I don't really know because it replaces different things to that of the Bladebound, but I didn't think two Archetypes could share the same levels?

However, it only really truly comes into effect from level 13 onwards and this Magus build I've made only goes up to level 12.

I guess if they don't replace the same thing, they really do stack? If so, that's awesome. I just read up on the abilities and yes it sacrifices Magus Arcana and a Spell Slot of each level, but it's worth it for what it gives you!

Yepp, as long as they don't conflict in what they replace it's all legal. Kensei and Bladebound actually go together pretty well in terms of flavour, and in terms of the feats, proficiencies and abilities it gives you it seems to fit in pretty well with what you want here.

Just remember that Kensei does have diminished spellcasting as well as losing spell recall, so it's not all perfect. But fun. Definitely fun.

Instead of going into Duelist. You could pick up Power Attack with your Strength at 13. At Level 8, that would be +6 to damage with a -3 to hit. You could then go through The Aldori Sword Fighter tree and pick up the extra feats.

The only problem with power attack is that using two hands means I lose most of the benefits of the Aldori Swordlord class. Power attack one handed would (at +8 BAB, as I'm not going to get to +12 due to my monk dip) be at -2 for +4. Decent, but precise strike is slightly better.

Nothing to say I can't take power attack with precise strike, though. I might get an odd look from my GM but RAW I don't think it's ruled out.

It looks fun.

My thoughts exactly. The Aldori is just so damned stylish.

I might be a little bit late in throwing this out there, but I'm fairly certain the Bladebound and Kensei magus archetypes stack, and Kensei gives you a free exotic weapon proficiency at first level.

A Kensei magus gives up a fair bit of the spellcasting though, so it might not be the best fit in that regard. Still, the more martial aspect does work nicely if what you want to do is swing a bastard sword around.

This is my Aldori Swordlord build I'm running through PFS at the moment. I've fallen into most of your "traps" (finesse, aldori dueling mastery, duelist) but I think I've managed to do so in a not-completely-horrible way.

Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12
Human

Lvl 1 Aldori Swordlord - Exotic Weapon proficiency, Weapon finesse, weapon focus
Lvl 2 Aldori Swordlord - Quick draw, Bravery

Lvl 3 Maneuver Master - Improved Disarm, Equipment trick: Combat Scabbard, Flurry of maneuvers, Stunning fist, Improved unarmed strike

Lvl 4 Aldori Swordlord - Defensive Parry +1

Lvl 5 Aldori Swordlord - Dodge, Crane Style

Lvl 6 Aldori Swordlord - Disarming Strike, Weapon training +1

Lvl 7 Aldori Swordlord - Crane Wing, Aldori Dueling Mastery

Lvl 8 Aldori Swordlord - Steel Net, Defensive Parry +2

Lvl 9 Duelist - Mobility, Canny defence +1, Precise strike +1

Lvl 10 Duelist - Canny defence +2, Precise strike +2, Parry, Improved reaction

Lvl 11 Duelist - Crane riposte, Canny defence +3, Precise strike +3, Enhanced mobility

Lvl 12 Duelist - Combat reflexes, Grace, Canny defence +4, Precise strike +4

Going with maneuver master rather than master of many styles does delay crane wing by a few levels but I think the benefits of a free disarm at the end of a full attack and getting improved disarm without having to get combat expertise make it worth it. Not having combat expertise means I don't go down the path of spring attack and whirlwind attack, but I don't have the feats to do so anyway.

Getting Aldori Dueling Mastery is a necessity for the duelist build, but it'd be a half decent feat without all the pre-requisites and I'm getting them all anyway.

As for going into Duelist for the last few levels, even that I don't think is completely horrible. As this is for PFS and I'm only losing two feats. I think that's outweighed by what the Duelist gets, in particular +4 AC and +4 damage which, as I read precise strike, would apply on a disarming strike as well.

I can certainly see ways I could optimise this but it has so far been fun to play and I think it's going to have an awful lot of style to it.

Thoughts?

For a slightly different Monk dip the Maneuver Master is worth a look. For one, you can take Improved Disarm without having to take Combat Expertise first. Secondly, Flurry of Maneuvers lets you add a free disarm attempt at the end of a full attack action - this would work beautifully with the Aldori's Disarming Strike. And, of course, there's still all the little sweeteners like class skills and Improved Unarmed Strike.

I don't know that it's better than the Master of Many Styles, but it's another route and you can still pick up Crane Style and Crane Wing along the way, albeit at later levels.

Awesome read, and some interesting ideas. I'd very much like to see sample builds in the guide.

Doesn't seem like you need the advice anymore, but I'll throw this out for the benefit of future Pathfinders wandering into this thread.

If you were to go with the Aldori duelling sword, the Aldori Duelling Mastery feat would be perfect for you as it adds +2 AC as a shield bonus, with a bonus +2 initiative as well.

I'm curious, what do people think of a Kensei Magus / Duelist? Arguably the two Canny Defence abilities stack and they're fairly complementary in that they both require a high dex and int.

Furthermore, what's the opinion on a duelist based on the Aldori Dueling Sword? I could also see that working with a Kensei due to the bonus exotic weapon proficiency the archetype gets.

If you're not aiming at Dervish Dance, you don't need to pick up Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar) as a prerequisite. Could be avoided if you're willing to dip a level in fighter or paladin, though that leads to slightly different problems.

In terms of getting an agile weapon, someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's 8,000 GP to get a +1 Agile weapon (because it needs to be +1 before you add the agile enhancement). Whether that's worth two feats, or a feat and a dip, really depends what you want to do with your character.

The other thing to look at is the agile enhancement. It lets you add dex to damage instead of str, and for the cost of a +1 enhancement you save two feats.

An Oracle of Lore can use CHA for AC and reflex saves at Lvl 1. Not a complete change but it seems like a dip would stack well with Bard, Paladin or Sorcerer.

No, just the 7hp, sadly. It says that you gain the amount for all levels in that class. It's definitely meant to refer to the "Hit points gained per level" column, though it could be clearer...

If that weren't the case, you'd be gaining 12hp every level.

Hmmm... I think I agree that the illusion shouldn't have stopped the gaze. If illusions can't have physical effects (at least, at this level) then the blindfold would no more stop the light than an illusory falling whale would crush the party.

I think it might actually stop the party perceiving the light, so it would appear as darkness to them, but the physical effects of the light are still there.

Starglim - I can't help but agree. Every time I've seen this scenario played that blindheim has been the biggest challenge. This time it managed to end up in the hallway between the gnome rogue and the rest of the party, meaning they couldn't flee without leaving the rogue there to die. That nearly ended badly.

Hey folks,

In a certain PFS scenario I was GMing the other day the party had something of a disagreement with a blindheim. After half the party had failed their saves against its blinding gaze, the Bard used silent image to create a blindfold over the blindheim to prevent further blindness.

I allowed it at the time, though the blindheim made its save and could still see. My question is how would an illusion actually work with a light source like that? Would the light still shine through or would the party, without making a save to disbelief, not see the light at all?

Interesting. I'd approached it slightly differently but I can see the appeal of a reach weapon, particularly paired with combat reflexes. My only issue is that weapon finesse wouldn't apply and I'd be relying on my lowly strength quite a lot. Particularly if I'm trying to hit with Power Attack as well.

Why would I need to wait until level 3 for Dervish Dance to kick in? I thought I only needed 2 ranks of Perform so I could have it by second level...?

You can get Acrobatics as a class skill with the Captain's Blade trait from the Andoran faction to avoid a dip.

Is there any chance you would go archer? You can still be quite acrobatic, and we can even try to save you a feat for weapon finesse. (Although a paladin's BAB and smite evil should take care of hitting the opponent, strength or no)

That would be very useful, thanks. Where would I find that trait?

As for the archer, I have nothing against archers in general and intend to play one at some point or another, but not this character. I'm picturing more of a dancer-type fighter than an archer. It was one of the reasons I was considering Monk or Dervish Dancer levels.

I think you are unable to use acrobatics if your movement is penalized for armor. Dwarves thusly become the best alternative (move never penalized by armor), followed by 3 levels of fighter & a sash of the war champion. The last thing I would want is a light armored paladin.

My understanding is that you can't use acrobatics while wearing medium or heavy armour, which does basically amount to the same thing. I was hoping that by including a decent dex (+3 or +4) with a chain shirt (+4) and maybe a buckley (+1) I'd still be able to have a decent AC while tumbling around.

Hey all,

Trying to put together an agile and acrobatic, dex-based paladin for PFS. Various roleplay reasons for it, but mostly I just really like the idea and want to see what I can do with it.

A few questions:

1. What's the best way to get acrobatics as a class skill? I'm toying with a dip as either a Bard (dancing dervish) or Monk (Flowing Monk), which also have the advantage of fitting the character concept I have in mind. That said, if I could find a trait or something somewhere which let me get away with straight Paladin I'd consider it.

2. Secondly, any general advice (beyond "Don't do it!")?

Thanks, and look forward to your replies.