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I am trying to cogitate a build for a mathemagician. I am wedded to nothing yet. Probably won't use the sacred geometry feat. I recognize that it probably has to be mostly fluff. So far bard or a sorcerer focusing on buffs and number oriented spells, but I also think it should probably be int-based.

Show me what you got!

I get one spell. Void-touched wildblooded domain of starsoul. Normally it'd be stinking cloud, but we expect to face a lot of undead in our upcoming dungeon.

My second level spells are Glitterdust, Create Pit, Burning Arc, and Mirror Image (one came from a page of spell knowledge). I have spell focus conjuration and evocation (in addition to cwi and toughness) at 7 I plan to take augment summons and, probably SM III.

So since I think I have to wait to get stinking cloud, my options are spiked pit (possibly swapping out create pit), aqueous orb (the frontrunner), fireball, or fly. (I like ice spears but it doesn't become as useful as spiked pit until 8th level when you get two spears).

Anything I am missing? Any thoughts on other good spells against the undead. Passing on haste because we have a bard and I don't want my only third level spell to be a soon-redundant buff, but maybe.

I tend towards bf control and SoS, the remainder of the party is a bard, ranger, and melee-focused alchemist.


"You purge impure thoughts from the target’s mind and fill him with exultant relief at the forgiveness of his sins. Absolution ends all charm or compulsion effects affecting the target (including harmless compulsions, such as heroism) as per break enchantment. If the target was forced to perform any actions contrary to his alignment, monk vows, paladin oath, or similar code of conduct by that charm or compulsion effect, that action doesn’t cause him to lose access to class abilities, including divine spellcasting."

Does this imply that actions taken while under mind control can make one evil. Alignment is already terrible. This implication is mystifying.


The spell, in addition to restraining you, all the target to "attempt an additional saving throw against a magical effect that makes it confused, a curse, a fear effect, or a madness. The caster chooses which effect the target gets an extra save against. This extra save applies to only effects with durations of 10 minutes per level or less, and it doesn’t apply to instantaneous effects. This extra save occurs only once per casting of straitjacket."

If you have a strong will save this can be a nice contingency to have given the variety of effects it can provide a new save on. Thoughts? Better options for contingency at the mid high levels?

So there are a lot of cool, flavorful feats that are hard to take, especially if a class is feat-starved. What are the downsides, other than imprecision, of having feats ranked as ranging from 1 through 3 in terms of power. Each class would get feat points by level the equivalent roughly 3 times what their class normally gets.

I think the difficult part here would be actually assessing the cost of each feat, but it would allow for more flexible and interesting builds without imbalancing the system too much.

Edit: Self-flag to move to homebrew.

So level 13 conjuration teleporter we're about to go on our first underwater adventure. Our fighter has great swim, necklace of adaptation, and darkvision. Neither our bard or swashbuckler have any swim skills, so I will prepare a ride the waves for both of them and darkvision.

We were given the ioun stone that lets us breathe underwater, so it seems like a waste to use another ride the waves on myself, so I will concentrate on swimming when possible, teleporting when necessary, and can always give myself a swim speed in a pinch. (And a safe interdimensional space for sleep as necessary)

I have plenty of aquatic SM spells, strong conjuration bf control, usable damage spells, and plenty of empty slots to prepare. Any suggestions for a caster with 7th level spells for an under the sea adventure (my goal is not to directly skip the adventure, a colossal dire shark is present enough for me). But any suggestions about spells that might be useful would be appreciated.

1. What kind of damage is done by the arcane cannon? Bludgeoning? Is it untyped damage?

2. Does DR apply to damage from arcane cannon? SR does not.

3. Bonus question: Since you are conjuring an actual item that ignores spell resistance why is this a transmutation, rather than a conjuration spell?

We're at level 3 now. I am human, but carry a dwarven longhammer and a cold iron spear. My feats are improved initiative, combat reflexes, and power attack. Right now my plan is Craft Arms and Armor at five (our party wizard has CWI). I will take Sacred Summons and Divine Interference eventually. Is SF (conjuration), Augment, Superior and Summon Good Monster the way to go (GM has ruled Summon Good Monster will give me access to the monsters that comport my LG alignment). Or is better to skip on the augment and superior line and save three feats for something else.

If so any thoughts.

My STR and WIS are 18; I am thinking of going for a WIS headband first to grab the extra spell; though at this level it's mostly been buff and melee. My character has access to the travel, caves, and (as a possibly loaded boon) the deception domain. Any thoughts on the build direction. Go for magic weapon first or wait until I get the crafting feat or WIS headband and cloak of resistance. Thanks in advance.

A staff which allows a caster to wield at least three metamagic rods at once. The rods have to be crafting or purchased separately; it mere allows them to be wielded simultaneously, no other benefits.

So how would you price this item. I don't believe there are comparable wondrous items. It's obviously useful, but it's only enhances the extreme power of the rods themselves. There are also ways to swap rods out pretty conveniently. So how much would you price such an item, and how much additional would you charge for extra rod slots?

I wanted a good INT based class for Reign of Winter and am considering an investigator or empiricist. Would this make sense for the AP. Does anybody know of particular good guide to the class or have any advice on builds? Thanks.

I am about to run the party through a jungle owned by a mad scientist. I want to expose them to animals who have been "experimented" on. Any thoughts on a radiation template. I know there is radiation damage, but I am talking about your fictional irradiated monster.

I am thinking +4 STR, +4 CHA, possibly an aura, but I am not sure what else to do with this. I am fine with a template that would add 1 to 3 CR, but I don't need complete precision. Clever or interesting ideas appreciated.

I'd like to think of a neat way of allowing players to take certain spells at first level and having it increase its effect by level. For instance clouds and pits. There are several fun cloud and pit spells at each level. My thought is that if taken at first level, you gain the next automatically at the next level (and I will homebrew something at the levels that don't have such spells).

I could see where I would limit this where conjurers could only get the full set of conjuration spells like those above. Each school may take its set. Universalist can take say any from two schools, maybe three, making it a more viable option. Sorcerers would have leveled spells associated with its bloodline.

Can this be done with divine casters? Oracle certainly. I think it would have to be allow clerical domains to be associated with certain arcane options, but obviously it wouldn't make sense with clerics unless the spells come already prepared every day. I am not sure how i would level most divine spells. You could provide the condition effect removal spells and cure spells early enough, but there aren't a ton of options.

Given that action economy will still be action economy (and the existence of heighten spell) I don't think this is likely to break a game, but I'd certainly like to hear of downsides. Obviously I'd have to craft any homebrewed spells careful. Like what in the world would a level 9 cloud be? Army runs away? Any thoughts on this concept? Any spells you'd recommend be leveled in this manner? Thanks in advance. Look forward to good conversation.

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Is there anything unique about a shield of force other than it can provide +2 AC without problem for arcane caster and not waste a hand too much because it is activated as a free action?

I get the value of this, and that it stacks nicely with other AC bonuses, but I was just checking if had extra effects based on being a force shield?

Understanding that it also prevents their line of sight from you it keeps you from targeting them. Are the ancillary effects of these spells; and the time it gives you to buff and tactical position the party is worth the risk of not being able to see what the enemies are up to all? After all the could probably teleport away.

Playing a sorcerer who is also a worshipper of Desna. He has the Starsoul bloodline and has I suspect a weird friendly guy who is human but is a bit of weird star child.

The GM offered to let me replace the Starsoul spell lists with any of Desna's domains. I think this is a no-brainer (especially since the only divine caster in our party is a ranger; we have a bard and alchemist as well). The only two spells I am sad to lose are glitterdust and reverse gravity; but I can just take them when the time comes anyway.

I am choosing between liberation, which contains and bunch status effect removal spells, greater dispel magic, freedom of movement, and generally has a lot of utility. The downside is I will often have tough action economy choses to make as the controller (though if I summon or use conjurations or other spells that last and utilize move action spells it will be great to have these spells.

The other option is good which also has a ton of cleric only spells and they are offensively strong against evil creatures, which in an AP is a frequent occurrence. But as an arcane caster there are plenty of great offensive options available.

I don't think any of her other domains are worth it. But I'd be happy to hear any all thoughts on this decision. Thanks.

Character is a devout worshipper of Desna. I thought it'd be interesting to take a divine class. I considered oracle as well. But I can't convince myself to do it.

Two levels of paladin would be quite flavorful. Divine Grace would be awesome, but anytime I consider it I find it very hard to imagine losing the spell levels. I will soon have 23 CHA so the divine grace bonus would be substantial, a nice boost to fort save, the BAB would help with spells which require to hit.

But I just can't see this being worth it. I can still play a devout supporter of desna without this, but it's appealing; just not sure I need the mechanics for the character to succeed. He is a starsoul sorcerer, so the whole theme fits nicely. Any thoughts?

We are middle of a very tough dungeon. There have been close to 6 combats thus far and we haven't gone downstairs...

We decided not to rest, because the GM raised us to level 4 upon winning a particularly difficult encounter. So as a void sorcerer I get one new second level spell (the GM said he'd be fine if I took Glitterdust and a different 2nd level spell as my bloodline spell.

Our party is a ranger, melee alchemist, bard, and sorcerer (me).

Given our situation, I think I have to go offense, so mirror image, false life, and invisibility are out for now.

I have another character who is the great pit creator, so I don't think I will take a pit spell, at least for a while.

So my considerations are: SM II, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Twisted Space, or Web.

I have no spell focus feats. My first level spells are glue seal, ear-piercing scream, and color spray. (I think I am going to swap out color spray for mage armor and with my FCB grab either snowball or protection from evil.)

Any advice on that one second level spell, with the possibility that it'll be my only fire power for 1-3 combats, would be appreciated.

My GM may be amenable to allowing me to take either Sidestep Secret or Nature's Whispers as one of my revelations? Is that work trading off the feats?

Starsoul bloodline, with noble scion of war. CHA: 20, probably 22 soon. DEX: 10 Feats: Noble Scion of War, Toughness, and CWI unless I VMC.

The advantages of the VMC is great defensively, but I wonder if I might be better with metamagic, spell focus (conj), augment summoms, etc.

I kind of want to do this. I haven't quite figured out the storyline; maybe it is apprentices on the way to say the life of a dying Santa. Anyway, they shirk and have to fight their way to whatever malady they have.

I think I can refluff some creatures as part of the body chemistry and virus; I am not sure what levels I'd run; probably 3-7, or maybe a quick shot from 5-7. I just thought I'd see what other ideas there are.

We are starting RotRL as a party of a cleric (who channels negative and plans to control undead), a bard, a ranger, and I am a sorcerer. Human found on mysterious island. Starchild/Lovecraftian feel with some seriousness and no real sense of boundaries. Worships Desna in a deeply personal way.

I think I should be as versatile as possible, able to do damage and bf control. Hard to do a ton of utility, but perhaps with scrolls and wands eventual.

Stats: STR: 7; DEX: 10; CON: 12; WIS: 10; CHA: 20

Right now I am aberrant bloodline for flavor; and a pretty solid spellist. Any other bloodlines that people suggest; that would be a strong fit in RotRL?

Let's say a black market dealer were offering a single feat for sale how much should it cost?

I am also interested if feats could be bought individuals how much each particular feat would cost. But that's academic; I am more interested in how much people would charge for a single feat to be bought in game.

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It always seems like they have nothing but fashion from two years ago or slightly frayed clothing. Also there's always a line for the fitting room.

Generally speaking I love the Paizo chatboards; and I don't know if the firm has the technical support to handle this, but there are a couple of updates which I think would make the community a lot more useful:

1) Nested conversations within threads. Often side discussions take threads off-track but are still at least semi-relevant to the thread's topic. If replies were nested, it would make the community discussions much more direct and accessible;

2) It would be nice if up and down votes, similar to reddit, could be implemented on the thread level with the goal of avoid the 9 millionth thread on rogue's sucking, the caster-martial disparity, etc. Just not engaging doesn't help because the prevalence of these insanely repetitive threads which simply rehash the same arguments and assertion end up burying new topics of discussion. I am not sure if up/down voting is necessarily the solution to this, but I cannot think of a better one. I am interested to hear what the community at large has to say.

It is unique and thematic talent. If feels like one you should treat like a ranged weapon so you can build a strong, but not overpowered, character with it. I don't think the ranged line would break this feature in anyway, feel free to point me in the direction of a feat I am not thinking of which might.

Also thematically, it feels as if this is a particular power, but a bit one note. If it could develop in interesting ways, the way the ranged weapons feats do for archers, it would feel like a stand on its own class.

How do you see it? At first I pictured a rubber person. But able to operate underwater normally? I am not quite sure how I see the fluff of the spell. Any concepts?

I assume Freedom of Movement does not prevent a entrapping a character that has had FoM in a Wall of Stone? But it does prevent Chains of Light? No entanglement either? Does Icy Prison work?

The text: This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.


Level 10 conjurer. Focuses heavily on bf control; drops damage as necessary. Rod of persistent lesser. Choosing among dazing, heighten, and quicken. On one hand, quicken will only apply to first level spells, how many fifth level spots will I spend on quickened grease? On the other hand, dazing really doesn't standout as great until fireball and sixth level slots.

Any thoughts? Any other metamagic feats to consider? I have craft wonderous, we don't have enough downtime to make a second crafting feat viable; I considered craft rod.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Under consideration:

Dazing spell, can start with snapdragon fireworks and flaming sphere, until I finally get to fireball. It's a little bit annoying for the game; in fact GM banned the rod, but is permitting the feat. He focuses on BF control, this can be very useful, but maybe I should skip something so likely to annoy.

Quicken spell, a bit early, but quickened true strike follow by black tentacle or telekinesis for CMB (or similar spells like hydraulic torrent). But really quickened mirror image and create pit seem much more useful, but won't come online for a number of levels.

Persistent spell, I have a rod of lesser, but I can never use too many persistent spells.

Other thoughts?

I have Craft Wonderous Item, and given the limited downtime in our game I don't see the value in taking another crafting feat; though craft rod is tempting.


I love the flavor of this, so I think I am going to try to work this into a game I am GMing. I was hoping this could be a thread where we discuss some ideas for creating higher levels versions of certain spells. To some extent PF already has this built in. For instance the charm/dominate line of spells easily fits this category. As do the various pits; although we could use some higher level pits to use on flying creatures, for instance. Fireball's damage increases by caster level, but increasing spell slot should allow for additional effects. Perhaps a sixth level version can hit up to half your level of targeted creatures in a medium range, rather than an AoE, at your discretion.

So here's my first entry:

4: Black Tentacles

5: Cerebral Tentacles

Like black tentacles, but adds caster's INT to CMB.

6a: Poisonous Tenatcles

Like cerebral tentacle, but on a successful grapple, does poison damage with a Fort save to resist.

6b: Grasping Teeth

Like cerebral tentacles but barbed with 15 ft reach, the barbs do additional damage. May pin already grappled creatures.

7: Tentacle Swamp

Like cerebral tentacles, but raised in a cloud operating as a Stinking Cloud with the save DC equal to Tentacle Swamps. May pin already grappled creature.

8: Cursed Tentacles

Like cerebral tentacle, but upon grappling tentacles grant 1d4 negative levels, as enervation. And with every further continued grapple the level damage is applied again.

9: Dark Tapestry Tentacles

Like cerebral tentacles. At caster's will the entirety of Dark Tapestry Tentacles, and any creatures it is grappling, to the Dark Tapestry or Dominion of the Black.

Thoughts? Other ideas along this line with other spells? I had several other iterations of black tentacles. It was hard limiting it to just one at certain levels.

I, for one, believe it's too early to even be discussing Pathfinder 4.0.

What is the mechanic for dominating a person already dominated? Does the most recent spell control. Should there be an opposed caster level check? Should the recipient of both simple breakdown from total cognitive dissonance. It seems unclear.

It happens we have a great rogue in our party, who's a real risk taker, but he has a zero will save, so I have a feeling he's going to be turned against us a alot. Tonight I turned him into a tortoise, but it would be nice to be able to dominate him back; I just can't quite figure out the dynamic.

So I am playing a reach cleric with the domains of travel and madness. My god is unknown as part of the backstory, the diety's favored weapon is the flying blade, the +2 on attacks of opportunity makes it pretty ideal for a cleric of this type. My feats thus far are improved initiative and combat reflexes. He has both high STR and WIS, which makes him very capable of sitting in the middle of battle, grabbing 3 attacks of opportunity, and casting.

So a couple of questions for the community at large. Would a dip into fighter at level 6 be worth it for heavy armor proficiency, bow proficiency, and power attack? Is it worth giving up a level of caster progression; my goal is to be effective at both casting and fighting, and I concentrate mostly on bf control, buffing, and debuffing. It has proven very effective thus far, but there are lots of benefits and tradeoffs here (for instance delay the level 8 travel domain ability, which this character is going to use to it's advantage).

Is heavy armor worth the tradeoff? Right now he has a 20/21 AC going into level 4 and I plan on getting mithral armor as I want to get the max out of a decent DEX. Any other thoughts on a character of this sort? He plans on summoning once he can take sacred summons, but that might be a little while given how feat starved he is. I look forward to any thoughts y'all might have.

If one were to cast and land Accursed Glare on a target in the first round, which forces the target to roll twice and take the lower result, does a persistent spell require the double-roll twice? I would assume so, as the duration is day per level, but I wanted to see what the consensus is.

Glitterdust allows a save on the targeted creature's turn. Does persistent glitterdust remain persistent until it ends? Again I would think so, but I'd be interested in find out if not true (and why, I suppose).

Finally, aqueous orb requires two Ref saves, baleful polymorph a will and fort, I would imagine the persistent version of these is persistent for both.

Anyway, I am interesting in some perspectives on this. Thanks in advance.

So here's my thinking. I want to have a class that simply has a lot more WBL. Akin to an aristocrat but two traits: 1) Ridiculously wealthy: Has access to both a lot more money and a full market (subject to generally banned items); 2) Misery: Will share neither his gear, money, or market with his companions.

The idea is a smart adventurer who just has really great gear, but is otherwise nothing special. The class would have a few social powers, but mostly aristocracy-related. Is there a way this would break the game. Obviously I haven't decide on the disparity in WBL, but I'd like this to be a class comparable to the bard or alchemist in strength, through gear and consumables. I feel like it could be a versatile fun character to play.

Would this be too weak? OP? Any thoughts on WBL? Initially I was thinking something like a stipend equal to 5x WBL, but I haven't done the math quite yet. But will. All thoughts appreciated.

RAW Studied Strike clearly states the damage is a leveling 1d6. However, Amazing Inspiration allows the Investigator, to start, the ability to increase his dice to 1d8. Does this apply to the additional damage from Studied Strike? I would think yes, but it is certainly unclear from the rules thus far.

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It might be worthwhile to either have subthreads or, even better, a way of tagging a post about a certain PF class. That way if one wants to argue for nine hours about whether a Paladin taking a flower from a bed of public flowers to give to his niece would cause him to fall they can find it easily. It would also be nice to be able instantly see all threads about a particular class is alls I am thinking.