Beswaur Blue Bottle's page

I just wrote a 3000+ word backstory for a new character...

By your choice or did some GM continually push you for more details until it became 3000+ words?

Long ago I can remember setting up to play an RPG named

Traveller

It had a very involved character generation system that involved creating a "background" for your PC. Creating a sort of Backstory...

I actually created PCs for this game system for several different Campaign kick-offs - but the games never materialized. It was a lot of fun generating PCs for it, though sometimes your PC would DIE, and you'd have to start the creation process all over again (it actually recommended that if you rolled poorly for starting stats that you enlist your PC in the Scout Corps, as that was more likely to kill off your PC before the game started - and if it didn't you were more likely to get big rewards!).

I think I vaguely remember trying to play that one time. I seem to recall us spending forever making characters. Then 2 of us suddenly realized we were dead before the game even started. We were all like "What the heck?!?"

Scattered response to some of the other things I've been seeing in this thread:

"Questionnaire"
I may not have explained this clearly enough. This was not a questionnaire that a single GM asked on particular PC submission. These are the types of questions I have gotten from various GM's who keep asking for more and more information on the back story of my PC's. Actually, if it had been a questionnaire at the beginning, I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. I would have known about it and it would have gone into my planning and thinking while working on the PC. Continually going back to the well for more irrelevant minutia over and over again can become annoying.

"We are storytellers."
Absolutely agree. I have no problem creating a story by my actions with the rest of the group. It is a blast, which is why I play the game. I find it very difficult, time consuming, and aggravating to invent, by myself, a whole complete history of meaningless details that have no effect on anything.

"It gives the GM a more complete picture of what developed your PC into what he is now."
I would argue that it does nothing of the sort. The PC build, personality, background, appearance, and decision making process have all already been developed. Those additional details were not part of it. So if I'm adding stuff now just because the GM keeps asking me to invent new details, that's all I'm doing. Inventing new details. They actually have nothing to do with what went into the PC's development or personality.

"If that's not your style, which it clearly isn't, then why play with these GM's?"
The wierd thing (to me) is that it doesn't seem to be their style in the game. Just in the recruitment phase. Some of them are recruiting for a replacement character and I can look at the progress so far. Some of the others, I can look at the other games they have run. I find GM's whose game style matches what I want out of a game. But so many of them have this huge hang-up in the character submission process of a massively detailed backstory.

I guess I feel like many people are getting too caught up in the story part of backstory. Maybe if people started using background there might be less of an issue. To me, the story is the part that happens after we begin playing the game. Not the part that never really happened, but that I have to make up to have happened before I made the character.

Ok, let me try to explain my point of view with an example.

There is a guy in my area that styles himself an amateur playwright. Within the last couple of weeks, we both tried to join a PbP game. He glanced at the intro in the recruitment thread ripped out a vanilla wizard build with very few details completed (he had not realized the reserved spot was already filled with a wizard). He didn't even use the correct ability score method. Then he starts typing and in 10 minutes he has a 5 page backstory (emphasis on story) complete with things like juvenile disfiguring disease. (I guess I'm exaggerating, it probably is a bit under 3 pages.) The GM commented that he really appreciated the time he spent on creating his character.
He did not put exceptional time and effort into his submission because, for him, that 5 pages is nearly zero effort. It doesn't demonstrate his dedication to the campaign. Again, he can rip off 10 of those submissions in an afternoon.
I will agree he has probably shown he is capable of more flowery descriptions of his characters actions and thoughts. But that is really all it shows.

I also tried to join a game. Unfortunately, not the same one. I wish we had both applied to the same one to really highlight the comparison. I read through the intro, campaign, some of the gameplay thread to get an idea of how the group is currently functioning. I checked through the current characters in the game. Decided their style was similar to my own and I could have fun playing in that game. Based on their characters, they are lacking a divine spell caster though it hasn't yet caused any real problems in play. However, based on the few combats they had had so far, they clearly have been having difficulty dealing with the absence of anyone that can stand toe-to-toe with the opposition.
So I built a very durable warpriest, focused more on the melee combat than the spell casting, healing, and other abilities. Picked a deity that was not identical to the other PC's, but is typically considered allied with or at least complimentary alignments with them. Also constructed a personality that would mesh pretty well with what they already had and yet cover some more missing characteristics. I made sure the project fit all the PC creation rules the GM had set forth.
Wrote out a few paragraphs detailing his personality, how he makes his decisions, and a bit of background. (I admit I did forget a physical description this time.) I made sure the project fit all the PC creation rules the GM had set forth. It included where he was from, why he traveled to here, his reason for getting involved, and his near term goals. Maybe 1/3 of a page.
The GM said I didn't give him enough to work with. Without a real backstory of his life before this, he couldn't get a feel for the character.

I could easily include a few links to previous PbP that showcases how I post in a game. I'm not sure how I could give examples of my contributions in an online session. I don't think Roll20 has a record option.
Other than looking through my posting history, I don't know how a prospective GM can tell if I am a match for his style of game. But I don't believe insistence on an extensive backstory contributes much of anything to accomplish this.

I don't think it really gives them better players though. It's just giving you the people that kinda really wanted to be an author. That doesn't mean they can roleplay well. It doesn't mean they understand the game mechanics. It doesn't mean they will reliably check the site and give meaningful posts.

I role play my characters very well. Probably even more so in PbP rather than F2F or online session gaming. Simply because I do have more time to think about what makes sense for this guy to do/say in this situation.

I try to interact with the other PC's (some don't cooperate with that, shrug). Not romantic relation ships. That is not something I need or want in my games. But friendships, competitions, one-ups-manship, tweaking over differing beliefs, cooperating to hide stuff from the guileless honest dude, etc... Yeah I try to make that happen.

I always try to make sure there is something more than "swing sword & dice", in my posts. Yet I also try to put out-of-character statements to clearly give the details of what buffs I still have up, what my actions are, put the text in spoilers where appropriate so the GM doesn't have to look everything up, etc...

I almost always manage to check the PbP game progress at least twice a day during the week. Usually more often. Baring a work crisis, I am nearly always ready for the online sessions well before start time.

Managing to come up with a full complete history of everything my character did, thought, or experienced before the adventure starts has nothing to do with any of that.

OK, now that I've got the initial eruption of bile out into the open, I can probably be more calm and give some more details.

This seems to be mostly an online thing in my experience. Either trying to get into PbP games or Roll20 online gaming sessions. I've only had a single F2F GM who wanted these extensive backstories for all the PC's.

I can understand if it some piece of information that will be used for the campaign. But then what he needs is that piece of information, not a story.

All of these are examples of questions I have been given to "Expand your backstory to give me a better idea of who you are." (I changed some of the details slightly so it won't be quite as clear who I am railing against if they happen to read this.) As far as I could tell, none of it had anything to do with what was intended to occur in the campaign.

I also understand plot hooks. I like it when players give me a few things to work with in their background. However I don't require it of everyone and I don't insist it be some detailed multi-paragraph adventure intro.

@Goblin_Priest
Just throwing out a name would never have been enough. They want details, narrative, exposition, etc...

@LordKailas
I have done some of the same rewards for something in the background when I am GM. Though not quite that extensive. I've given someone a 5' higher speed on his horse, a few combo alchemical items, a climbing kit, a couple uses of a cheap drug/poison - because it matched what they put down for their background.
I have a changed the name of a random NPC shopkeeper or contact to match the name given in a background.

Ahem...

an old man shuffles to the center of the courtyard and stands up on the ranting soapbox

I don't get this obsession with requiring an extensive detailed backstory for every PC.

Yes, the PC had to come from somewhere.
Yes, you want to make sure the PC will have a personality that can mesh with the others at the game table.
Yes, some idea of how the PC will behave, react, and be motivated can help the GM deal and maybe even other players interact.

I get that. All well and good. I will give a paragraph or three about where he (or she) comes from, what motivates him, his general attitudes, and maybe even his future plans. But guess what. I am not an acclaimed fantasy author. I will never be an author. I don't want to be an author. I won't be writing a multi-page autobiography for every character I put forth for consideration.

"Tell me what it was like being a human in a mostly gnome village? Give me some details." I don't know. I've never been in such a situation. I don't care. What does it matter?

"Who was your PC's first love?" Why does it matter? Who cares? Yes, I had a crush on some girl in middle school. Guess what? Her name and what she was like has had zero impact on anything after I got out of middle school.

"How many siblings did you have and how did they get along with your parents?" Now you're asking for expanded backstory on other people you had me add to my expanded backstory?!? WTF! If I wanted to invent a detailed clan history, I would have done so.

"Give me details on his life before he became a magus." Well he has a rank in profession fisherman. So I  guess it is reasonable to assume he was a fisherman. But you know what? No, I have really given no thought to what the everyday life of a Renaissance fisherman is like. Why do you want to know this?!?

"What other adventures and exploits has he accomplished?" He is a 17 year old, zero experience, 1st level character. He hasn't yet slain any dragons or rescued any damsels in distress.

"What side is he taking on the moral conflict between Desna and Erastil?" What conflict? He's a magus and has Nethys in the deity slot. I, as a player, have heard of no such conflict. He, as a character that worships a different deity, probably would give a rat's behind. Is it something you happened to see mentioned in some other source book? Why would you assume I know about it and that my character would have to take a side?

And heaven forbid that something in all that invented BS should happen to not agree 100% with something cannon in one of the umpteen source books, modules, AP's, scenerios, or 3rd party books about Golarion that the GM has read and I have not.

Aargh!

Again, I will give a paragraph or three about where he comes from, what motivates him, his general attitudes, and probably his future plans (if he has any). But why would you expect or even want me to put all that useless/meaningless effort into a PC that you, as like as not, are going to decide not to allow in your game?

The inclusion or lack of a small novel detailing every nuance of the PC's history and mental meanderings has nothing to do with how I play the PC and whether or not he has a personality.

the once proud figure, his shoulders slumped, steps off the ranting soapbox to allow someone else a turn

GM, from reading the guide it says we are going from Brevoy into a portion of the Stolen Lands (sorta within the River Kingdoms) to re-claim land and make a city state friendly to Brevoy. The area we are going into is the Greenbelt (mostly forested) rather than the mountainous or swampy portions.
- You said you are changing things. Are you changing any of that?
- Are you ok with iguanadon as an animal companion?
- Are you ok with flying animal companions or mounts (some GM's hate them)?
If you can't tell, I'm planning on submitting a hunter.

ability 1: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 1, 4) = 14
ability 2: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 4, 5) = 17
ability 3: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6, 4) = 17
ability 4: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 4, 6) = 19
ability 5: 4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 5) = 15
ability 6: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6, 4) = 17
That gives 16, 16, 16, 15, 13, 13.
I can work with that.

Do any of the animal companions have natural attacks with a higher crit threat range and/or a higher crit multiplier?

I was considering using butterfly sting partnering with my animal companion.

According to the Inner Sea world guide:

Level 1 to 5, is basically common or called standard. Most people with only npc classes are in that range.

Level 6 to 10, Powerful or exceptional individuals , most of the nations shakers and movers.

11 to 15, are rare, leaders or specially trained troops only can find a handful of them in most nations.

16+ exceptionally rare.
...

Aha! That is good news. Most of the people I have talked to act like nearly everyone is 1st level.

A lot depends on what the average person could do, if anything, to gain XPs. If XPs are earned by surviving life or death battles, then most people would be 1st level regardless of age and non-combat experience.

Then how do they get better at something.The journeyman carpenter who has just started making chairs at the beginning of his profession vs. the master carpenter that makes a formal dining room set for the duke in his later years?

This is a group project. We are trying to figure out how to do a more detailed population. Since a couple of the players are really trying to get the locals involved in solving problems and improving the overall quality of life in the area.

We have Jim-Bob the brand new farmer who decides, since he is the third son and won't inherit his father's farm, to start a new radish farm.
Commoner level 1.
He could take the feat Skill Focus: Farmer. (If human, endurance seems logical for the extra feat for a sunrise to sunset farmer.)
Lets assume a +1 from ability score.
A +3 from class skill.
Can only have 1 rank.
So for farming, he has a +8 pretty respectable actually.

Now a few years later, he obviously knows what he is doing a lot better. His farm is at least a marginally successful going enterprise. By the game system the only thing you can do for him is give him another level.
Commoner 2.
Can only have 2 ranks in the skill.
He now has a +9 in farming. Not much difference, but maybe he can also put a rank in appraise or diplomacy to do a better job of selling his radishes. (Though only if he didn't drop his intelligence.)

Then he becomes a well known and respected radish farmer. His farm should be doing pretty well by now. He has years of trial-and-error and school-of-hard-knocks learning. By the game system the only thing you can do for him is give him another level.
Commoner 3.
Can only have 3 ranks in the skill.
Could take the feat Prodigy for another +2 to farmer and appraise/diplomacy.
Let's say middle age gives him another ability +1.
No he has a +14 to farmer. Pretty huge jump.

I really don't have too much problem with the above. However, that means you have a heck of a lot of 2nd and quite a few 3rd level folks in every single village. Yet everyone assumes that almost everyone is a 1st level commoner.
That doesn't make sense if people learn and grow better in their profession over the course of their lives.

Pretty similar with craftsmen or other professional type people. Though you could say they are experts with ranks in more skills that augment their profession.

It's even worse with military type professions.
Millitia
City Watch
City Guard
Professional Soldiers
Veteran Troops
Elite Troops
NCO's and Officers for the above
That's not even considering the feats needed to have the capabilities historically expected for RL military units that actually existed.
You are going to end up with units of warriors at level 5+ which is way beyond what anyone expects.

Not sure what to do about some of these issues of learning to be better at how you choose to make your non-adventuring living. Any ideas or suggestions?

I had fun and hope you did to.

I sometimes got confused on what descriptions were meant for which rooms. But that often happens in PbP, so no worries.
The rat thing was a bit wierd. Not sure I would have ever caught on to that. But that isn't all bad either.

Thanks for running, hope to see you around again some time.

{sigh} Be at peace, finally.
Beswaur pours the vial of holy water over the tiny skeleton.
HW ranged touch attack: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (20) + 4 = 24
HW crit confirm: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21
JW crit damage: 2d8 ⇒ (6, 4) = 10
Finally some decent rolls

Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, we will go open the other chests. If they aren't too bulky or heavy, we might just as well haul them out here before opening them.
.
Some information, but not enough. Let's check those 2 remaining chests. If we don't learn something clear cut, maybe we should just burn the whole place to the foundations.

I will freely admit, I don't watch/read horror stories and am not that great at figuring out mysteries anyhow. So I'm afraid I will be of limited help in figuring out what to do next in order to put the spirits to rest.

I would be tempted to say just burn the building completely to the ground and bury the ashes with holy water. But I know of at least a couple times when I've been told doing something like that basically makes the ghosts permanent because then you can't ever complete X spiritual rights to lay the spirits.

Let's check all for all the names on the grave markers. When arrived, any other notes, and when died. Also if the time or amounts seem odd in comparison to the rest of the journal.

Let's take the stuff into the sunlight and out of this creepy place so we can all look over the papers in relative peace.

I'd suggest quickly grabbing all the papers. If we have to pull back, the info could be valuable.

Watch my back and I will open the chests.
.
Beswaur pulls the adamantine wire saw from his packs, carefully examines the chests, then gets to work.
perception, take 20: 20 + 3 = 23
.
Even if I don't see any traps, I will try to saw off the hinge pin coil rather than the lock. Most traps probably don't blow out the back of the box. Though if it is a magic trap that I missed, I'm probably screwed.

Apologies, was very sick the past few days.

The multitude of rats could have easily consumed them, but then I would expect to still see bone fragments. {shrug} Let's check the remainder of the upstairs.

checking, hmm...
Detect Alignment then Detect Magic counter clockwise around the room starting at the door.
spellcraft if needed: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (8) + 4 = 12

I thought you tried acid and holy water? ...

Ha! You're right. I did use acid the first time. Memory goes... somthing

I already tried fire, it didn't seem to have any effect. continues withdrawing.

It isn't much but even these minor bites will kill us eventually. We aren't improving things. Let's retreat.
withdraw action

No, I don't believe this!
Beswaur empties a vial of holy water on the apparent swarm of rats.
I don't know if there shoult be an attack roll since they are all over us, but I will roll an attack and damage in case.
touch attack: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (14) + 4 = 18 if hits holy damage: 1d8 ⇒ 6

Beswaur will wait until Markus is also ready, then throw a vial at a rat.
Acid to hit one and get as many as possible of the rest with the splash for a single point of damage
ranged touch: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (7) + 4 = 11, if hits acid damage: 1d6 ⇒ 1
If misses random center of splash: 1d8 ⇒ 3

Aha, I miss-remembered that.
.
Let us finish the inside first, since we are here. Beswaur opens the closest unopened doors on the ground floor.

Hmm... We may need to check and be sure the children area actually buried in the graves.

Now that everywhere has had a cursory glance, I would suggest we thoroughly search every room. Starting at the bottom and working our way up. We don't want to chance missing something and this still be a threat to the locals.
.
Take 20 perception in every spot indoors. For Beswaur that is a 23 total.

Sorry guys. Something just came up. I am unlikely to be able to post until Saturday late morning. Feel free to bot me.

Beswaur throws a different bottle at the oozing form.
ranged touch liquid ice: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (8) + 4 = 12, if hits cold damage: 1d6 ⇒ 6

Anyone know about that slimy thing? I'm just going to be trying stuff over here.
Beswaur drops the knife, again pulls out one of his bottle, and opens it while pointing the top at the moving pile of slime.
bottled lightning electricity damage +1 pt sonic: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4
Beswaur will step to the side if necessary to not hit his allies with the lighting. Ooze gets a reflex save DC=15 to avoid the electricity damage.

Since his allies rushed past into melee, Beswaur puts the flasks away and readies his blade to charge into the fray.

I can't see the map right now, but iirc there was a stairway down to the basement right next to the stairs up to the second floor.
.
Hmm... Interesting...
Beswaur moves over to the top of the basement stairs and readies a couple of flasks in his hands.

Alright guys, let's head back in to check it out some more. I think we should do a quick look at the areas we haven't seen. Then if there are not threats, we can carefully investigate top to bottom. Agreed?

Beswaur is down by 5 str. But he is also convinced of his own capability to succeed. So he is always willing to keep going if others are.

Beswaur also pours a vial of holy water on the ashes while burying them.

I was thinking use my detect alignment (or Mathais') to check the graveyard for any taint of evil. If nothing, bury them there.
If there is, we should probably take them to the village graveyard. In that case, we probably ought to also consider moving the current residents.
Also, knowledge check to see if any of that seems like a good idea.
knowledge religion: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (9) + 4 = 13

No. I had enough healing to get everyone back up to full then we waited a night to prep spells.

Agreed. Let's gather what we can of the ghosts remains and bury them with all due ceremony,

Beswaur heads back to the burned bedroom.

Beswaur again attempts to use the wand.
touch attack: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (16) + 2 = 18, if hits CLW: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 1 = 7 will save for half.

In his frustration over the continual misses and his weakened condition, Beswaur drops the bow and uses his wand.
touch attack: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 2 = 11, if hits CLW: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (5) + 1 = 6 will save for half.
.
Emergencies at work, bot me if needed.

That just gives me a -2 to hit but it won't be 1/2 damage
.
Beswaur steps back and takes a shot at the ghostly form.
bow attack: 1d20 + 4 - 2 ⇒ (6) + 4 - 2 = 8, if hits bow damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6
Well carp! It doesn't matter what I'm using if I keep rolling like that.

Can't crit incorporeals =(
.
Marcus, if you aren't going to use your bow with the Ghost Salt arrows, can we say I was planning to use it?

I won't take the AoO. I'd rather let it move away so we can concentrate on the one. As soon we attack, the spell will be gone. So it moves away for a round. Then I would assume it comes back for a round after we attack. That should give us 2 rounds to concentrate on this one.

Nemôžeš ma vidieť! Then he readies his weapon.
hide from undead, save DC=13, swift action activate sacred weapon

Saw it, don't know what it means. Mayhap after we deal with these others we should properly bury those ashes.

Beswaur mutters, over there guys pointing to the north west.
.
I don't want to cast the hide from undead before we see them in the open. If they don't know we are there, they might just keep hiding inside a wall or something. As soon as I see them out in the open, I will cast hide from undead