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I am playing a Mesmerist, and I have ran into a little rules problem involving effecting mindless creatures with enchantment spells and a spell that creates thoughts in the creature.

Psychic Inception on Bold Stare: "The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it’s under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn’t end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round." (Page 43 of Occult Adventure)

Sow Thought: (from Advanced Race Guide) is a 1st level spell that targets "One Creature." This is what it says, "You plant an idea, concept, or suspicion in the mind of the subject. The target genuinely believes that the idea is his own, but is not required to act upon it. If the idea is contrary to the target's normal thoughts (such as making a paladin think, 'I should murder my friends') the target may suspect mind-altering magic is at play."

You would have it say, "I (make yourself known) am your master, follow my commands." While the duration is permanent, I think it would still have a 50% chance on following my commands.

The real question is: do mindless creatures have any ideas at all?

I can say yes and no.
Yes because you basically insert the idea, which the creature reacts to it like a command.
No because the creature has no ideas.

Creatures created to be servants: constructs and undead, it is easy to see the creatures as having ideas to help execute commands. Mindless creatures, like oozes and vermin, aren't created to follow commands, but can follow commands and instructions as seen in archetypes (like hunter vermin archetype).

What would you guys think?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This spell looks like fun, but I am confused about two things:

Is the Distraction and poison DC are based off the creature or the Spell Level? While it does say to use the creature's DC (those are really low), there are spells that use Spell DC instead of the creature.

The Whip of Ants does 3d6 Damage plus poison and distraction. I looked at the Army Ant Swarm, and that didn't have any Poison attack on it. So, was it supposed to be Cling instead?

Is there a way to make the Whip bypass Magic DR from a spell? I was thinking maybe a spell like Magic Fang/Weapon, but it is a single weapon (which it would work)and also a swarm (which it wouldn't work).


#Have the Google blade be like google then. Have it mention ads for some shops or items. Example: 'enlarge person for 10gp less at Mark's Discount Alchemy.' Maybe have it give answers to creatures and people that might be more popular for a blade to give (like "do you mean Johnny the blacksmith?"). Mostly physical stats or abilites based off melee. It would suggest stabbing a earth elemental really hard because it has DR. Or, mention that rust monsters are fearsome beast that should be avoided at all times.

#In an second edition game, I had an intelligent magic dagger that would cast illusion spells to help me survive (I was new to the game then). I had alot of fun, and realized that it had seemingly unlimited illusion spells. So, i would convince it to play tricks on npcs and monsters.
Eventually the DM liked the idea, and had it start playing illusion tricks on us. In fact, we had alot of random monster encounters that were nothing but illusions. We had a few villians that kept escaping our capture, so we thought it was one of them. After our group started being paranoid and trying to disbelieve illusions at the beginning of every fight, the DM had the blade tell the group that it was causing the illusions because it didn't like being used like that. We did what it said, but we were still paranoid at times, thinking it was acting up again.


Bea Stoutroot is a gnome Summoner Synthesist (serpatine). She is a shocktrooper for the army, and favors a hydra form. She likes to get into the middle of fights, with multiple heads chewing enemies to death. Few can withstand her awesome multiple bite attacks. After battles, she gets bored and some of the heads argue and nip at each other, or tend to chew and fling dead bodies about like a toy.

She is given as an NPC that I control. Sometimes, I like her more then my main.


Lab_Rat wrote:
But it makes a nice point. Who needs all that STR. I think you could very easily be a synthesis summoner who spent evolutions in STR and then bumped your Cha. You have full BAB, a good Str, and a good Cha. You may not be the fighter when it comes to smacking things but your a spellcaster too. I always get the feeling when reading the synthesis threads that people forget that and just want to play a multi-armed eidolon.

I agree. I think of the synthesist as a beefier, more sturdier, more versitle, spellcasting eidolon. I find that the main selling point (and point of archetype?) of the Synthesist is the ability to create and play any monster you can think of (with points providing). Whether it be a hydra, troll, or babified Tarrasque.

I don't see a problem with giving Ability increase to Cha. Sure it helps spell DC's with the okay spell list that it is given, BUT you lose a lot of evolutions that enhance your tanking and coolness power of the archetype.


I have a '3 headed hydra' 5th level synthesist. I was thinking of future ideas as it grows, and ran into these problems:

1. Saves: Do you use the Summoner Base Saves or the Eidolon base saves? I couldn't find any information on that.

2. Swallow Whole Evolution: "..The amount of damage needed to cut free is equal to 1/10 the eidolon's total hit points." According to the rules, we are one creature. But, the evolution specifies eidolon.

3. Poison Evolution: Am I correct in assuming that I choose which head gains the poison bite attack per evolution point?

4. Breath Weapon Evolution: What action is the breath weapon (i assume standard, but nothing is mentioned)? Can i pay the extra points so that each head shoots out a breath at once, or is just 1 breath weapon per round?


What happens to elementals that get entangled and damaged in the Aqueous Orb spell?
Fire and earth elementals can't get in water
Air can't move in water
Water elementals doesn't sound like it would take damage or get entangled by it.

Just curious.


The charisma only effects Ki pool, not alot of other abilites. If you want more ki, get the feat to get more Ki.

I think pathfinder secretly wanted a class, with a main stat in Cha, to multiclass well with a bard. Players will always wonder if the bard npc is part ninja or not.


You can use the shield if it is the main weapon. It does require Shield prof. even if you take Heirloom weapon (because the feat is needed for other shield bashing feats).

With a light shield or buckler, you can use a wand in that hand. So, you can have your other hand free for casting spells.

As for effecient, probably not. You can get a better AC from the Shield spell, and that spell also blocks magic missles and helps on touch attacks. Plus, with the shield spell, you don't need to use feats for it. Once you get high enough, just having a wand of this is good.


I read it as the first attack MUST have a held weapon. The only way to get past that, is by wearing spiked guantlet (if using natural attacks theme).


While i assume one claw is holding the weapon, and one claw is casting the touch spell (normal touch attacks), that the bite would follow the normal rules. Since the normal rules use the chart for two weapon fighting (as if the character had TWF), then the secondary attacks would follow that.

**-2 to Weapon, Spell, and Secondary (bite)

But the Arcane Pool use of Enchanting Held weapons makes the Spell Combat not supposed to use natural attacks. Also, with further review, i noticed alot of powers based off held weapons. The only thing that wasn't based off held weapons were the spells like Beast Shape on the spell list (where you can't hold weapons).

I hope that Round 4 or final version will clarify this problem.


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What are the rules for using Spell Combat if the Magus has multiple natural attacks like; 2 claws (primary) and bite (secondary)?

#Currently playing a Round 3 version of Magus