Limits of Sleeves of Many Garments


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Sleeves of Many Garments wrote:

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer’s arms.

The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

Two questions about this useful little item, somewhat related. I've been using them in PFS and had mixed reactions from GMs, so I'd like some clarity if possible.

Firstly, do the clothes actually change or only appear to change? It seems to me that the word "transform," and the lack of any will save to disbelieve, means that there is an actual physical transformation of the clothes.

Secondly, what are the limits of what the sleeves can do? I've tried to use them to avoid having to buy cold weather gear, for example, and had a GM shoot it down as not working. Taking a more extreme example, could it change clothes into a Swarm Suit? Arguably yes RAW, given that it's a non-magical set of clothing, though some might quibble about the lack of a hat in that particular example.

Shadow Lodge

At the table's I've been on they've been used as cold and warm weather gear and swarm suits.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PRD wrote:

Sleeves of Many Garments

Price 200 gp; Aura faint illusion; CL 1st; Weight 1 lb.

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer's arms. The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other nonmagical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

Construction Requirements
Cost 100 gp
Craft Wondrous Item, disguise self

Two counts of it being an illusion against a text that seem to imply that it is a transmutation.

Seeing the cost of the item I would use the low power interpretation and consider it an illusion.


Don't forget how "non-magical" is completely normal for a physical change, but pointless and non-standard for an illusion.

It really could stand to be rewritten.

Diego Rossi wrote:


Seeing the cost of the item I would use the low power interpretation and consider it an illusion.

While I agree with the aura and spell requirement saying illusion, magic items that mimic mundane ones (but have some advantage like weight or reusability) are generally pretty cheap, and mundane clothing only costs over 20 GP when it is ornamental (outside of one obscure item).

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
deuxhero wrote:

Don't forget how "non-magical" is completely normal for a physical change, but pointless and non-standard for an illusion.

It really could stand to be rewritten.

Diego Rossi wrote:


Seeing the cost of the item I would use the low power interpretation and consider it an illusion.
While I agree with the aura and spell requirement saying illusion, magic items that mimic mundane ones (but have some advantage like weight or reusability) are generally pretty cheap, and mundane clothing only costs over 20 GP when it is ornamental (outside of one obscure item).

The item can mimic a royal outfit worth 200 gp, the same price of the item. Or a masterwork set of clothes, giving a +2 to an appropriate skill. At 200 gp it is grossly underpriced if it is a transmutation effect.


I would say it turns (transforms) into something that loos like the stuff you want it to look like but it doesn't give any modifiers.
So you could look like wearing a swarmsuit without any possibility of being disbelieved but it doesn't protect like one. Wrong kind of fabric for example.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

The problem here is the wording, transforms, versus the spell description used.

I would err on the side of transforms, though Diego raises up a great argument compare the effects and wording of this ability to the hat of disguise

This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, or other headwear.

Which specifically links back to the disguise self spell, which says:

You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.

The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.

Now while the item uses that spell it specifically doesn't reference it like the hat. This may suggest that in this case it might require the spell to be used it doesn't indicate what actually happens, its magic after all.

Compare it as well to the greater hat

Hat of Disguise, Greater

Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot head; Price 12,000 gp; Weight — lbs.

DESCRIPTION

Like a hat of disguise, this garment allows its wearer to alter her appearance. It functions as an alter self spell (as opposed to disguise self). The hat becomes a part of the disguise and can be a hat, a helmet, a headscarf, and so forth.

Which still how an aura of illusion but uses a different spell, alter self. It may be that they just chose to use disguise self because there isn't any other spell that can change your clothing.

Of course the other possibility is the writer of the greater hat missed something.

As a PFS GM I would have ruled that you could use it to transform physically into anything on the clothing table in the main book or any book you provided that showed the item specifically as clothing.

To somewhat refute my own argument compare it to a similarly priced Traveler's Any-Tool, which uses a much higher spell, has the transmutation aura and costs about the same. Given the similarly in cost though I still stand by my rulings until told otherwise.

Liberty's Edge

Right, so basically opinions differ and its one of those "expect table variation" items. Ah well, worth a try.


Flynn Walker wrote:
Sleeves of Many Garments wrote:

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer’s arms.

The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other non-magical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

Two questions about this useful little item, somewhat related. I've been using them in PFS and had mixed reactions from GMs, so I'd like some clarity if possible.

Firstly, do the clothes actually change or only appear to change? It seems to me that the word "transform," and the lack of any will save to disbelieve, means that there is an actual physical transformation of the clothes.

Secondly, what are the limits of what the sleeves can do? I've tried to use them to avoid having to buy cold weather gear, for example, and had a GM shoot it down as not working. Taking a more extreme example, could it change clothes into a Swarm Suit? Arguably yes RAW, given that it's a non-magical set of clothing, though some might quibble about the lack of a hat in that particular example.

The description of this magic item is quite clear, they "transform THE APPEARANCE of her current garments" - so its the appearance of the wearers garments (note plural) that changes. That is why the aura is faint illusion and the spell to create them is an illusion spell (disguise self). So the wearers garments do not change or transform, just the appearance of those garments - and you can change the appearance of all your "garments" - ie your whole outfit to the extent its clothing.


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